McCain Rally Team Disrespects The Flag
Americablog has an interesting item up today. The photo (reproduced below) is pretty much the entire story. This photo was taken after a McCain rally:
The local Missouri television station that broke the story actually has video, if you're interested.
Now, imagine what the right wing (and the media, for that matter) would be screaming if that had happened at an Obama rally.
Now, to give McCain credit, his campaign immediately released a statement saying pretty much what it had to: "We find the action, done by an outside vendor separate from the campaign, very troubling and have followed up with the vendor to express our displeasure. We take flag protocol very seriously and we will continue working to ensure our flag is given the proper respect."
But still, what would have been said if this was at an Obama rally? I bet this doesn't even make the national news tonight. And that is one honking big double standard.
[Sorry for the short post today, tomorrow I'll make up for it with the weekly charts.]
-- Chris Weigant
If this had happened after an Obama rally - at this disintegrating stage of the game for the McCain campaign - then I shudder to think what would have happened next.
As for whether or not it would have made the national news...if it would have, you can bet the farm - even if it's in Iowa - that it would have been incompetently and ineptly covered...to the core. And, that's all I have to say about that.
Not every blog has to be a marathon event, Chris.
This flag nonsense makes me mad as hell. Which candidate wore the flag pin to every debate? And can anyone find me a single damn flag anywhere on the "Straight Talk Express" bus? It's pure hooey from people so determined to get upset about something that they'll even make it up.
I am reminded of how thousands of American Flags were found in the dumpster after the Democrat Convention..
But I agree. The outcry against the Obama campaign would have been horrendous. Which is AS IT SHOULD be.
But you can't blame the McCain campaign for what does and doesn't make the news. Just as you can't blame the Obama campaign for what the news media does or doesn't report on..
Michale.....
Michale, that DNC flag story was debunked a long time ago. Do you just lend credence to every half-witted attack line and etch them in stone to the exclusion of all contrary evidence? What are you DOING here?
Osborne Ink - I totally agree with you. What I try to do 99% of the time is skip past his "thoughts" and instead read posts from sentient people like yourself and Elizabeth Miller.
@Ink
Of course, you can PROVE that, right?? :D
@kevinem2
I know you are kind of new around here, but personal, immature and childish attacks really aren't welcome around here...
Michale.....
Michale,
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/06/thrown-away-flags-story-f_n_124499.html
I've been asking myself a question lately. The question is, why is it ok for conservatives to attack liberals, but somehow it doesn't seem ok for liberals to attack conservatives.
Michale, you brought this to my attention when you said this is what Republicans do, this is who they are. I'm paraphrasing here, but think I'm summing up pretty accurately. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm not going to go anywhere so far as to say it's ok for either side, but more and more I'm coming to think of this as an interesting question.
I think the conservative strategy is to divide and focus on an "other." Attack anyone from a position of strength and try to get others to go along with you. They divide, rather than unite. And they use enemies to bolster their position.
The progressive strategy is more inclusive and considers multiple viewpoints and tries to build coalitions.
The interesting thing is that when progessives attack back, they fall off of their game. They, in fact, adopt a conservative strategy.
One of the things I like best about Obama is that he always remembers his game. He sticks to a more progressive strategy of building inclusion and reaching out across the aisle. And he does it in a way that is never weak.
Colin Powell does this as well. He may very well have sunk the McCain campaign with the most concise and low-key (yet blistering) critique I've seen.
I'm still working out this thought so pardon the post if it appears half baked, but I've been wondering for a while why it doesn't seem to work when progressives adopt similar tactics as conservatives. Of course, I realize there could be many reasons for this, but I think one of the key ones might be that deep down we really believe in valuing other viewpoints.
Ann Coulter wrote that if you can make a liberal angry, you win. This was pretty much her entire strategy in How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must). And no, I didn't pay for the book, but I think it helps to understand the tactics being deployed against you.
Cheers
David
Michale - Please enlighten me on how I could possibly PROVE you have the IQ of a cucumber? (My apologies to all the innocent vegetable family out there who may have evolved the ability to surf the net and the good taste to find Mr. Weigant's site).
Hey, Kevin!
May I say that Michale is a rather decent and pleasant fellow, once you get to know him. So, be nice...'cause we're all among friends here...
Carry on...
@INK
Your "proof" comes from Huffington Post!?? :D Gee, could you find something a LITTLE more biased? How about DailyKos?? :D
But, what the hell.. I read that story about how the flags were taken "without permission"..
If this is true, that that would be theft. At, even at a minuscule "worth" of $0.50 per flag, that would be a value of over 6 THOUSAND dollars which would make such a theft a First Degree Felony..
And yet, the "theft" was not reported to authorities.
Ergo, the "Theft" story is a lie...
@David
Michale, you brought this to my attention when you said this is what Republicans do, this is who they are. I'm paraphrasing here, but think I'm summing up pretty accurately. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
In essence you are correct, but it sounds too bigoted so I must clarify.
What I mean to say that, for the most part, the hysterical Right has the well deserved reputation of being underhanded, aggressive and the vicious smear attack is a hallmark of the hysterical Right.
In other words, it makes no sense for us to "debate" whether the hysterical Right is vicious, perverse and bigoted, because it would be the shortest debate in history:
Moderator: "Is the hysterical Right perverse and bigoted?"
David: "Yes"
Michale: "I agree"
Moderator:"Good night"
The rest of your post is nearly verbatim what I have been saying for months. Sorry if that makes you upset. :D
"Stuart, don't agree with me. You just make me doubty myself"
-Mike Flaherty, SPIN CITY
I'm still working out this thought so pardon the post if it appears half baked, but I've been wondering for a while why it doesn't seem to work when progressives adopt similar tactics as conservatives.
It's simple..
Liberals, by their very nature, are an INCLUSIVE bunch. They respect other people's ideals and opinions, even if they don't agree with them.
That is why I am always railing against these alleged "Liberals" that permeate political blogs and forums. They call themselves "liberals" and like to think of themselves as such, but they are simply a pale imitation of the Republicans they castigate. One only has to read from some people here in this very forum to know what I am talking about. Take kevinem2's post above. A true liberal would NEVER insult someone in the manner that he did. Solely on the basis of a difference of opinion.
In short, the answer to your question is simple.. A liberal ceases to BE a liberal when he or she starts attacking someone based on their ideals or opinions..
Of course, I realize there could be many reasons for this, but I think one of the key ones might be that deep down we really believe in valuing other viewpoints.
Exactly...
I have posted this on many occasions.. The greatest strength of the Democratic Party in general and Liberals in particular is that they are INCLUSIVE. It's also their greatest weakness.
The strength lies in the ability to open themselves up to new ideas and new ways of doing things. The weakness comes in whereas they cannot function as a group. They have all these little fiefdoms, each one as equal as the other and subservient to none. And, because the very foundation of the Democratic Party is to respect ALL points of view, Dems find it hard, as a Party, to subjugate other perspectives to serve the greater good..
For those who know their Trek Lore, think of Republicans as the Borg and Democrats are the "Feeders of Vaal".
The Borg has the group mindset that is necessary to function as a whole and accomplish great things. But they quash individuality and don't allow for freedom of choice.
The Feeders Of Vaal have the compassion and altruism of a great people but they are stagnate and are not growing. They are incapable of making decisions for the betterment of the group because each individual has their OWN ideas on what that betterment should be.
Or to take ANOTHER Trek example (There ain't nothing worth learning that you can't learn from Star Trek! :D) it's like when Kirk was separated into a "good" and "evil" version.
The GOOD side of Kirk had the compassion and morality and the EVIL side of Kirk had the strength and aggression. But BOTH are needed to make James T Kirk the man he is...
So it is with this country. Democrats have the compassion and morality and Republicans have the strength and aggression. But BOTH are needed to make this country function.
That is why we run into trouble when we have TOO MUCH of one or the other. The last 8 years has been TOO much Republicans. And you see the mess we're in. The next 8 years is (probably) going to be TOO much Democrats. And it's going to get much worse because of that..
But to answer your question succinctly, David. It is my personal opinion that Liberals should not try to act like Republicans. As you point out, they do it badly and, when they do, they cease being liberals.
Despite what they hysterical Right claims, there is nothing wrong with being a liberal. Just as, despite what the hysterical Left claims, there is nothing wrong with being a Republican..
Where the two run into trouble is when they let their respective ideology override their common sense. When they foster the "us" and "them" mentality at the exclusion of (what should be) the overriding thought..
We are ALL Americans and we must hang together or we will surely hang separately..
Sorry to really run on a tangent here. Sometimes my fingers and my mind just connect and go about their merry way..
Michale.....
@kevinem2
Michale - Please enlighten me on how I could possibly PROVE you have the IQ of a cucumber?
Simple..
A person with the IQ of a cucumber couldn't type this response to you saying how utterly ridiculous it is to accuse someone of having the IQ of a cucumber.
However, since you asked....
I am a veteran of two branches of the US Armed Forces. USAF and US Army. I was an MI Ell Tee during Desert Storm and had been an LEO and an FSO for the better part of a quarter of a century. I have been a military and intelligence liaison to about a dozen different countries spanning the globe.
Now, I axe you.. Honestly.
Could someone with the IQ of a cucumber accomplish all that?? :D
I am not your "enemy"... If you can keep that in mind when we discuss things, said discussions will be a LOT more enjoyable for all...
Michale.....
It seems that my "Star Trek" rant was more apropos than even I realized. :D
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-ragogna/star-trek-11-the-obama-fa_b_137096.html
Michale.....
I echo your thoughts. Colin Powell does too:
"I come to the conclusion that because of his ability to inspire, because of the inclusive nature of his campaign, because he is reaching out all across America, because of who he is and his rhetorical abilities -- and we have to take that into account -- as well as his substance -- he has both style and substance -- he has met the standard of being a successful president, being an exceptional president." Colin Powell
Especially like how you phrased it as we are all Americans. I don't think of myself as a liberal. I may have some views that are liberal and others that are conservative. I think most people are this way.
It's a Republican strategy to brand people and put them into buckets. And hopefully it's a strategy that's past it's best days.
- David
akadjian -
Interesting question. My thoughts are close to Michale's on this one (gasp!). Liberals, I think, are more thoughtful in general. They truly try to see different sides of an issue, although when they make their minds up they can be just as ideological as conservatives. But when presented with a new concept, I think they're more likely to think about it, and make their minds up. Conservatives (or at least Republicans today) are much more authority-based. They are more comfortable having someone tell them what conservative orthodoxy is, and then believing that.
Perhaps I'm oversimplifying, and I'm probably biased as well, but that's the way I see it. As Michale pointed out, it is both a strength and a weakness. Thoughtful versus decisive doesn't always win elections. And it leads to the constant "herding cats" nature of the Democratic Party.
kevinem2 -
Cucumbers have IQs? Who knew!
Michale -
Well, I have to say that the women feeders of Vaal were way hot. But (shudder) David Soul was the lead guy. I think he even (double-shudder) sings in that episode. Scary!
And while reading that article you linked to, a thought popped into my fevered brain: wouldn't Obama make a dandy Vulcan?
akadjian -
I have to say that Colin Powell's MTP appearance has to be the most intelligent summary of the presidential race I've heard yet. It's really impressive.
-CW
I apologize to Michale. I've been feeling crappy about my needless sarcasm since about one minute after I posted it. I hope I know better in the future. Best wishes to everyone, and hopefully just 12 more days till the adults retake control of your government.
@kevinem2
No apologies necessary.. I have had those days as well and I know that I come across as an allogant plick sometimes.. OK OK most times... If we ever get into discussions that DON'T involve National Security, Self Defense, Law Enforcement or Human Caused Global Warming (Yet The Planet Is Cooling) then I would wager that we would agree on just about everything...
It's all good. No harm, no foul...
@David
Especially like how you phrased it as we are all Americans.
Wish I could take credit for it, but I believe it was Ben Franklin who said it first.. Or was it John Adams???
@CW
My thoughts are close to Michale's on this one (gasp!).
Oh now THAT's gonna come back and bite ya on the arse!! :D
Well, I have to say that the women feeders of Vaal were way hot. But (shudder) David Soul was the lead guy. I think he even (double-shudder) sings in that episode. Scary!
Oh gods, why did you remind me!!!! Copious amounts of beer are going to be needed to erase the mental picture...
And while reading that article you linked to, a thought popped into my fevered brain: wouldn't Obama make a dandy Vulcan?
Maybe a Sybok.... But that geeky Alfred E Neuman grin of his would kill any chance of him being a logical Vulcan... :D
For those of you who are interested, check out pics of Zachary Quinto (Sylar on HEROES) and Leonard Nimoy (as the TOS Spock) side by side.. The resemblance is simply uncanny...
Michale.....
Jeez, I'm agreeing with Michale, people are apologizing for bad behavior, man, I love this blog 'cause I just never know what to expect from you guys!
OK, you're right, Michale, Obama's grin disqualifies him, but he reminds me a lot of the Voyager Vulcan (forget his name, T'something...).
And if I'm not mistaken, David Soul spent the whole episode shirtless. OK, I'll stop now. But I still have to say, those Vaal priestesses were some of the hottest extras they ever had... and that's saying a lot, as it also includes all of Kirk's girlfriends (which are legion).
Heh heh. OK, really... I'll stop now.
-CW
And if I'm not mistaken, David Soul spent the whole episode shirtless.
I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.
You want a REALLY good laugh, though? Watch the Starsky & Hutch remake staring Ben Stiller & Owen Wilson. It's hilarious...
as it also includes all of Kirk's girlfriends (which are legion)....
AND green... :D
Michale.....