The Search For Meaning
The search for meaning in the recent tragic shooting spree in Arizona continues apace. The suspect isn't saying anything, and the police aren't saying anything -- which is wholly unacceptable to the American media (and to a large part of the American public). We have a deep-seated need to attach meaning -- any meaning -- when faced with what sometimes turns out to be nothing more than aberrational and irrational behavior. We all want what Polonius was looking for, it seems:
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
-- Hamlet
Now, I realize this quote isn't all that relevant, because of what was really going on in the play (Hamlet was indeed just pretending "madness" -- the modern term would be "insanity" -- and he did have an ulterior motive for his "mad" rambling dialogue; in other words, Polonius was right). But it's worth remembering now because of the frenzy of people both in the public sphere and in private conversations who are desperately grasping for some sort of "reason why" the tragedy happened. Closely related is the yearning for comfort going forward; or, to put it another way, the need many have to declare that "this should have been prevented before it happened."
Both of these urges run deep. It's part of the human condition to try to fit things into a rational framework in our minds, and to reassure ourselves that if we only had done things a little differently, we could have avoided this tragedy. The problem is, neither one of these is any sort of universal truth. Sometimes craziness happens for no reason other than mental imbalance, and sometimes it happens explosively with little warning.
It's hard to accept, but short of immediately locking every person in America up in rubber rooms who is exhibiting even remotely bizarre behavior, it's not going to change any time soon. Since it would be an enormously expensive thing to do, and since it would be such a massive undertaking, I think I can say with confidence that it isn't going to happen in my lifetime.
It didn't take long for this blame game to start. The blame for the Arizona shooting should be placed on (take your pick, these are the ones I've heard so far): violent political discourse and imagery from the Right; violent political discourse and imagery from the Left; the culture of violent political discourse in this country (in general); the Tea Party; Sarah Palin; Sharron Angle; the community college where the shooter was kicked out for being mentally unbalanced; the congresswoman for not providing better security for the event; the explosiveness of the immigration debate in Arizona; Arizona gun laws; national gun laws (the lack thereof); permissive concealed-carry laws; the congresswoman not walking around armed herself (seriously, I've heard this theory); the town hall meetings in the summer of 2009; the shooter's parents; the shooter's friends and/or classmates for not having him locked up; the shooter's favorite books (Adolf Hitler, communism, Ayn Rand, etc.); Glock; extended handgun magazines; marijuana; legal (over-the-counter) hallucinogens; violent movies; violent-themed music; lack of community involvement; the mental health system; budget cuts in the mental health system; the recently-passed health reform legislation; repealing the recently-passed health reform legislation; the congresswoman herself; online social networking; white supremacists; and the gold standard. I've probably even missed a few in that extensive list, which says something in and of itself.
This relentless search for meaning (or even a scapegoat, on some level) is a mass defensive measure, by both the media and the rest of us. The media, of course, is looking for "a story." They want "the storyline" of the shooter, in easily-digestible soundbites to present to their viewers and readers. Most of the public just want to reassure themselves that "it can't happen here, in our neighborhood."
But the sad truth is that it can. There is no "safe place" from this sort of thing. I've lived next door to a man who wound up shooting his whole family and himself (it didn't make the national news, so don't even bother searching for it). I never spoke to the guy -- he was only "next door" through a back fence and didn't live on the street I was living on at the time. But if he had lived to the side of me, I probably would have said "hello" to him while taking out the garbage or in the course of other neighborly life. And maybe I would have been one of those people on the news saying "Well, he was pretty quiet, kept to himself" afterwards, who knows?
I don't have any great insight to what happened in Tucson. I have no answers to the big
"Why?" question. But my point here is that nobody may have these answers. The shooting suspect has said only one word that has been reported in public since the shooting -- answering "Yes" during his arraignment. But even if he had been talking directly to reporters from his jail cell, and trying to explain why he did what he did, we still may not be any closer to a real answer as to why this happened.
There's been a lot of axe-grinding politics since the tragedy. Both from the usual Left/Right divide (both sides have been spinning hard since immediately after the news broke), and from people championing a certain issue or position on various aspects of the case. The sad truth is that none of them may have any sort of definitive answers.
Sometimes the only person who can see the "method to the madness" is the madman himself. And when the underlying "method" is nothing more than more madness, then there is no method at all -- just sheer madness. It may be hard for the rest of us to accept, but sometimes the question "Why?" must remain unanswered.
-- Chris Weigant
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
why does our society spawn more violent deaths than most other developed countries? you're right that we try to throw out a thousand scapegoats without coming any closer to explaining the problem, much less solving it. i think part of it is economic and part is social. we seem to have developed a culture of excessive competition, where the winners lord it over the losers and the losers lose all hope. i think when people feel like society has abandoned them and they have nothing left to lose, their own lives and the lives of others cease to seem as valuable.
You're wandering into what used to be called "Existential" angst, a philosophical attempt to come to terms [after World War II] as the revelations came out of mass, nay, massive murder occurring in the concentration camps of a country with the most highly respected University system in the world, All that intelligence turned to the bureaucratic dilemma of how to murder 5, 6, or more million people as efficiently as possible, using the most advanced technological and bureaucratic systems available.
The "Problem of Evil's" existence has never been "explained" any more coherently than you have today. There is value in honestly framing the question though, and you offered a well-written
and thought=provoking catalyst for all of us to think, really think about it. Instead of generating "easy" formulas. . . Thanks.
HawkOwl -
Well, if we're going to address existential angst, I have to tie it in to our previous conversation:
"...and his ghost... may be heard...
...as you pass by that billibong..."
-CW
At the very least, I think we can all agree on one thing..
The Tucson shooting has absolutely NOTHING to do with Palin, Limbaugh or any alleged hate-mongering from the Right.
According to reports, this Loughner's hatred of Giffords stems from an incident in 2007.. No one, outside of Alaska, had even HEARD Of Palin at the time..
As far as the much-ballyhooed "target map" that Palin used in the 2010 elections. Hysterical Bloggers on the Left have blamed that for Loughner's rampage..
Interestingly enough, it looks a LOT less sinister than the one the DNC used in the 2004 campaign
http://www.verumserum.com/media/2010/03/DLC-Targeting-map.gif
Even more interesting, Loughner was a Kerry supporter in that election..
This guy has Left Wing scumbag written all over him and yet the Hysterical Left is trying to blame the Right..
It's completely and utterly pathetic how bloggers like Cesca et al are trying to profit from this heinous crime..
One hysterical blogger claimed that the Left "has no Beck"...
What those bloggers don't realize is that they ARE the Becks of the Left...
Your commentary is dead on, CW.. Sometimes people do very bad things and the reasons why will never be known..
But it's clear that vitriolic political nastiness had little, if anything, to do with the Tucson shooting.
I only wish those on the Hysterical Left would get SOME semblance of a clue.. But, I guess that if they DID get a clue then they would no longer be hysterical, eh... {{{siiiggghhhh}}}
Michale.....
By the way, I would like to nominate this Sheriff Dupnick as your Most Disappointing Democrat Of The Week.
This guy is supposed to just give out the facts of the case in a dispassionate and non-emotional manner.
He is NOT supposed to ad-lib to a political firestorm that has absolutely NOTHING to do with his job..
This guy is a piss-poor cop..
And that's about the gravest and lowest claim I could make about anyone..
Michale.....
There can be both "a reason" and "no reason". The individual perpetrator can be nuts for his (it seems as though homicidal nuts are almost always male, although that may be an artifact of media and culture) own reasons, but the particular form of his response can still be influenced by thousands of things he's seen and heard. Copycat criminals obviously are insane before the crimes they copy, but just as obviously they do copy.
The RNC talking point about the DNC 04 map is complete BS, though. The Palin map targets individuals with gun-sight crosshairs, and the DNC map targets states with generic concentric circles that could just as well be dart-board targets.
The RNC talking point about the DNC 04 map is complete BS, though. The Palin map targets individuals with gun-sight crosshairs, and the DNC map targets states with generic concentric circles that could just as well be dart-board targets.
Oh com'on dsws..
That's a nit pick that is really not even worth it...
First off, Palin's map targeted DISTRICTS, not people... The DNC map targeted STATES..
"A difference which makes no difference IS no difference..."
Commander Spock, MY ENEMY MY ALLY
As far as the difference in the types of target icons.. One can easily say that Palin's icon is nothing more than a surveyors mark..
However, to nip THAT little nit in the bud....
http://planetmoron.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451c1dc69e20147e169ac3e970b-popup
There's the DCCC map from last year.. This map sports gun-target style bulls-eyes and specifically mentions targeting specific Republicans **BY NAME**... In other words, Democrats targeted PEOPLE....
I don't even have to bother mentioning the Dem Rep who said that FL Gov Scott should be thrown up against a wall and shot.. This same Dem Rep is castigating the Right for "lack of civility".. Sheeya right...
If someone wants to blame vitriolic political attacks for the tragedy, that's fine. It's a totally moronic claim without a SHRED, an IOTA of evidence, but by all means, make the claim..
But to point the finger at one Party over another is pure and unadulterated political bigotry..
I know that, with one or two exceptions, those of us here at CW.COM are above that sort of thing..
It's also very telling back when James J. Lee took hostages at the Discovery, no one on the Right screamed about Al Gore fostering, promoting or inciting ecological terrorism...
"Acts of monstrous criminality stand on their own. They begin and end with the criminals who commit them"
-Sarah Palin
Truer words were never spoken...
Michale....
and the DNC map targets states with generic concentric circles that could just as well be dart-board targets.
Actually, I think that the icons are more of an Archery target than a dart board..
Hence, the only logical conclusion is that Dems think it's perfectly OK to target people with weapons, as long as the weapon is a bow and arrow... :D
Michale.....
This just keeps getting worse and worse for the Hysterical Left..
Another person who knew Laughren has come forward..
"He did not watch TV. He disliked the news. He didn’t listen to political radio. He didn’t take sides. He wasn’t on the left. He wasn’t on the right."
Is there ANY evidence of a connection between Laughren and Palin?
No there is not..
Is there ANY evidence that Laughren even SAW Palin's "bulls eye" map??
No there is not..
Is there ANY evidence of a connection between Laughren and Limbaugh???
No there is not..
Is there ANY evidence that Laughren even LISTENED to Limbaugh??
No there is not..
Is there any evidence that Laughren did NOT listen to Limbaugh??
Yes there is...
"These are the facts of the case. And they are undisputed."
-Captain Jack Ross, A FEW GOOD MEN
And yet, Hysterical Left bloggers like OInk and Cesca STILL insist that the Tucson rampage is the Right's fault...
Like I said... Those bloggers (and many more like them) ARE the Becks and Limbaughs of the Hysterical Left....
Michale.....
So.....
What did ya'all think of Obama's speech last night?
I think it was pretty close to dead on..
The president struck just the right tone, in effect saying that ALL Americans had to take a good long look in the mirror and assess how we treat and talk to and about our fellow Americans..
I give the speech an A- because he did make a minor flub that will make prosecuting Loughren a little bit harder..
Other than that one ding, it was a damn fine speech.
Michale.....
Ya know, I really have to wonder about many on the Left.. I really have to question their intelligence..
Within MINUTES of the Tuscon attack, the Hysterical Left was screaming to high heaven about how Palin shares responsibility for the attack..
After several days of these bogus accusations, Palin responds..
THEN the Hysterical Left and the Leftist MSM starts slamming Palin for "trying to make it all about her"..
Get that??
The Hysterical Left and the Leftist MSM make the Tuscon tragedy about Palin within MINUTES of the attack..
THEN, when she responds to defend herself, the Hysterical Left and Leftist MSM claim that it is PALIN who is trying "to make the story about her"
You can't see it, but I am shaking my head sadly..
All you have to do is look at the titles of the commentaries from the Hysterical Left in the upper right corner of CWs website. You'll see exactly what I am talking about..
It's not that the Hysterical Left has a differing viewpoint that bothers me..
It's the complete and utter moronic way that they present their viewpoint. THAT's at the heart of my disgust for the Hysterical Left...
Michale.....
Oh yea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s4YfBKs39Y
There are no violent extremists on the Left, are there.. :^/
See what the Cescas and the OInks and the Jamies and the Willises and the Suzies of the Left promote??
How is this any different than what they accuse Beck and Limbaugh of??
Michale.....
See what the Cescas and the OInks and the Jamies and the Willises and the Suzies of the Left promote??
How is this any different than what they accuse Beck and Limbaugh of??
Michale.....
I'll take your word for it but one major difference is that I and probably most people have never heard of those bloggers. I think you would have a hard time finding people who did not know who Beck, Limbaugh and Palin are. Plus if you look at some of the seriously wacko right wing blogs out there it's just as bad. Just as an aside, to me Oink was by far the best music torrent site to ever exist on the net. When was the name usurped for politics?
As to that video, most times I follow a google news link and it goes to a conservative blog or newspaper in a mostly conservative city there are similar things written in the comments about Obama. Go to a fairly unmoderated Xbox 360 forum and there will be similar things posted about PS3 users. Go to a star wars blog and similar things will be posted about Star Trek fans.
Welcome to humanity.
I'll take your word for it but one major difference is that I and probably most people have never heard of those bloggers.
Upper Right Corner. There for all to see...
Plus one of those is a semi-regular poster here..
I think you would have a hard time finding people who did not know who Beck, Limbaugh and Palin are.
So, it's a question of popularity??
"Oh, it doesn't matter because these bloggers aren't as well known as Beck and Limbaugh.. That makes it OK that they act exactly as they accuse Beck and Limbaugh of acting"
Silly me..
I thought whacked was whacked, regardless of the numerical audience...
Plus if you look at some of the seriously wacko right wing blogs out there it's just as bad.
So, you and I are in complete agreement.
The Left has wackos, just like the Right has wackos..
Strange how the Hysterical Left never seems to see this...
As to that video, most times I follow a google news link and it goes to a conservative blog or newspaper in a mostly conservative city there are similar things written in the comments about Obama. Go to a fairly unmoderated Xbox 360 forum and there will be similar things posted about PS3 users. Go to a star wars blog and similar things will be posted about Star Trek fans.
Being one of those Star Trek fans and having more than a passing knowledge of the genre, I don't think I have EVER witnessed where a Trek fan ever wished an agonizing death on a Star Wars fan..
Further, I do a LOT of repairs on both 360s and PS3s and, as such, have a presence in hundreds of forums for both platforms..
Once again, I have never read any posts where PS3 fans wished death on 360 fans...
Such immaturity seems to be the sole purview of the Hysterical Left.. And, to be fair, the Hysterical Right...
But, since you are here... Lemme ask you..
What do YOU think of the accusations from the "whacked" Left that people like Palin, Beck and Limbaugh are "responsible" for the Tucson massacre??? Accusations that came literally MINUTES after the attack was reported....
Pretty whacked, eh??
Michale......
What do YOU think of the accusations from the "whacked" Left that people like Palin, Beck and Limbaugh are "responsible" for the Tucson massacre??? Accusations that came literally MINUTES after the attack was reported....
I think hat since Giffords had stated to colleagues that she thought the political vitriol had gotten bad enough that something bad might happen, the subject is perfectly open to discussion. I think it will be impossible to prove or disprove that Palin/Limbaugh/Beck were in part indirectly responsible by how they fanned the flames of that vitriol and if the vitriol had influence on the shooter. Whereas their direct responsibility is just plain silly. On the other hand I don't mind their feet being held to the fire over it either.
As to what the bloggers did. I don't follow them in general and got news about the whole thing from Google news and local/national TV news so I never noticed it as bad as you seem to. Some, I would guess, are just following what I would call the William Randolph Hearst school of sensational journalism to increase their page views. Others I'm sure are axe grinding as you say. What I'm not so sure about is that the axe grinding some how represents a large cross section of the left. Or that most on the left are somehow responsible for it.
Every group political or not has a fringe elements. I think it rare that a group has responsibly for or should be blamed for that fringe.
Whereas their direct responsibility is just plain silly. On the other hand I don't mind their feet being held to the fire over it either.
Every group political or not has a fringe elements. I think it rare that a group has responsibly for or should be blamed for that fringe.
Seems to me that your latter statement contradicts your former statement..
But, following the reasoning of your latter statement, then obviously you believe that Al Gore shares a measure of responsibility for James Lee taking hostages at the Discovery building. Right??
What I'm not so sure about is that the axe grinding some how represents a large cross section of the left. Or that most on the left are somehow responsible for it.
But yet, you seem to think that Beck and Limbaugh are representative of the Right.
Don't you see the inherent inconsistency in your statements??
On the one hand, you don't think that the OInks and Cescas and Suzies and Marshs of the "media" (blogosphere) "represent a large cross section of the Left"...
Yet, from our previous discussions, you do seem to think that Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh et al DO "represent a large cross section" of the Right.
"Can you explain this, Colonel?? .... The fact is there was no transfer order. Santiago wasn't going anywhere. Isn't that right, Colonel."
-Tom Cruise, A FEW GOOD MEN
:D
I think that since Giffords had stated to colleagues that she thought the political vitriol had gotten bad enough that something bad might happen, the subject is perfectly open to discussion.
Fine.. Let's discuss it.
But any discussion must rest on the EVIDENCE. Not the same political vitriol that Giffords was concerned about.
So, where is the evidence of a link between Loughren's actions and the political vitriol from the Right??
There is absolutely ZERO evidence of a connection between Loughren and the Right..
However, there is a LOT of evidence of connections between Loughren and the Left...
So, what's more likely??
That Loughren was a closet Republican who snuck away and hid in the closet to listen to Limbaugh and had SARAH PALIN tattoed across his chest??
Or is it more likely that political vitriol had NOTHING to do with Loughren's attack and that the Hysterical Left is just epitomizing Rahm's "never let a crisis go to waste" mantra and using this disgusting crime to further the Hysterical Left's attacks on the Right..
Employing Occam's Razor, the answer is clear..
Ironic, though, eh?? The Hysterical Left is employing the EXACT same vitriol that they are castigating the Right over.
The Tucson attack is NOT a Left vs Right issue.
It's a sad story of a scumbag who wanted his 15 minutes of fame and decided to get it by killing innocent people. Loughren didn't know and didn't care whether he killed a Democrat or a Republican. Both Democrats AND Republicans were among his victims..
The attack is NOT a Left vs Right issue. Period.
The sad and pathetic attempts by the Hysterical Left to MAKE it a Left vs Right issue, IS a Left vs Right issue...
Michale.....
But yet, you seem to think that Beck and Limbaugh are representative of the Right.
Don't you see the inherent inconsistency in your statements??
On the one hand, you don't think that the OInks and Cescas and Suzies and Marshs of the "media" (blogosphere) "represent a large cross section of the Left"...
Yet, from our previous discussions, you do seem to think that Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh et al DO "represent a large cross section" of the Right.
Well, nothing close to the inconsistency of your own comments...But I would guess the viewers/listeners of Beck & Palin are 2 to 3, maybe even 4 orders of magnitude greater than the mystery bloggers you cite. I think Limbaugh is on the decline and only included them because you did and I would challenge you to find any post beyond this one where I mentioned Hannity…
There is absolutely ZERO evidence of a connection between Loughren and the Right..
So is "ZERO" the new "FACTS"? Something to trot out when you know you are wrong?
From what I have read, Loughren was quite bipartisan when it came to finding reasons to hate the government. His last writings/youtube video mention the gold standard, a hallmark of the libertarian/republican politics of Ron Paul. As well as the whole government control through grammar thing which is true nut job level radical right.
The attack is NOT a Left vs Right issue. Period.
The sad and pathetic attempts by the Hysterical Left to MAKE it a Left vs Right issue, IS a Left vs Right issue…
And how many of your posts on the subject are trying to tie it to the left?
Interesting that.
Well, nothing close to the inconsistency of your own comments...But I would guess the viewers/listeners of Beck & Palin are 2 to 3, maybe even 4 orders of magnitude greater than the mystery bloggers you cite.
Once again, you seem to equate popularity as the problem..
In essence, you are saying that it's OK that the afore mentioned bloggers are the Becks and Limbuaghs and Hannitys of the Left because they don't have the audience that Beck et al have..
Personally, I think that's a cop out..
Wrong is wrong, regardless of whether it has a large audience or not..
I think Limbaugh is on the decline and only included them because you did and I would challenge you to find any post beyond this one where I mentioned Hannity…
Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh are simply examples of the scapegoats the Hysterical Left uses...
From what I have read, Loughren was quite bipartisan when it came to finding reasons to hate the government. His last writings/youtube video mention the gold standard, a hallmark of the libertarian/republican politics of Ron Paul. As well as the whole government control through grammar thing which is true nut job level radical right
Yet the scumbag is cited by people who knew him as a "liberal pot-head"... And he was a Kerry supporter in '04..
Yet you STILL want to tie him to the Right despite NO EVIDENCE to support such a tie-in..
And how many of your posts on the subject are trying to tie it to the left?
Interesting that.
ALL of my posts deal with how the Hysterical Left is trying to make this attack an indictment of the Right.
As I indicated, that IS a Left vs Right issue...
Michale.....
Personally, I think that's a cop out..
I think it's a stretch to equate obscure bloggers with national media figures.
Yet you STILL want to tie him to the Right despite NO EVIDENCE to support such a tie-in..
Just did. Gold standard. Grammar plot. 2 > ZERO.
ALL of my posts deal with how the Hysterical Left is trying to make this attack an indictment of the Right.
---
Even more interesting, Loughner was a Kerry supporter in that election..
This guy has Left Wing scumbag written all over him and yet the Hysterical Left is trying to blame the Right..
Really?
However, there is a LOT of evidence of connections between Loughren and the Left...
Really?
I think it's a stretch to equate obscure bloggers with national media figures.
Really???
So wrong is only wrong if it has a wide audience??
Just did. Gold standard. Grammar plot. 2 > ZERO.
Really??
What makes that Right Wing?? There isn't any Left Wing loons that rant about government control???
Really???
I point out Loughren's Leftist affiliations, not as blame for the attack, but rather to show the Hysterical Left how completely and utterly whacked their blaming the Right really is...
There is absolutely nothing that indicates that the Right has ANY responsibility in the Tucson attack.
Your claims that his rantings against grammar as mind-control indicates a Right Wing responsibility is simply grasping at non-existent straws...
Loughren was a liberal.. There is evidence to support this fact.
Did that have ANY bearing on his actions?? No evidence supports such a claim..
Just as there is no evidence to support that any Right Wing influences had any bearing on his actions.
"Mom was great. Dad was great. I'm just a shithead."
-Jeff Foxworthy
Anyone who makes the claim that political ideology is somehow to blame for Tucson is trying to use a tragic event to further a partisan agenda.
And that's just sad.. It's pathetic..
Michale....
I must ask, who are you arguing with? These rants have almost nothing to do with what I wrote.
Your claims that his rantings against grammar as mind-control indicates a Right Wing responsibility is simply grasping at non-existent straws...
Ah, no.
I said,From what I have read, [Loughner] (corrected for spelling) was quite bipartisan when it came to finding reasons to hate the government. Then gave examples of the gold standard and the mind control through grammar. Both of which have direct links to the right. Both examples are from a youtube video posted by Loughner weeks before the shooting. You cite classmate opinions from 2004.
I listed them as his reasons to hate the government, not blame for the attack. There is a difference.
But don't let that get in the way of battling the hysterical left by out doing them on the hysterics...
I listed them as his reasons to hate the government, not blame for the attack. There is a difference.
What does his reasons for hating the government have to do with anything??
Was that 9-yr old girl representative of the government???
You cite classmate opinions from 2004.
No, I cite his girl-friends opinion from a couple weeks ago...
But don't let that get in the way of battling the hysterical left by out doing them on the hysterics...
I am not hysterical. I simply list, in a logical and rational fashion, why the Hysterical Left is totally whacked in it's accusations that the Right is responsible for the Tuscon massacre.
And, as per your usual MO, you rush to defend the Hysterical Left with personal and illogical attacks..
Let's lay it out..
Do you believe that the political vitriol from the Right had ANY bearing on the Tuscon massacre??
Do you believe that Palin's map had ANY bearing on the Tuscon massacre??
You get extra credit if you can answer unequivocally YES or NO.. Citing facts to back up your answer would also be a bonus..
Michale.....
What does his reasons for hating the government have to do with anything??
Ah, the shooting incident? Maybe you've heard about it in the news?
No, I cite his girl-friends opinion from a couple weeks ago...
And he was a Kerry supporter in '04. And the girl friend you cite has not seen him in 3 years...
I am not hysterical.
Dude. You have 6 unanswered posts in a row. That is hysterical or at least as hysterical as the left you accuse as such.
And, as per your usual MO, you rush to defend the Hysterical Left with personal and illogical attacks..
Now this is just plain bullshit and you know it.
Do you believe that the political vitriol from the Right had ANY bearing on the Tuscon massacre??
Yes. But then I have already stated to what degree.
Do you believe that Palin's map had ANY bearing on the Tuscon massacre??
No.
You get extra credit if you can answer unequivocally YES or NO.. Citing facts to back up your answer would also be a bonus..
Already cited facts. How much extra credit do I get?
Bashi,
Sorry... I had forgotten about this discussion. Busy weekend..
Ah, the shooting incident? Maybe you've heard about it in the news?
There hasn't been much indication that it was hatred of the government that prompted Loughren's attack..
From reports, the targeting of the Congresswoman stemmed from a 2007 incident..
It's more likely that the impetus was more Loughren's attitudes towards women that prompted the attack, not some fanciful government conspiracy..
And he was a Kerry supporter in '04. And the girl friend you cite has not seen him in 3 years...
Several "girlfriends" have been quoted. One stated information about Loughren that was a couple months old..
Dude. You have 6 unanswered posts in a row. That is hysterical or at least as hysterical as the left you accuse as such.
Prolific does not hysterical make...
Yes. But then I have already stated to what degree.
And yet, you have stated ZERO evidence to back up that belief..
Why is that??
Even now, it's being reported that Loughren was a Left-Wing truther that had a pathological hatred of Bush..
And yet, you STILL think the attack was prompted by the Right???
But credit where credit is due.. At least you don't buy into that total BS about the Palin Map... Would be nice if the likes of Cesca and Osborne and Kos et al be as logical as you in that regard...
http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/nate-beelers-toons/2011/01/birds-blame
Already cited facts. How much extra credit do I get?
Musta missed those facts amidst all your hysteria in a vain attempt to blame the Right. :D
Michale.....
And now comes along James Fuller. A shooting victim of the Tucson massacre under psychiatric evaluation after threatening a Tea Party leader with death...
I suppose HIS outburst was caused by Right wing rhetoric too, eh??
Why can't you simply admit what every logical, rational and politically agnostic person already knows..
Left wing rhetoric is just as violent, just as vitriolic and just as nasty as Right wing rhetoric..
It just doesn't get as much air play because the majority of the MSM is in the bag for the Left...
Michale.....
Ooops A couple unanswered posts...
I must be getting "hysterical" again.. :D
Michale.....