Program Note
Due to a mixup in scheduling, there will be no column today. Our apologies, but hey, Monday's column should really have been a two-parter, and we've got pumpkins to carve for next Monday, so it's a busy week all around even without the snafu.
Call today a rare "open thread" here. I'll even toss out a subject for discussion, how's that?
What do you think the next phase of the Occupy Wall Street protests will become? We seem to be in a critical moment where the choice of what path to walk next will be a crucial one. In the spirit of honoring all protest (which we try mightily to uphold here), I would ask even people who don't agree with the protests to offer up constructive criticism as to what should their next move be. What, in other words, would you offer up as advice to the protesters themselves, at this point?
Again, our apologies for the scheduling problems, and regular columns will resume tomorrow.
-- Chris Weigant
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
What do you think the next phase of the Occupy Wall Street protests will become?
We're already seeing it..
It's imploding..
They are bickering amongst themselves over money. City officials are getting sick and tired of all the money the Oowzers are costing. Crime is WAY up all over the country because cops are too busy babysitting the Oowzers to do their jobs.
It's a perfect example why socialism simply doesn't work..
Too many chiefs.. Absolutely NO indians...
What, in other words, would you offer up as advice to the protesters themselves, at this point?
Pack up and go home. Let the adults handle things..
I would ask even people who don't agree with the protests to offer up constructive criticism as to what should their next move be.
Ooooo Alll right... If I have too...
The Oowzers have forgotten one very simple fact of life..
"If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
The fact that the Oowzers don't have a centralized theme has been touted as their greatest strength. But (as CW has said many times) it's also their weakness. I believe that it's a greater weakness than it is a strength..
The Oowzers have no "flag" for the masses to rally behind. They have no central theme that people can sympathize with or can take as their own..
It's like saying, "We stand against all injustice everywhere"...
Umm.. yea, well, that's great.. But could you be more specific??
In short, Jack Of All Trades, Master Of None...
If the Oowzers want to survive, they need to master one trade and one trade only...
I don't see it happening because their group is simply too diverse...
The Occupy movement simply can't survive because the hierarchical structure they have created precludes them from becoming the "Master" of a "trade"...
Without such specificity, the movement will never go beyond it's mob mentality. If it can't move past the mob mentality, the movement will die..
I wasn't being facetious or sarcastic when I said they should pack up and go home. OK, OK.. The "adults" crack was a tad sarcastic.. :D
But, seriously, that's their best course of action. If they want to be the Left's version of the Tea Party, then they should pack up, go home, plan things better and re-emerge in the spring as a specific group with a specific goal..
But it won't have the impact of the Occupy movement because it won't be as diverse...
That's my sincere advice to the Oowzers..
Michale.....
Another piece of sincere advice to the Oowzers, especially in Oakland..
Getting violent will only discredit your cause and show the world that you are nothing more than spoiled brats and thugs..
Take a lesson from the UK riots.. The people won't show any sympathy or empathy for violent criminals, no matter how morally correct your cause is...
Michale.....
Michale -
I actually agree with just about everything you said. There's an article over at Salon which puts it another way, but in a smiliar vein. It says, essentially, that the OWSers are too wrapped up in "tactics" and have no "strategy" (used in the way the military uses those terms). They're all about the trees, in other words, with no thought to what to do about the forest.
I may write about this today, so I'm still thinking things out. Anyone else? Liz? You're not a big fan of OWS, I know, but just remember that (like the South Park song), we can always "Blame Canada" for it. Heh. Couldn't resist, sorry.
:-)
-CW
One more thing -
I gave this advice to the Tea Partiers BEFORE they really even got rolling, and I'll give it to the OWSers as well -- police your own ranks. So far, they've been doing an admirable job of this, by denouncing the anti-Semite idiots who show up, but they've also got to denounce the rock-throwers as well. Chucking stuff at the cops just hands them an excuse to crack heads.
Anyway, like I said, I'll probably write further about this today or tomorrow...
-CW
I actually agree with just about everything you said.
Now, hold on a damn minute!! I didn't mean.....
.....wait...
What did you say??
:D
I gave this advice to the Tea Partiers BEFORE they really even got rolling, and I'll give it to the OWSers as well -- police your own ranks. So far, they've been doing an admirable job of this, by denouncing the anti-Semite idiots who show up, but they've also got to denounce the rock-throwers as well. Chucking stuff at the cops just hands them an excuse to crack heads.
I think that what happened is that the OWSers started to believe their own press and believed that they were, while not "above" the law, at least apart from the law.
Michale.....
i think part of the issue is pure volume. when there are that many people in that many different cities worldwide, protesting every day with no centralized organization to speak of, it's nearly impossible not to have somebody somewhere on some day be a complete moron. protesters in nineteen out of twenty cities could do a great job of policing themselves, and it wouldn't matter. it only takes one slip-up to make headlines, and there have been several.
Michale -
OK, I'll qualify that. I agree with your post starting from "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything" onwards.
Didn't mean to shock you...
Heh.
nypoet22 -
OK, I wrote a new post, which addresses your point and several others made here. Check out today's post.
-CW
I don't think the OWS folks have any desire to be the "tea party of the left" - I think that's something lots of other people are projecting ONTO them. Then, having projected that, people start telling them what they should do in order to be something they don't want to be.
The OWS movement is breaking all sorts of unwritten rules, which makes people uncomfortable because it takes them into unpredictable territories. But that has been one of their strengths. One of their fundamental messages is that all the standard-issue responses have failed, often repeatedly, so it's time to explore new alternatives.
Ultimately I think their value lies in continuing to shine light on the fact that none of our emperors are wearing clothes. Our major institutions have failed us, one by one, and citizens have ceased to matter. Through their sheer presence; through their continuing inspiration of more Occupy groups (Occupy Accountability, Occupy Marines, etc. as well as location-based Occupations) the message continues to spread, and continues to evolve. It may well be that, say, the New York group, never generates any specific outcome in terms of new laws, return to Glass Steagall, prosecutions, etc., but I'll bet that some offshoot groups that they have inspired will.
Meanwhile, they have shifted the media's focus from deficits to unemployment and the extreme income disparity and concentration of wealth that many economists and pundits have been talking about, to no avail, for quite some time now. Of equal, or maybe even more importance, they have been able to put a lot of people on the defensive, and have created a climate in which a lot of people are coming out with really stupid statements because they're feeling the heat. Eric Cantor wants to make sure the 1 percenters retain their privileged place. Ryan laments "divisiveness" -- talk about the pot calling the kettle black. FOX news outdoes itself with hysterical accusations. CNBC types end up looking like the completely complacent Marie Antionettes that they are. BOFA CEO whines that people are being mean to him.
The Repubs have responded in completely predictable ways and their responses continue to make them look as nasty and absurd as they are.
The Dems are still not sure quite where this movement leaves them, which may generate some badly needed soul-searching on their parts. For OWS is unflinchingly condemnatory about the Democratic Party's failures and those are real failures. While the repubs are continually pushing the envelope on sheer awfulness, the Dems continue to enable them. Maybe less now, finally, but the Dems have a lot to answer for in terms of being a complete non-backstop in the face of republican extremism and toleration of the erosion of our institutions.
For years now there has been a go-nowhere argument raging on the left over what we should do about the Democratic party when it fails us. The answer is always "elect better Dems". The problem with that answer is that it stinks. It is unsatisfactory. That's another example of rigged systems. At present rich people run for office. They can say anything to get elected and then simply renege on their promises. It simply isn't good enough any more to say "wait for 2-4-6 years" to hold them accountable. It isn't good enough to have to wait while they actively do damage. It isn't good enough that we have to fight our way through Koch brother funded and similar disinformation everywhere, with a corporate media that actively aids liars in their lies.
OWS is saying "No More". Not gonna keep playing a rigged game. Don't feel like going around in circles anymore. There has to be better ways. Why do we have to settle for this travesty of a democracy?
Even the violent police reactions that have occurred serve a purpose -- they expose the militarization of our police forces; the criminalization of poverty in this country, and the lie that is "freedom". We are free only so long as the comfortable remain comfortable. Any upsetting of applecarts will be punished. While the powers that be can increase poverty exponentially, you better not be homeless because it's against the law to sleep in public, go to the bathroom in public, put up a tent in a park.
Prior to OWS I was mired in a tired kind of despair. Congress has become a nasty joke. The President has been a disappointment -- regardless of all the Obamabot arguments the bottom line is that he has not been the change we need. He does exhibit a sense of responsibility which makes him head and shoulders better than any single repub on the planet. But he is so enmeshed in this 1% world that I don't believe he really sees how our country has degenerated, any more than the rest of the beltway. He is, at best, "better than the alternative" but that certainly wasn't going to be an exhilerating message for the campaign season.
Now, partly due to OWS, he at least is showing some fight. Whether that lasts one second beyond his second inaugeration remains to be seen. I have become 100% "I'll believe it when I see it" when it comes to Obama. So meanwhile, OWS holds out the possibility of change coming from somewhere other than via the extremely weak reeds that are our "leaders". They've made pundits unsure and uncomfortable which is positively marvelous to see. They put messages on those signs that resonate with me and much of the public and project the message that we are NOT impressed by our "elites". It's extraordinarily refreshing.
So, what should they do now? Who knows? They've done a hell of a lot so far simply by following their noses - doing whatever came next. Maybe your question shouldn't be: "what should they do next?" Maybe your question should be: "What should I (you) do next?"
Speaking of Pumpkins...
Check THIS out...
http://www.lasvegassun.com/photos/galleries/2011/oct/26/Pumpkins/#136982
WOW
Michale.....
I don't think the OWS folks have any desire to be the "tea party of the left" - I think that's something lots of other people are projecting ONTO them. Then, having projected that, people start telling them what they should do in order to be something they don't want to be.
That's a very good point... I think that it's more the Democratic Party that wants the Oowzers to be the Tea Party of the Left rather than the Oowzers themselves..
Which is why I think we have seen the DP leadership backing away from support for the Oowzers.. With all the problems the Oowzers are having, the DP doesn't want to be dragged down with them..
Michale....
Paula -
Thanks for an excellent commentary. I have two questions for you. Before I ask them, I should mention that I am reading your comment here after I wrote the "Occupy Crossroads" column, but before I've read any comments to it -- so if you've commented there and already answered these questions, I apologize in advance.
First, it sounds like you know what you're talking about. Do you have any affiliation with the OWS or Occupy (or "99 Percenter" as I like to call them) movement? I know, I know, there are no "leaders" but I still would be interested on someone's take from the inside, so let me know.
Secondly, your entire comment was very interesting, but I wish you had defined what you mean by "any desire to be the 'Tea Party of the left'."
That, as Michale (of all people) said, is a good point. But what exactly does it mean? What TP attributes are being projected onto OWS? Maybe that's not clear, what I'm trying to ask is what the OWS movement's desire is, and how it is functionally (not ideologically, that one's pretty obvious) different than the TP movement?
I'm not trying to be snarky here, I am intrigued by your comment and interested to hear more of what you have to say about it. How do you define "Tea Party of the left" in other words?
In any case, thanks for a very thought-provoking comment.
-CW
That, as Michale (of all people) said, is a good point.
"Ouch! And the ref takes a point away!!
-Jim Carrey, LIAR LIAR
:D
Michale