The War Between The Republicans, Week 2
I've been saying for approximately a year now that the Republican Party is engaging in an increasingly-escalating civil war amongst themselves. For a long time, this intraparty struggle was really only visible to those who pay very close attention to politics. But now the American public at large is seeing what the wonks have been watching for months, because it really is impossible to ignore the magnitude of the Republican government shutdown and the looming default of the full faith and credit of the United States of America. As we enter the second week of what could be called "The War Between The Republicans," it's going to become more and more evident that Republicans truly have no idea what they want out of their manufactured crisis, and that the voices of sanity within the party (such as they are) are upping the pressure on John Boehner to find a way out -- any way out -- of this mess.
There's no doubt that the people outside the Beltway are angry with Congress right now. But the question within the hallowed halls of Congress is whether the public will even remember this anger one year from now during the midterm elections, and how that anger will translate inside the voting booth. In other words, the same old story for politicians: their own self-interest in keeping their jobs. Democrats are busy polling to bolster their case that the longer the shutdown goes on, the bigger the chances that they'll take over control of the House of Representatives next year. John Boehner himself warned his caucus a few weeks back that a shutdown could indeed hand the House to Democrats, but they didn't listen.
That's all to be expected. Political parties routinely use the fear of what the voters will think in upcoming elections as leverage against their opponents. But Democrats aren't going to convince House Republicans on their own, because many of these Republicans live with such an insulated worldview that they refuse to believe polling until the day after an electoral defeat (see: Karl Rove, election night 2012).
But the real news is what is happening inside the Republican Party. Because it seems that some establishment Republicans have had enough and are beginning to push back. In a handful of districts now held by ultra-right Tea Partiers, moderate primary challengers are emerging as a form of backlash. Republican House members are being challenged not from more-pure Tea Party candidates, but the other way around -- by centrists who decry the Tea Party's tactics as unproductive and unhelpful to actually governing. This trend, so far, is tiny. But it could signal a return to some degree of sanity even within gerrymandered Republican districts, so it is worth keeping an eye on. But it likely won't change any Tea Partiers' behavior until a few of them get "primaried" out of office, which can't happen until next year.
More interestingly, it seems that the big-money Republican donors are getting a little upset with their investments in politicians. Big Business normally welcomes a good free-for-all donnybrook in Washington, because in normal times nothing ever gets accomplished as a result and the public's attention is distracted. But when the fight threatens the financial system that Big Business relies upon for profits, then it becomes a different story. Now, it's hard to feel sorry for Wall Street pouring money into extremist politicians and then later being dismayed that the extremists don't toe their line. They have created this monster, and are now suffering the consequences. But, again, most politicians are most afraid of being kicked out of office, and the news that big donors may withhold their money next year should be sending a shiver down the spine of the Republican Party establishment.
So far, there have been a few dozen House Republicans who already appear convinced that the shutdown strategy isn't working. They've expressed guarded support for a "clean continuing resolution" bill which would end the shutdown immediately, without any Obamacare extortion. But their support has been downright timid, to date. None of them have been openly calling for John Boehner to hold such a vote. None have signed on to Democratic efforts to force such a vote. In fact, a procedural vote was held last week on a clean bill, but the Republicans held firm and even though Democrats fully supported it, it was defeated. So while some Republicans feel free to state in a news interview that they'd vote for a clean bill, they are not directly calling Boehner out to hold one, they refuse to sign a piece of paper forcing one, and they'll vote against such a bill on procedural grounds. That's pretty guarded support indeed.
Democrats are confident that they could win such a floor vote. After Boehner flatly stated over the weekend that the he was sure that the votes didn't exist to pass a clean bill, President Obama called his bluff by saying, essentially, "prove it!" to Boehner. Hold the vote, John, and let's see where the chips may fall (in other words). But Boehner is in too deep to cave, at this point. He's not going to hold such a vote until he can extract some sort of face-saving measure. Doing so would be seen as total capitulation to Nancy Pelosi (which is seen as nothing short of the kiss of death within the Republican Party).
The only question now -- which is an all-consuming question, as we enter Week 2 of the Republican shutdown -- is what Boehner will consider to be sufficiently face-saving in order to break the logjam. Democrats recoil in horror over the concept of tossing Boehner any sort of bone at this point, because they believe they are in the right and Republicans deserve not one iota of extorted legislative reward for their obstructionism. Especially since the Republicans are becoming increasingly incoherent in their demands.
What was the purpose of the shutdown, after all? Obamacare. But as the shutdown continues, you hear fewer demands for Obamacare changes, because Republicans have pretty much lost all public support for their position. The irony is obvious to all: House Republicans wanted to shut down Obamacare, and what they got was the federal government shutting down while Obamacare is open. All while lawmakers are getting paid because they didn't do their own jobs. They followed through on their threat and Obamacare opened for business anyway. That isn't just attempted extortion, that is bungled extortion, and the public knows it.
So watch for Republicans to pivot this week, to the larger battle over the debt ceiling. At first, they larded up the issue with pretty much every Republican legislative dream they could think of. They tossed everything but the kitchen sink into their proposal. But they're already backing away from this pie-in-the-sky idea. Instead, they're going to focus on the grand bargaining on the budget itself, or the "more austerity for all!" position they've hewed to for years. But even this old standby has been undermined by the sharp drop in the annual federal deficit. Barack Obama has made good on his pledge to cut the deficit in half -- the sharpest fall in deficits since World War II, in fact. This weakens the Republican position enormously.
Democrats should put forth a proposal of their own, which states exactly what Obama has been saying all along. After all, nobody has yet even proposed a long-term solution to the budget fight. All the bills which have come to the floor of both houses of Congress are for extremely limited duration -- they're all nothing more than short-term fixes. To put this in plain terms: we are going to have this fight over again, and before the end of the calendar year. That is just about the only thing which everyone in Washington currently agrees upon. So Democrats should help Boehner out by shifting the public focus to that fight. "We're willing to negotiate on anything the Republicans want to bring up, but we need the time to do so, without a gun to our heads," should be the talking point for Democrats. "Our proposal makes a firm commitment to such a negotiation, and explicitly states that everything will be on the table in such discussions."
Call it "supercommittee light." Or maybe not. But whatever it's called, offer such open-ended negotiations as an olive branch to Boehner, so he can go back to his conference and brag that "I forced Democrats to the table!" Because no matter how high the pressure from within his own party to end the brinksmanship, Boehner has taken such a hard line that it is impossible for him to now back down without some method of saving face in the Republican civil war. Democrats promising to negotiate on anything under the sun is not really a concession at all, since they won't be agreeing to agree on anything with Republicans. But if spun as a big concession -- if Boehner can convince his fellow Republicans that it's a political victory -- then it might be the best way out of this mess. Boehner could roll everything together into one comprehensive bill -- an end to the shutdown, a short-term extension of the debt limit, and a firm commitment from Democrats to hold serious budget negotiations over the next two months.
Is this the best answer? Probably not. But it could work, and so far, I haven't heard any better ideas. So it's at least worth trying. Because the alternative is to sit back and watch the Republican civil war take down the American economy as collateral damage in their power struggle. And that's not a very pleasant prospect.
-- Chris Weigant
Cross-posted at The Huffington Post
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
Chris,
<Because the alternative is to sit back and watch the Republican civil war take down the American economy as collateral damage in their power struggle. And that's not a very pleasant prospect.
If only the damage rendered by the Republican cult of economic failure could be limited to the exceptional and United States of America. (I don't really mean that but, GOOD GOD!!!)
Unfortunately, they'll drag much of the rest of the global economy down with them if they aren't stopped from wreaking the havoc they seem so determined to bring about.
How about Obama and the D's sit back and watch the R's as they go increasingly hysterical while the pressure mounts. Boehner's hair erupts into flames and Cruz grows fangs that drip sulfuric acid. Ten minutes before the bell rings Obama simply raises the debt ceiling. The R's anguished cries start them spinning faster and faster creating a huge vortex that lights the sky from the exploding blovinators from Fox News. Eventually the Supremes will sort out who is right and who's wrong, meanwhile the country is saved and the Democrats shall win the House next November. Could happen!
John Boehner himself warned his caucus a few weeks back that a shutdown could indeed hand the House to Democrats, but they didn't listen.
That was then. This is now..
Since Obama and the Democrats have employed a very childish Make-It-Hurt strategy, I predict that Democrats will bear the brunt of the dissatisfaction..
It goes without saying that, when it comes to obamacare, the American people and the Republicans are on the same page..
They've expressed guarded support for a "clean continuing resolution" bill which would end the shutdown immediately, without any Obamacare extortion. But their support has been downright timid, to date. None of them have been openly calling for John Boehner to hold such a vote. None have signed on to Democratic efforts to force such a vote.
There's a reason for that.
They don't exist. They are a fabrication of the Democrat's increasing fear that THEY will be blamed for the shutdown..
In fact, a procedural vote was held last week on a clean bill, but the Republicans held firm and even though Democrats fully supported it, it was defeated.
Loos like Boehner called out Obama and PROVED there wasn't enough support for a clean vote.. :D
The only question now -- which is an all-consuming question, as we enter Week 2 of the Republican shutdown --
Let's be clear.
Democrats hold the Senate and the White House.
The House sent a bill to the Senate that would have prevented the shutdown.
Democrats in the Senate defeated that bill.
Democrats can stop the shutdown immediately by agreeing to the same delay for middle class Americans that they gave their corporate cronies. A point that not one single Weigantian has addressed in over a week...
This is purely a Democrat shutdown, not a Republican one..
These are the facts...
But as the shutdown continues, you hear fewer demands for Obamacare changes, because Republicans have pretty much lost all public support for their position.
Assumes facts not in evidence. The American people are, more than ever, against obamacare. The fact that it has had less than 1% success rate probably has something to do with that. :D
Democrats promising to negotiate on anything under the sun is not really a concession at all, since they won't be agreeing to agree on anything with Republicans.
As I mentioned before, Democrat promises on negotiation are empty and simply not to be believed..
Obama and the Democrats have proven time and time again that they simply cannot be trusted.
In other words, their word means precisely dick..
"Let me tell you something about those skills. As of now, they mean precisely dick."
-Tommy Lee Jones, MEN IN BLACK
Is this the best answer? Probably not. But it could work, and so far, I haven't heard any better ideas. So it's at least worth trying. Because the alternative is to sit back and watch the Republican civil war take down the American economy as collateral damage in their power struggle. And that's not a very pleasant prospect.
Again,I re-iterate. (Probably because it's the strongest point around. :D)
The Democrats have the power to end the shutdown.
All they have to do is agree to the same break for the middle class that they gave their corporate cronies.
If this economy goes down the tubes because of the shutdown, Obama and the Democrats will be blamed.
It's really that simple...
Michale
Eventually the Supremes will sort out who is right and who's wrong,
At least you concede the possibility that the Democrats could be wrong.
That's a start... :D
Michale
Due to public outcry, Democrats caved on the Amber Alert website...
Like I said above..
That's a start... :D
Michale
Is this the best answer? Probably not. But it could work, and so far, I haven't heard any better ideas.
Perhaps, CW. It's tremendously frustrating though because none of this needed to happen.
It's a completely contrived crisis. And ... it's quite likely we'll face more as Republicans ramp up for elections in 2014.
-David
Ya know it's bad for Obama and the Democrats when the Left's number one name in news (Jon Stewart) agrees that the American middle class should get the same delay that corporate cronies and stooges got... :D
Michale
Perhaps, CW. It's tremendously frustrating though because none of this needed to happen.
I completely agree..
It DIDN'T need to happen.
And it WOULDN'T have happened if Obama and the Democrats had just given the same break to the middle class that they gave to their corporate cronies...
It's really that simple...
Michale
David, let me ask you something.
What can DEMOCRATS do to prevent things like this from happening again??
Michale
While I'm glad for your concern for the middle class, Michale, Republicans would have shut down the government anyways.
This 'ingenious plan' as I believe you called it, has been in the works for a long time.
-David
Since the inevitable "answer" is going to be "What can Republicans do?" I'll pre-empt ya by answering that. :D
In my opinion, Republicans can be more organized initially and not push so hard for the extreme right up front..
Republicans can also try to look at things from the Left's point of view. Walk in their shoes, so to speak...
Finally, Republicans should allow for the fact that they CAN be wrong about things and change course if circumstances dictate such..
As an aside to Bashi, that's another thing that I disagreed with Bush about. His "stay the course" mentality. Republicans in general often get hampered by tunnel-vision and are unable (or, more accurately) unwilling to adapt to changing circumstances...
There is an old urban legend about a Soviet artillery commander that was executed on the spot because he wanted to move his artillery back a bit to obtain a better firing solution. The political officer took this as a sign of cowardice, that the commander was wanting to retreat. The commander was executed on the spot..
You see the lesson?? Sometimes, even often times, the best strategy is to take a step back. Get a different perspective of the "big picture"...
Republicans, in general, have a hard time doing that...
OK...
Your turn....
Michale
What can DEMOCRATS do to prevent things like this from happening again?
The Republicans are shutting down the government and making the demands.
According to them, the only thing they will accept is giving them what they want.
If you're really opposed to the shutdown instead of just pro Democrat-bashing, talk to your Congressman.
-David
While I'm glad for your concern for the middle class, Michale, Republicans would have shut down the government anyways.
No, Democrats have shut down the government.
And Obama and the Democrats are doing their damndest to make it hurt..
What do you think about people being thrown out of their homes that they OWN??
What do you think about Obama actually spending money to enforce a shutdown on open air 24/7 monuments..
What do you think about Park Rangers who are saying that they were told to make it hurt as much as possible. "It's disgusting!" said one Ranger..
What do you think about that??
What would you think if it was a GOP administration doing all that??
I think we BOTH know the answers to those questions..
This 'ingenious plan' as I believe you called it, has been in the works for a long time.
Really??
Then why did ya'all say that the shutdown would never happen??
Why did ya'all say, when it DID happen, that it would only last a couple days??
Seems to me your statement now contradicts the statements made previously..
Personally, I don't think it was the plan. I think that, once the shutdown happened and Boehner saw how Obama and the Democrats ("Why would we want to help kids with cancer??") were overreaching, that solidified Republican ranks..
And, again you have to remember, that the GOP and the American people are on the same side as far as obamacare goes..
They are lined up against Obama, the Democrats and their corporate cronies...
Michale
One of the problems here is that ya'all and Obama and the Democrats call Republicans "terrorists" and "arsonists" and "criminals"...
And then you wonder why they aren't wanting to negotiate...
Seriously!!???
Michale
“I’m going to attempt to download every movie ever made, and you’re (HHS Sec Seibilus) going to try to sign up for Obamacare, and we’ll see which happens first.”
-Jon Stewart
Now THAT is funny!! :D
"It's funny because it's true",
-Homer Simpson
:D
Michale
Is this the best answer? Probably not. But it could work, and so far, I haven't heard any better ideas.
With regards to the shut-down, there is no real solution since the hostage taking side has forgotten what their ransom demands were. I can see this extending past the debt ceiling discussion.
With regards to the debt ceiling, I cannot see it going anywhere other than Obama having to take some sort of action himself (based on 14th amendment or what-not) to extend it.
Yes, Obama has 'ruled this out' but this is just him playing politics. He wants Congress to try and sort it out so that it becomes apparent to the big business donors just how lunatic, insane and moronic the party they support have become - willing to bring down the entire global economy if they don't get their way. Once he has shown this to them, he will step in.
Of course, I could be wrong and part of me doesn't think Republicans are stupid enough to play games with the world economy, especially given how unhappy their large financial backers will be at this. But then I didn't think Republicans were stupid enough to shut-down the Government because Obama wouldn't destroy Obama-care - so I guess if I can underestimate how stupid, insane and moronic they are once, I can do so twice...
Also CW, remember that in a war there will be deserters and traitors! http://www.irishcentral.com/news/GOP-Congressman-Peter-King-hints-he-may-become-a-Democrat-VIDEO-226881581.html
Personally, I don't think it was the plan.
It was the plan. February, 2013 ...
http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/ryanriebe/joint-letter-on-sequester-savings
Brought to you by corporate lobbyists FreedomWorks (Dick Armey's former group) and Conservative Action Project (Grover Norquist, among others)
-David
http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/ryanriebe/joint-letter-on-sequester-savings
Brought to you by corporate lobbyists FreedomWorks (Dick Armey's former group) and Conservative Action Project (Grover Norquist, among others)
The thing being ignored by the Echo Chmaber (and most of the Corporate media) is that Democrats actually compromised on their first key point from this article you linked to and reduced spending in the CR to $974b.
But then Republicans said, ok now you've compromised on our first point we want ALL OR NOTHING or we're gonna go hostage on your ass!
Democrats actually compromised on their first key point from this article you linked to and reduced spending in the CR to $974b.
Wow. Boggles the mind. We are indeed living in an Orwellian world where nothing really much matters except 'loud'
-David
^ per my comment above: http://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/FundingLevelCharticle-1.png
Senate originally passed a CR of $1,058b then compromised down to $986b - in agreement with what Republicans wanted...
Or in a slightly different format (I prefer this one): https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BWDzbMTCMAEhx_W.png:large
So Democrats actually totally gave in on the budget, compromising to slightly above the number Republicans wanted. Then Republicans said 'in a completely unrelated matter, we want you to also repeal Obama-care as part of this budget'. It's quite astonishingly laughable that they even attempted this. But then logic, sense and rationale hasn't been a large part of the (House) Republicans of recent...
It's quite astonishingly laughable that they even attempted this. But then logic, sense and rationale hasn't been a large part of the (House) Republicans of recent.
Well ... I guess if what you're interested in is power, conservatives have come up w/ a way to repeatedly move the country rightward.
The trouble I have is that I think we're best as a country when there's balance. We've moved so far to the right that Obama is where Reagan was on the political spectrum and he's being called a socialist.
-David
David,
The Republicans are shutting down the government and making the demands.
So.... Democrats are COMPLETELY blameless??
Well, there's really no sense in discussing it, if you are starting off in fantasy land and refusing to see reality. :D
I'll repeat what I said above..
If Democrats (and ya'all incidentally) refer to Republicans as "terrorists", "arsonists" and "criminals", do you really wonder why they won't negotiate??
Even then, it's Obama and the Democrats who have stated that there will be no negotiation..
Once again, Obama does EXACTLY what ya'all accuse Republicans of doing..
And yet, ya'all STILL support him??
So, once again.. All that is important is that '-D' after the persons name..
Everything else doesn't matter...
Michale
The trouble I have is that I think we're best as a country when there's balance.
Where is the "balance" in calling people who simply disagree politically with you, "terrorists", "arsonists" and "criminals"??
You call that "balance"???
Fer real!!!????
Michale
David,
While I'm glad for your concern for the middle class, Michale,
I am glad that you're glad...
My question is, where's your concern for the middle class??
Why are you supporting breaks for corporate cronies and not supporting breaks for middle class Americans...
That's what Republicans are fighting for...
Are you so fond and used to fighting Republicans that you will fight them on EVERYTHING???
ANYTHING???
You have always said that you will support whoever does the right thing..
Republicans are doing the right thing for the middle class...
Yet, you are STILL fighting them....
Michale
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/maryland-obamacare-exchange-no-doctors-are-found_762222.html
And obamacare just keeps getting better and better!!! :D
"That's a joke, son..."
-Foghorn Leghorn
Michale
A one year delay on obamacare will help the middle class...
This is fact..
A one year delay MAY hurt the Democrats and their corporate cronies...
This is a possibility..
Ya'all have proven beyond any doubt that ya'all care more for the Democrats and their corporate cronies than you do for the American middle class..
I predicted this day would come.
A day when ya'all sacrificed your principles at the feet of The Great Exalted One, Emperor Barack The First..
ANOTHER one that I called dead on ballz accurate...
Michale
No one commenting on how the Obama Administration is throwing people out of the homes that they own??
I am shocked!! Shocked I tell you..
No, I am not... not really... :^/
Michale
Where is the "balance" in calling people who simply disagree politically with you, "terrorists", "arsonists" and "criminals"?
When you disagree then you are someone who disagrees.
When you hold the government hostage because you disagree, you are a hostage taker.
-David
"The government shutdown has revealed the impressive skill of tea party Republicans to say untrue things with sincerity so convincing that they almost sound as if they believe what they are saying."
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/topoftheticket/la-na-tt-republicans-blame-obama-20131006,0,2739790.story
How about this for fair, if Democrats design and enact a government shutdown, you can call them "terrorists"?
Doesn't anyone want to talk about the civil war within the Democrat Party???
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/joe-biden-government-shutdown-debt-ceiling-97969.html?hp=t1_3
No??
Didn't think so..
David,
How about this for fair, if Democrats design and enact a government shutdown, you can call them "terrorists"?
Oh Democrats aren't terrorists..
They just SIDED with terrorists against Bush during the Bush administration..
Oh wait, I guess that DOES make them terrorists..
My bad..
Michale
When you hold the government hostage because you disagree, you are a hostage taker.
Then I guess the Democrats are hostage takers. Because it is they who are holding the government hostage and their ransom is obamacare for their corporate stooges and cronies..
Again, I am gabberflasted that ya'all would side with the corporate cronies against the middle class.
Is Party loyalty REALLY that important??
It's amazing to me because I just can't see how anyone would totally decimate their principles based on Party ideology...
Michale
Wait a tic...
Obama and the Democrats are going all over saying how the debt limit ceiling is the coming apocalypse. That we're all going to die and our country will be destroyed..
Didn't they all say the same thing about sequester??
Once again, nothing but fear-mongering. The same thing ya'all castigate Republicans for, ya'all approve when Democrats do it...
Michale
obamacare just keeps getting better and better...
Here is the Privacy Disclaimer for obamacare.
Should you decide to apply for health coverage through Maryland Health Connection, the information you supply in your application will be used to determine whether you are eligible for health and dental coverage offered through Maryland Health Connection and for insurance affordability programs. It also may be used to assist you in making a payment for the insurance plan you select, and for related automated reminders or other activities permitted by law. We will preserve the privacy of personal records and protect confidential or privileged information in full accordance with federal and State law. We will not sell your information to others. Any information that you provide to us in your application will be used only to carry out the functions of Maryland Health Connection. The only exception to this policy is that we may share information provided in your application with the appropriate authorities for law enforcement and audit activities.
This is the one for Maryland, but it's a standard disclaimer that is on all the websites..
So basically, ANY and ALL of your information can be shared with LEOs or the IRS..
And you people are SERIOUSLY on board with this??
So, I guess all the hysterical screaming about privacy and stuff during the Bush years was simply partisan motivated and ya'all really don't have any problems with your lives being open books.
As long as the Administration has a '-D' after their name....
On another, totally unrelated note...
If I see one more picture of Miley Cyrus's tongue, I think I am going to puke...
Is THAT what passes for "glamour" and "sexy" these days?? Hanging your tongue out to your knees like some cow??
Stop the world! I want to get off!!
Finally, let me ask one more time..
Does ANYONE know of an actual successful registration of obamacare where the person was happy with their new plan??
"Anyone? Anyone?? Beuhler??"
Michale
I really hope this is the final comment about obamacare. It's just that, like Pelosi said, we had to pass it to find out what's in it.
And the more we find out, the more disgusting it becomes..
Did you know that, when you apply for obamacare, you have to provide documentation that proves your credit score??
And, if you have a low credit score, you are charged MORE for insurance??
And this is the law ya'all support???
*REALLY*???
I have to honestly say that, if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, I would NEVER have believed ya'all would support this piece of garbage...
What's it going to take for ya'all to realize that obamacare is NOT a good thing??
Human sacrifices??
Forced euthanasia to harvest body parts??
Michale
I think you've come down with a case of Obamasteria, Michale.
Symptions are:
- Excessive fear mongering
- Outrageous statements about Hitler, death panels, human sacrifices, etc
- The ability to ignore any facts which go against preconceived beliefs
- The belief that Obama is the anti-Christ
- A willingness to go to any extremes (even posing as a liberal) to stop the advance of the Devi ... err Obama
-David
p.s. As for Miley Cyrus ... I'm with you, ick! :)
I think you've come down with a case of Obamasteria, Michale.
Everything I have posted regarding obamacare has been factual..
The fact that no one has any facts to refute any of what I have posted indicates that it is accepted as factual...
In other words, if I am wrong by all means. Prove it..
But if I am not wrong ya could at least acknowledge that.. :D
p.s. As for Miley Cyrus ... I'm with you, ick! :)
I know, right!?? :D
Michale
BTW, I have a new boss named Michael and I'm constantly having to correct my spelling of his name from Michale.
Dang you, Michale!
Ok, you know I'm kidding. Just thought I'd share because I thought you'd find funny.
Cheers, mate
-David
I think you've come down with a case of Obamasteria, Michale.
I am also constrained to point out that referring to another Party as "terrorists" solely because of political disagreements is a sure sign of hysteria...
What's REALLY funny is that, prior to this latest crisis, this was universally agreed on by (up to and including) CW himself...
Now, calling people terrorists just because of political disagreements seems to be not only common place, but EXPECTED...
How bad does THAT suck??
Michale
I think you've come down with a case of Obamasteria, Michale.
What do YOU think about obamacare's privacy statement??
What do YOU think about credit rating being required to purchase health insurance??
Both of these are widely documented..
So, what do you think??
You think it's perfectly OK??
Michale
Everything I have posted regarding obamacare has been factual.
I'm sure some of it is.
I also know, however, that the ACA is going to do a lot of good things like make insurance affordable for many people who it otherwise wouldn't be and end emergency care.
You seem to ignore these things and focus on tiny flaws in order to get rid of something you've opposed from the beginning.
Yeah, there's some things that could be fixed. I think everyone here would agree with you about that. First, and foremost, the rules that are incentivizing some businesses to hire more part-time workers.
Let's fix them then! Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater
I kid you about Obamasteria but you don't seem to see the other side.
-David
I am also constrained to point out that referring to another Party as "terrorists" solely because of political disagreements is a sure sign of hysteria...
It's especially hilarious when one recalls how resoundingly I was criticized and ridiculed when I referred to "economic terrorism"... Which is a LOT closer to actual terrorism than the simple political disagreements we see in the here and now..
I don't think ya'all realize the kinds of precedents ya'all are setting...
All of them bad... Very bad...
Michale
Even then, it's Obama and the Democrats who have stated that there will be no negotiation.
Lol once again totally missed the point. Not only HAVE the Democrats agreed to negotiation, they ALREADY NEGOTIATED and the Republicans got a pretty good deal - close to but not quite the Ryan Budget numbers for the CR. A very reasonable compromise, that I would say went waaaay too far (as usual) by the Democrats.
AFTER the negotiations were over, the Republicans then decided (at the suggestion of Ted Cruz) to add a COMPLETELY UNRELATED stipulation to the 'budget' negotiations. Literally, 100%, completely, absolutely nothing to do with the CR (hence why Obama-care is up and running even though discretionary spending is shut-down). I've pointed this out many times, but you're totally blind to this. Luckily most of the country (judging by polling data) isn't.
Since you completely fail to realize this basic fact - that negotiations ALREADY TOOK PLACE - because of your irrational, emotional, illogical and non-sensical 'blame Obama' attitude then discussing the CR and budget is pointless.
We can discuss the absolute disaster that was the roll-out of Obama-care. Because it seems discussing anything else with you is pointless since you'll ultimately only blame Obama. So we might as well keep discussion to things that there is actually >0% of responsibility falling on Obama's shoulders, like the horrific roll-out of his centre-piece legislation...
http://selfdeprecate.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/repeal-obamacare-political-cartoon.jpg
Hahaha even better http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/5/6/6/Axis-of-Evil-2013.jpg
Hahahahaha http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/B/1/4/Government-Lover.jpg
Ok last one http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/v/4/6/republicans-destroy-america.jpg
Obama approval rating drops to 37%, according to NPR...
Isn't that Bush territory???
Michale
Obama Fear Mongering about the effect of the Debt Ceiling???!!??
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics-live/liveblog/live-updates-the-shutdown-4/?hpid=z2#c1e3ada3-dc00-41d8-92cb-327c5c814d82
Say it ain't so!!!!!
Once again, a steaming crock of total BS cooked up by Obama and the Democrats....
Michale
By the by...
Does *ANYONE* have an obamacare signup success story???
David,
Everything I have posted regarding obamacare has been factual.
I'm sure some of it is.
It ALL is.. Verifiable 1000% factual..
Pick an incident..
ANY incident....
And I'll provide full and complete substantiation..
I also know, however, that the ACA is going to do a lot of good things like make insurance affordable for many people who it otherwise wouldn't be and end emergency care.
No.. You THINK this..
You cannot possibly *know* it because there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE to support such a claim..
You seem to ignore these things and focus on tiny flaws in order to get rid of something you've opposed from the beginning.
A <99% failure rate is HARDLY "tiny" by ANY stretch of the imagination...
But hell, you know me. I am the epitome of fairness..
Given me ONE SINGLE success story..
Just one verifiable success story.
Just one...
I kid you about Obamasteria but you don't seem to see the other side.
I do see the other side. And I have acknowledged it on several occasions...
But hay.. Let's do it again..
Once all the bugs and kinks and crap is worked out, it is entirely possible that obamacare MIGHT actually be good for the American people...
Your turn..
Do you agree that, based on all the available facts, at this point in time, obamacare is a major cluster-frak of epic proportions??
10,000 quatloos says you can't concede that.. :D
Don't worry about the hysteria comment.. I know I tend to go overboard.. But that's only because ya'all are trying to convince me that the sky is gree, water is bone dry and women have absolutely no secrets whatsoever..
But I know better... :D
Michale
I know I tend to go overboard..
But, look at the bright side..
Tonight I get to watch the season premiere of SUPERNATURAL...
So you'll have about an hour or so that will be Michale free.. :D
Michale
Does *ANYONE* have an obamacare signup success story???
Really? There are literally thousands out there. Probably not where you read. The more I read the more I can see why the GOP are trying so hard to stop Obama-care because people (especially Republican people) are quickly realizing the lies and bullshit they've been fed for years isn't true. Example: http://www.nationofchange.org/how-rand-paul-republican-alabama-learned-love-obamacare-1380982708
Don't get me wrong, I think the I.T problems and roll-out was abmissal. But to say 'the I.T System is abmissal' and 'the ACA is abmissal' are 2 completely separate things. The first is my opinion, the 2nd is not (and it's not something that can be decided in it's first 'real' week)...
There are literally thousands out there.
Bullshit...
You have listed at least one, though... That's more than anyone else has listed. :D
But it has no details about what he is paying, so it's incomplete at best...
But it IS a success story of someone who actually signed up..
Time will tell if he is actually legit, as there have been a couple Obamabot plants thrown out there as "success stories"...
We'll see...
But at least you agree with me that the rollout was a train wreck..
That's really all I wanted to hear...
Michale
Does *ANYONE* have an obamacare signup success story?
The state of Kentucky?
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-10-08/what-kentuckys-obamacare-success-might-mean-in-2014
It's surprised a lot of people because I live next to Kentucky and it's not exactly liberal. They've avoided much of the issue by branding the exchange as Kentucky Kynect. If people don't think it has anything to do w/ Obama, they seem to be fine.
And yeah, IT seems to be an issue overall w/ the exchanges. But IT problems can be fixed.
To michty's point, why would you repeal the law because the IT was bad?
Wouldn't it make more sense to fix the IT?
-David
Probably not where you read.
You mean, like CW.com??? :D
Michale
Don't get me wrong, I think the I.T problems and roll-out was abmissal. But to say 'the I.T System is abmissal' and 'the ACA is abmissal' are 2 completely separate things.
Again, Bullshit... It's only 2 separate things because ya'all have a vested interest in it being 2 separate things...
Put another way.. If GTA V had rolled out with their online servers having a 99%+ failure rate, the blogosphere would explode with how crappy GTA V was... They would not differentiate between the game and the IT issue..
And neither would ya'all if you weren't politically invested in differentiating the two...
Michale
Sorry, David..
No details, no verification. California said they had 5 million visits when the actual number was barely over half a million..
Plus you have a Democrat governor who has a stake in portraying the best possible spin..
Give me some facts...
Michale
Put another way..
Would you accept such a generic Rah Rah piece from Walker in Wisconsin???
Michale
And neither would ya'all if you weren't politically invested in differentiating the two...
Hahahaha amazing. Your logic is great. The websites didn't work, so the whole thing doesn't work. Can you imagine if they applied this logic to anything? "Sorry Mr Bank, your website keeps crashing so we're shutting down your bank" lololol
Back on the CR hostage situation. This. Is. Amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=svb-CCdBrXY
http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/10/08/Pentagon-Confirms-Obama-s-Obstinence-Withholding-Death-Benefits-for-Fallen-Soldiers-Families
Just when you think Obama and the (Help kids with cancer?? Why would we do that??) Democrats couldn't possibly go any lower down the sleaze poll, they do...
So, WHO is taking hostages???
WHO are the terrorists???
None of this was required by the shutdown.
It's Obama's Make It Hurt strategy...
And it is abysmal... It's disgusting..
And it's ALL on Obama....
Michale
Riiiiiiiiiight Michale. GLUG GLUG GLUG. Republicans shut down Government services. But it's Obama's fault when people don't receive those services. GLUG GLUG GLUG.
I accidentally posted this to the Native American/Redskins commentary..
My bust..
Anyways...
More Dem civil war...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/dc-mayor-gray-confronts-reid-on-capitol-steps-over-shutdowns-impact-on-city/2013/10/09/02577428-3103-11e3-89ae-16e186e117d8_story.html
Anyone wanna talk about that??
No???
Because it's REALLY interesting..
“Democrats, at this critical moment, have abandoned their long-held principles. It's shameful to hold the city’s local funds hostage to make a federal point.”
-District Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton
Ya see.. It IS the Democrats who are taking hostages...
Anyone wanna discuss it??
No???
Bummer... :(
Michale
Lol see my above comment. It's amazing what you guys can convince yourself. The Echo Chamber really is powerful.
This cartoon sums it up best: http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/B/1/4/Government-Lover.jpg
Also it's funny how Government ain't so 'evil', as Republicans have chirped on for DECADES, when you shut it down and people are pissed. But it's ok. There is always Plan B: Blame Obama! Lolol the whole notion that you've convinced by this is hilarious.
Oh. Dear.
"With the Republican-controlled House of Representatives engaged in a tense, government-shuttering budgetary standoff against a Democratic president and Senate, the Republican Party is now viewed favorably by 28% of Americans, down from 38% in September. This is the lowest favorable rating measured for either party since Gallup began asking this question in 1992.The Democratic Party also has a public image problem -- although not on the same elephantine scale as that of the Republican Party -- with 43% viewing the Democratic Party favorably, down four percentage points from last month."
(my emphasis added)
http://www.gallup.com/poll/165317/republican-party-favorability-sinks-record-low.aspx
Oh. Dear.
Why don't you want to talk about Obama's sinking numbers???
Want to talk about how the Democrats are fracturing???
{{{{chiirrrrrpppp}}}}} {{cchhiirrrrpppp}}
Didna think so... :D
Michale
Oh look..
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/10/09/college-grad-says-obamacare-has-raped-my-future-in-viral-letter/
An obamacare NOT success story...
Remember, one "aww crap" eliminates a thousand "atta boys"...
Michale
BTW, I have a new boss named Michael and I'm constantly having to correct my spelling of his name from Michale.
Dang you, Michale!
Ok, you know I'm kidding. Just thought I'd share because I thought you'd find funny.
Cheers, mate
Hehehehehehehe..
Now THAT was funny... :D
Michale
http://weaselzippers.us/2013/10/09/gross-u-s-taxpayers-shelled-out-634320919-to-build-obamacare-website/
More than HALF A BILLION dollars for the obamacare website!!!
Are you frakin' KIDDING me!!!????
I tell ya, it should be Obama and the Democrats who should be BEGGING for a year delay!!
Ya actually gotta feel sorry for Obama. His name is attached to the WORST website in Internet history...
Obama will be remembered as the Internet Edsel...
Quite the legacy....
Michale
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/10/10/hawaii-relaunching-obamacare-exchange-after-not-selling-any-health-insurance-due-to-software-problems/
For every "success" story ya'all come up with, I can find a dozen stories that show the rollout is a major train wreck...
Boehner put it best..
How the hell can Obama and the Democrats TAX people for not having health insurance when their portal to sign up is a train wreck..
Further, there are reports that these problems go so deep into the code, it's likely going to be many months before the site is working at all.. Possibly the entire sign up period..
As I said. Obama and the Democrats should be BEGGING for a years delay..
Michale
Why don't you want to talk about Obama's sinking numbers???
Want to talk about how the Democrats are fracturing???
Lol maybe you should re-read my post. You probably missed that because of your I-HATE-OBAMA goggles...
LITERALLY every single poll has shown the public blames Republicans for the shut-down. In big double digit numbers too. I haven't seen one that was good news for them, this Gallup poll was the worst one yet though. RCP poll shows that if the House election was held today you'd be looking at a Democrat House tomorrow (only barely though because the Republicans, embracing Democracy, have fucked the House up so bad Democrats have to win it by around 6 points to hold a majority. Bare in mind Democrats WON the House election last year by almost TWO points).
Ya actually gotta feel sorry for Obama. His name is attached to the WORST website in Internet history...
Haha. True.
LITERALLY every single poll has shown the public blames Republicans for the shut-down.
Yes, michty. Everyone in the world blames Republicans.. :D
It wasn't Republicans that wasted MORE resources shutting down 24/7 open air monuments.
It wasn't Republicans who kicked homeowners out of their OWN homes..
It wasn't Republicans that instructed Park Service Police to make things as painful as possible..
It was Obama and the Democrats.
No one wants to talk about that.. How come?? :D
Ya actually gotta feel sorry for Obama. His name is attached to the WORST website in Internet history...
Haha. True.
Now, come on!!! You can't......
Wait...
What you say!??
:D
Michale....