From The Archives -- The Rockets' Red Glare, The Bombs Bursting In Air
Program Note: No new article today, and no new article tomorrow. Wishing everyone a glorious Fourth!
What follows is a repeat of most of a previous column, "Friday Talking Points [84]," from 2009. I cut out the awards sections (Senator-Elect Al Franken won MIDOTW, and in the spirit of celebration, nobody won the MDDOTW), since it was the only "dated" part of the column. The rest of it is still a fun read before you head out to enjoy the fireworks. Have a great weekend everyone -- new columns will resume Monday.
Originally published July 3, 2009
What separates humans from animals can be summed up as one simple thing -- the mastery of fire. Even "using tools" doesn't cut it anymore, as apes have been shown to use their own tools to achieve their own modest goals. When you get right down to it, the sole dividing line between us and the other creatures which crawl this planet can be drawn at the mastery of fire. Animals are still scared of fire. Humans, now, are not.
This may sound like a strange beginning to my annual Independence Day column, but I write today in praise of recreational explosions. In a word, fireworks. Fireworks and the Fourth Of July are inextricably linked in American history, beginning with the first time the holiday was celebrated, in 1777, one year after the Declaration of Independence. Celebrating the Fourth with fireworks is not some modern invention, but actually started at the creation of the holiday's celebration.
Now, Francis Scott Key wasn't watching an Independence Day celebration when he wrote our national anthem, he was prisoner on a British warship as they shelled Fort McHenry in Baltimore, Maryland, in September of 1814. He was watching non-recreational explosions. Explosions with a purpose, you might say. He watched all night -- by "the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air" -- and saw the next morning (by the dawn's early light) that our flag was, indeed, still there. He was so pleased that he dashed off a poem about the experience on a scrap of paper. If you go to a public event tomorrow, you will no doubt sing the first verse of this poem.
But, although fireworks is a big part of Americans celebrating their own history, the public's love and fascination with them is much older than that. The concept of fireworks predates the discovery of gunpowder. This seems like a contradictory statement, but it's true. The Chinese, everyone knows, invented gunpowder long before the Western world became aware of it. But hundreds of years before gunpowder's discovery, the Chinese were using "firecrackers" already, to scare away evil spirits, and (later) at most celebrations (such as weddings). Nobody knows exactly when, but somewhere in the range of 2,000 years ago people discovered that if you threw green (undried) bamboo onto a fire, the air and sap trapped in the sealed chambers (which bamboo naturally makes as it grows) would heat up -- and then burst out of the bamboo with a loud noise. Bang!
Later, some bright spark (that was entirely intentional) decided that the newfangled substance, gunpowder, would make an even more impressive bang when packed into bamboo... and the true firecracker was born.
But we've got to go even further back into the mists of time to understand why we all go "ooh!" and "aah!" during fireworks displays. Because even cruder "fireworks" than exploding bamboo were likely the first form of what we now call "entertainment," if not the beginnings of religion as well.
Thousands and thousands of years ago, the caveman "Ug" figured out how to tame fire (note: the names in this story are fictional and are totally a product of my fevered imagination -- I don't want the guys from the insurance commercials suing me or anything...). This was the crowning achievement of the human race at the time, and a good argument can be made that it was the crowning achievement of humanity -- indeed the defining achievement of humanity -- of all time.
Fire meant heat, light, cooked food, and defense against the animals who were still scared of it. All of which meant the shaggy Ug and his band of fellow cave-dwellers had made the jump from being no more than animals themselves, to being what we refer to today as "human." The taming of fire still inspires wonderment, even to us modern humans today. Anyone who has ever stared into a campfire knows this, and anyone who hasn't is the poorer -- for not having experienced this primeval connection to Ug's first campfire.
Because the fire at the mouth of Ug's cave was not only extremely useful, it was also entertaining. It was something to look at. Something magical. The flames leap around, solid matter is transformed into gas and energy, and the process itself is mesmerizing. But even this experience -- the only such entertainment Ug and his friends had ever seen -- eventually must have palled. So Ug decided to take things a step further. Picking up a branch with an end still smoldering and waving it around produced a thrill of another type. Sparks! Flames! Controlled by human hands!
As I said, this may have also been the dawn of religion, giving the most mystical of Ug's group respect among his or her fellows by being the most creative master of fire. It also probably led to the invention of the torch, but this was a mere utilitarian byproduct. Later, fires would be introduced into ceremonies to mark different ideas (such as the attainment of adulthood, or victory over an enemy) by braving the fire in some way (leaping through a bonfire, or firewalking, for instance).
Imagine yourself as a wandering caveman reporter back in Ug's day. You have heard stories which seem entirely unbelievable to your jaded journalistic mind, so you travel to check out what is really going on, for your readers in the UgTown Daily Post (Note to cynics: Yes, journalism predates fire, and has been conclusively linked to our lizard brain, meaning the dinosaurs were the first consumers of Fox News and its ilk. Ahem. Who's telling this story? Stop interrupting! Hrrmph.) When you get to Ug's cave, you are absolutely blown away. Not only has Ug tamed fire and invented the first fireplace, but he has also progressed to the point of having andirons and fireplace tools, and is working on inventing marshmallows to roast.
Well, no, I made that part up, I have to admit. But, seriously, if your only experience of fire previously had been as a result of a lightning strike, or fleeing in terror from a wildfire, it would be brain-numbing indeed to see the fearful phenomenon tamed and being made useful. And, after it got dark, watching Ug's firewizards actually "play" with fire would have been the news of the millennium.
Watching Ug (The name Ug, it should be noted, translates today as "Prometheus") pick up a firebrand and wave it around or knock it against a tree to cause a shower of sparks to fly upwards would have caused you to utter a new word or two in the human language: "Ooo!" or, perhaps: "Ahhh!"
So as you celebrate the Fourth tomorrow, don't mock Dad for getting in touch with his primal self by actually taming fire and using it to cook the burgers and hotdogs. Because the pride and power he feels in cooking raw meat for his fellow men and women is what separates us from the animals sizzling on the grill. And, later on, when you ooo and aah at the fireworks (unless your local town has cut them due to budget problems), you will be experiencing not only pride of country and a history of fireworks on the Fourth that started on the very first celebration in 1777, but humanity's first step on its ascent towards mastering our domain instead of being mastered by it.
So go out and enjoy some rockets, no matter what their color. Go out and get an adrenaline rush from a few bombs bursting, whether on the ground or in the air. Enjoy your independence, enjoy your pride of nation, and -- in a very fundamental way -- enjoy your humanity. Because the fireworks you view are not only just a thrill, they are also the bedrock of what it truly means to be human.
Volume 84 (7/3/09)
In a similarly American tradition of slacking off instead of doing actual work the Friday before a holiday weekend, I am not providing talking points to Democrats today. Instead I present the full lyrics of our national anthem. If you've never read past the first verse, check it out. And if you get the chance, go visit Fort McHenry in Baltimore, or the Smithsonian in Washington, D.C., to see the original star-spangled banner of which Key wrote. It's worth the trip.
And have a glorious Fourth Of July tomorrow, of course!
The Star-Spangled Banner
Oh, say can you see by the dawn's early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars thru the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
Oh, say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?
On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner! Oh long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more!
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
-- Chris Weigant
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
For the record, Ug's mastery of fire has been loosely chronicled in the movie THE CROODS starring (the voice of) Nicholas Cage..
:D
That's the thing about Nicholas Cage... His movies are either very very good (The Rock, FaceOff, ConAir) or very very bad (The Bad Lieutenant, 8MM)
THE CROODS is one of his better ones..
A great family movie.. The grandkids love it...
Enjoy ya'all's 4th... :D
Michale
Hay Liz,
Since this is likely going to be an Open Commentary, I have a question..
One of the best (if not THE best) aspect of Google is GOOGLE MAPS.... I think it is totally awesome how you can read about a place and then actually SEE that place on a map..
I was tooling around MAPS this morning and came across this:
http://sjfm.us/temp/Canada.jpg
And it really struck me..
Look at ALL the lakes and bodies of water in Canada!!
Holy crap!!
Is that REALLY how Canada is?? You can't go for a mile in any direction without hitting a lake or river...
I imagine that must have been a SERIOUS challenge for roadways and highway systems, eh???
What's it like on the ground???
Michale
What separates humans from animals can be summed up as ...
We are animals. What else would we be? Plants? Minerals? Fungi? Robots?
Many animals aren't particularly scared of fire. They flock to it, to hunt smaller critters that have lost their hiding places.
Look at ALL the lakes and bodies of water in Canada!!
Holy crap!!
No kidding.
I haven't been to the really lake-intensive parts of Canada, but I'm pretty sure those are glacial lakes, basically the same as the lakes in Michigan. The surrounding land is reasonably firm and well drained. The lakes disrupt any attempt to lay out the roads on a grid, but they're not a problem for road-building on land. In Michigan the density of lakes is much lower, so disruption is minor: some don't go through because there's a lake in the way, but the grid pattern works just fine. In parts of Canada, there would be no point in trying to set up a grid of roads.
The town of Calais in Maine is right across the border from St Stephen in New Brunswick. The fire departments go to each others' fires, and so forth, and it has always been that way -- during the War of 1812, the British insisted on leaving gunpowder for the citizens of St Stephen to defend themselves, despite their insistence it was not necessary. They gave it to Calais to use for 4th of July fireworks.
The utter moronic-ness (an old word I just made up :D) of illegal immigrant supporters never ceases to amaze me..
First we have some IDIOT who said, "By and large illegal immigrants obey the law."
Now we have ANOTHER idiot in Murrieta, CA who says, "I'm here because I believe that we're a country based on laws. It doesn't matter how the immigrants got here — the fact is they're here."
This mentally challenged dipshit's second statement totally negates his first... If we are a country based on laws, then the fact that these ILLEGAL immigrants got here ILLEGALLY does, in fact, matter...
I would further point out to this mental midget that, if he came home from vacation and found that someone had broken into HIS house and was consuming HIS resources, how would he feel if he called the cops and the cops told him, "Sorry. It doesn't matter HOW they got into your house. They are there and you have to let them stay."
The Immigration debate would be a LOT more interesting if it came with less hysteria and less emotionalism and more facts and more logic..
I mean, sheeesh.. I ain't even breaking a sweat countering these lame emotional and hysterical arguments...
Michale
I am also constrained to point out that Illegal Amnesty is a PERFECT example of a "vital" Leftist agenda being supplanted by the greedy strive for power...
Each illegal immigrant has 20x the carbon footprint here in America that they would have in their own country.
If the Left REALLY cared about Human Caused Global Warming (Yet No Warming In Decades) then the Left would fight tooth and nail to keep these illegals out...
After all....
"OH MY GODS, WE HAVE TO SAVE THE PLANET!!!!"
Apparently, minting millions of fresh new Democrat voters is a lot more important than saving the planet... :^/
Color me shocked....
{/sarcasm}
Michale
Activist to distribute flashlights to border crossers
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/border/activist-to-distribute-flashlights-to-border-crossers/article_3258bbee-e509-56ba-8b71-95afa671f053.html
So much for the "Being A Country Of Laws" BS, eh??
"Aidin' and Abettin'..."
-Sheriff Farley, MY COUSIN VINNY
:D
According to the Left, we're only "A Country Of Laws" when it suits their agenda...
Two be fair, the Right is the same way...
And so it goes.... And so it goes.....
Michale
In other news...
Israeli authorities made a swift arrest in the murder of a Palestinian teen...
Wouldn't it be great if Palestinian authorities dealt justice just as swiftly??
Oh, I forgot.. Palestinian authorities are too busy praising the scumbags who brutally murdered 3 teenage Israelis, one with dual US citizenship...
It boggles the mind how ANYONE can find fault with Israel...
Michale
In NSA-intercepted data, those not targeted far outnumber the foreigners who are
Files provided by Snowden show extent to which ordinary Web users are caught in the net
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/in-nsa-intercepted-data-those-not-targeted-far-outnumber-the-foreigners-who-are/2014/07/05/8139adf8-045a-11e4-8572-4b1b969b6322_story.html
So here's another story where, if it had happened under a GOP POTUS, the Left would have gone batshit unglued over it...
But, because it's Obama, the response from the Left is nearly non-existent..
Funny, iddn't it??
Michale
And, since I haven't bashed Hillary in at LEAST a couple days.. :D
Hillary says steep university speaking fees go to charity — the Clinton Foundation
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/5/hillary-says-exorbitant-university-speaking-fees-g/
Oh Wow!! Hillary is so awesome.. She gives her exorbitant over-priced speaking fees to charity!
How AWESOME is Hillary!!!
Wait a tic.. Hillary RUNS the charity that she "donates" her fees to...
So, in effect, Hillary is donating her exorbitant speaking fees to herself!!
Whatta crock!! Whatta con!!
That's like Richard Branson "donating" 1 billion dollars to aid Human Caused Global Warming (Yet The Country Has Actually COOLED In The Last Decade!!!)...
But Branson "donated" that 1 billion dollars TO HIS OWN COMPANY!!!
It's a con... Pure and simple...
And there are actually people on this planet who are stoopid enough to buy into the con...
Barnum was right.. There IS one born every minute..
And they seem to be ALL Left Wingers... :D
Michale
It's time to kill the word 'troll' This pejorative of the internet era is as unhelpful as it is intellectually lazy
http://theweek.com/article/index/264238/its-time-to-kill-the-word-troll
Although use of the term here in Weigantia is practically non-existent these days, I thought this was a clever and informative explanation as to WHY... :D
Michale
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-California/2014/07/07/Protestors-Keep-Third-Round-of-Illegal-Alien-Buses-from-Murrieta-Border-Patrol-Station
The American people are speaking loud and clear...
Why don't Obama and the Democrats listen??
Because it is in their POLITICAL best interests to ignore the will of the people...
AGAIN......
Michale
Just when ya'all thought TrainWreckCare was out of the woods.. ;D
Get ready for an even bigger threat to Obamacare
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0701-turley-obamacare-subsidy-halbig-20140701-story.html
Hobby Lobby was a mere love-slap down of Obama's abysmal Health Care debacle..
Halbig vs. Burwell is a bone-crushing bona fide full on body slam that will pulverize TrainWreckCare.
How do you like your Obamacare now, eh? :D
Michale
SELF-SERVE BEER STATIONS MAKE DEBUT
http://abc7.com/sports/self-serve-beer-stations-make-debut/164112/
Technology has peaked!! :D
Michale
Michale,
I imagine that must have been a SERIOUS challenge for roadways and highway systems, eh?What's it like on the ground???
If you're in certain parts of the prairies, then it's very wet due to another consecutive year of massive flooding - just one example of the destructive effects of global climate change spurred on by the unchecked use of fossil fuels and related human activity.
You should have a look at the google maps of the disappearing polar ice caps!
The vast majority of the Canadian population resides and works within a relatively narrow band of land along the US border, by the way.
If you're in certain parts of the prairies, then it's very wet due to another consecutive year of massive flooding - just one example of the destructive effects of global climate change spurred on by the unchecked use of fossil fuels and related human activity.
{{cough}} {{cough, cough}} bullshit... {{cough}} {cough} :D
You should have a look at the google maps of the disappearing polar ice caps!
There is actually 30% more polar ice on the planet in 2013 than there was in 2012 ago...
And now it's global COOLING! Return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 29% in a year
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/And-global-COOLING-Return-Arctic-ice-cap-grows-29-year.html#ixzz36tLvKfoW
Antarctic Ice Sheets are growing at a fantastic rate..
Global warming computer models confounded as Antarctic sea ice hits new record high with 2.1million square miles more than is usual for time of year.
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2681829/Global-warming-latest-Amount-Antarctic-sea-ice-hits-new-record-high.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&utm_source=Daily+Carbon+Briefing&utm_campaign=0c21b4fdf0-DAILY_BRIEFING&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_876aab4fd7-0c21b4fdf0-303421281
According to the models/predictions, there shouldn't BE any ice growth at all.... It should be in a steep decline in BOTH poles...
Ya see, that's the EXACT problem with the doom-saying fear-mongering of the Human Caused Global Warming (Yet There Ain't No Warming) group...
REALITY doesn't seem to match up with their models...
EVERY SINGLE MODEL/PREDICTION has been wrong...
NOT ONE SINGLE MODEL/PREDICTION has *EVER* predicted ANYTHING accurately...
With that kind of track record, ya might think rational people would say, "Hmmmmm... Something ain't right here..."
The United States has actually COOLED several degrees in the last couple decades....
The vast majority of the Canadian population resides and works within a relatively narrow band of land along the US border, by the way
Really??
I did not know that...
I bet it's because Americans are just such awesome people that Canadians just want to be close to us, hoping some of the awesomeness will rub off, eh? :D
Michale
Holy crap!!
Missile attacks on Tel Aviv....
http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Iron-Dome-intercepts-second-rocket-over-greater-Tel-Aviv-361994
'Bout time Israel just paved over Gaza and be done with it...
Michale
Michale, just step away from climate science. Your misinformation is just painful. Quoting a tabloid with a known conservative and anti clime change bias and pawning it off as science? Sad. Try some real science for a change. Take your Arctic ice cap story above. 2013 was an outlier so of course there is more ice than the year before but if you look at more complete data: [nsidc.org] rather than cherry pick, you will see the actual trend.
As for the antarctic ice. Please learn the difference between land ice and sea ice before making erroneous generalizations. Sea ice is seasonal. Land ice takes thousands of years to accumulate and is melting/sliding at a pretty alarming rate.
According to the models/predictions, there shouldn't BE any ice growth at all.... It should be in a steep decline in BOTH poles...
Which model? Put up or shut up...
Hint: you already posted a model in one of your previous copy and paste jobs that prove this wrong. Forget to read what you post again?
EVERY SINGLE MODEL/PREDICTION has been wrong...
NOT ONE SINGLE MODEL/PREDICTION has *EVER* predicted ANYTHING accurately...
Complete and utter garbage. First off some of the models have been quite accurate. Second, some have been overly conservative and inaccurate in the opposite direction that would prove your overall anti-climate change stance. summertime melting of Arctic sea-ice for example was predicted at a much lesser rate by the IPCC AR4 climate models...
The United States has actually COOLED several degrees in the last couple decades....
Got anything to back that up? Not that it matters. The temperature of 2% to 6% of the world land mass (depending whether you count land only or include ocean area under us control) is meaningless compared to the global mean which is higher.
{{cough}} {{cough, cough}} bullshit... {{cough}} {cough}
Balls on accurate, just directed at the wrong person...
Michale,
I did not know that...I bet it's because Americans are just such awesome people that Canadians just want to be close to us, hoping some of the awesomeness will rub off, eh? :D
You got that right!
But, you know what really mystifies me about your apparent stance on climate change? It's the fact that our continued dependence on fossil fuels allows folks like those who make up the membership of groups like ISIS/ISIL to profit from that dependency.
Bashi,
Complete and utter garbage. First off some of the models have been quite accurate.
Really??
Find me one..
Find me ONE Human Caused Global Warming (Yet Al Gore/Richard Branson Is Laughing All The Way To The Bank) model/prediction that was accurate.
Just ONE..
And you'll never hear another word from me.
I can safely make that bet because not one single model/prediction has EVER been accurate...
Face it, Bashi.. You will always lose this debate because, for every piece of science that you can come up with that supports the THEORY, I can come up with an equal piece of science that disputes the theory...
For every reputable scientist (if there actually is one left) that supports the THEORY, I can come up with an equally reputable scientist that DOESN'T support the theory...
You cannot win.. I have facts and logic AND science on my side...
You just have hysterical fear-mongering and science..
Liz,
It's the fact that our continued dependence on fossil fuels
Newsflash.. EVERYONE is dependent on fossil fuels..
So anytime ANYONE does just about ANYTHING on this planet, they are using fossil fuels...
So, I guess that means everyone is in bed with Isis...
Which, if we were talking about the Saturday morning kids show that would... uh never mind.. :D
But there is a way we can get rid of the ISIS/ISIL support..
Exploit the fossil fuels that are VERY prevalent here in North America..
But then you run into ANOTHER Leftist bunch of loons...
Sure, it would be nice to get rid of fossil fuel dependency..
But explain to me one thing?
How is making AL Gore and Richard Branson richer going to acheive that??
How is spending TRILLIONS of dollars on TALKING and LOBBYING about the problem going to fix the problem??
Michale
For every reputable scientist (if there actually is one left) that supports the THEORY, I can come up with an equally reputable scientist that DOESN'T support the theory...
You can always bring up that "97% of scientists......" bullshit.....
Go on.. I DARE you!! I DOUBLE DOG dare ya!!! :D
Michale
But then you run into ANOTHER Leftist bunch of loons...
Actually, pretty much the SAME bunch of loons.
http://sjfm.us/temp/green1.jpg
Michale
You cannot win.. I have facts and logic AND science on my side...
"You cannot win! I have god on my side!!"
-Max Von Sydow, NEEDFUL THINGS
:D
Michale
There's an old sea story about a ship's Captain
Who inspected his sailors, and afterward told the first mate that his men smelled bad...
The Captain suggested perhaps it would help if the sailors would change underwear occasionally.
The first mate responded, "Aye, aye sir, I'll see to it immediately!"
The first mate went straight to the sailors berth deck and announced, "The Captain thinks you guys smell bad and wants you to change your underwear."
He continued, "Pittman, you change with Jones, McCarthy, you change with Witkowski, and Brown, you change with Schultz."
THE MORAL OF THE STORY:
Someone may come along and promise "Change",
But don't count on things smelling any better.
:D
http://news.yahoo.com/how-the-u-s--is-letting-russia-beat-them-to-the-punch-on-military-aid-to-iraq-203343350.html
Another consequence of Obama's "Lead From Behind" (AKA The Coward Of The Country) style of "leadership"...
Give a Russia/Iran confab complete run of Iraq...
What could POSSIBLY go wrong???
Jan 2017 simply CANNOT come fast enough...
Michale
Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over
Voters strongly believe the debate about global warming is not over yet and reject the decision by some news organizations to ban comments from those who deny that global warming is a problem.
Only 20% of Likely U.S. Voters believe the scientific debate about global warming is over, according to the latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey. Sixty-three percent (63%) disagree and say the debate about global warming is not over. Seventeen percent (17%) are not sure. (To see survey question wording, click here.)
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/general_lifestyle/july_2014/only_20_think_debate_about_global_warming_is_over
Sorry, people. Ya'all are on the LOSING side of this debate....
Michale
Find me ONE Human Caused Global Warming (Yet Al Gore/Richard Branson Is Laughing All The Way To The Bank) model/prediction that was accurate.
I probably can't as I have no idea what you are blabbing on about in this sentence but for accurate scientific computer modeling that is accurate in a scientific research context rather than a political one see: This one. If you look at many computer simulations, the timing is usually off a bit the effect is dam clear.
Face it, Bashi.. You will always lose this debate because, for every piece of science that you can come up with that supports the THEORY, I can come up with an equal piece of science that disputes the theory...
For every reputable scientist (if there actually is one left) that supports the THEORY, I can come up with an equally reputable scientist that DOESN'T support the theory...
I'm still waiting for this equal piece of science or reputable scientist. It's been years now. If you are going to copy and paste off a denier site, at least mix up the order. Last time was just sad. I googled the first one and came up with a site at the top of the page that had all your links in the order you posted them. Bonus point if you actually read what you post. The few I looked at took a part of a paragraph out of context with the rest of the paper and the denier point was shown to be wrong further in.
You cannot win.. I have facts and logic AND science on my side...
See my link in post [18]. That is actual fact and science. Try it some time. As to I cannot win because you say so... Steps slowly away from the delusional crazy person...
I'm still waiting for this equal piece of science or reputable scientist.
I am still waiting for you to state officially, for the record, that there is NO viable scientific evidence that disputes the theory that the planet is headed for imminent destruction and that there is NO reputable scientist that refutes the theory that the planet is heading for imminent destruction.
Is that your position??
Yes?? Or No...
As far as the Hansen 2005 Graph, that is a measure of climate SENSITIVITY, not much to do with actual warming..
Having said that, the "scenarios" that Hansen "predicts" are so widely varied that he couldn't be wrong, regardless of what happened.
It's like me saying, "It may rain tomorrow, it may not.."
I would be right 100% of the time..
Doesn't mean my "prediction" is worth a damn...
So it is with your political "scientists".
Human caused global warming is NOT science.
It's politics...
Pure and simple....
Michale
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/dem-rep-rips-obama-aloof-bizarre-and-detached_796290.html
Obama has time to play pool and drink beer...
But doesn't have time to hit the border and see what a debacle his policies have wrought...
No wonder his approval rating is in the toilet...
Michale
I am still waiting for you to state officially, for the record, that there is NO viable scientific evidence that disputes the theory that the planet is headed for imminent destruction and that there is NO reputable scientist that refutes the theory that the planet is heading for imminent destruction.
Is that your position??
Yes?? Or No...
What? Am I arguing with a brick wall here? Instead of waiting, how about reading. I answered this exact question last time we discussed this subject and you replied to that answer. Short of it is: mixing "imminent destruction" and the science of climate change is a figment of your imagination. Unless, depending on how you define "imminent", you own land in low lying Florida. Then you might not plan on leaving it to your grand kids...
As far as the Hansen 2005 Graph, that is a measure of climate SENSITIVITY, not much to do with actual warming..
Having said that, the "scenarios" that Hansen "predicts" are so widely varied that he couldn't be wrong, regardless of what happened.
Ahh..NO [giss.nasa.gov] read the paper yourself.
So it is with your political "scientists".
Human caused global warming is NOT science.
It's politics...
Pure and simple....
Aww, can't back up your argument so you become sullen and dismissive. The only politics in this discussion are on ones you bring in, and it's a pretty heaping, steaming pile of them...
Bashi,
What? Am I arguing with a brick wall here? Instead of waiting, how about reading. I answered this exact question last time we discussed this subject and you replied to that answer. Short of it is: mixing "imminent destruction" and the science of climate change is a figment of your imagination.
Well, THAT is exactly what LEFT WING morons have been arguing for the last 20 years..
OK.. So... We are in agreement..
There is NO imminent catastrophe that is going to destroy the planet or human kind...
We have nothing let to debate then...
Ahh..NO [giss.nasa.gov] read the paper yourself.
I read your graph... Hansen is saying, "It might rain, it might not"...
That isn't science..
THAT is simple bullshit..
But, it's a moot point..
There is no imminent catastrophe...
We are agreed...
Michale
Well, THAT is exactly what LEFT WING morons have been arguing for the last 20 years..
Well, climate scientists have not and they are who I have been following, nor have I seen much of that from the left. Are you sure you are looking beyond only what you want to see?
OK.. So... We are in agreement..
I repeat myself but, yes, the human race will not end, nor will the earth become an asteroid field.
Not that that statement has anything to do with the subject at hand...
I read your graph... Hansen is saying, "It might rain, it might not"...
Translation: you refuse to even look at a counter argument. Yup, politics pure and simple.
And that is far from what he is saying. Read the paper, you might learn something.
There is no imminent catastrophe...
Well, that depends on how you define that phrase. Many people are likely to die. Orders of magnitude more than from terrorism. Not many will be from modern westernized countries, so most won't care that much.
Well, climate scientists have not and they are who I have been following, nor have I seen much of that from the left. Are you sure you are looking beyond only what you want to see?
Who do you think are feeding the Left Wing morons??
The Climate (so-called) Climate scientists that you quote...
Well, that depends on how you define that phrase. Many people are likely to die.
Newsflash for you sunshine..
"Many people" are likely to die anyways.... Even if there isn't any climate catastrophe...
THAT is the "fun" of your so-called "scientists"...
They can be as ambiguous and as equivocal as is possible and NO ONE questions them...
Orders of magnitude more than from terrorism
Yer cite for that???
BBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Fear mongering... :D
Look, I get it..
Yea, in 200, 300, 400 years the world MIGHT have some climate catastrophe...
And, in 200, 300, 400 years the world MIGHT have the Yellowstone Caldera explode...
And...
It MIGHT not...
Do we destroy ourselves NOW because of what *MIGHT* happen in 200, 300, 400 years???
Where is the logic in that???
C02 has risen 400% in the last couple decades..
World temps have nearly flat-lined...
Can your priests (so-called 'scientists') explain that??
No they can't...
It's a crap shoot, Bashi...
It's no different than me saying, "It might rain tomorrow, it might not.."
THAT is the so-called "science" you are trying to defend...
There is no imminent (100+ years) catastrophe...
THAT is the reality...
Deal with it...
Michale
Michale [1] -
Haven't seen "The Croods" (looked pretty silly) but I will now check it out! Nick Cage is in it? Really?
dsws [3] -
What about Minnesota? Inquiring minds want to know.
DisabledDoc [4] -
That is a pretty cool story. 1812 was a strange time on the Canadian/US border, so it's very interesting to hear of towns that rose above the fray (at least, to me)...
Michale [9] -
I have to agree, to a certain extent. The media largely ignored this recent revelation, despite spotlighting previous ones. Perhaps they're becoming jaded, who knows?
[12] -
Breitbart? Really?
[13] -
Is this the "the State" case? It's never going to fly... this simply wasn't the intent of the law, as the framers of the law have said (in a brief filed with the court).
[14] -
Japan did this years ago, sorry. Beer vending machines!
LizM [15] -
My mom just drove across Ontario, and she said it never ended! Only driven between Detroit and Buffalo, myself, but had to share that with you at least.
:-)
LizM [19] -
That may be changing. Didn't the US just achieve energy independence this year? As for Canuckistan (sorry... heh), how about those tar sands? Not very environmental, are they?
But I totally agree about lessening the impact of the Middle East., That's going to make things a lot easier for both countries, in the long run.
As for the rest of this "debate" -- how did we get here from enjoying fireworks on the 4th? Am I going to have to institute some sort of "relevant to the thread" rules here, or what?
Hmmph. Fireworks are awesome. There's a topic for general debate. Discuss among yourselves...
-CW
Is this the "the State" case? It's never going to fly... this simply wasn't the intent of the law, as the framers of the law have said (in a brief filed with the court).
It has to do with the subsidies issue.
The text of the law is fairly clear. According to the article, it's looking fairly sure that the Appeals court will rule against Obamacare..
Of course, nothing will happen right away. It will go to the SCOTUS...
Considering Obama's luck with the SCOTUS lately.... :D
But if the ruling DOES go against Obamacare then it will decimate the thing...
As for the rest of this "debate" -- how did we get here from enjoying fireworks on the 4th? Am I going to have to institute some sort of "relevant to the thread" rules here, or what?
It's what happens when ya do a FTA commentary.. :D
Frankly I was surprised it got going myself. :D
Michale
Haven't seen "The Croods" (looked pretty silly) but I will now check it out! Nick Cage is in it? Really?
His voice anyways.. :D
Yea, it's a funny movie... I almost guarantee you that ya'all will like it..
Michale