Boehner And McConnell Argue Over Who Should Cave First
The 1828 presidential campaign was one of the most vicious in all of American history. While campaigning on what would today be called populism (complete with a "Let the people rule" slogan), Andrew Jackson was called a nothing short of a "jackass" by his opponents. Jackson, in a feat of political jiu-jitsu, then embraced the jackass label as his own. This is why, today, the Democratic Party is often represented by an image of a jackass (which is usually euphemistically referred to as a "donkey"). This historical introduction is necessary to put Speaker John Boehner's recent comments regarding Senate Democrats into context and perspective.
The current congressional fight isn't even really one between the two parties, but rather between House Republicans and Senate Republicans. This basic fact isn't going to stop Republicans from both chambers from attempting to throw all the blame -- for their own inadequate grasp of basic math (counting votes) and their own lack of a basic understanding of how bills become laws -- onto the Democrats. When asked about the next step for Republicans in their windmill-tilting over the Department of Homeland Security funding and President Obama's new immigration policy, Boehner tried to shift the blame elsewhere, responding: "Why don't you go ask the Senate Democrats when they're going to get off their ass and do something other than to vote no?"
What Boehner is asking Democrats in the Senate to do, when put in the proper historical and metaphorical context, is to stop being Democrats. Getting up "off their ass" would mean, in essence, jumping on an elephant instead. Boehner is basically mad that Senate Democrats insist on being Democrats and refuse to become Republicans. But, as Andy Jackson would tell you, jackasses are known, more than anything else, for being stubborn. So Boehner's strategy is just not going to work.
OK, I admit that's kind of a long way to go to point out an amusing linguistic parallel, but I felt the journey was worth the reward. Kind of like Chris Christie announcing his new political action committee would be named: "Leadership Matters For America.Org" (just read the initials...).
Jackassery aside, however, the emerging dynamic between John Boehner and Mitch McConnell is one to watch, because it is heading for a showdown in the next few weeks. Sooner or later, one of them is going to have to cave in to the hard, cold reality that Republicans just do not have the votes to impose their will on a Democratic president. Boehner, amusingly, also said in the same interview: "You know, in the gift shop out here, they've got these little booklets on how a bill becomes a law." Boehner is not just happy that Mitch McConnell is now taking a lot of heat (that used to be directed at Boehner), he seems downright delighted by the situation. It's hard to blame him, because Boehner has been the one for the past four years who has had to explain to his own caucus in the House the realities of passing actual legislation. Deflecting this Tea Party wrath onto McConnell is quite obviously a big relief for Boehner.
At the heart of this standoff is the bill to fund the Department of Homeland Security. The Republicans have staked out two positions on the subject which cannot be reconciled (at least, without a whole bunch of Democrats voting with Republicans, which is just not going to happen). Their base demanded a bill which essentially overturned President Obama's new immigration policy. The House let the Tea Party extremists on the issue write this bill, which they then obligingly passed. This absolutely guaranteed that it would never even make it through the Senate for Obama to veto. McConnell obligingly brought it up for a vote. Two of his own Republicans defected in the vote (one voted with the Democrats, one abstained). He brought it up for a vote two more times, just to prove to the House Republicans that the bill was completely dead in the water. It didn't get anywhere near the 60 votes required to move forward.
But the second position Republicans staked out sets up the showdown, since leaders in both houses swore that they would not shut down Homeland Security over their immigration fight with Obama. Somehow -- always without details -- the D.H.S. budget would pass by the deadline at the end of February, and there would be no D.H.S. shutdown. Which means the clock is ticking, with no solution in sight.
Actually, that's not quite true. Anyone who has read that "how a bill becomes law" pamphlet (or seen the "Schoolhouse Rock" video, for that matter) can tell how this is going to end. Republicans will make all the political hay over the issue as they can possibly manage, and then at the end of the day, they will cave in and pass exactly what the Democrats are demanding: a "clean" bill to fund D.H.S., without the big immigration fight. This will happen somewhere around (either just before or right after) the last minute. Everyone knows this is the endgame, including John Boehner and Mitch McConnell. That's why they're so adamant when swearing there will be no shutdown of D.H.S.
The only real question left is one that most Americans could probably care less about: Who will blink first, Boehner or McConnell? This is where things descend into incompetence, if history is to be any guide. If these were normal times, with a more normal Republican Party, they would realize that what is called for is a compromise with Democrats. Perhaps by watering down the anti-Obama pieces of the bill, they might entice some Democrats to vote for it. If they successfully passed a compromise bill through the Senate, they could likely get at least a percentage of what they're now demanding. The House would then reluctantly pass the watered-down bill, and Obama might even reluctantly sign it.
That's how it is supposed to work, and how incremental progress towards a political party's agenda is achieved, when they don't control veto-proof majorities of both houses of Congress. But that is likely not how this standoff will end, no matter what the "how bills become laws" booklet has to say on the matter. "Compromise" is the ultimate insult in the Republican Party these days, and therefore nobody's going to propose anything that addresses Democratic concerns in any way. Instead, Boehner and McConnell are going to engage in a game of "chicken," to see which one blinks first. Rather than working for half a loaf (or even one-quarter of a loaf), both Republican leaders will issue statements condemning each other's lack of action right up to the deadline itself. The "perfect" (as they define it) will, once again, succeed in sacrificing any "good" (again, as they define it) Republicans might have achieved.
You can see these battlelines already starting to take shape. After strategy meetings this week among both House and Senate Republican caucuses, here is a sampling of Republican quotes from both sides of the Capitol. From House member John Carter:
I say to them [Senate Republicans], work 24 hours a day until the February deadline and see if you can't convince the Democrats to actually be patriots and not obstructionists. We've done our job.
John Fleming responded to the Senate Republicans in a similar vein:
Our bill is our bill. This is what we passed, and this is what we expect you to pass. So get it done.
Bradley Byrne, after two Republican senators (who, last year, were House members) had addressed their former House colleagues:
They explained to us how the Senate process works.... From this House member's perspective, and I think that I reflect the vast majority of the members of our conference, the Senate needs to do its job. Period.
Republican senators see things differently, of course. Senator Lindsey Graham chimed in:
Clearly the D.H.S. bill, as constructed, is not going to get 60 votes. So we would urge the House to do something new.
Mitch McConnell is singing a similar tune:
I think it's clear we can't go forward in the Senate, unless you all have heard something I haven't. So the next move obviously is up to the House.
John Boehner, of course, had a different take on things:
The House has done its job. It's time for the Senate to do their work.
After a few more weeks of increasing bitterness between House Republicans and Senate Republicans, we will then experience one of those "midnight is approaching" moments, during which (sooner or later) either McConnell or Boehner will throw up their hands and just go ahead and pass the clean bill. "The math was against us," they will say, "therefore it was impossible to move the Republican bill." Since they've already laid their marker down on not shutting the department down, they will be forced to pass the clean bill. This will pass with a huge Democratic vote, and the votes of several Republicans who feel uneasy about the whole Tea Party strategy in the first place. Then the blame game will begin anew among Republicans.
If I were to make a bet, I would put my money on Mitch McConnell blinking first. Probably late afternoon of the day of the deadline, McConnell will let the Senate vote on the clean bill, and send it over to the House. There are many Senate Republicans who will be extremely vulnerable in the 2016 election (because they represent solid-blue states), so they've got more of a motivating factor to break the logjam. Boehner will oh-so-reluctantly bring the Senate bill up for a vote, and it will pass the House with (again) most Democrats and a handful of Republicans voting for it.
No matter how much ranting and raving we're in store for (from both McConnell and Boehner) over the next few weeks, the outcome seems pretty certain. Democrats are simply not going to "get up off their ass" and become Republicans. Republicans can bloviate about those dastardly, intransigent Democrats all they like (which I'm guessing will be "a whole lot"), but the real viciousness is going to be reserved for the "House Republicans versus Senate Republicans" battle. Either McConnell or Boehner is going to eventually cave first, and thus bear the brunt of all the scapegoating from the Tea Partiers. The only real question which remains is who will blink first.
-- Chris Weigant
Cross-posted at The Huffington Post
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
Fair Warning For All Readers:
I am coming down with the flu. My wife just went through this, so I will likely be out of action at some point for the next week or so. I am going to try my hardest to at least get Friday's FTP column out, but at this point can't even promise that much. And there will likely be a few re-run columns as well.
So, just to warn everyone that new columns will be intermittent for the next few days. My apologies for this, in advance.
-CW
Very best wishes for a speedy recovery to you both!
When Bush was President it was also "patriotic" to give the President whatever he wanted with Republicans claiming Democrats needed to get on board.
When Republicans win elections they have "mandates" to dictate policy. They even have "mandates" to dictate Presidential policy when they lose the Presidency but win Congress. And when Republicans lose elections they have a "mandate" as the opposition party to dictate policy.
Republicans simply claim, under any circumstances, that they have, not simply a right, but an obligation to impose their will on everyone. No matter what the outcome of elections.
Votes, and the democratic process, don't matter to Republicans. Nothing matters to Republicans except getting their way. They believe only their opinions count. That the purpose of elections is to empower Republicans, and any election that doesn't is invalid.
That's why compromise is anathema to them. It's why lying and hypocrisy are second nature to them. They believe that they've a right to do whatever it takes to get their way. That they've a right to impose their will on others whether others agree or not. That gaming the system is the system.
Republicans have been proving for years how hypocritical, dangerously self-deluded, and willfully out of touch with reality they are. Proving how little they care about Democracy or anyone's rights but their own
It's why Republicans believe that blocking every Democratic initiative for six years isn't "obstruction." But Democrats failing to support a Republican proposal is.
Sorry ta hear your not feeling well, CW...
Hurry up and get well..
Michale
Republicans simply claim, under any circumstances, that they have, not simply a right, but an obligation to impose their will on everyone. No matter what the outcome of elections.
That's what the people who voted them in WANT them to do...
It's their job...
I think it's admirable, especially when you consider how badly Democrats violate the will of the people over and over and over again...
Republicans have a job to do. And it's NOT to please Democrats or those who are enslaved by the Democrat ideology...
It's really that simple...
I mean, it's not as if Republicans are betraying their country for Al Qaeda as Democrats did in the Bush years...
Michale
That's why compromise is anathema to them. It's why lying and hypocrisy are second nature to them.
Choked on a little diet coke on this one..
Yea, Democrats are ALWAYS about Compromise..
Democrats NEVER lie and NEVER are hypocritical about anything..
:^/
Democrats idea of compromise is, "Do it our way and we'll THINK about what you want"
As for lying??
"If you like your health plan and your doctor, you can keep them. PERIOD"
and
"I welcome the debate on domestic surveillance"
As for Hypocrites?? Oh, my where to start..
CITIZENS UNITED was a grave threat to our democracy.. Until Democrats realized they could use it to their advantage.. Then they embraced it with gusto...
There is simply not a single charge that can be leveled at Republicans that does not ensnare Democrats as well..
NOT... A... SINGLE... CHARGE....
Michale
McConnell (RINO-KY) is meaner than cat shit, but he's also a big liar and an empty threatener. He's not stuck and the Orange One (RINO-OH) knows it. MM said that the Dems would regret going nuclear, but it doesn't look that way to date. MM should stop being a traitorous squish.
Actually, Michale,
No. Dictating policy is not their job. They are supposed to be representing The People, ALL people in their districts, by negotiating for them and representing their interests.
Republicans deciding that they represent only people who agree with them, and who, presumably, voted for them, is not "doing their job", its abusing their authority and violating a public trust.
Choosing which people get represented, particularly when the selection process consists of "those who agree with me" is not representing The People. Its representing yourself, and no one else.
The job of representatives is to listen to the arguments, evaluate the facts, and make objective decisions in the best interest of those they are charged with representing. It is not to ignore facts and impose your own personal agenda and prejudices, or the agenda and prejudices of the people giving you money, on everyone else because you think that's what's best for you personally, and because you think that you can.
Its Republican lack of integrity that's the problem. You Wingers don't believe in democracy. You don't believe people have a right to self-determination. To manage their own affairs. You believe in tyranny pretending to be democratic. You believe that you have a right to determine how everyone lives, that you get to decide what people can and cannot do with their lives. Simply because you think you can get away with it.
You all believe that might makes right. You don't think you're abusing power. You don't think that you can abuse power. You think that if you can do something you've every right to do it. That you're justified in doing whatever it takes to get your way.
Of course, only you, gave this "right." If Obama, Democrats, or anyone you disagree with, can, in any way, be accused of refusing to negotiate, failing to compromise, or act in a way that you can construe as bad faith, or abuse of power, you all yell and whine like babies about the unfairness of it all! how undemocratic it is! how unilateral and lacking in bipartisanship!
They're all "do as I say, not as I do" when they're in the minority. And all "I'm the Decider™," I've a right to do whatever I want, when they're in the majority.
They're just selfish self-centered self-delusional hypocritical liars, Michale. They are most definitely not driven by ethics, democracy, or morality. They certainly are NOT doing their jobs.
"McConnell (RINO-KY) is meaner than cat shit, but he's also a big liar and an empty threatener. He's not stuck and the Orange One (RINO-OH) knows it. MM said that the Dems would regret going nuclear, but it doesn't look that way to date. MM should stop being a traitorous squish."
Lol JFC,
Let's not tell them eliminating the filibuster and winning a vote won't override a veto.
I'm all for Republicans demonstrating their unprincipled partisanship, cluelessness, and abject inability to govern, as often and as obviously as possible. Who knows?! Maybe one day even their base will get a clue!
We take all the help we can get. If Republicans want to hold Obama's feet to the fire, and provide him with cover on his vetos, its fine by me!
They're just selfish self-centered self-delusional hypocritical liars, Michale. They are most definitely not driven by ethics, democracy, or morality.
Yea, they are called politicians..
Democrats are the same way...
They certainly are NOT doing their jobs.
Sure they are.. They are doing EXACTLY what the people who voted them into office WANT them to do...
That is why the GOP was overwhelmingly voted into office over Democrats this past mid-term election..
They whole WILL OF THE PEOPLE thing really sucks when it's against the agenda of the Left, eh? :D
Michale
I mean, ya can rant and rave and ridicule the GOP til the cows come home..
But what ya simply CANNOT deny is that the American people, either by commission or omission, OVERWHELMINGLY, UNEQUIVOCALLY and DEFINITIVELY gave the GOP their biggest majority in almost a century...
Strictly from a "the will of the people" standpoint, that's a pretty damning indictment of the Leftist agenda and a pretty large stamp of approval on the GOP agenda...
Michale
Strictly from a "the will of the people" standpoint, that's a pretty damning indictment of the Leftist agenda and a pretty large stamp of approval on the GOP agenda...
Of course, no one here wants to look at things this way..
But facts ARE facts..
If anyone has an alternate explanation for the facts... ALL the facts.....
"I'm all ears..."
-Ross Perot
:D
Michale
"I mean, ya can rant and rave and ridicule the GOP til the cows come home..
But what ya simply CANNOT deny is that the American people, either by commission or omission, OVERWHELMINGLY, UNEQUIVOCALLY and DEFINITIVELY gave the GOP their biggest majority in almost a century..."
Which in no way changes the fact that their oath of office, their responsibility, is to represent the people in their district, all if them, not just those that voted for them. Record low voter turnout doesn't change that. It isn't only the winning side that's entitled to representation. We vote for who represents us, not whether we are represented.
Like all the other facetious Winger lies "justifying" their bad faith and abuse of power, hypocritical, dishonest, irrelevant excuses are not "mandates." As always, the bottom line with you Wingers boils down to "we've a right to do as we please because we can." You sure as Hell don't accept Obama's right to do as he pleases, no matter how many elections he wins! Or by how much!
Nothing about the GOP having "their biggest majority in almost a century" gives them the right to abuse their position. And it is not something Democrats do too when they are in office.
Obama bent over backwards trying to compromise and negotiate with Republicans over healthcare reform. He accepted a plan that's basically entirely Republican initiatives. And because Obama actually accepted their proposals Republicans suddenly repudiated and condemned their own proposals--just to spite Obama.
Now Republicans have been claiming Democrats passing "Obamacare" without Republican support as The Crime Of The Century for over six years. They don't give a damn about Democrats having had a majority giving them a right to do whatever they pleased.
You wingers just claim whatever you find convenient to claim justifies whatever you want to do. You're simply liars.
I can't even imagine what kind of scorched earth campaign you Wingers would wage if Democrats really did behave the way that Republicans do! Look how over-the-top you've all been in your faux outrage over Obamacare! If you'd actually had legitimate reasons for complaint...?! You'd be secession and impeachment advocates 24/7 since 2009! You'd be calling for a new American Revolution! You're it far from it even now! You certainly wouldn't give a damn about any Democratic majority giving them a "mandate."
No, Michale. Your Winger sophistry is just lies.
No, Michale. Your Winger sophistry is just lies.
Awww, and you were doing sooo good for a while there.. :(
Michale
They don't give a damn about Democrats having had a majority giving them a right to do whatever they pleased.
So, let me see if I understand this correctly..
When DEMOCRATS have the majority they can "do whatever they please"...
But when REPUBLICANS have the majority, then they MUST follow the Democrat agenda...
Once again, your political bigotry is laid bare for all to see...
Record low voter turnout doesn't change that.
Failure to make a choice IS making a de-facto choice..
Those people who DIDN'T vote were tacitly voting..
By commission or OMISSION, the American people gave the GOP the biggest majority in almost a century..
PLUS the American people overwhelmingly put the GOP in charge in State races..
No matter HOW you want to spin it, the American people passed judgement on the Demorat Party agenda and found it wanting..
"These are the facts.. And they are undisputed."
-Kevin Bacon, A FEW GOOD MEN
I can't even imagine what kind of scorched earth campaign you Wingers would wage if Democrats really did behave the way that Republicans do!
You don't HAVE to 'imagine' it..
We're LIVING it..
Economy in the toilet after six years of Democrat "help"...
The middle class royally screwed while the rich get richer. All from Democrat "help"...
Our prestige and respect around the world in the gutter after Democrat "help"...
This country plainly sucks right now.
All because of Obama and the Democrats...
"These are the facts.. And they are undisputed."
-Kevin Bacon, A FEW GOOD MEN
Michale
Sorry to hear about your illness, CW. Hope you feel better soon!
Here in Ohio we're seeing something very interesting as the Democratic Party has basically been gerrymandered out of power.
What's happening is that a bit of a divide has basically reproduced itself within the Republican Party. The business Republicans hate the nut jobs.
Why? Because it seems like they just want to destroy everything. Literally. They're so angry about "the gubmint" or whatever that they can't stop when the gubmint is them. And they've managed to block the building of a major bridge in Southern Ohio.
In some ways I guess it's amusing because if you wind people up at the government, is it any surprise that you can't stop them even once you've beaten back the mean "liberals"?
However, it's also depressing as it looks like America is an effin' mess. How is it we got to the point where patriotism somehow came to mean raging against anything 'gubmint?
Especially when the government is us. Crazy doesn't even begin to describe it.
-David
This country plainly sucks right now.
All because of Obama and the Democrats...
OK, OK... Not ALL because of Obama and the Democrats..
97% because of Obama and the Democrats... :D
Michale
However, it's also depressing as it looks like America is an effin' mess.
Yer absolutely right!!
We completely agree!!
America *IS* an effin' mess...
They only thing we disagree about is who is at fault..
Since Democrats have been in power for 6 years, the blame naturally falls on them..
Just as it fell on Republicans when THEY were in power for 6 years and the kaa-kaa hit the fan...
Can't have it both ways...
Michale
The national level actually looks pretty good right now. Here in the midwest where the GOP gerrymandered control in 2010, it's not quite as rosy.
To pay for handouts to wealthy corporations, the GOP is not only gutting schools, but also raising local taxes like property taxes and sales taxes.
From a commenter in Indiana:
Wisconsin is facing a $2+ billion deficit because of Scott Walker's tax cuts.
Kansas is also facing massive deficits and cuts.
And here in Ohio, our governor just proposed shifting more of the costs off of the extremely wealthy and onto everyone else.
Literally, there are no Democrats at the state level. At least none with any power. We're not quite as bad as Indiana but only because John Kasich still has presidential hopes.
I'm afraid what our country would look like under GOP rule.
-David
The national level actually looks pretty good right now.
Which is it??
America is an effin' mess or "looks pretty good right now"??
I mean, if you want to concentrate on the minitueia, I am sure we can go tit for tat as far as who screwed up what.
But if you want to look just at the national scene, if things are looking pretty good, then obviously the GOP obstructionism ya'all complained (incessantly, I might add) about must not have been that big a deal...
The point is, however, that Democrats have had 6 years and what have they done??
Jobs suck, wages are stagnant, the middle class is on the skids and the rich are getting richer...
But hay, we have TrainWreckCare.. A law so moronically assembled that it will likely be gutted by the SCOTUS decision..
If your concern is the middle class, then you simply HAVE to concede that the Democrat Party has failed and failed miserably...
Michale
"So, let me see if I understand this correctly..
When DEMOCRATS have the majority they can "do whatever they please"...
But when REPUBLICANS have the majority, then they MUST follow the Democrat agenda..."
No. That's not what I said. Democrats tried to include Republicans and negotiate with them. Republicans refused to be a part of ANYTHING. Refused to negotiate. Refused to compromise. So Democrats had no choice but to act unilaterally. And Republicans are still screaming over the ONE time Democrats acted without them, not because Dems ignored Republicans, but because Republicans refused to participate.
I'm saying no party has a right to just do as they please. And that its only Republicans who claim that they do have a right to do as they please. Democrats didn't try to just do as they please and freeze out Republicans.
There are plenty of problems with both parties. But this one is uniquely Republican. It wasn't Dems who invented the "Hastert Rule." It isn't Dems who crow about imaginary mandates, ideological purity, litmus tests, and how totally unacceptable it is to compromise.
That's all wingnutery. Republicans are the ones claiming that ignoring facts and science to pander to extremists is doing the job of an elected official. That winning office bestows a mandate to do as you please. It's not. And Democrats don't do or say that.
I mean, if you want to concentrate on the minitueia, I am sure we can go tit for tat as far as who screwed up what.
Governor of my old stomping grounds, Oregon for example?? :D
Michale
That winning office bestows a mandate to do as you please. It's not. And Democrats don't do or say that.
You REALLY have got to be kidding here..
Do you want me to post all the links where Democrats claimed they had a mandate?? :D Hell, I just have to go back to 2012... :D
Michale
"I'm afraid what our country would look like under GOP rule."
We've already seen that. It looks like King George W - huge terrist attacks on the homeland, pointless debt-fueled oil wars, lots of golfing and vacation days, economic depression, Big Theocratic Government intrusion into America's sex lives and reproductive decisions, non-response to devastating hurricanes, doughnut holes, and welfare for the 1%.
Even a super human dictator like Barack Obama cannot be expected to clean up a mess as huge as Chimpy left behind. It's amazing that everything is so much better now.
Even a super human dictator like Barack Obama
WOW...
First a "terrorist" and now a "dictator"...
Glad to see us'all can find some common ground.. :D
Michale
Even a super human dictator like Barack Obama cannot be expected to clean up a mess as huge as Chimpy left behind.
Of course, you fail to mention that it as a Democrat Congress that had a hand in that mess, eh??
Like I always said.. When it's a Dem Congress and a GOP POTUS, the POTUS is always at fault..
But when it's a Dem POTUS and a GOP Congress...
YEP... It's the Congress that's at fault..
Just like when the GOP is in charge, they are to blame for all the problems.
When the Dems are in charge, the GOP is STILL to blame for all the problems.
I wish ya'all could step outside your ideological skin and see how utterly ridiculous it all sounds.. :D
Michale
"Like I always said.. When it's a Dem Congress and a GOP POTUS, the POTUS is always at fault..
But when it's a Dem POTUS and a GOP Congress...
YEP... It's the Congress that's at fault..
Just like when the GOP is in charge, they are to blame for all the problems.
When the Dems are in charge, the GOP is STILL to blame for all the problems."
Who's at fault doesn't depend on what party gas Congress/POTUS. And who's at fault doesn't depend on who's in office during a problem. Who's at fault depends on who CAUSED the problem.
That's why you Wingers keep lying about Democrats being "at fault" for inheriting two failed wars, a trashed economy, an unsustainable deficit, a recession, a financial sector collapse, and record unemployment FROM REPUBLICANS. Instead of the Republican POTUS and Congress that caused the problems.
You Wingers like to pretend that "fault" is inherited just like the problems are. It is not. Neither the Dem POTUS nor the Dem Congress caused problems. They did nothing but improve the situation. While Republicans not only caused the problems, they did nothing as a minority party to help solve the problems, made solving problems more difficult and less effective by insisting on even more tax cuts for the rich and austerity measures.
You ignore the actions of Republican POTUS and Congress alike, because you want to cover up culpability, not expose it when Republicans are at fault. That's why you use irrelevant metrics and attribute fault based on inference and association rather than actions and causation.
Being in charge of recovery makes you responsible for for the solution of a problem, not the creation of it. It does not make you "at fault" for it. You've been lying for six years trying to pin the fault for Republican created disasters on the Democrats who've had to clean up the messes.
We blame Republicans because Republicans, not Democrats caused the problems you're so desperately trying to pin on Democrats. When Democrats cause a problem then they get the blame. No one blamed Republicans when the Health Exchange website wasn't working. Everyone blamed Obama, and the Democrats, because that was their fault, they caused it.
The only one who always blames one party is you, Michale. You try to blame Democrats for everything, as if the two months Democrats controlled Congress and POTUS is what caused all our problems. You try to blame the President, when he's a Democrat, for the legislation Republicans in Congress author claiming "the President signed it!"
So f--Ing what! The President deferring to Congress dies not mean that the President is responsible for legislation. That is the exclusive purview of Congress. The President only gets a veto if he finds it unconstitutional or completely unacceptable. He does not own legislation simply because he signed it. The President has to lobby Congress for legislation and have Congress craft legislation according to Presidential requests to be responsible for it. POTUS is only responsible for Presidential actions not Congressional actions.
But you claim POTUS is at fault for everything Congress does, unless POTUS is Republican, in which case he's not at fault for ANYTHING. Because YOU claim Democrats are at fault for everything. Always.
Who's at fault doesn't depend on what party gas Congress/POTUS. And who's at fault doesn't depend on who's in office during a problem. Who's at fault depends on who CAUSED the problem.
Yes, that's how NORMAL people think..
But those who are enslaved by political Ideology??
It's ALWAYS just ONE PARTY's fault...
And, in the case of most everyone here, it's ALWAYS the GOP's fault...
But you claim POTUS is at fault for everything Congress does, unless POTUS is Republican, in which case he's not at fault for ANYTHING. Because YOU claim Democrats are at fault for everything. Always.
That is simply not factually accurate..
I have heaped PLENTY of blame on the GOP...
What have you blamed Obama and the Democrats for??
NUTTIN.... ZERO.... ZILCH.... NADA.....
"These are the facts.. And they are undisputed."
-Captain 'Smilin' Jack Ross, A Few Good Men
Michale
"I have heaped PLENTY of blame on the GOP...
What have you blamed Obama and the Democrats for??"
Lol
I, and everyone else criticized Obama for the health exchange website and VA debacles. Although I didn't criticize the website much. It east much of a problem. But those were clearly administrative issues on Obama's watch. I've not criticized Democrats for anything else because I've nothing to criticize them for.
There have been no major issues caused by Obama ir the Democrats. There's been slow but steady progress on the major issues since the day that Democrats took office. The innumerable faux scandals you've been so eager to criticize Obama and Democrats for never materialized.
You seem to think that Obama and the Democrats just HAVE to be criticized. Which, again illustrates YOUR blind partisanship, not mine. Just because Bush and Republicans totally screwed up doesn't mean Democrats have to screw up as well. They don't have to get criticized as well just to balance out the well earned derision heaped on Republicans!
Just because you're still insisting Benghazi is an issue, in spite of six investigations finding no specific culpability in Obama or Democrats. And you're still claiming half a dozen other baseless disproven supposed scandals and nonexistent conspiracies have merit when they clearly don't. Doesn't mean that I must jump on board the crazy train too!
As usual what you claim as logic is just circular reasoning, hypocrisy, and bias on your part. Not proof of blind partisanship on anyone else's part!
Take the current impasse in the Senate..
When Democrats were the majority, they couldn't get anything done because of Republican obstructionism.. Everything is the Republican's fault..
But when it's DEMOCRATS who are being obstructionist and Republicans can't get anything done, then everything is STILL the Republican's fault..
It's simply amazing..
No matter WHAT happens, no matter WHO does what, in Weigantia, everything is STILL the fault of the Republicans...
Now, just step outside the political ideology and think about that logically and rationally..
Doesn't that sound just a tad whacked???
Think about how it would sound if ya'all were explaining this to a person from Alpha Centauri who has absolutely no concept of political partisanship..
How would it look to them when Group D unfailingly and without ANY cognizance of reality blames Group R for ALL the ills of a country.. And, even more incredibly, Group D takes ALL the credit for any and all good that has been done...
Alpha Centauri alien would think to themselves, "These earth people are totally whacked in the head..."
The sheer mind-bending unreality of what ya'all claim simply cannot be logically or rationally processed...
Michale
There have been no major issues caused by Obama ir the Democrats.
Thank you for proving my point so perfectly...
Everything is the Republicans fault..
Democrats are as pure as the driven snow...
Michale
There have been no major issues caused by Obama ir the Democrats.
The families of the men killed at Benghazi would consider that a "major issue"... But they don't matter because the probably didn't vote for Obama so they got what they deserved anyways...
What's so sad is that seems to be the thought process around here..
If they don't vote Democrat, they aren't real Americans anyways. Who cares if they are killed defending the ideals of this country...
Nice attitude... :^/
Michale
I am also constrained to point out that we went into Libya under false pretenses...
Something the Left slammed Bush incessantly for, but is completely silent with the current Administration..
Funny how that is, eh?? :^/
I saids it befores and I'll says it agains...
There ain't nothing you can blame on the Right that the Left isn't also guilty of...
Michale
"The families of the men killed at Benghazi would consider that a "major issue"... But they don't matter because the probably didn't vote for Obama so they got what they deserved anyways...
What's so sad is that seems to be the thought process around here.."
And Bush caused 9/11?! Because he was a lot more culpable than Obama was for Benghazi.
Congress, specifically the Republicans in Congress, reduced the budget for embassy security. That means, that by law the President's State Department had to reduce embassy security by order of the Republican Congress.
That's why Republicans get blamed by me. Because they CAUSE our problems. You keep wanting to place fault on Obama simply for being President. That's just bias. That's just partisan.
You Wingers aren't speaking for the families of Benghazi victims. You're just trying to exploit them for partisan gain. That's a "thought process" that's despicable, not merely "sad."
And Republicans were criticized for obstruction for their pattern of preventing ANY votes on ANY matter that wasn't "must pass" or a Republican issue. They "obstructed" the regular order of business. Democrats have been doing no such thing.
Now, all of a sudden, you are claiming if the majority of Democrats vote "nay" on a bill that that is "obstruction." And that its the same thing Democrats complained of Republicans doing. It isn't, and it isn't. As always, you simply lie.
As for Libya, exactly when did Obama's Secretary of State make a false case to the UN? When did Obama make false claims to justify his response to Libya in an address to the American people?
The Left slammed Bush for standing up on his hind legs and orchestrating a deliberate campaign to deceive the American people, and the rest of the world, in order to justify entering Iraq under a false flag on false pretenses.
Where is your proof, Michale, that Obama did the same thing with Libya?
You Wingers aren't speaking for the families of Benghazi victims. You're just trying to exploit them for partisan gain. That's a "thought process" that's despicable, not merely "sad."
And how is that any different than Democrats using the dead from the Iraq war for their own partisan agenda??
Where is your proof, Michale, that Obama did the same thing with Libya?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/listen-tapes-libya-clinton/
Of course, you won't admit it..
In your mind, everything is the fault of Republicans..
Democrats are as pure as the driven snow...
Michale
Again, I ask you to take a step back and simply look at things politically agnostically...
What are the odds that EVERYTHING bad in this country is because of Republicans... And EVERYTHING good is because of Democrats...
The odds are simply astronomical that this would be reality...
Yet it is THIS "reality" that makes up the totality of the arguments here...
EVERYTHING bad is because of Republicans..
EVERYTHING good is because of Democrats...
Someone... ANYONE please tell me the logic of such a position....
Michale
Michale,
You make accusations you have to back them up with facts, not straw-men. You don't have facts. Your claims are lies. No one here is blaming Republicans for everything. Granted, Republicans screw up so much, so often, and so spectacularly, it might almost seem like everything. And no one here is claiming nothing is ever the fault of Democrats.
As usual, you're just creating a straw-man. You lie and claim others are saying things that no one has ever said and then try to ridicule people over the absurdity of the words you put in their mouths. It's a red-herring.
You Wingers always have to be the victim. You always substitute your fantasies for reality. You always project your own misbehavior onto everyone else. And you always claim your baseless lies and conspiracy theories are "proven" based on unsubstantiated claims that everyone agrees with you, faulty logic, hypocrisy, misrepresentations, and baseless and disproven conspiracy theory opinion pieces by your fellow travelers.
And while you always demand others prove their claims. You insanely pretend that you get to reserve the right to just summarily refuse to accept proof, and unilaterally declare your own position confirmed, without having ever proffered any proof yourself. When proof is demanded of you, to back up your claims with facts, you always, ALWAYS! respond with straw-men, misrepresentations, or excuses. Never with factual evidence. Because you can't. You're just lying and parroting the lies of others. You're all about deceit, deception, denial, and partisanship.
<I.You make accusations you have to back them up with facts, not straw-men. You don't have facts. Your claims are lies. No one here is blaming Republicans for everything. Granted, Republicans screw up so much, so often, and so spectacularly, it might almost seem like everything. And no one here is claiming nothing is ever the fault of Democrats.
Fine...
Prove me wrong....
Give me an issue where Democrats are wrong and Republicans are right...
Give me an issue where Democrats totally scrooed the pooch and Republicans were on the right side of it..
You can't do it...
Michale
And while you always demand others prove their claims. You insanely pretend that you get to reserve the right to just summarily refuse to accept proof, and unilaterally declare your own position confirmed, without having ever proffered any proof yourself. When proof is demanded of you, to back up your claims with facts, you always, ALWAYS! respond with straw-men, misrepresentations, or excuses. Never with factual evidence. Because you can't. You're just lying and parroting the lies of others. You're all about deceit, deception, denial, and partisanship.
And yet, YOU are the ONLY one to make such claims...
Why do you think that is??
Because you are the only one who doesn't accept the facts...
Michale
Give me an issue where Democrats totally scrooed the pooch and Republicans were on the right side of it..You can't do it...
Hey, Michale ... would you like me to tell you why that can't be done?
:-)
Hey, Michale ... would you like me to tell you why that can't be done?
:-)
hehehehe
I *KNOW* why it can't be done..
Because no one here believes that it's ever happened... :D
Michale
I *KNOW* you knew that. :)
Like I said, Michale,
Still making childish catch twenty-two demands that others prove things to you or they, according to you, prove you are right. While you refuse to provide proof of your own that you aren't lying.
You must have been a great debater as a two year-old. But I'm an adult. And you are simply a liar. Your desperate attempts at misdirection and infantile logic do not impress.
"Fine...
Prove me wrong....
Give me an issue where Democrats are wrong and Republicans are right...
Give me an issue where Democrats totally scrooed the pooch and Republicans were on the right side of it..
You can't do it...
Michale"
I demand that you provide proof of your baseless attacks again Democrats and Obama, and you make excuses instead. Then demand in turn that I either prove you are right or, so you claim, I prove that you are right.
I realize that you're an idiot. And that you're accustomed to dealing with Wingers, who are idiots. But not everyone is an idiot like you.
I am not an idiot. Take your stupid challenge and shove it up your ass.
I realize that you're an idiot. And that you're accustomed to dealing with Wingers, who are idiots. But not everyone is an idiot like you.
Thank you for proving my point..
You CLAIM:
No one here is blaming Republicans for everything. Granted, Republicans screw up so much, so often, and so spectacularly, it might almost seem like everything. And no one here is claiming nothing is ever the fault of Democrats.
Yet you can't back up your claim with facts...
And when called on your total BS claims, you resort to nothing but personal attacks..
Thank you for proving my point..
You are the one without facts...
Michale
"Yet you can't back up your claim with facts...
And when called on your total BS claims, you resort to nothing but personal attacks..
Thank you for proving my point..
You are the one without facts..."
Michale, you are a liar. I have repeatedly stated two things Democrats, not Republicans, are rightly blamed for, the health exchange website and the VA. You ignore them and keep telling the lie that Democrats are never blamed only Republicans.
And you've refused to prove your claims but hypocritically and dishonestly demand that I prove mine, when in fact I already have, repeatedly. You are simply lying.
You arrogantly and dishonestly demand, not just an example of Democrats being at fault, but praise for Republicans over Democrats. You claim that if I don't praise Republicans over Democrats it proves that I never criticize Republicans. Another lie. One has nothing to do with the other. And praising Republicans has nothing to do with the discussion. You're lying again.
And then you claim that my refusal of your dishonest irrelevant demand is proving your point, when the only one refusing to to provide proof is you. As always, you are projecting, and lying. It's what you do. It's all that you do.
The only point proved is that you are a liar, all the time, and everytime.
Michale, you are a liar. I have repeatedly stated two things Democrats, not Republicans, are rightly blamed for, the health exchange website and the VA. You ignore them and keep telling the lie that Democrats are never blamed only Republicans.
WOW...
Talk about low hanging fruit...
Stating the obvious is NOT blaming Democrats when blame is due...
Michale
Why not blame Democrats for stagnant Job Wages??
Why not blame Democrats for the fact that the middle class has gotten scrooed and the rich have gotten richer..
Blame Democrats for something MEANINGFUL, not some BS claim that no one in their right mind WOULDN'T blame Democrats for??
Michale
"Why not blame Democrats for stagnant Job Wages??
Why not blame Democrats for the fact that the middle class has gotten scrooed and the rich have gotten richer..
Blame Democrats for something MEANINGFUL, not some BS claim that no one in their right mind WOULDN'T blame Democrats for??"
Democrats haven't caused low wages. The Republicans did that by destroying unions, deregulating, under funding regulatory agencies, opposing the minimum wage, even trying to give business a legal right to discriminate.
Republicans have destroyed every means workers had of protecting themselves from unfair labor practices. Democrats are the only ones that have shown any interest in addressing low wages and protecting workers. So why should I blame Democrats for problems Republicans cause?
The middle-class have gotten screwed and the rich have profited because Republicans have spent the last fifty years making the middle class pay the taxes of the rich. "Trickle-down economics" has been taking money out of middle class pockets and Social Security and giving it to the wealthy in the form of tax cuts. Of course the rich gave gotten richer! Republicans have been giving them money for half a century! Why should I blame Democrats for what Republicans have done?
You are such a chronic liar that you're entirely predictable. First you lie claiming Democrats are never faulted, only Republicans. Now your complaining that Democrats aren't faulted for the national disasters caused by Republicans.
As I've always said your complaints about fairness ring hollow. You don't want "fair" your want "partisan." You want Democrats attacked and Republicans praised. Not because Republicans deserve it but because you are partisan. You're just lying when you complain of everyone blaming everything on Republicans. Just playing the victim card. Just trying to intimidate people into ignoring Republican culpability. Just trying to silence Republican critics.
You're simply lying. Its what you do. You're such a chronic, predictable liar that even when I describe exactly how this conversation will end, as I did in comment #41, with you lying about demanding proof, then falsely declaring your lies have been "proven". You still follow your usual pattern of lying, #42 and #49, exactly as I predicted. Summarily rejecting actual proof provided (#51), just as I said you always do (#41).
While you, yourself, never ever prove your own claims. Offering a rightwing opinion piece (#39) that purports to be "undercutting then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s primary argument for using the U.S. military to remove Moammar Gadhafi from power, which cast his country into chaos'," isn't proof of Obama lying like Bush to falsely embark on a war even if it proved true. And it isn't, in and of itself, proof of anything. It's an "opinion" piece, not proof. And an opinion that isn't even on point. Your "proof" is a misrepresentation, a lie.
You are simply a liar, Michale. A chronic liar. A predictable liar. And not even a good liar. You are simply a prolific liar. And a partisan liar.
Gotta add that Michale's latest Obama attack, trying to splash him with a ridiculous rightwing Hillary smear on Libyan intervention is a particularly ludicrous lie.
Suddenly Michale claims that attacking a known State sponsor of terrorism when, supposedly, there's "no specific evidence of an impending genocide in Libya in spring 2011" is the same as Bush "preemptively" attacking a State with no ties to terrorism on trumped up evidence.
That unanimous Senate support for Libyan intervention is the same as Bush's unilateral executive decision to evict UN inspectors and attack Iraq.
That unanimous Senate support for Libyan intervention makes intervention a Democratic Obama conspiracy.
That unanimous Senate support from Senators with access to the raw data and actual intelligence testimony, charged with making assessments independent of the Executive Branch is the same as the UN and public being misled by Bush with misrepresented selective data.
And that supposedly not having "specific evidence of an impending genocide" is the same as Bush having no evidence at all.--Because everyone knows that raising the bar as high as possible is the same as lowering the bar as much as possible.
Michale's attacks on Obama frequently parrot baseless winger conspiracy theories that are absurd on their face. Michale lies about Obama's actions being the same as Bush's. He lies about Democrats being the same as Republicans. And he lies about baseless winger conspiracy theories being proof that his lies aren't lies.
Michale, you are a liar. I have repeatedly stated two things Democrats, not Republicans, are rightly blamed for, the health exchange website and the VA.
But hay... I'll be yer huckleberry....
Point to me the comment you made that blamed Democrats and Obama for the TrainWreckCare website and for the VA...
Go ahead... PROVE to me that that you slammed Obama and the Democrats for that before I prompted you....
You can't, because it didn't happen.. :D
Michale
Lol,
Sorry Lucy, not in the mood to play football today!
Sorry Lucy, not in the mood to play football today!
Brave Sir Robin ran away...
Bravely ran away away..
When danger reared it's ugly head
He bravely turned his tail and fled...
-The Tale Of Sir Robin
:D
Just messin' with ya, Dan..
I get it. I really do... :D
Michale