Guest Author -- Donald Trump, The Apprentice Demagogue
In the online world, people get compared to Adolf Hitler so often that many years ago "Godwin's Law" was created to give a definition to the phenomenon. In politics, Hitler analogies usually aren't quite as frequent, but they are getting much more common these days. It's one thing to see this accusation hurled in an article's comments section, or even by a late-night comedian (trolling for some laughs), but what is new this year is hearing members of Donald Trump's own party comparing him to fascist leaders (as Meg Whitman recently did).
So when political science Professor Kenneth Janda asked if he could write a column making a more academic comparison (instead of just hurling insults), I thought it'd be a great idea. Janda is the Payson S. Wild Professor Emeritus of Political Science at Northwestern University, and he's both written a guest article here before and also been an interview subject (in the midst of the 2008 campaign).
Janda makes a pretty good case, drawing on historical data from Hitler's own political campaigns as well as quotes from Donald Trump during the past year.
-- Chris Weigant
Donald Trump, The Apprentice Demagogue
Donald Trump is clearly no Adolf Hitler. Trump does not preach Hitler's most hateful domestic policies, and Trump's foreign policy is not imperialist but isolationist. Trump's slogan, "American First," resembles "Deutschland über alles" ("Germany above all else") more in chauvinistic simplicity than evil intent. But it does underscore that Trump is, as Hitler was, a demagogue, appealing to voters' emotions and prejudices in order to win election.
Others observed similarities between the Trump and Hitler election campaigns quite early. They included Mexican president Enrique Peña Nieto, former Mexican president Vicente Fox, and former New Jersey Republican governor Christine Todd Whitman. Recently, major Republican donor and former California gubernatorial candidate, Hewlett-Packard C.E.O. Meg Whitman compared Trump to the fascist demagogues, Hitler and Mussolini. Now that Trump is the presumptive nominee of the Republican Party for President of the United States, we should inquire closely into Trump's and Hitler's electioneering.
Did Hitler even campaign in free elections before seizing power? His Nazi party, NSDAP, contested five parliamentary elections, winning 3 percent of the votes (ninth place) in 1928; 18 percent (second) in 1930; 37 percent (first) in July 1932; 33 percent (first) in November 1932; 44 percent (first) in March 1933. Over three elections spanning less than one year, NSDAP emerged as Germany's largest and most stable party.
Although Germany's incumbent Paul von Hindenburg defeated Hitler 53 to 37 percent in the April 1932 presidential election, Hindenburg was pressured to appoint Hitler as Chancellor and head of government. With great reluctance, the 84-year-old president complied on January 30, 1933. Controlling the government and banning opposition, NSDAP won all the seats in the November 1933 election. Hindenburg died in August 1934, after which Hitler declared himself head of state.
Let's examine what some historians wrote about Hitler's campaigns to gain power. I quote from three books: Richard J. Evans, The Coming of the Third Reich (2003); Ian Kershaw, Hitler (2008); and Laurence Rees, Hitler's Charisma (2012). These sources support ten similarities between Trump's 2016 campaign and Hitler's electioneering.
(1.) Hitler was underestimated by political observers at the start. Kershaw wrote: "[M]any contemporaries made a mistake in treating Mein Kampf with ridicule and not taking the ideas Hitler expressed there extremely seriously." (p. 149) Evans found that "political opponents on the left still found it impossible to take the Nazis' extremist rhetoric and bullying tactics on the street as anything other than evidence of their inevitable political marginality. They did not conform to the accepted rules of politics, so they could not expect to be successful." (p. 255)
Trump was not perceived as a "serious candidate" -- as Jeb Bush charged in the September 16 Republican primary debate. Trump replied: "I'm a businessman, did really well, really well, and Jeb, what I want to do is put that ability into this country to make our country rich again. And I can do that, and I'm not sure that anybody else in the group will be able to do that."
(2.) Hitler had political experience but no government experience. "Hitler had the advantage of being undamaged by participation in an unpopular government, and of unwavering radicalism in his hostility to the Republic. He could speak in language more and more Germans understood -- the language of bitter protest at a discredited system." (Kershaw: 206)
Trump lacks and denigrates government experience. He said at the February 13 primary debate: "I'm the only one on this stage that said, 'Do not go into Iraq. Do not attack Iraq.' Nobody else on this stage said that.... And I was in the private sector. I wasn't a politician, fortunately." Trump also responded to Greta Van Susteren on Fox News, "I think the people are tired of politicians, because again: all talk, no action, nothing gets done."
(3.) Hitler benefitted from economic hardships visited on the working class. "The most important precondition for Hitler's rise in popularity was the apparent failure of democracy in the face of economic crisis." (Rees: 57) While Hitler did not explain how he would improve the economy, "He presented a vision, a Utopia, an ideal: national liberation through strength and unity. He did not propose alternative policies, built into specific election promises." (Kershaw: 203)
Trump exploits fears of unemployment and economic insecurity. In the October 28 debate, Trump explained: "Yes, it's very simple.... We're going to bring jobs back from Japan, we're going to bring jobs back from China, we're going to bring, frankly, jobs back from Mexico.... We're going to bring jobs and manufacturing back. We're going to cut costs. We're going to save Social Security, and we're going to save Medicare."
(4.) Hitler offered no detailed programs for taxing and spending. NSDAP followers "had no idea of the aims of the party. But they were certain that the government was incapable and the authorities were squandering taxpayers' money. They were convinced 'that only the National Socialists could be the saviours from this alleged misery.'" (Kershaw: 192)
Trump says that budgetary salvation is easy. Asked on February 25 how he would cut the federal budget, he replied: "Waste, fraud and abuse all over the place. Waste, fraud and abuse. You look at what's happening with Social Security, look at what's happening with every agency, waste, fraud and abuse. We will cut so much, your head will spin."
(5.) Hitler was supremely confident in his judgments. "Hitler's analysis left no room for any doubt. He never appeared remotely undecided between possible options." (Rees: 27)
Trump makes bold claims backed by little evidence: Asked on August 6 for evidence that Mexico is sending criminals across the border, Trump answered: "Border Patrol, people that I deal with, that I talk to, they say this is what’s happening."
(6.) Hitler made promises to voters without explaining how he could fulfill them. Hitler "did not concern himself with practical realities, but with 'eternal truth', as the great religious leaders had done. The 'greatness' of the 'politician' lay in the successful practical implementation of the 'idea' advanced by the 'programmatist.'" (Kershaw: 157)
Trump does the same. Asked by Fox news commentator, Bill O'Reilly, on August 4 how he would get Mexico to pay for the wall he promised to build across the border, Trump replied: "I'm gonna say, 'Mexico, this is not going to continue, you're going to pay for that wall,' and they will pay for the wall."
(7.) Hitler was bluntly dogmatic. "There were no qualifications in what [Hitler] said; everything was absolute, uncompromising, irrevocable, undeviating, unalterable, final." (Rees: 171)
Trump "tells it like it is." Asked on August 6 about his disparaging comments about women's looks, Trump responded: "I think the big problem this country has is being politically correct. [APPLAUSE] I've been challenged by so many people, and I don't frankly have time for total political correctness. And to be honest with you, this country doesn't have time either."
(8.) Hitler exploited people's fears and prejudices. Kershaw wrote, "The more Hitler preached intolerance, force, and hatred, as the solution to Germany's problems, the more his audience liked it. He was interrupted on numerous occasions during these passages with cheers and shouts of 'bravo'." (Kershaw: 179)
Trump capitalizes on xenophobia. On December 7 his campaign called "for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what the Hell is going on." On December 15, CNN's Wolf Blitzer asked about banning Muslims and refugees fleeing ISIS, Trump replied: "...tens of thousands of people having cell phones with ISIS flags on them? I don't think so, Wolf. They're not coming to this country. And if I'm president and if Obama has brought some to this country, they are leaving. They're going. They're gone." [APPLAUSE]
(9.) Hitler enticed voters to view his policies as nondiscriminatory. Rees quoted one Nazi youth who said, "Racist is not the right word in my opinion." The youth preferred "a 'belief in natural orders' that was against 'multi-culturalism.'" (p. 58)
Trump reassuringly does not oppose all Mexican immigrants. Announcing his intention on June 16, 2015, to seek the Republican presidential nomination Trump said: "They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. [sic] They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."
(10.) Hitler promised to restore Germany's glory. Hitler promised a "new Reich that would rebuild Germany's economic strength and restore the nation to its rightful place in the world. This was a message that had powerful appeal to many who looked nostalgically back to the Reich created by Bismarck, and dreamed of a new leader who would resurrect Germany's lost glory." (Evans: 257)
Trump promises to make America "great again." On December 15, Trump said, in his closing statement: "Our country doesn't win anymore. We don't win on trade. We don't win on the military. We can't defeat ISIS.... If I'm elected president, we will win again. We will win a lot. And we're going to have a great, great country, greater than ever before."
German voters eventually succumbed to Hitler's demagoguery and hired him to govern them. Please remind me, did he manage to restore Germany's glory?
-- Kenneth Janda
Cross-posted at The Huffington Post
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
So, what you're saying is that Mr. Trump will not restore America's glory?
Seriously?
Perhaps it would be useful if we compare the relative standing in the world of Germany in 1933 and America in 2016 ...
Trump "tells it like it is."
He does, but only if "tells it like it is" means "lies a lot".
“It’s too bad that some of the young people that were killed over the weekend didn’t have guns, you know, attached to their hips, frankly, and you know where bullets could have flown in the opposite direction” - Big Orange
"When I said that if, within the Orlando club, you had some people with guns, I was obviously talking about additional guards or employees" - Big Orange
Spotted another potential parallel in the prologue:
Although Germany's incumbent Paul von Hindenburg defeated Hitler 53 to 37 percent in the April 1932 presidential election, Hindenburg was pressured to appoint Hitler as Chancellor and head of government. With great reluctance, the 84-year-old president complied on January 30, 1933.
Von Hindenburg was in office because he was the only right-wing conservative who could keep his party in control of the government. He loathed Hitler, but was finally persuaded to ally with him because he believed that Hitler 'could be controlled'. We all know how that turned out.
Is Paul Ryan the modern Hindenburg in this scenario? From Politico two days ago:
"Ryan framed his support for the presumptive nominee as the best way to ensure that his newly rolled-out slate of conservative policy proposals finds an ally in the White House. Ryan had hoped that those proposals, focusing on issues like poverty, national security and tax reform, would bring substance to the 2016 race. Thus far, Trump’s bluster has kept Ryan’s package of proposals from gaining much traction on the campaign trail."
(1.) Hitler was underestimated by political observers at the start.
So was Obama...
(2.) Hitler had political experience but no government experience.
Also applies to Obama
(3.) Hitler benefitted from economic hardships visited on the working class.
This one's a stretch, I admit. But it could also apply to Obama...
(4.) Hitler offered no detailed programs for taxing and spending.
Obama again...
(5.) Hitler was supremely confident in his judgments.
Dead on balls Obama...
(6.) Hitler made promises to voters without explaining how he could fulfill them.
Definitely Obama...
(7.) Hitler was bluntly dogmatic.
Obama's ideological slavery is well documented..
(8.) Hitler exploited people's fears and prejudices.
Couldn't be more Obama....
(9.) Hitler enticed voters to view his policies as nondiscriminatory.
It's like holding up a mirror to Obama...
(10.) Hitler promised to restore Germany's glory.
Exactly what Obama did in 2008....
With the utmost respect, Professor Janda, everything you have posted about Hitler can ALSO be applied to Obama...
And they can also be applied to Reagan and Lincoln... I bet I can even apply many of those traits to Hillary if I were so inclined..
Sometimes an inkblot is just an inkblot...
Michale
Liz,
Perhaps it would be useful if we compare the relative standing in the world of Germany in 1933 and America in 2016 ...
EXCELLENT point... :D
Although I am certain that those who are enslaved by Party ideology will find SOMETHING to make the comparison..
Michale
I have to admit, I am somewhat saddened..
I would NEVER have believed, in any of my CRAZIEST fantasies (and I have some CRAZY fantasies, trust me..) that the total entirety of Weigantia would so ecstatically embrace full on GODWINISM...
If there was EVER an indication that ya'all have gone totally over the shoals, this is it..
I mean, my gods people.. Ya'all complained about Obama Derangement Syndrome???
Your Trump Derangement Syndrome is 100 times worse...
I really have to fear for ya'all's sanity when Trump totally demolishes Hillary in the General..
Michale
LizM,
"Perhaps it would be useful if we compare the relative standing in the world of Germany in 1933 and America in 2016"
Drumpf says that we're living in Crippled America. Was Germany crippled? We're losers and not great anymore. Other countries (including Germany) have no respect for us and call us "Uncle Sucker".
Drumpf says that we're living in Crippled America. Was Germany crippled? We're losers and not great anymore. Other countries (including Germany) have no respect for us and call us "Uncle Sucker".
And who has crippled the US and played the US for fools????
Odumbo and the Democrats...
Michale
M -
Huh? Four comments is "the full weight of Weigantia?"
You squeeze of more posts in ten minutes, on a slow day!
In terms of oratorical style Hitler caressed his audience (commentators of the time noted that women swooned for Hitler). Mussolini strutted for his public.
Trump is more like Mussolini. Or Berlusconi.
None of the above were/are particularly good at fact checking.
M-
"I have some CRAZY fantasies, trust me."
On this point, I do.
"I have some CRAZY fantasies, trust me."
On this point, I do.
As well you should! :D heh
Michale
Orlando has barely had time to bury their dead and "friend of the LGBT community" Fuhrer Drumpf is meeting with christian taliban hate groups to plot a final solution for "the gays".
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/06/trump-to-meet-with-400-anti-lgbt-evangelists-one-week-after-claiming-to-be-a-friend-of-the-gay-community/
According to Federal Election Commission, Trump's campaign payed him for the use of his own airplanes, companies and properties. This is political masturbation, but at least Trump is paying somebody for services rendered.
Orlando has barely had time to bury their dead and "friend of the LGBT community" Fuhrer Drumpf is meeting with christian taliban hate groups to plot a final solution for "the gays".
And how is this any different than the Odumbo administration pushing a useless, dangerous and partisan gun control agenda after EVERY massacre even while the bodies are still warm...
Hypocrisy at it's finest...
Michale
According to Federal Election Commission, Trump's campaign payed him for the use of his own airplanes, companies and properties. This is political masturbation....
I think Hitler did that too!!!! :D
Michale
Huh? Four comments is "the full weight of Weigantia?"
I am not talking about just these last 4 comments.. I am talking about the hundreds of comments from the last year..
THAT is the "full weight of Weigantia"...
However, I'll be fair..
Do YOU feel that Hitler/Trump comparisons are fair and logical any more than Obama/Reagan/Lincoln comparisons are fair and logical??
Please.. No equivocation or saying it depends on what the definition of 'is' is...
A simple yes or no... Any equivocation is simply a YES...
Trump is more like Mussolini. Or Berlusconi.
So, that's a NO??
None of the above were/are particularly good at fact checking.
Neither is Obama...
Michale
Is this yet another guest author who isn't going to comment?
I mean, why bother guest authoring?
As a student of German history I know a thing or two about the rise of the NSDAP.
One of the scariest parallels I see is the roll of sheer bully-ism among Trump's supporters.
The Brownshirts routinely beat down anyone and everyone who tried to raise a protest to what was going on in the early days of the Nazis' rise to power.
Intimidation - fear of being physically hurt eventually led to people being afraid to speak up.
When the NSDAP achieved a majority in parliament they started showing up in uniform (which was illegal) and simply beat down any other members who tried to oppose them.
Pretty soon the way was wide open for the NSDAP agenda to be enacted.
As a student of German history I know a thing or two about the rise of the NSDAP.
One of the scariest parallels I see is the roll of sheer bully-ism among Trump's supporters.
The Brownshirts routinely beat down anyone and everyone who tried to raise a protest to what was going on in the early days of the Nazis' rise to power.
Intimidation - fear of being physically hurt eventually led to people being afraid to speak up.
When the NSDAP achieved a majority in parliament they started showing up in uniform (which was illegal) and simply beat down any other members who tried to oppose them.
Pretty soon the way was wide open for the NSDAP agenda to be enacted.
Liz,
Is this yet another guest author who isn't going to comment?
I mean, why bother guest authoring?
While follow up is really nice, I wouldn't want to lose Guest Authors just because they can't follow up.. :D
Michale
Fish,
One of the scariest parallels I see is the roll of sheer bully-ism among Trump's supporters.
So, let me see if I understand this right..
You see a scary parallel with the bully-ism of Trump's supporters..
But you DON'T see any scary parallel with the bully-ism from the Left Wingery???
Hmmmmmmmmm...
The Brownshirts routinely beat down anyone and everyone who tried to raise a protest to what was going on in the early days of the Nazis' rise to power.
How is that any different than the gay Trump supporter who was beat down by Hillary supporters???
Or all the other Trump supporters who were attack by Left Wingers???
I'm just trying to understand here...
Intimidation - fear of being physically hurt eventually led to people being afraid to speak up.
Some Gay Voters Say It's 'Dangerous' to Come Out for Trump
http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/lgbtrump-gay-men-voting-donald-trump-n594691
You mean, like that???
Michale
Fish,
Oh...
"WELCOME TO THE PARTY, PAL!!!"
-John McClane, DIE HARD
:D
Michale
Is this yet another guest author who isn't going to comment?
I mean, why bother guest authoring?
While follow up is really nice, I wouldn't want to lose Guest Authors just because they can't follow up.. :D
And, let's face it.. We can be a pretty intimidating bunch when a new author dips their toe the Pool Of Weigantia..
:D
Michale
Michale, what point do you think this guest author was making, since he doesn't seem inclined to offer that up himself?
Michale, what point do you think this guest author was making, since he doesn't seem inclined to offer that up himself?
The same point that all the Anti-Trump people are making..
Trump is going to be another Hitler so Americans shouldn't vote for him..
It's a hysterical scare-mongering point that has very little to do with reality...
It's a point I would expect to see from a Jerry Springer or a Rachel Maddow, not from a learned academic who has attained the title of Professor...
It's actually somewhat ironic... If you take JUST the personal traits and characteristics that Professor Janda lists and take away the Hitler references, what do you have??
A list of personal traits and characteristics that are GOOD traits to have.. Characteristics that make GOOD and STRONG leaders...
"Hell, Patton was a fanatic. - It's what made him great ..."
-Lt Zimmer, CRIMSON TIDE
Michale
Well, if that doesn't prompt a response, nothing will and he should cease posting as a guest author ... in my not so humble opinion, you understand. :)
Well, I dunno if I would go THAT far.. :D
In all fairness to Professor Janda, it's entirely likely that he has a real life.. :D And the commentary just came out last night..
It's possible he'll pop in and grace us with his presence to respond..
On the other hand, as I mentioned.. We're a pretty brutal crowd.. Definitely not one for the faint of heart... :D
Michale
So the FEC filings came out and show Trump has $1.3 million on hand (compared to Hillary's $41million) and that he's been using some of his campaign funds to pay off debts in his various businesses.
Previously we learned Trump has been taking a tax-writeoff for people in New York with incomes under $500,000/year.
To Professor Janda's point: apparently wanna-be "leaders" can get pretty far if they're simply willing and able to lie big enough. But like all pyramid schemes, eventually the crash comes, one way or another. Unlike Hitler we should get out of this one with no or minimal bloodshed.
On a human level Trump is quickly falling from being invincible to embarrassing. All of his schemes are becoming public knowledge and they aren't pretty. Of all the "greatest's" he's claimed for himself, it may be "greatest con man" will be the one that sticks.
Hey Chris: comment eaten!
I am actually more interested in Dr Fish's response on how he can count the "scary parallel" to Nazis of the Trump supporters yet completely ignore the REAL violence and assaults victimizing Trump supporters coming FROM the Left Wingery..
I mean, honestly... A Left Winger tried to ASSASSINATE Trump..
Yet Dr Fish, apparently, doesn't see ANY problem with THAT violence... THAT violence has absolutely NO comparison to the Nazis...
It's mind boggling...
"What is my boggle??"
-Wesley Snipes, DEMOLITION MAN
:D
Michale
To be sure, the Left had a surprising amount of culpability in the rise of Hitler.
For instance, in 1925, the German elections were very close. So close in fact, that in the first round, in March, no party emerged with a Majority. After the Social Democrats threw their support to the Catholic Centre party's candidate, William Marx, the Conservatives grew worried that their own candidate, Karl Jarre, was too dull to win and drafted Hindenburg, a Prussian war hero, to run as an Independent. It was widely understood that he would be the 'true' conservative in the race, and he immediately picked up the support of the right wing Bavarian People's Party.
Still, for all of Hindenburg's celebrity and 'base appeal', the centrist, Marx would have won that election, save for the fact that the far Left, in the form of the German Communist Party, refused to endorse Marx (yes, ironically), insisting that their candidate stay in the race to the end despite having no chance of winning it. That's how Ernst Thälmann became the Ralph Nader of 1925.
The point being that Hitler didn't rise to power based on good looks and snappy dialogue alone. He had help from a left that spent more time arguing with each other (for instance, a bitter dispute among them in 1929 over whether the unemployment insurance rate should be raised by a half percentage point or a full percentage point) than facing the true threat of the authoritarian right. To break the stalemate, the parliamentary leader of the Catholic Centrist Party, Brüning, agreed to a series of laws that gave the Chancellor, who was appointed by the President, the power to essentially rule by executive decree.
This is the point in the story where Hitler shows up. The table had already been set, he only had at that point, to get a seat at the table.
The point being, Trump wouldn't be such a Hitlerian threat had we, the people of the United States, not vested so much power in the Presidency that it could be used as a malevolent tool in the hands of the wrong actor. If we get out of this unscathed, I think it's a duty of the next generation to restore constitutional balance to the Republic. At the same time, we have to untie the knot that gerrymandering and plutocracy have pulled tight around the legislature's nuts, leaving that branch of government gridlocked and impotent, or worse, desperate for relief through extra-constitutional means.
If you are in the camp that sees this all in reverse, and aren't inclined toward authoritarian rule, consider that in either case the solution is the same: restore the balance of power and confidence in representative government.
To be sure, the Left had a surprising amount of culpability in the rise of Hitler.
I am not talking what the Left did in the 1930s..
I am talking about the violence and the bigotry and the assaults that the Left is committing in the here and now..
It's really strange (no, not really) how NO ONE wants to address that...
The point being, Trump wouldn't be such a Hitlerian threat had we, the people of the United States, not vested so much power in the Presidency that it could be used as a malevolent tool in the hands of the wrong actor.
And, who do we have to thank for so much power in the Presidency??
That's right. Odumbo...
If you are in the camp that sees this all in reverse, and aren't inclined toward authoritarian rule, consider that in either case the solution is the same: restore the balance of power and confidence in representative government.
And you expect that from Hillary!!!????
Shurley, you jest... :D
Michale
LizM -
Off-topic, but did you see Charlie Rose's interview with Joe Biden last night?
It was pretty excellent. He's the first person in months (or maybe "over a year") that talked about the Islamic State and Syria and Iraq and didn't sound like he had to refer to notes or anything.
His foreign policy experience and knowhow were on full display. If you didn't see it, find a video out on the web and wach it -- you'll thank me for the suggestion!
:-)
-CW
Oh, and a PS for everyone else -- comments caught in the spam filter have been restored, sorry for the delay...
Balthasar [33] -
Good analysis. From what I understand, the Catholic party was the key to the legislature essentially voting itself out of existence and handing all power to Hitler. That seems to have been the turning point that led to so much grief later. But, to be fair (as you pointed out), there was a lot of intimidation in the chamber when this vote happened.
Thanks for adding some details to the story...
-CW
CW - "Janda makes a pretty good case, drawing on historical data from Hitler's own political campaigns as well as quotes from Donald Trump during the past year."
I have to agree with CW. Prof. Janda provides 10 comparisons between the politics of Hitler and Trump. Each comparison is backed up by references. This is argument by means of evidence that can be checked and rebutted with opposing evidence. The usual debate of adults.
In comment 5, Michael makes a "yoinks and away" counter argument using the schoolyard technique of "I know Trump is, but so is Obama." Repeated 10 times. Specific examples of Obama acting like Hitler (or Trump for that matter), with citations? Oh my no, M's too busy writing his next comment. This is debate without the bother of supporting evidence.
Suppose M somehow wins his point. Trump = Obama = Hitler. Given that, vote for Trump? Why bother? Everything is equivalent. This is just calling people names. Nah-nah-nuh-nah-nah. Obama is Trump. Childish nihilism. S.O.P, but worth pointing it out now and again.
The old quote "Have you no decency sir" springs to mind. Guests won't want to visit or correspond if we act silly. That's sad.
TS,
As usual, you miss my point completely..
Why must you ALWAYS make things personally about me??
Specific examples of Obama acting like Hitler (or Trump for that matter), with citations?
Would it matter??
When I provide cite after cite after cite that matches EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE 10 POINTS with Odumbo, would you (or anyone else) say, "Ya know, Michale.. Yer right... Comparing Trump to Hitler IS ridiculous because the traits mentioned are so general in nature that they could apply to anyone.."
Would you?? Would anyone??
Of course not..
So, tell me.. Why should I bother???
The old quote "Have you no decency sir" springs to mind. Guests won't want to visit or correspond if we act silly.
No.. Guests won't want to visit or correspond if they see this is nothing but a USENET Flame War with everyone seeing how much they can insult the one guy who is not a ditto head...
Michale
Wow. The hate rally I referenced in [13] was cartoonishly evil. Transparently fake faither Bottle Blondie Drumpf actually questioned the authenticity of HilRod's mysterious Methodist religion in front of a bunch of homophobic Young Earthers. They ate it up like the zombie cult they are.
Good thing the Orange Menace got rid of Cory. Now he can stay on message.
Here I was hoping we could be impressive for our guest and have a commentary that DIDN'T include childish and immature personal attacks..
Silly me.. :^/
Michale
The old quote "Have you no decency sir" springs to mind. Guests won't want to visit or correspond if we act silly. That's sad.
Wow. The hate rally I referenced in [13] was cartoonishly evil. Transparently fake faither Bottle Blondie Drumpf actually questioned the authenticity of HilRod's mysterious Methodist religion in front of a bunch of homophobic Young Earthers. They ate it up like the zombie cult they are.
Good thing the Orange Menace got rid of Cory. Now he can stay on message.
And THAT is what passes for quality around there here parts???
Yer right, TS...
That's just sad.... :^/
Michale
TS,
I get it... I really do..
It's easier to just make immature personal attacks rather than address the facts...
Because if ya actually addressed the facts, it would prove the hypocrisy of your position...
Another commentary hijacked and made about Michale...
Well done.... :^/
Michale
To Professor Janda's point: apparently wanna-be "leaders" can get pretty far if they're simply willing and able to lie big enough.
"If you like your healthcare plan, you can keep your healthcare plan."
-Hussein Obama
But like all pyramid schemes, eventually the crash comes, one way or another.
Considering the mess that TrainWreckCare is, you are dead on ballz accurate, Paula...
Once again.. The *FACT* is there is not one attack you can level at Trump that doesn't apply to Obama...
Another FACT that no one can address...
Michale
Once again.. The *FACT* is there is not one attack you can level at Trump that doesn't apply to Obama...
that is factually incorrect.
just for starters:
https://youtu.be/xqsY33ggdk4
JL,
I am on a slow NET connection..
Can you sum it up???
Michale
I'll have to catch ya on the flip side..
It's my bedtime...
Michale
But before I address it, you'll have to concede that you were wrong about Israel and profiling..
Israel DOES profile muslims.. Just as I said they did..
Ni ni... Catch ya in the morning.. :D
Michale
i was not wrong about israel. israel profiles EVERYBODY. not just muslims, not just any group, they profile every single person who passes their borders, and don't let anyone go until they've been ruled out.
JL
CW- "Thanks for adding some details to the story..."
The thanks should really go to my research assistant, Wikipedia<, but the analysis was mine, so thanks for mentioning it.
I think the Professor is making the point that Trump isn't an anomaly, that his politics is a type of politics that was also practiced by A. Hitler, populist demagogue (and sure enough, if you look up 'demagogue' in Wikipedia, it lists all of the traits that the two have in common).
One thing that isn't listed is media. Radio was a new media platform in the 1920's, and Hitler was one of those rare characters, like Rush Limbaugh, who only has to be pointed toward a microphone and let loose. Hitler was defeated in part because radio could also be used to organize the resistance against him.
Joe McCarthy later used the new medium of Television to create dramatic images (like Hollywood stars testifying) that he could use to enhance his already dramatic insinuations of cultural subversion. He, too, was hoisted by his own petard in the form of a single dramatic television image, and the question (echoed in [37] by TheStig): "At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"
Trump is using the new multi-platform media environment and its 24 hour news cycle to his fullest advantage, organizing his followers and taking shots on twitter and leveraging the controversy he creates into billions of dollars worth of free media coverage.
Ironically, 'domesticating' Trump for general election purposes could take this advantage away from him. He would then find himself on Hillary's playing field - where she's had a two year head start developing media and funding infrastructure.
On the other hand, his unique media prowess was beginning to turn on him. He's nearly tied with her in most polls. He can do a big show in July (one of his specialties) and then sit back and let the Olympics take over. After that, more free media: the debates, and by then he's saved enough cash to unleash a punishing media blitzkrieg in October that could push him over the finish line by a nose.
Sidebar - this is a strategy for winning in timed Monopoly games: make your opponents think that you only hold crap, while quietly keeping them from attaining monopolies, and encourage them to undermine each other instead. At the last minute, flip over the properties you have and use the cash to win the game. If this were his plan, it would explain why Trump recently filed a financial statement that portrays his campaign as absurdly cash-strapped: he thinks that he's setting a trap.
Yikes! Really screwed up the links on that one. Wish I could fix it. My apologies.
Liz:
Is this yet another guest author who isn't going to comment?
There may be a couple of other explanations, beyond "can't be bothered"
1. This is a HuffPo article, and the author might be looking for comments there, not realizing that there is an active community here
2. The streams of inanity that intersperse the comments might put anybody off - I know I'm just hanging on
Fixed version, provided for readability (again, my apologies):
CW- "Thanks for adding some details to the story..."
The thanks should really go to my research assistant, Wikipedia , but the analysis was mine, so thanks for mentioning it.
I think the Professor is making the point that Trump isn't an anomaly, that his politics is a type of politics that was also practiced by A. Hitler, populist demagogue (and sure enough, if you look up 'demagogue' in Wikipedia, it lists all of the traits that the two have in common).
One thing that isn't listed is media. Radio was a new media platform in the 1920's, and Hitler was one of those rare characters, like Rush Limbaugh, who only has to be pointed toward a microphone and let loose. Hitler was defeated in part because radio could also be used to organize the resistance against him.
Joe McCarthy later used the new medium of Television to create dramatic images (like Hollywood stars testifying) that he could use to enhance his already dramatic insinuations of cultural subversion. He, too, was hoisted by his own petard in the form of a single dramatic television image, and the question (echoed in [37] by TheStig): "At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"
Trump is using the new multi-platform media environment and its 24 hour news cycle to his fullest advantage, organizing his followers and taking shots on twitter and leveraging the controversy he creates into billions of dollars worth of free media coverage.
Ironically, 'domesticating' Trump for general election purposes could take this advantage away from him. He would then find himself on Hillary's playing field - where she's had a two year head start developing media and funding infrastructure.
On the other hand, his unique media prowess was beginning to turn on him. He's nearly tied with her in most polls. He can do a big show in July (one of his specialties) and then sit back and let the Olympics take over. After that, more free media: the debates, and by then he's saved enough cash to unleash a punishing media blitzkrieg in October that could push him over the finish line by a nose.
Sidebar - this is a strategy for winning in timed Monopoly games: make your opponents think that you only hold crap, while quietly keeping them from attaining monopolies, and encourage them to undermine each other instead. At the last minute, flip over the properties you have and use the cash to win the game. If this were his plan, it would explain why Trump recently filed a financial statement that portrays his campaign as absurdly cash-strapped: he thinks that he's setting a trap.
Chris,
No, I didn't see that interview. I'll check it out - thanks for the heads up!
As for not needing notes ... for as long as I have known Biden, he has never needed 'talking points' because he always knows what he's talking about or he doesn't talk about it at all.
Neil,
Sorry but, neither of those are good reasons.
Chris,
I just finished watching the Biden interview with Charlie Rose. Thanks again for the heads-up on that one!
I hesitate to say that it was vintage Biden - rather it was the Biden that I have come to know and love over the many, many years of following his illustrious public service career.
Did you notice the body language and frequent misspeaks with respect to country names and leaders. I remember the McCain/Palin campaign team - and many others - making fun of the fact that he didn't know the difference between Hezbollah and Syria. Little did (and do) they know that Biden has forgotten more about foreign policy than the lot of them ever knew. But, I digress.
I had hoped that most Americans would change their minds about Joe Biden - about the kind of human being he is and about the fine statesman and public servant that he has always been - after seeing him in action as vice president for eight years. I like to believe that many of them have and now realize how lucky they are to have had the benefit of his long and productive service to their great nation for so long.
I, for one, look forward to his continued service in public life - I can't even imagine politics without him.
LizM -
See, I knew you'd like that!
It was a masterful interview -- Rose kept things tight (he occasionally wanders off into irrelevancy), and Biden was impressive as all get out. Especially his insistence on "what happens afterwards" for various Middle East scenarios. Too many politicians never ask that crucial question...
I'm kinda wishing he had run this year. I know he had the personal family situation, but still...
:-)
-CW
JL,
i was not wrong about israel.
siiiggggghhhhh
Yes you were.. You just can't admit that you were wrong and I was right...
Michale
I have a suggestion...
A couple years ago, I made a new years resolution to confine my wild tangents to the FTP commentary...
By and large, I have stuck to that resolution pretty well, if I do say so myself.. And I do..
I suggest that ya'all confine all the personal attacks and immature name-calling and hijacking commentaries and always making the commentaries about me personally... I suggest that ya'all confine all of THAT to the FTP commentary as well..
At least, THAT way, we can have 4 commentaries that is not filled with all of ya'all's bullshit..
What ya'all say???
Michale
Neil,
2. The streams of inanity that intersperse the comments might put anybody off - I know I'm just hanging on
2. The streams of unchallengable and inarguable facts that refute the positions of the Hysterical Left Wingery that intersperse the comments might put anybody off - I know I'm just hanging on
There... Fixed it for you... :D
Liz,
Sorry but, neither of those are good reasons.
Agreed...
A> If someone posts a commentary, they should have the wherewithall to defend their positions.. And that applies to the commenters as well. I see some of the most bigoted comments made as a drive-by (Dr Fish above, for example) that are just one shot "wonders" and they don't even follow-up... Drives me to drink!!! Well, it's actually more of a short walk.. :D
2> What Neil calls 'inane' is nothing more than a logical and rational response to completely BS statements.. But he (and most everyone else) CAN'T address the facts, so he (and a few others) just goes for the childish insults and immature personal attacks..
It'll be nice if we can confine those attacks and insults to the http://FTP...
Michale
I'm kinda wishing he had run this year. I know he had the personal family situation, but still...
If Biden HAD run, it would have reduced my post count by a factor of 10!! :D
Michale
Damn.
:-)
hehehehe I know, right!?? :D
Michale
TS,
Let me lay it out to you logically, rationally and succinctly..
The first two won't be a problem because it's me... The third is a toss-up because.. well, it's me.. :D
Anyways...
Let's postulate a scenario where Professor Janda posted his commentary with NO ATTRIBUTIONS what so ever.. He basically just posted HITLER IS EVIL AND TRUMP IS JUST LIKE HITLER.. He went down the list of characteristics and just commented that Trump shares those characteristics....
You and the rest of Weigantians would have accepted his commentary EXACTLY the same way as you did above because Prof Janda said EXACTLY what you wanted to hear...
Now, let's further postulate the scenario where my response to Prof Janda was full of research and reference footnotes and was the compilation of DAYS of meticulous research.. I posted that rebuttal..
And your response.. and the response of every Weigantian (N.E.N.) would have been EXACTLY the same towards me then as it was in the here and now....
And WHY would it have been exactly the same response?? Because I was saying something you didn't want to hear...
So, logic compels me to ask..
WHY should I do all the research and all the referential footnotes when it's, at BEST, going to be ignored and, at worst, a single unimportant and irrelevant point will be nit-picked in a lame attempt to refute the entire conclusion??? Yes, FOSBashi... I am looking at you... :D
Why???
Give me ONE GOOD REASON why??? If you can do that, I might consider it..
Michale
You just can't admit that you were wrong and I was right...
i can and have, when that's the case. here it's not. every single passenger entering israel gets profiled and questioned until they can be eliminated as a suspect, from white orthodox jews to black muslims to indians to australians. obviously, some are easier to eliminate as suspects than others, but that's as egalitarian as it gets. here in the US only minorities are profiled; if you're white, male, middle-aged, well-clothed and christian, your chances of getting any attention whatsoever are nearly nonexistent. profiling is an all or nothing endeavor; if you're going to do it, do it to everyone. if not, it's a violation of equal treatment under the law.
regarding the video, it's video evidence that trump and obama are not equal in how they treat protesters. President Obama confronts them verbally, talks to them, and rarely asks for them to be removed.
(since we're apparently in name-calling mode today), "Crazy Uncle Donald" kicks them out, makes fun of them and encourages his supporters to beat them up.
JL
i can and have, when that's the case.
I'll agree, even though I cannot remember when.. It's been that long..
. every single passenger entering israel gets profiled and questioned until they can be eliminated as a suspect, from white orthodox jews to black muslims to indians to australians. obviously, some are easier to eliminate as suspects than others, but that's as egalitarian as it gets. here in the US only minorities are profiled; if you're white, male, middle-aged, well-clothed and christian, your chances of getting any attention whatsoever are nearly nonexistent. profiling is an all or nothing endeavor; if you're going to do it, do it to everyone. if not, it's a violation of equal treatment under the law.
This is simply not accurate.. At least not as far as it goes..
Yes, EVERY person entering Israel is questioned.. But those who are of muslim persuasion are given extra attention.. If you are trying to tell me that this is not the case, you simply don't know what you are talking about.. Respectfully...
Put another way.. If an Israeli "TSA" has a Iranian and an American, who do you think is going to get the extra scrutiny...
If an Israeli "TSA" has a muslim and an orthodox jew, who do you think is going to get the extra scrutiny..
Hay, you don't have to argue with me.. It was the Israeli Transportation Minister who defended the muslim profiling...
Argue with him...
regarding the video, it's video evidence that trump and obama are not equal in how they treat protesters. President Obama confronts them verbally, talks to them, and rarely asks for them to be removed.
And if I can find ONE instance of a protester being removed from an Obama rally, will you concede that you are wrong??
(since we're apparently in name-calling mode today),
Only by JFC and my responses to JFC..
Per Liz's request, I am trying to be respectful to those who show respect..
JFC doesn't qualify... :D
"Crazy Uncle Donald" kicks them out, makes fun of them
"Clinging to guns and religion" qualifies as making "fun of them"...
and encourages his supporters to beat them up.
Trump encouraged self-defense.. Nothing more..
But it's funny how you bring that up and don't mention the gay Trump supporter that was beat up and bloodied..
I know, I know.. He's just a Trump supporter so he deserved it.. :^/
I get that..
Michale
Wow, I really frak'ed up the attributes...
You can figure it out... :D
Michale
Put another way.. If an Israeli "TSA" has a Iranian and an American, who do you think is going to get the extra scrutiny...
of course some people are more difficult to eliminate as suspects than others. my point is that everyone is considered. you seem to think that your attitude toward profiling in the US is justified by the success of israel's policy - it's not because israel's profiling policy is different from the one used in the US. In addition to being more thorough, it's more fair.
And if I can find ONE instance of a protester being removed from an Obama rally, will you concede that you are wrong??
of course not, because i didn't say that obama never removes protesters. i said that in most cases he listens and tries to engage them in dialogue. that's not always possible, but it's usually his first option.
JL
of course some people are more difficult to eliminate as suspects than others. my point is that everyone is considered.
"Considered" is not "profiled"...
. i said that in most cases he listens and tries to engage them in dialogue. that's not always possible, but it's usually his first option.
Then it's not an absolute fact, it's an opinion..
And I submit that Trump will ALSO engage protesters that don't immediately attack Trump...
Should Trump have "engaged" the Left Winger that tried to ASSASSINATE Trump???
However, having said that.. I will concede that Obama may be a little more amiable to protesters.. But not by much.. I can find youtube after youtube where Obama has loudmouths removed JUST like Trump...
The difference is ONLY in degree....
But I will concede that there IS a difference...
So, I misspoke before..
I apologize... (BLUE MOON!!!)
Michale
I like Mr. Trump better without a TelePrompTer.
It is my understanding, by the way, that Israel does not engage in racial profiling or profiling based on ethnicity or religious following. Mostly because they know it would be a total waste of their time and precious resources.
What they do is profile based on behavior. And, in the case of airports, there are multiple rings of behavioral profiling and everyone working at the airport, from top security personnel down to the janitors and cleaning crews are trained in how to observe and detect behavior of a suspicious nature.
What is the US doing to learn from the best practices of Israel with regard to behavioral profiling?
My guess? Not nearly enough.
It is my understanding, by the way, that Israel does not engage in racial profiling or profiling based on ethnicity or religious following. Mostly because they know it would be a total waste of their time and precious resources.
Your understanding is completely in error..
As the Israeli Transportation minister has stated..
What they do is profile based on behavior.
And if you have a terrorist who is well-behaved???
Kaablooooeeeeyyyy
Michale
What did he say, Michale?
Would it matter if I posted facts upon facts upon facts upon facts plus my own personal experiences WORKING with IDF operators that PROVE Israel profiles muslims??
Will ya'all concede the point when I do???
Because I ain't gonna go thru all the hassle of acquiring the facts only for ya'all to ignore it or argue what the definition of 'IS' is...
Michale
Oh, and I'm not talking about being well-behaved or not. Indeed, a well-behaved person can also be acting in a suspicious manner.
Behavioral profiling is effective. It involves, among other things, interacting with the person to see how they react to various stimuli.
I think you may be unaware or misinformed about how the Israelis do airport security and how they employ behavioral profiling.
As I recall, you don't have to take your shoes off at an Israeli airport.
What did he say, Michale?
A senior Israeli official justified the "profiling" of Muslims as potential security threats on Monday after U.S. presidential candidate Donald Trump said Americans should adopt Israel's disputed practice.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/israeli-minister-unapologetic-security-profiling-hailed-trump-121824508.html
Michale
Now, let's here what the definition of 'is' is.. :^/
Michale
Behavioral profiling is effective. It involves, among other things, interacting with the person to see how they react to various stimuli.
Cite???
Michale
I think you may be unaware or misinformed about how the Israelis do airport security and how they employ behavioral profiling.
I know EXACTLY how Israeli's do airport security because I have SEEN it from the perspective of security personnel....
You???
Michale
"It is not the whole population, but sometimes when there is a specific form of terrorism, you can seek out Islamic terrorism only among Muslims."
-Israeli Transportation and Intelligence Minister Yisrael Katz
Pretty cut and dried people... No ambiguity whatsoever...
But I am sure SOMEONE will find something to nit-pick..
ANYTHING to avoid saying, "Yep, Michale. You were right.. We were wrong.."
ssssiiiiggggghhhhhhh
It's tough being me... :D
Michale
It looks like we may both be right about how Israel handles airport security. While behavioral profiling is relied upon by Israeli officials, they also ethnic profiling may be a part of it and that shouldn't surprise me or anyone else.
I still think we have a lot to learn from how the Israelis profile based on behavior and maybe then we could do away with the "security theatre" that takes place now at US airports.
I know EXACTLY how Israeli's do airport security because I have SEEN it from the perspective of security personnel....
So, help me understand more about how behavioral profiling works at Israeli airports and how US airport security can benefit from the Israeli experience.
I just googled Israeli Airport Security, behavioral profiling and found this article ...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-wagner/what-israeli-airport-secu_b_4978149.html
I think behavioral profiling, whether or not it is used in conjunction with ethnic profiling when that makes sense, is the most effective means when it comes to thwarting terrorist attacks and the US should do more of that and less of the airport security theatre that does nothing to make the flying public safer.
I, my wife and all her family, including her brother who is a reservist in the IDF, have all been interviewed very sternly before every trip to israel, until we could be ruled out as suspects. obviously, someone who is muslim and arab will take longer to rule out than my brother in law, but the procedure is performed on everybody. if you want to say that the interview we were subjected to is not profiling, then sure, define "is" or "is not" however you like.
JL
if you want to say that the interview we were subjected to is not profiling, then sure, define "is" or "is not" however you like.
I don't have to define it. YOU already did..
It's an INTERVIEW...
What you experienced is so far different than what a muslim who is being profiled is night and day..
Again, don't take MY word.. Talk to Minister Katz...
Michale
I just googled Israeli Airport Security, behavioral profiling and found this article ...?
HuffPoop...
'nuff said... :D
Michale
Liz,
It looks like we may both be right about how Israel handles airport security.
THANK YOU, Liz! :D Thank you VERY much..
I accept this...
Michale
So, help me understand more about how behavioral profiling works at Israeli airports and how US airport security can benefit from the Israeli experience.
I cannot.. I am not a psychologist or a behavioral scientist..
I am just a knuckle-dragging ground pounder with the highly trained ability to see a spade as a spade...
Michale
Cop out.
Cop out.
Not at all..
I just don't talk about things I have no knowledge of or training at...
I can speak from experience of the nuts and bolts of counter terrorism, security and LEO...
I leave the behavioral/psychological aspects to those above my pay-grade...
Michale
So, because you don't know about it then it must not exist? Speaking of how the Israelis employ behavioral profiling and how that kind of screening is just as critical, if not more so, than ethnic profiling when it comes to violently deranged Islamist terrorism.
So, because you don't know about it then it must not exist?
No, I am not saying it does not exist..
I am just not qualified to comment on it's validity...
Michale
But, you think you are qualified enough to say I am in error about it???
But, you think you are qualified enough to say I am in error about it???
I am qualified, thru personal experience, to say that you are in error about the Israeli reliance on it..
Yes..
Michale
Then you are wrong because they do rely on it because it works.
Then you are wrong because they do rely on it because it works.
They don't "rely" on it..
It's part and parcel to a process... Once the subject is profiled, THEN the shrink mumbo jumbo may or may not come into play...
But it's a moot point. You have conceded that we are both correct and that is good enough for me...
Ni Ni :D
Michale
To Elizabeth Miller [1] who asked whether I was serious when I suggested--at the close of my comparison of Hitler's and Trump's electioneering--that Mr. Trump might not restore America's greatness, just as Hitler did not restore America's glory. First, I reject the charge that the United States is no longer a "great" nation. That is preposterous. Second, I contend that Mr. Trump as president will not improve our international stature or economy in any way. If the United States continues to be great, that will happen in spite of his administration.
Professor Janda,
I asked only because I thought your question was non-serious.
I also reject the notion that America is no longer a great nation. I am, in fact, the biggest fan of America on this blog. I still believe in the promise of America.
The candidacy of Mr. Trump is a dangerous proposition for America and so it is hard for me to even imagine a Trump administration.
But, I am still trying to decipher the point of your piece ...
...my takeaway from your piece is that similarities between Mr. Trump's campaign and Hitler's electioneering suggest how an unconventional candidate like Trump can win a national election.
But, I think it is important to compare the relative standings in the world of Germany c1933 and of America in 2016 and wonder whether this comparison makes your suggestion more or less likely.
Another critical comparison to look at is how the German people perceived the leadership of their country and whether they thought their country was on the right track or not. Is there any available data on that?
And, to complicate matters, these two factors may suggest different outcomes in terms of how successful Mr. Trump might be.
-that Mr. Trump might not restore America's greatness, just as Hitler did not restore America's glory.
Actually, Hitler DID "restore" America's glory.. In a manner of speaking.. :D
First, I reject the charge that the United States is no longer a "great" nation.
Compared to the other nations of the world, America is a great nation...
But, due to the malfeasance and incompetence of the Obama Administration and the Democrat Party (documented fact) it's not nearly as great as it once was..
Second, I contend that Mr. Trump as president will not improve our international stature or economy in any way.
Since we're real big around here on providing facts to support our conclusions...
What do you base your conclusion on?? Besides ideological Party loyalty, I mean....
If the United States continues to be great, that will happen in spite of his administration.
Assumes facts not in evidence.. This is nothing but Party loyalty talking..
Trump is a successful businessman. This is WELL DOCUMENTED.. This is FACT...
There is absolutely NO FACTS to support the claim that he wouldn't carry that success to the White House...
NONE... ZERO.... ZILCH..... NADA......
Michale
Well, Michale, looks like we may have a drive-by commenter ... :(
Liz,
Well, Michale, looks like we may have a drive-by commenter ...
Can't says as I blame him...
Staking out a position is easy...
Defending that position from an all out assault of the facts???
Well... Not many people are up for the challenge...
Michale
The next time he authors a guest column here, the comments section should be turned off.
Obama's plan to mint millions and millions of fresh new Democrat voters has been stopped..
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SUPREME_COURT_IMMIGRATION?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
PERMANENTLY...
There IS justice in the world.. :D
Michale
DOH!
That should have been in the FTP commentary..
My bust...
Liz,
The next time he authors a guest column here, the comments section should be turned off.
I dunno if I would go that far...
Maybe a notice to future guest authors that the denizens of Weigantia expect Guest Authors to defend their positions and follow up..
You'll note that Professor Janda or Dr Fish didn't dispute ANY of the facts I raised..
That's all the confirmation *I* need.. :D
But I understand your frustrations... Believe me, I understand..
Michale
So, Michale, do you think the parents of American citizens and legal residents should now be deported and families that have been living in the US for years should now be forcibly broken up?
That sounds very un-American to me ...
You'll note that Professor Janda or Dr Fish didn't dispute ANY of the facts I raised..
That's all the confirmation *I* need.. :D
argumentum ex-silentio - you're entitled to take solace where you wish, but it's still a fallacious argument.
(by the way, congrats on catching me in an appeal to authority the other day - i absolutely welcome valid criticisms such as that one)
JL
Elizabeth Miller wrote:
So, Michale, do you think the parents of American citizens and legal residents should now be deported and families that have been living in the US for years should now be forcibly broken up?
Abso-frakin'-loutly...
You do the crime, you do the time...
Why should these people get a free ride when LEGAL immigrants have paid HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of dollars and spent YEARS processing to obtain what these cretins want for free as a handout???
THAT sounds very Un-American to ME...
That sounds very un-American to me ...
I am not sure what America you are referring to.. The America that I have sworn to protect and defend, the America that I have bled and killed for...
THAT America is a nation of laws...
And if you can't do the time, don't do the crime...
Michale
The America I love is a nation of laws and compassion.
You think 11 million, give or take, illegal immigrants, many of whom have been living in and contributing to the United States, should be deported?
I think President Obama is going about it the right way and doing what he can even if I believe he is erring on the side of deporting too many.
And, additionally, the US is not taking in nearly its fair share of Syrian immigrants. It is getting harder these days to believe in the promise of America but, I still do.
I meant, Syrian refugees fleeing utterly horrible conditions in their country and surrounding environs.
I meant, Syrian refugees fleeing utterly horrible conditions in their country and surrounding environs.
And want to impose the VERY thing that brought about those "utterly horrible conditions" here...
Did you know that over 95% of muslims that immigrate to the US believe that Sharia Law is best???
Michale
Michale, I wonder how many others who have killed for America feel the same way you do Re. illegal immigration and war-fleeing refugees ...
The America I love is a nation of laws and compassion.
How much compassion is there for Donald Trump?? :D
Let's face reality.. There is only compassion for those who think the same...
Michale
You're not afraid of Sharia law becoming part of the American legal system, are you?
I'd like to see Mr. Trump exhibit a little compassion ...
Let's face reality.. There is only compassion for those who think the same...
That's how Mr. Trump sees it.
You're not afraid of Sharia law becoming part of the American legal system, are you?
No.. I am afraid of millions and millions of people demanding Sharia law...
"I don't care about the general that wants 200 nuclear weapons.. I am terrified of the man that just wants one."
-Nicole Kidman, PEACEKEEPER
Michale
Let's face reality.. There is only compassion for those who think the same...
That's how Mr. Trump sees it.
And that's how everyone here sees it as well..
Michale
No.. I am afraid of millions and millions of people demanding Sharia law...
I see.
I think there is only one person here who sees it the way Mr. Trump sees it.
I think there is only one person here who sees it the way Mr. Trump sees it.
Yep.... :D
But, since you bring it up, what's wrong with NOT having compassion for those who wish to do Americans harm???
Michale
Do you agree that Sharia Law is NOT compatible with American values???
Things like subjugating women, executing gay people, etc etc...
Is any of that compatible with your vision of America???
Michale
You're constantly moving the goal posts, Michale. I thought you were opposed to showing compassion toward those who think differently than you do not those who wish to do harm to America.
You believe those who think differently from you wish to do America harm??
Is any of that compatible with your vision of America???
Of course, not. What's your point?
Why on earth are you so worried about Sharia law?
Why on earth are you so worried about Sharia law?
For the exact same reason you are so worried about the, what was it you said??.... the "utterly horrible conditions" that refugees faced in their homeland...
Michale
Is any of that compatible with your vision of America???
Of course, not. What's your point?
My point is that over 95% of the refugees that you are welcoming with open arms WANT that vision for America..
So, I would say that your positions are diametrically in conflict..
You say you are against executing people because they are gay.. Yet you want to welcome people who believe EXACTLY that..
You say you are against subjugating women and honor murders etc etc..
Yet you want to welcome people who believe EXACTLY that...
It simply does not compute...
UNLESS you throw in the fact that it's EXACTLY what Obama wants...
Then it all becomes clear...
Michale
That doesn't make any sense to me.
You think there is a danger that Sharia law will be incorporated into the US legal system!?
My point is that over 95% of the refugees that you are welcoming with open arms WANT that vision for America..
Where are you getting this from? That sounds like a lot of nonsense to me.
So, Michale, do you think all Muslim Americans should be deported?
Now, WHY Obama wants it???
THAT.... That is the $64,000 question....
Michale
How many American citizens are Muslim and how many of them fought and bled and killed for America?
Now, WHY Obama wants it??? THAT.... That is the $64,000 question....
What are you insinuating about President Obama?
Michale,
Now, WHY Obama wants it??? THAT.... That is the $64,000 question....
What are you insinuating about President Obama?
Where are you getting this from? That sounds like a lot of nonsense to me.
Of course it does... But it's still factual...
So, Michale, do you think all Muslim Americans should be deported?
Of course not.. AMERICAN Muslims, by and large are not the problem. They are AMERICANS...
But why bring in 99.9% muslims and tell all the christians that are being brutally slaughtered to go pound salt???
You DO realize that BY LAW christians have priority status when it comes to immigration, right???
Michale
What are you insinuating about President Obama?
I am not insinuating anything.
I simply question why, when the LAW states that christian refugees have priority, Obama is telling christians, "Frak ya'all.. Yer on yer own" and is importing muslim refugees by the thousands....
And anyone who is not enslaved by Party dogma would ALSO ask the exact same question....
It's perfectly obvious that Obama is importing thousands and thousands of reliable Democrat voters...
Michale
I simply question why, when the LAW states that christian refugees have priority, Obama is telling christians, "Frak ya'all.. Yer on yer own" and is importing muslim refugees by the thousands....
Well, most of the Syrian refugees are Sunni Muslim and opposed to the Assad government. Furthermore, it is the United Nations High Commission for Refugees that refers refugees to the United States. So, your questions and fears are misplaced and/or misguided.
Michale,
Given your concern about the perceived discrimination by the Obama administration against Syrian refugees who are Christian, I'd be interested in your take on the plight of this Syrian family who are seeking asylum in your country ...
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/17/christian-syrian-refugee-i-thought-america-would-accept-me
Furthermore, it is the United Nations High Commission for Refugees that refers refugees to the United States. So, your questions and fears are misplaced and/or misguided.
So, the United Nations is dictating to the United States in contravention of US law...
Nice....
As if I need another reason to despise the UN...
Michale
Nice....
As if I need another reason to despise the UN...
You REALLY need to see CAPTAIN AMERICAN-CIVIL WAR...
Then I can REALLY cut loose!! :D
Michale
I know.
Something tells me that you're not a big fan of the Cap ...
Something tells me that you're not a big fan of the Cap ...
Bite yer tongue!!!
I am TEAM CAPTAIN AMERICA thru and thru...
"The safest hands are still our own.."
Turning over the reins of the AVENGERS to the UN!???
My gods, just destroy the planet right now... Get it over with....
Michale
Don't get me wrong.. I like Tony Stark..
But he is easily led... He follows his heart to the exclusion of his head... He is swayed by his emotions and tries to please everyone...
Tony Stark is the guy I would love to sit down with and have a beer.. Or 10....
Steve Rogers is the guy I would follow to the gates of hell and beyond...
Michale
Liz,
That doesn't make any sense to me.
You think there is a danger that Sharia law will be incorporated into the US legal system!?
A week ago, if you would have asked me,"You think there is any danger of Britain leaving the EU?" I would have had to concede, "NO"....
And yet, here we are...
But the point is not Sharia Law here in the US..
The point is, why would ANYONE want to import tens of thousands of refugees who BELIEVE that Sharia Law (executing gays, subjugating women) is appropriate...
THAT's my question...
And the ONLY logical and rational conclusion I can come up with is minting fresh new Democrat voters..
Michale
Michale, how do you know what those refugees believe?