Will Ireland Reunify After Brexit?
To begin with, Great Britain is part of Europe. This is a cartological fact which anyone with a grade-school grasp of geography knows. One is a subset of the other. Three countries (England, Wales, and Scotland) make up the island of Great Britain, and when you add in Northern Ireland (more on them in a moment), you get the United Kingdom. All are located on islands, but those islands are undoubtedly part of the continent of Europe. While Britain may leave the European Union political federation, they will always remain European.
You might think I'm stating some fairly obvious facts here, but an astounding poll appeared in the midst of the run-up to the Brexit vote -- only one in seven Brits considered themselves "European." Even in the middle of a hard-fought and emotional political campaign, that's a pretty jaw-droppingly low percentage.
I have first-hand experience with this attitude, both from visits to Britain over the last quarter-century and from when I lived in Europe in the early 1990s. I'd listen to BBC radio in the mornings back then (for news in English) and encounter this strange attitude on a daily basis. News, for example was either local (British) or "...from Europe today...." In subtle and not-so-subtle ways, the British considered Europe to be a completely separate entity from them. This was back when the idea of consolidating Europe financially and economically was still very much a work in progress (the Euro wouldn't appear for years). Time and time again, the British essentially wanted an outsized amount of control before agreeing to any new political unification of Europe. Britain was only ever half-heartedly in the European Union, to put this another way. The best example of this was the fact that Britain never adopted the Euro at all, retaining their Pound instead. And even back then, the "Eurosceptic" faction already existed in British politics.
Historians would no doubt ascribe at least some of this attitude to the "hangover of empire." Britain used to "rule the waves," and they used their military might to carve out the biggest empire of all -- indeed, one "the sun never set on." They haven't forgotten those halcyon days, to put it mildly. But the depth of these feelings differs across the four countries which make up the United Kingdom. In England, the feelings run highest, which is why the vote there was no real surprise. Everyone knew the "Leave" faction would do best in England, to put it another way. Scotland, however, is already on the brink of declaring its independence from the other three countries, and now may hold a second referendum on the issue. The Scots have their own long and storied history, and much of that history involves fighting with the English. If the economic fallout from Brexit gets worse (or continues without end in sight), the Scottish people may very well vote themselves out of the United Kingdom to rejoin the European Union as an independent country instead.
What interests me more, however, is what Northern Ireland will do. Because if Scotland bolts, Ireland may actually unite once again as well. I have no idea what the chances of this actually happening really are, but the least you can say is that the chances would certainly be higher if Scotland does decide to go its own way.
This involves another short detour into geography, since most Americans are fuzzy (at best) on what these labels mean. The island to the west of the island of Great Britain (across the Irish Sea) is known as Ireland (or, more properly, "Eire"). However, the label "Ireland" is also loosely used to describe the Republic of Ireland, which is the part of the island that is independent from Britain. It is, in fact, now the centennial of the start of their successful war of independence (see: 1916 Easter Rising). There are six counties on the north end of the island of Ireland, however, which were retained by Great Britain when the Republic of Ireland became an independent state. These six counties (of the province of Ulster) became Northern Ireland, a country within the United Kingdom. The Brits essentially wanted to keep their heavy industry in Belfast (the Titanic was built in Belfast shipyards). Of course, there is more to it than that, and a full history of the Irish-British relationship would fill many volumes. But for now, picture two countries ("Ireland" and "Northern Ireland") on the same island. Northern Irish citizens are British, and follow British laws and use the Pound Sterling. Ireland (the Republic) is an independent country that fully adopted the European Union and uses the Euro. As of the moment, there are no border controls between the two entities -- a remarkable victory for peace, after all the guerrilla warfare over the past 50 years or so.
Many in Northern Ireland are fiercely British. Most in the Republic are fiercely Irish. But they finally settled their differences enough for peace to take hold in the Good Friday Agreement (a lot of important history in Ireland has happened around Easter, for some reason), which was signed in 1998. Since that point, militant groups on both sides have lain down their arms and differences are now peacefully worked out through the political process (for the most part). But part of this historic agreement concerned the future of Northern Ireland. If, at some future point, a majority of people in both the Republic and Northern Ireland vote to unify, then that is what will happen. Britain will finally give up all claim to any part of the island, and they will be one single nation. When the accords were signed, it was assumed this wouldn't happen for many generations. A week ago, I still would have thought another generation's time would have passed before Ireland ever voted to reunify.
Now, though, it looks like it may happen a whole lot sooner -- especially if Scotland votes for independence first. The possibility that Northern Ireland will vote to exit the United Kingdom is now within the realm of conceivability. The political calculus has shifted, in a big way. Previous to Brexit, the Republic of Ireland's best argument for reunification was one of shared history and ethnicity. Now, however, the Republic might have a much more convincing economic argument to make. The prospect of using Euros and enjoying all the benefits of being part of the European Union is a huge enticement that might look better and better to Northern Ireland, especially if the E.U. takes a hardline stance towards Brexit. If the British economy takes a big hit as a direct result, reunification might become a much more popular idea in Northern Ireland -- especially if the Scottish economy has already benefited from leaving Great Britain.
There is already one sign (anecdotal, admittedly) that attitudes might have begun to shift. It seems there has been a flood of applications for Irish passports from the Republic of Ireland. Part of the Good Friday Agreement gave citizens of Northern Ireland the choice -- they could get British passports or Irish passports. Up until now, this has largely been an academic choice, since both passports guaranteed the same rights in the E.U. However, after Brexit they will indeed be different. Which is why post offices in Northern Ireland have been swamped with requests for forms since the Brexit vote.
The real impetus for reunification might be border controls, though. Right now, travel is free and unrestricted (and without customs duties) between Ireland and Northern Ireland. If Brexit changes this situation (it'd be hard to avoid -- the border between the two is the only land border the United Kingdom has with anyone else in Europe, unless you count the Chunnel), then reunification might become even more appealing.
The question of laws and governance would be a dicey one, and how it would be settled will affect the outcome of any referendum. The Republic of Ireland was for a very long time the closest thing in Europe (outside of the Vatican, at any rate) to a theocracy. The Catholic Church had an enormous influence over the Irish government, and this has only begun to change in meaningful ways in the past few decades. Divorce, for instance, was flat-out illegal until 1995 -- when a very close referendum changed the law. Abortion is restricted more than any law any state in America's Deep South has ever passed (saving the life of the mother is the only allowable reason, and even this isn't perfect -- mothers still occasionally die because abortions are so restricted). But the times, even in the Republic, are changing (to understand this swift change, check out this article written on Irish marriage laws). Ireland became the first country in the world to pass gay marriage by referendum, a little over a year ago. The holds the Catholic Church used to have over Irish politics are fast losing their grip, and the population is now the youngest in Europe. Meaning the populace might be open to their laws becoming even less theocratic, especially if that was the price to pay for reunification. Alternatively, Ulster could be given a large degree of autonomy from Dublin, and be allowed to operate under their own laws (they already have their own parliament -- another thing the referendum would have to address).
Again, this is all nothing but the sheerest speculation on my part, and I have no way of measuring how likely any of this will be. The reunification of Ireland would be historic, but even if Northern Ireland does hold a referendum within the next few years, it's impossible to predict how they'd vote. Feelings run deep, and the history of animosity stretches back centuries. An Irish reunification vote would likely be even more contentious than the Brexit vote or a Scottish independence vote. Such a vote would probably only happen if Scotland successfully paved the way by cutting ties with Britain first. The only thing you can predict with any certainty is that the people of the Republic of Ireland would likely vote overwhelmingly to reunify with the six counties of Northern Ireland (both countries would have to hold votes on the issue). A united Ireland, free forever from Britain, has been the dream of Irish rebels for hundreds of years. Brexit may actually have moved things one step closer to this dream becoming a reality a lot sooner than most would have predicted -- even last week.
-- Chris Weigant
Cross-posted at The Huffington Post
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
neilm
Thanks for the interesting concluding comment yesterday (today).
Gonna be interesting. Although, if I had to bet, I'd say the likelihood is they'll back out of the Brexit.
it would be amazing if ireland really did use this crisis as an opportunity to resolve their differences once and for all.
Ireland will reunify, UK will be not so united, Scotland will stay with EU, EU will fracture and everything and everyone will continue on, business as usual.
Because no lesson will be learned from all of this, as per the normal course of events.
Oh and, by the way, the markets will be just fine.
As for the US? Well, that just may be a whole other kind of story.
But, don't worry, the markets will soldier on, so to speak.
Meanwhile, Canada is looking like the only sane country on the planet.
And, we'd love to adopt President Obama and his whole fam damly. :)
Carry on.
The Brits essentially wanted to keep their heavy industry in Belfast (the Titanic was built in Belfast shipyards).
Probably not something they want to brag about.. :D
If the British economy takes a big hit as a direct result, reunification might become a much more popular idea in Northern Ireland -- especially if the Scottish economy has already benefited from leaving Great Britain.
Hmmmmmm So, Britain leaving the PU, the economy of Britain will be destroyed. So says the fear-mongers... But if Scotland leaves the UK, then their economy will prosper...
Talk about double-think... :D
Awesome commentary, CW.. :D
Michale
Ireland will reunify, UK will be not so united, Scotland will stay with EU, EU will fracture and everything and everyone will continue on, business as usual.
Exactly, Liz!!!
Business as usual...
There will be no economic meltdown and beggars in the streets and petrol topping at $140 per gallon...
The globalists, elitists and corporatists are simply using fear-mongering... That is all...
Meanwhile, Canada is looking like the only sane country on the planet.
http://i.cbc.ca/1.3655635.1467112802!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_620/trudeau-comic-cover-20160628.jpg
Yea... sane.. :D
And, we'd love to adopt President Obama and his whole fam damly. :)
"Take our POUTUS.... Please..."
:D
Michale
Meanwhile, Canada is looking like the only sane country on the planet.
well it's certainly in the running for snarkiest.
;)
JL
Ireland Reunification:
Most of the maps showing the results from the Brexit Referendum show Northern Ireland (NI) as a single entity, since that is the way it reports its results. However if you look with more granularity you can see that there is a geographical divide within NI itself:
http://leftfootforward.org/images/2016/06/a-NI-identity.png
I used to take my Grandmother to visit her relatives in NI as a kid. My dad's cousin was in the Ulster Reserves and used to have a "tribal" map showing Catholic vs. Protestant areas - it basically matched up with the map above.
The Ulster protestants will have no interest in becoming part of Ireland - the peace over there is still fragile and a referendum would likely lead to violence, an outcome well known to the residents.
It isn't as easy to say that since NI voted remain this would translate to a "join Eire" vote, since many of the Protestants who voted Remain would likely "switch sides" in the case of a referendum to merge.
well it's certainly in the running for snarkiest.
I resemble that remark.
@neil,
wow, that map is pretty telling. sharp divide between border counties and non-border counties.
JL
I was amused by the Canadian Parliament yesterday chanting "FOUR MORE YEARS, FOUR MORE YEARS!" after Obama's address. Good for them.
I'm somewhat bemused by the current attempt by the Trumpettes, and apparently Trump himself, to try to lure in the Bernie Fans by casting themselves as anti-globalists, as though Trump himself, who lends his name to products made in nearly every country except the US, were some kind of working-class hero. This man who has always had a chauffeur. him.
Does Trump even know that many, if not most of the steel factories in the US (including former US companies Bethlehem Steel and US Steel) are owned by ArcelorMittal, a multi-national that has holdings in over a dozen countries and is controlled by the family of Lakshmi Mittal, and Indian who lives in London, and that this company acquired and rebuilt a steel plant in Calvert, Alabama (a joint venture with Japanese steel giant Nippon), whose 5.3 million ton output is being produced for 'the NAFTA region'. ArcelorMittal employs more than 232,000 people worldwide and better than 37,000 in North America, including steel making facilities in Canada. Worldwide, ArcelorMittal produces 97 million tons of steel, more than doubling its closest competitor, HBIS (a.k.a. Hesteel Group), the largest steel producer in China, which brags on its website that it owns share in over 70 companies in the US, UK, Australia, Canada, and Switzerland equaling over $6 billion in investments, and have just opened new plants in South Africa and Serbia.
And ArcelorMittal is only the 91st largest company in the world, according to FORBES. Even with all that they hold, they are standing way back in the receiving line.
And this is why Trump's simplistic prescription of trade wars and tariffs is so terrifying to anyone who knows anything about it, and should be to anyone who cares about jobs and the US economy.
I'm somewhat bemused by the current attempt by the Trumpettes, and apparently Trump himself, to try to lure in the Bernie Fans by casting themselves as anti-globalists, as though Trump himself, who lends his name to products made in nearly every country except the US, were some kind of working-class hero. This man who has always had a chauffeur. him.
Just chaps yer arse, don't it?? :D
Ya'all are for the corporatist, globalist, elitist, establishment candidate...
And Trump is the POPULIST, Middle Class candidate...
You can't make this stuff up! :D
Michale
And this is why Trump's simplistic prescription of trade wars and tariffs is so terrifying to anyone who knows anything about it, and should be to anyone who cares about jobs and the US economy.
Yea, cuz NAFTA has worked SO WELL for the American Middle Class... :^/
Michale
I was amused by the Canadian Parliament yesterday chanting "FOUR MORE YEARS, FOUR MORE YEARS!" after Obama's address. Good for them.
I suppose amusing is one word for it. So, I suppose, it was an appropriate description for the countless standing ovations during an hour long address by President Obama.
There was complete unity in the House of Commons as Canadians can recognize a true statesman when they see one in action for almost eight years.
It's really hilarious when you look at it without political blinders..
Here are a gaggle of "experts" who pan Trumps' business expertise...
Yet it's these same "experts" who have made the US into a 3rd World shit-hole...
Yea.. Loads of credibility there... :D
Michale
Balthasar[15]
That is the very point President Obama made yesterday - trumpism is not populism.
Canadians can recognize a true statesman when they see one in action for almost eight years.
Or less - I thought Trudeau was excellent yesterday as well. ;)
And Trump is the POPULIST
I'd say he's more of an old-fashioned nativist-nationalist, rather than a populist, since he is against several things that are overwhelmingly popular in the polls, like gun control and abortion rights (which he himself supported, once upon a time). Like others on the right, pretends to be a populist by asserting that all of his policy ideas are popular (that is, those that can be discerned amid all of the self-contradicting statements he's made). Personally, I think he's actually a sophisticated parrot, repeating things he's heard on talk radio. Of course parrots only sound like they know what they're talking about.
Hey, I had a thought: if the Nationalists (Trump guys) and Socialists (Bernie guys) actually did get together, they'd be collectively: National Socialists. Led by a bloviating racist with no respect for the Geneva Convention. What could possibly go wrong?
I'd say he's more of an old-fashioned nativist-nationalist, rather than a populist,
OF COURSE you would say that...
That's because you support the globalist, corporatist, elitist candidate...
Led by a bloviating racist with no respect for the Geneva Convention.
Of course, you can PROVE that Trump is a racist, right??
Of course you can't....
Michale
Liz,
That is the very point President Obama made yesterday - trumpism is not populism.
If it walks like a populist and talks like a populist........
I get it...
Ya'all have been forced to support the globalist, elitist, corporatist candidate who's a bona fide LIAR...
Sour grapes and all...
If it makes ya'all feel any better, I DO feel sorry for ya'all... :D
Michale
Seriously...
How can ya'all complain about Trump and then support Hillary???
That's beyond me...
It's like saying how bad Hitler is, then going full on Ra-Ra-Ra for Stalin.....
Michale
Yea, cuz NAFTA has worked SO WELL for the American Middle Class..
NAFTA got a bum rap for years, because the left (unions and anti-corporatists) and the far right (nativists, nationalists, and isolationists) made common cause against it. Coming as it did, just as globalism and the computer revolution kicked in, it got the brunt of blame for things that had nothing to do with it, such as dislocation due to automation and technological improvement.
Obama made this point yesterday about dislocation through automation: look at any episode of "How It's Made" and count the number of workers used in the making of most things nowadays. If you count ten in the whole episode, you've caught an unusually populated one.
He also made the point that businesses that export pay higher wages than businesses that don't.
Balthasar,
What do you make of Ms Clinton's reversal on TPP and do you think she will have another change of mind on this critical issue.
I can't imagine that the US would not go forward on something as important for its influence and leadership - economically and geopolitically - in the Asia-Pacific region.
NAFTA got a bum rap for years, because the left (unions and anti-corporatists) and the far right (nativists, nationalists, and isolationists) made common cause against it. Coming as it did, just as globalism and the computer revolution kicked in, it got the brunt of blame for things that had nothing to do with it, such as dislocation due to automation and technological improvement.
Obama made this point yesterday about dislocation through automation: look at any episode of "How It's Made" and count the number of workers used in the making of most things nowadays. If you count ten in the whole episode, you've caught an unusually populated one.
He also made the point that businesses that export pay higher wages than businesses that don't.
"Ignore the man behind the curtain.... Your lives are awesome....
-Hussein Odumbo
Whatever ya have to tell yourselves to make it thru the day... :D
Liz,
What do you make of Ms Clinton's reversal on TPP and do you think she will have another change of mind on this critical issue.
Depends on how much $$$ she can make or how much power she can collect....
Michale
I would add that Democrats have been trying for years to get bills through the congress that would alleviate the discomfort of the middle/lower classes, but they have all been blocked by Republicans:
Education and training for older workers.
Alleviation of student loan costs.
Infrastructure bills, which have been shot down every single year of the Obama administration, even immediately after the MN bridge collapse. Trump says he is against his own party on this one, but as I've said, the REAL plan is sitting on Paul Ryan's desk.
The Trans-pacific partnership, which extends free trade to the Pacific Rim, and re-writes NAFTA in part as well, closing loopholes that cost home-grown jobs, while opening new markets overseas. It also has the toughest worker-protection provisions ever written into a trade agreement, ever. Hillary would seek changes that further boost protection for US workers and punish companies that park profits and corporate headquarters in off-shore tax havens.
What do you make of Ms Clinton's reversal on TPP and do you think she will have another change of mind on this critical issue.
I'm not sure she ever changed her mind on the TPP, other than to say, "Sure, we could tweak it."
The difference is that the GOP (and some on the left) would happily throw the baby out with the bathwater, leaving us with a Pacific dominated by Chinese interests instead of a marketplace in which the rules have been written on our terms.
It's as if their policy is "Screw them even if it screws us, too." Oddly enough, Trump seemed to say exactly that yesterday.
I would add that Democrats have been trying for years to get bills through the congress that would alleviate the discomfort of the middle/lower classes, but they have all been blocked by Republicans:
Bull carp..
Democrats had a LOCK on the government.. They could have pushed thru all sorts of goodies for the Middle Class..
But they opted for a rich payday for Insurance Companies..
Feed that line of bull to someone who doesn't know any better..
Michale
I'm not sure she ever changed her mind on the TPP, other than to say, "Sure, we could tweak it."
Ahhhhhh Let the spin begin...
Crooked Hillary said that the TPP was the "gold standard"..
THEN she said it needs to be "tweaked"...
Once again, feed your line of bull to someone who DOESN'T know the facts...
Michale
Ya'all have been forced to support the globalist, elitist, corporatist candidate who's a bona fide LIAR...
I am so glad to see that you have finally come to grips with exactly what Trump is ....
I'm not sure she ever changed her mind on the TPP, other than to say, "Sure, we could tweak it."
Really? That sounds rather naïve on her part. Once a big trade deal like this has been negotiated and signed off on - though not yet ratified - it is difficult to engage in the tweaking process. And, that is especially true when you consider that the US is currently negotiating a trade arrangement with Europe.
As I recall, she supported the deal while serving in the Obama administration as Secretary of State but, as a presidential candidate and now the presumptive Democratic nominee she has back-peddled on her support.
Democrats had a LOCK on the government.. They could have pushed thru all sorts of goodies for the Middle Class..
That's a favorite talking point of the right that's been debunked over and over, but go ahead and keep telling yourself that the dems are just that inept if it helps.
Arguments like that have an audience of only those who already believe them, because everyone else is plenty familiar with GOP obstructionism, and for whom the benefits of that obstruction were intended.
I am so glad to see that you have finally come to grips with exactly what Trump is ....
Uh huh... Uh huh... :D
The old, "I KNOW YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I" rebuttal... :D
Michale
Really? That sounds rather naïve on her part. Once a big trade deal like this has been negotiated and signed off on - though not yet ratified - it is difficult to engage in the tweaking process. And, that is especially true when you consider that the US is currently negotiating a trade arrangement with Europe.
As I recall, she supported the deal while serving in the Obama administration as Secretary of State but, as a presidential candidate and now the presumptive Democratic nominee she has back-peddled on her support.
Careful, Liz...
Yer gonna confuse them with FACTS and reality... :D
Michale
That's a favorite talking point of the right that's been debunked over and over, but go ahead and keep telling yourself that the dems are just that inept if it helps.
I am not talking about a filibuster proof.. I am talking about a virtual lock..
Americans were SCREAMING for jobs...
And yer Democrats gave them TrainWreckCare...
You can spin it all you want... But Hussein Odumbo and the Democrats have been a DISASTER for the Middle Class...
These are the facts that NO AMOUNT of spin will change..
Michale
But we're kinda getting off topic from Ireland and Brexit... :D
Michale
I am not talking about a filibuster proof.. I am talking about a virtual lock..
'Virtual' in this case meaning, 'imaginary', as it wasn't filibuster-proof.
Americans were SCREAMING for jobs.
Yes, they were, in the wake of George II's Great Recession (now THAT . We were trying to come out of it, and the GOP had decided that 'austerity' was the cure for 'lack of money'.
That's when democrats realized that Health care costs had continued to rise even during the recession, because the HC industry was immune from market forces. The solution was to either a) scrap the system and pay health costs directly; or b) to introduce market forces back into the healthcare system. In order to get enough votes to avoid a filibuster, it had to be the latter.
And of course, since the public would actually prefer a single payer system, and the GOP wanted no change at all, and continue to block full implementation, a full and impartial assessment is difficult, save that millions and millions of people now have health insurance who wouldn't have had it otherwise.
But I agree, back to Brexit...
But I agree, back to Brexit...
Let's not and say we did.
Yes, they were, in the wake of George II's Great Recession (now THAT . We were trying to come out of it, and the GOP had decided that 'austerity' was the cure for 'lack of money'.
And Democrats decided that TrainWreckCare was the cure..
A plan that kicked MILLIONS of Americans out of the healthcare plans that they LIKED and caused health care costs to SKY ROCKET..
And Americans are STILL clamoring for jobs, 7 years later..
Good plan.. :^/
Michale
And of course, since the public would actually prefer a single payer system, and the GOP wanted no change at all, and continue to block full implementation, a full and impartial assessment is difficult, save that millions and millions of people now have health insurance who wouldn't have had it otherwise.
So, when the GOP is in charge, everything is the GOP's fault..
And when the Democrats are in charge, when the Democrats have a virtual lock on government, everything is STILL the GOP's fault..
In short, the GOP is as evil incarnate and the Democrat Party is as pure as the driven snow...
And you don't see ANY bias in that attitude??? :D
Michale
OK, now we can go back to BREXIT.. :D
Michale
Michael,
OK, I am gonna have to ask that you show that you have even a slither of respect for this country and it's leader by referring to our President by his name and not as "Hussein Odumbo". I voted for Bush, but by his second term I thought he and his administration were horrible. Cheney might be a war criminal-in-waiting, but he was still our country's VP. No matter how little I might have thought of them, I never would disrespect the office that they held by resorting to play ground mentality name calling! That, to me, is unacceptable. I cannot force you to do this, nor would I wish to, but I do hope that you can understand my position on this.
I have no issue with you calling the candidates whatever you want -- call Hillary "Crooked Hillary" or Trump "a dilated cow anus" all day long. I have read your comments quoting Trump's claims how of Islamic extremists don't respect our country. If we demand the respect of others, it would be great if we at least demonstrated the same level of respect for our country that we are demanding of others!
Let's not and say we did.
Heh, okay. I did want to discuss this some more:
Once a big trade deal like this has been negotiated and signed off on - though not yet ratified - it is difficult to engage in the tweaking process. And, that is especially true when you consider that the US is currently negotiating a trade arrangement with Europe.
And can you imagine the state of that negotiation in the wake of Brexit? What a nightmare.
I honestly think that Hillary would sign it as-is if it came to her desk, and say that, despite her reservations (which she would describe as 'very real'), it is, taken as a whole, a good deal. Bernie has made it such a hot potato for her, however, that she would rather discuss Monica than the TPP right now, so don't expect anything on this from Hillary that isn't nuanced to the point of disappearing altogether until after November. That's what I would advise her to do.
I actually think that the Senate will take up the TPP during the lame duck session, with the excuse that either Hillary might veto it, or Trump might re-write it(the establishment GOP will feel free, after the election, to oppose Trump on this even if he wins). Either way, Obama would sign it, and everyone would forget Hillary's campaign position.
While we're weaving in and out of Brexit and the rest, I'd like to take a moment and note the passing of Alvin Toffler, the author of Future Shock and other books, each of which were filled with uncanny prediction of the future and insightful analysis of the forces affecting the modern world.
Toffler, who first conceived of the idea that we were moving from an industrial to a post-industrial society in 1965, and wrote about the economic and social dislocations and pathologies that accompany such a change in his books, has benefited as few prognosticators have by the passage of time: we know from our vantage point fifty years later that he was spot-on, and that his predictions have continued to come true as the scenario he describes unfolds. No science future author of that time was ever as accurate in his description of the future, nor was any prognosticator more correct in the specific details of the future to such a degree. For the world, losing Toffler is on the order of losing both Nostradamus and Robert Heinlein on the same day.
So Huzzah! for Alvin. May memory of him never fade.
I read "Future Shock" in high school (unusual - in a good way - English teacher assigned it as a text). My big take away was that the pace of change was going to accelerate and start leaving more and more people behind - not an easy thing to see in 1970.
Kudos to Toffler for being right. Sad to hear about his passing.
Balthasar[45]
There you go ... reminding me why it is that I'm not a big Clinton fan, to put it mildly. :)
Listen,
OK, I am gonna have to ask that you show that you have even a slither of respect for this country and it's leader by referring to our President by his name and not as "Hussein Odumbo".
First off, Hussein IS his name..
Secondly...
Friday Talking Points [391] -- Our "Dopey Donald" Contest
http://www.chrisweigant.com/2016/05/13/ftp391/
I am showing the exact same respect to President Obama that ya'all are showing to Trump...
Cheney might be a war criminal-in-waiting, but he was still our country's VP.
And what does that make our current POUTUS, who has continued and EXPANDED many of the programs that Cheney started??
I never would disrespect the office that they held by resorting to play ground mentality name calling! That, to me, is unacceptable. I cannot force you to do this, nor would I wish to, but I do hope that you can understand my position on this.
I DO understand your position on this because it's a position that I have always followed..
And don't think it doesn't bother me that I have sunk to the level of playground name-calling..
However... When in Rome.....
I have no issue with you calling the candidates whatever you want -- call Hillary "Crooked Hillary" or Trump "a dilated cow anus" all day long.
On this, I disagree.. Those who are running for the office that demands respect from Americans, they should ALSO be shown respect...
If we demand the respect of others, it would be great if we at least demonstrated the same level of respect for our country that we are demanding of others!
I completely agree...
And I am willing to show that level of respect for our POUTUS if everyone else is will to show that level of respect for the GOP candidate...
As I am fond of saying.. If one wants respect, one must be respectful..
Michale
There you go ... reminding me why it is that I'm not a big Clinton fan, to put it mildly. :)
The problem with Hillary is that she exists for Hillary and Hillary only..
Her power and her money is all she cares about...
EVERYTHING else is a non issue...
Michale
I honestly think that Hillary would sign it as-is if it came to her desk, and say that, despite her reservations (which she would describe as 'very real'), it is, taken as a whole, a good deal. Bernie has made it such a hot potato for her, however, that she would rather discuss Monica than the TPP right now, so don't expect anything on this from Hillary that isn't nuanced to the point of disappearing altogether until after November. That's what I would advise her to do.
Yea... Gods forbid that Hillary should actually take a stand on PRINCIPLE....
Ach, what am I saying....
Hillary HAS no principles...
Michale
WATCH: Trump Brings Man Up On Stage Who Was Forced To Train His Foreign Replacement
The presumptive Republican nominee explained, “I want to introduce though a man that’s worked here for many years, Mike. And Mike actually had the distinct lack of honor of training people from Mexico to take his job.”
http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/30/watch-trump-brings-man-up-on-stage-who-was-forced-to-train-his-foreign-replacement/
The Democrat Part *USED* to care about middle class workers like Mike...
That was before they sold their souls and the soul of their Party to the globalists, elitists and corporatists...
Seriously... How can ya'all reconcile this with ya'all's claims that you support the middle class??
Fact is, ya'all can't..
It's ALL about Party Loyalty... Nothing else matters..
Michale
WATCH: Trump Brings Man Up On Stage Who Was Forced To Train His Foreign Replacement
The presumptive Republican nominee explained, “I want to introduce though a man that’s worked here for many years, Mike. And Mike actually had the distinct lack of honor of training people from Mexico to take his job.”
http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/30/watch-trump-brings-man-up-on-stage-who-was-forced-to-train-his-foreign-replacement/
The Democrat Part *USED* to care about middle class workers like Mike...
That was before they sold their souls and the soul of their Party to the globalists, elitists and corporatists...
Seriously... How can ya'all reconcile this with ya'all's claims that you support the middle class??
Fact is, ya'all can't..
It's ALL about Party Loyalty... Nothing else matters..
Michale
“Brexit means Brexit. The campaign was fought, the vote was held, turnout was high and the public gave their verdict. There must be no attempts to remain inside the EU, no attempts to rejoin it through the back door and no second referendum. Politics isn’t a game.”
-British Home Secretary Theresa May
Well said, Madam Secretary...
In short??
Losers!? Quit whining.. Quit fear mongering.. You lost.
DEAL WITH IT...
Michale
http://www.wsj.com/articles/a-world-in-crisis-and-no-genius-in-sight-1467328674
Puts everything in perspective.. As Ms Noonan is wont to do...
Michale
I add only that the EU inculcated in its officials and apparatchiks an outrageous and insular snobbery that left them incapable of seeing critics as anything but ignorant, racist knuckle-draggers. They noticed, didn’t like it, and rebelled when they could.
Sound familiar to ya'all???
It should...
Michale
Attorney General Loretta E. Lynch plans to announce on Friday that she will accept whatever recommendation career prosecutors and the F.B.I. director make about whether to bring charges related to Hillary Clinton’s personal email server, a Justice Department official said. Her decision removes the possibility that a political appointee will overrule investigators in the case.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/02/us/politics/loretta-lynch-hillary-clinton-email-server.html
CLINTON IS TOAST...
Better get yer T-SHIRT ready, Joshua.. :D
Michale
I add only that the EU inculcated in its officials and apparatchiks an outrageous and insular snobbery that left them incapable of seeing critics as anything but ignorant, racist knuckle-draggers. They noticed, didn’t like it, and rebelled when they could.
Stand tall for the beast of America...
Lay down like a naked dead body,
keep it real for the people workin' overtime,
they can't stay living off the governments dime.
Stand tall for the people of America.
Stand tall for the man next door,
we are free in the land of America,
we ain't goin' down like this.
-BEAST, Nico Vega
Michale
Bill Clinton meets privately with AG Lynch **WHILE HE IS UNDER INVESTIGATION BY THE FBI**...
Yea... NOTHING inappropriate there.. :^/
You can bet if the parties involved had '-R's after their names, the entirety of the Left Wingery would be apoplectic...
Michale
What's the difference between an island that's part of Europe, and an island in the Atlantic near Europe but not part of it?
Michale wrote:
"Bill Clinton meets privately with AG Lynch **WHILE HE IS UNDER INVESTIGATION BY THE FBI"
EXCEPT, IT WAS NOT in private, it was on a PUBLIC airport tarmac. Also, it was initiated by Bill Clinton, and NOT by Lynch. While I agree it LOOKS inappropriate, at LEAST get your FACTS correct.
"A plan that kicked MILLIONS of Americans out of the healthcare plans that they LIKED and caused health care costs to SKY ROCKET"
EXCEPT, AGAIN, it has done no such thing! Health care cost increases have actually slowed dramatically due to the ACA's impact, compared to what they were, and that is a PROVEN FACT. Also, the number of Americans who had to switch plans, BECAUSE those plans did not meet the new standards, has been grossly exaggerated. I have also seen interviews and stories where they went back and interviewed again those people who had initially complained. Many of them now say they in fact like their new plans better, once they found out that they actually got MORE coverage at CHEAPER cost.
EXCEPT, IT WAS NOT in private, it was on a PUBLIC airport tarmac. Also, it was initiated by Bill Clinton, and NOT by Lynch.
It was in her PRIVATE aircraft...
PRIVATE meeting..
While I agree it LOOKS inappropriate
Hell ya, it's inappropriate...
at LEAST get your FACTS correct.
They always are... :D
EXCEPT, AGAIN, it has done no such thing! Health care cost increases have actually slowed dramatically due to the ACA's impact, compared to what they were, and that is a PROVEN FACT. Also, the number of Americans who had to switch plans, BECAUSE those plans did not meet the new standards, has been grossly exaggerated. I have also seen interviews and stories where they went back and interviewed again those people who had initially complained. Many of them now say they in fact like their new plans better, once they found out that they actually got MORE coverage at CHEAPER cost.
Yes.. That's the spin... And it's as accurate as If you like your healthcare plan, you can KEEP your healthcare plan....
Obama admin: Dropoff in Obamacare enrollment since January
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/national-politics/article87002882.html
The majority of Americans don't like TrainWreckCare...
The majority of Americans NEVER liked TrainWreckCare...
These are the facts. And they are indisputable...
Michale
What's the difference between an island that's part of Europe, and an island in the Atlantic near Europe but not part of it?
42
Michale