Pence? Kaine? Really?
Will one of the most exciting primary election seasons ultimately end in sheer boredom? That was my immediate reaction today to hearing the news that Donald Trump is all but set on selecting Mike Pence as his running mate, and that Hillary Clinton's first choice might just be Tim Kaine. After I yawned widely, of course. Pence? Kaine? Really? These are the best two choices for vice president around? Wow.
Considering who else is on both candidates' short lists, these would be the most spectacularly mundane selections possible, for both Trump and Clinton. Perhaps that is the point, I will readily concede. Perhaps after all the excitement at the top of the ticket, some boredom will balance things out on both sides of the aisle. In Kaine's case, that isn't even a slur, but rather a self-evaluation -- he appeared on a Sunday morning political chatfest a few weeks back and described himself as "boring."
Of course this all comes with the usual caveat. The selection is not final for either candidate (at least not as of this writing -- confirmation may have happened while I've been typing), and although the Trump campaign is heavily leaking that Pence will be the choice, Trump himself might just be doing this to troll the media, once again -- he could easily change his mind later today and offer the slot to either of his other two top choices, Chris Christie or Newt Gingrich. It'd just be one more example of Trump being Trump, eagerly proving all the media talking heads wrong. All the Pence rumor-mongering might just be a feint, in other words.
I have to admit that I've thought all along that Newt Gingrich was going to get the nod. I thought this long before he was considered a top contender, in fact. Trump and Gingrich seemed perfectly compatible, at least personality-wise. The same case might also be made for Chris Christie -- who originally planned to be the loud-mouthed bully in the Republican presidential race, before Trump proved to be so much better at it than him. Christie has certainly done all he can to weasel his way into the running mate spot, appearing (zombie-like) behind Trump in public, whenever asked. But Christie doesn't add much political heft to the ticket. His experience has all been in New Jersey, and Trump was said to be looking for someone with experience with Congress, to help him pass his agenda (should he be elected). Gingrich isn't as shouty as Christie (for the most part), but he is just as entertaining. Newt loves getting under Democrats' skins, and he's actually got solid experience getting under the Clintons' skins as well. He's got oodles of congressional experience too.
The only problem with Trump naming either Christie or Gingrich as his running mate is he would risk occasionally being overshadowed by them. Both men have a proven ability to say outrageous things of their own, and this might lead to them getting out in front of Trump on a particular issue. It would certainly be a change seeing Trump get asked what he thought about someone else's outrageousness, that's for sure, but you could easily see how this might annoy Trump. But Christie or Gingrich certainly would fill the "attack dog" role traditionally expected of the running mate, as neither one has ever shirked from sparring with anyone who disagrees with them.
But because Christie or Gingrich would make so much sense as Trump's running mate, it's pretty jarring to hear that he's apparently going with a much safer choice instead. Mike Pence hails from the conservative and religious wings of the Republican Party, and is acceptable to a wide spectrum of Republicans, from the Koch brothers to establishment Republicans to evangelicals to Tea Partiers. He is definitely the "safe choice" among those on Trump's shortlist. He is also not known for wild bombast, meaning he'll likely never overshadow Trump on the campaign trail. Pence would also avoid a very tough re-election race that he may well lose (in his own state, Indiana). So he's got to be overjoyed to be Trump's pick (something that a lot of Republicans quite obviously wouldn't be, this year).
Pence would obviously gain Trump some acceptance from wings of the party that have so far been reluctant (at best) to support him. It would calm a lot of big Republican donors, to put this another way. Trump would be seen as -- for the first time in the entire election season -- playing things safe and accepting a fairly establishment candidate as his running mate. When else has the phrase "playing it safe" been used about anything Trump has so far said and done, after all? Still, as a political observer, I have to say that Pence is about as boring a selection as could be imagined from a character like Donald Trump, so it's disappointing to me personally (I would point out, though, that I'm not exactly the target audience for being excited about a Republican veep pick).
If Trump picks Pence, that might open the door even wider for Hillary Clinton to choose Tim Kaine as her running mate. Clinton has plenty of other candidates to choose from, some of them quite exciting, but the Clintons have always been known for playing things fairly safe politically. In other words, Clinton picking Kaine isn't anywhere near as shocking as Trump picking Pence.
Hillary has even more to worry about when it comes to being overshadowed by a more-rousing running mate. Picking a firebrand like Elizabeth Warren would certainly excite a lot of Democratic voters, but that in and of itself is a problem for Clinton. She would continually face snarky questions from the press about why her running mate was so much more popular with the crowds than Hillary could manage. John McCain is the best recent example of how this can hurt the candidate at the top of the ticket, since Sarah Palin was so much more exciting on the campaign trail than McCain ever was. Warren isn't even the only one on Clinton's shortlist who might wind up overshadowing Hillary's own campaign.
Kaine is the safe choice all around. He's currently in the Senate, but in a seat from a state with a Democratic governor (who has close ties to the Clintons, coincidentally). This means he could safely be replaced by a Democrat, should Clinton win. Clinton might even get to have an influence on who gets picked to replace Kaine in the Senate. Kaine is from Virginia, which is increasingly becoming a Democratic state (the population is demographically moving to the blue column), but is still considered a swing state in presidential elections. Obama won the state twice, but before that it had reliably voted Republican in presidential years. Bill Clinton never managed to win Virginia, for instance, even though he did win other Southern states.
Of course, there's one obvious way Kaine is about as conventional a choice as could be imagined: he's a white guy. Now, with a woman at the top of the ticket, many have cautioned that picking another woman (Warren, for example) would be too much for some voters to deal with. Gender aside, though, Kaine isn't exactly anybody's idea of a diversity candidate. He is fluent in Spanish, but he's not a Latino -- when there are multiple impressive Latinos on Hillary's shortlist. America has had a black president for eight years, but it certainly would be inspiring to see the first Latino named to a national ticket for millions of voters. Kaine being interviewed on Spanish-language television isn't quite the same thing.
Kaine is a fairly safe choice ideologically as well. He's not exactly known as a firebrand (he laughingly describes himself as "boring," please remember), so he'd never be in danger of overshadowing Clinton in any way. And if Trump is going the boring route, it would be easy for Clinton to also choose to walk the same path.
Even so, who could have predicted that the veep choices would be such a snooze-fest? In a year where Trump blew away all records for outrageousness on the campaign trail and Hillary Clinton fought a very hard fight against an aging Democratic Socialist who excited millions of young people, who would have thought that we'd all be yawning into our hands over their running mates? Mike Pence? Tim Kaine? Who? Really? Wow. Excuse me... (big yawn)... I think I need to take a nap or something....
-- Chris Weigant
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
Looks like Trump went ahead and confirmed Pence while I was writing and posting this.
Please ignore the third paragraph, above...
-CW
I wonder if Pence (if he gets the nod) would be Trumpie's choice so that Trumpie can back out? The way this convention is shaping up I think it's going to be seen as just dreadful and if Trump doesn't get the genuflecting he's expecting after his big show it wouldn't surprise me at all to see him find some excuse to weasel out. Then the RNC can step in and back Pence.
HRC and Kaine - yeah, bit of a bore. More interesting may be who she selects for key cabinet positions.
Today's anecdote: walking dog.
Black woman (39) on her front porch, 3 kids playing in yard. She was very pretty, nicely dressed.
Said she'd never given or received "the talk". Said she'd heard about "the talk on social media. Said she has a friend who is a policeman who told her how to act with the police. She said she believes the idea of police brutality is exaggerated.
She thanked me for asking for her thoughts and caring about the question.
Sweet woman.
I think Julian Castro would be a good fit for Clinton. He's young, Latino, three time Mayor of San Antonio Texas, and is well liked. He supports immigration reform, women's health rights, LGBT rights, gun control and is just as boring as Kaine.
Due to the Nice terrist, Trump has postponed the announcement scheduled for tomorrow. Blingrich has a few more hours to stick a knife in Mike P's back. Holy Callista!
These are the best two choices for vice president around? Wow.
And that, of course, is to say nothing of the two substantially flawed presidential candidates. Wow, indeed.
Gingrich quit his TV commentator job supposedly b/c he thought he was gonna be VP. Whoops!
Paula,
I have been saying all along that I cannot imagine Trump staying in the race because of how it would effect his brand if he were to lose (not to mention what it would do to his fragile ego if he were to lose to a WOMAN)! I really thought his attack on McCain's time as a POW and dishonoring military vets was Trump wanting an excuse to get out of the race. I don't know if his need for attention overrode his desire to avoid being embarrassed or what, but I definitely think he's gonna have some surprises prepared for the RNC...because that's what every reality TV show needs for ratings!
Ryan Holiday wrote an amazing article called "Dear Dad, Please Don't Vote for Donald Trump" over at HuffPost. One line from it that I thought was about as perfect of a statement as I have heard regarding Trump's candidacy:
"The baffling reality is that when it comes to Trump, it’s difficult to critique him on much besides his personality and (lack of) character — because that is all there is.
And with these choices...the establishment has ensured that the Middle Class continues to get the shaft.
For POTUS we have two individuals under investigation for criminal activity, both beholden to their corporate interest blocks, and have no real intention of doing anything to help the average joe. ANND, just to toss it out there it makes both of them ineligible to hold a security clearance...
For VP we have two, albeit well qualified bureaucrats, that will keep their heads down and trod down what ever road they are told. Should something happen to one of the POTUS they will be good minions that the corporate masters can rely on to steer their agendas through.
Awesome choices....NOT!
Well folks, I guess all that is left is for us to pick which interest block we want to be holding the big floppy dick as they stick it to us...
Talk about disillusionment...
gt,
At least, Hillary Clinton has the potential for being a good president.
How will the middle class get the shaft under a Clinton administration?
Said she'd never given or received "the talk". Said she'd heard about "the talk on social media. Said she has a friend who is a policeman who told her how to act with the police. She said she believes the idea of police brutality is exaggerated.
Yep....
Police Brutality is like White Privilege and Institutionalized Racism.
They are boogeymen that the Left Wingery likes to fear-monger with..
But they don't actually exist in real life..
Yes, sometimes police are brutal.. Sometimes it's even unjustified...
Yes... Some white people are racist and think they are privilege...
But NONE of them are anywhere NEAR the levels that the Left Wingery likes to claim...
It's ALL about ideology and keeping people dependent on Democrats...
Michale
Due to the Nice terrist, Trump has postponed the announcement scheduled for tomorrow.
But.... but.... how can their be terrorism!!???
Hussein Odumbo has said that ISIS is the JV!!
Hussein Odumbo has said that ISIS is contained!!!!
W.T.F.!!!!!
Michale
Due to the Nice terrist, Trump has postponed the announcement scheduled for tomorrow.
And, oh my gods!! Why is it so easy for someone to just plop down some cash and walk away with a truck!!! Don't people understand what a huge killing machine that is!!!
BAN TRUCKS!!! BAN TRUCKS!!! BAN TRUCKS!!!
:^/
Michale
I am going to drag my comment from yesterday here, as it seems more relevant..
apophis,
Love typing that!! :D
Haven't a clue who Clinton will pick. Probably won't be Warren. Her and Hilly don't really get along and Wall St. says NO. What's your guess?..
Because of the fight over the Senate, I don't think Reid will let Hillary choose any sitting Senator that would flip the seat to the GOP...
And I agree that Hillary and Warren are not likely. As I have said, Hillary is as much of an egoist as Trump is, she's just better at hiding it. Warren will upstage Hillary and Hillary will not like that...
Franken is a good possibility, but the ads write themselves..
THE VP IS A JOKE
A good VP pick is designed to shore up the candidate with a constituency that the candidate has a problem with... Hillary doesn't need a bandaid for the hispanic vote, so it's likely not Castro...
Hillary needs help with the Youth Vote, so it's likely going to be Miley Cyrus....
That will also get Hillary the druggie and tongue-wagger vote as well..
Michale
"The baffling reality is that when it comes to Trump, it’s difficult to critique him on much besides his personality and (lack of) character — because that is all there is.
In other words, the Left Wingery's ONLY has personal attacks on Trump...
Nothing substantial... :D
That sums it up perfectly...
Michale
For POTUS we have two individuals under investigation for criminal activity,
Actually, only Hillary is under investigation for criminal activity..
Trump's issue is civil and is simply a campaign attack tactic more than a real civil suit..
Once Trump wins the election, the lawsuit will be withdrawn..
Well folks, I guess all that is left is for us to pick which interest block we want to be holding the big floppy dick as they stick it to us...
Talk about disillusionment...
You shouldn't keep it all bottled up inside, GT..
Tell us how you REALLY feel.. :D
Michale
CW,
As I said above or afore, Hillary and Trump are both raving egoists... Even worse than our POTUS, if that is possible...
Neither would choose a running mate that it going to upstage themselves..
That's why dull is the order of the day..
"Wait! I can be dull. Want me to be dull? What a nice shade of gray. How about some white bread with mayonnaise? Want to watch golf on television?"
-Urgo, STARGATE SG1
:D
Michale
Liz,
How will the middle class get the shaft under a Clinton administration?
Yer kidding, right???
Michale
GOP leaders kill plan by anti-Trump movement to unbind delegates' votes
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/07/15/gop-leaders-kill-plan-by-anti-trump-movement-to-unbind-delegates-votes.html
And another attempt by the Anti-Trump fanatics to change the rules..
You Anti-Trumpeters??? You lost...
Get over it. Quit whining...
Michale
This latest terrorist attack must be just KILLING the Odumbo Administration.. It must be tying them in knots...
No way to push the totally BS and totally useless Gun Control agenda of the Demcorats...
Michale
Trump's issue is civil and is simply a campaign attack tactic more than a real civil suit..
Not so. There are several fraud investigations against Trump, particularly regarding Trump University and the Trump Institute. There would be an active fraud investigation(s) against Trump in New Jersey, if Trump hadn't taken the Governor hostage.
@Liz: How will the middle class get the shaft under a Clinton administration?
Yer kidding, right???
Nope, not kidding. It looks like the GOP, who brought us Savings and Loan Scandals, several downgrades of the national credit rating, and of course, the Great Recession, is going to spend yet another election cycle telling us how much better they are at spending our money.
Ironically the Great Orange Bullshit Machine started out this campaign as an economic progressive, suggesting massive increases in taxes for the rich. That was quickly squashed, and Grump's plan now looks like any other GOP plan. I guess there are places where even Trump won't go after all, and this was one of them.
This is also an example of one place that Bernie fans can proudly point to: getting single-payer health care and means-tested college tuition into the Democratic platform. These ideas poll very high with the Middle class, who dream of never again having to deal with Humana or Kaiser-Permanente or any other insurer about their health care bills, ever.
Not so. There are several fraud investigations against Trump, particularly regarding Trump University and the Trump Institute.
By all means.. Cite the facts.. :D
Nope, not kidding. It looks like the GOP, who brought us Savings and Loan Scandals, several downgrades of the national credit rating, and of course, the Great Recession, is going to spend yet another election cycle telling us how much better they are at spending our money.
Ironically the Great Orange Bullshit Machine started out this campaign as an economic progressive, suggesting massive increases in taxes for the rich. That was quickly squashed, and Grump's plan now looks like any other GOP plan. I guess there are places where even Trump won't go after all, and this was one of them.
This is also an example of one place that Bernie fans can proudly point to: getting single-payer health care and means-tested college tuition into the Democratic platform. These ideas poll very high with the Middle class, who dream of never again having to deal with Humana or Kaiser-Permanente or any other insurer about their health care bills, ever.
None of which has ANY relevance to Liz's question...
Michale
Let me save you a lot of time and futility..
Under Obama the Middle Class has been scrooed.. There is no denying this as the facts are clear...
Hillary is running for Obama's third term..
Ergo, the Middle Class will continue to get scrooed under Hillary..
"Simple logic.."
-Admiral James T Kirk, STAR TREK 6, The Search For Spock
Michale
Actually, only Hillary is under investigation for criminal activity..
Trump's issue is civil and is simply a campaign attack tactic more than a real civil suit..
Ummm...What is it I've had someone say something like this to me before in this situation....Oh, I got it...
Of course YOU would say that. See that's the problem with ya'all rightwingers you have selective moral code enforcement issues, the minute someone points out a truth you do not like you equivocate it away all the while you hold some one else to a higher standard...
If one uses the standard applied by the right to HRC, The simple fact is that TRUMP is under investigation for criminal wrongdoing...Fraud is Fraud and is against the law.
Once Trump wins the election, the lawsuit will be withdrawn..
So since I was born at night...Let me get this straight. You are suggesting that way back in 2010 and 2013 some people had a crystal ball that told them Donald would be running for president 6 years later (ok.. let's call it 5 and 2) and so in an effort to make him look bad and keep him from winning they filed these suits and as soon as he is president they will drop the suits (we will ignore that they are class action) because their fortune telling didn't work?
Under Hussein Odumbo, the rich have gotten richer..
This is documented fact...
Michale
If one uses the standard applied by the right to HRC, The simple fact is that TRUMP is under investigation for criminal wrongdoing...Fraud is Fraud and is against the law.
Yes.. If you want to split the hairs on what the definition of IS is...
The simple fact remains that ALL of the cases against Trump are CIVIL cases...
This is fact that no amount of Party BS can change..
You are suggesting that way back in 2010 and 2013 some people had a crystal ball that told them Donald would be running for president 6 years later (ok.. let's call it 5 and 2) and so in an effort to make him look bad and keep him from winning they filed these suits and as soon as he is president they will drop the suits (we will ignore that they are class action) because their fortune telling didn't work?
I am suggesting nothing of the sort..
I simply state that once Trump wins the election, the lawsuit will be dropped..
Just like once Obama won the 2012 election we would never hear about Benghazi again.. :D
Michale
Of course YOU would say that. See that's the problem with ya'all rightwingers you have selective moral code enforcement issues, t
If you were talking to a right winger, you would have a point..
But yer not, so you don't.. :D
Michale
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnaMB1aWAAAvZuw.jpg
"It was a youtube video that was responsible.."
Hussein Odumbo... At his finest....
Michale
Yes.. If you want to split the hairs on what the definition of IS is...
I'm not the one splitting hairs here... I'm just applying your standards..Just sayin'.
The simple fact remains that ALL of the cases against Trump are CIVIL cases...
And are the basis for follow on criminal charges...not to mention the fact that state AG's are investigating him, at least the ones who didn't take the money...
I'm not the one splitting hairs here... I'm just applying your standards..Just sayin'.
Even if you were, which you are not, it's funny you apply my standards when it suits your narrative...
Suffice it to say that Trump is not being criminally investigated..
Crooked Hillary is..
These are the facts of the case. And they are undisputed."
-Captain 'Smilin' Jack Ross
nd are the basis for follow on criminal charges..
That's your supposition.. That's your wish-casting..
Unsupported by any facts...
Michale
Under Obama the Middle Class has been scrooed.. There is no denying this as the facts are clear...
Okay, let's look at the facts:
1. We've now had 75 straight months of economic expansion. In fact, a Sep 5, 2014 article in Forbes stated that Obama actually outperforms Reagan on Jobs, Growth and In.
2. We are currently enjoying the longest period of private sector job creation in American history. Source: see Forbes article above.
3. Unemployment has dropped from 10.1% in October of 2009 to 4.9% by early 2016. That's twelve million jobs created/recovered in eight years. Romney famously promised to lower unemployment to 6% by the end of 2016.
4. The Federal budget deficit is shrinking. It’s been reduced by two-thirds since 2009. Source: usgovernmentspending.com/federal_deficit_chart
5. For 95% of American taxpayers, income taxes are as low or lower than they were at almost any point in the last 50 years. Source: Center on Budget and Policy Priorities
That's not counting the nearly 20 million people who now have health insurance who didn't, the surging stock market, or booming energy sector, including low gas prices.
Are there still things to do for the middle class? You betcha' Radar Ranger. The minimum wage needs to be raised, and tuitions lowered. America is also long, long overdue for a massive infrastructure upgrade. How would all that hurt the middle class? I dunno. I'm sure you'll think of something.
Just like once Obama won the 2012 election we would never hear about Benghazi again..
BwaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Oh, oh, HAHAHAHAHA. Oh, that's rich.
And why can't Trump release his tax returns again?
and with the go to "I have not done my research" movie quote.. I see our discussion has achieved terminal logic velocity...
I guess we will have to agree to disagree...
Wrote a reply on economics, but the system ate it.
That's your supposition.. That's your wish-casting..
And, trust me.. If there is ANYONE who knows about wish-casting, it's me!! :D
Michale
And why can't Trump release his tax returns again?
Same reason Crooked Hillary can't release the speech transcripts..
Michale
I guess we will have to agree to disagree...
Agreed..
Common ground.. A wonderful thing.. :D
Michale
Hillary's speech transcripts are being audited?
P.S. there is no law against releasing tax returns that are being audited..
Hillary's speech transcripts are being audited?
See how you are making excuses?? :D
It's clear that the tax returns have unflattering information in them that Trump would not want to be known...
It's EQUALLY clear that Hillary's speech transcripts ALSO have unflattering information that Hillary would not want known..
*I* am objective enough to see the FACTS..
YOU are only interested in the spin...
Crooked Hillary good..
Donald Trump bad....
That's your black/white world...
It's not mine..
Michale
Balthasar [35/31] -
Aha! For once, the filter worked as it is supposed to...
Your comment got held because you included multiple links. If you've got two links to share, you've got to split them into two comments. This is done to cut down on spam comments, and is automatic.
Just for all new commenters' information... only post one link per comment, and you should be OK.
:-)
-CW
Thanks Chris, I'll remember that. ;)
BwaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Oh, oh, HAHAHAHAHA. Oh, that's rich.
Yea, I thought it was pretty hilarious at the time as well.. :D
Michale
Crooked Hillary good..Donald Trump bad....
That's your black/white world...
No, it's Hillary good, Poor Donald bad. It's a winner-take-all contest, so the binary choice is baked-in.
And now that [31] is up, I'm sure there's lots you'd like to refute..
No, it's Hillary good, Poor Donald bad. It's a winner-take-all contest, so the binary choice is baked-in.
Like I said.. In this issue your world is black/white...
Crooked Hillary- Good...
Donald Trump- Bad...
My world... REALITY.... shades of gray...
Michale
And now that [31] is up, I'm sure there's lots you'd like to refute..
To easy...
Under Obamanomics, the Rich Get Richer While the Poor Get Poorer
http://www.progressivestoday.com/under-obamanomics-the-rich-get-richer-while-the-poor-get-poorer/
Michale
You could have picked a less partisan expert than Peter Ferrara, contributor to Fox News, and serial re-writer of Reagan administration history.
His numbers are all on the slippery side, beginning with the fact that median household incomes began to fall well before Obama took office. He consistently conflates long-term trends with with policy outcomes, and ignores inconvenient facts, such as the fact that hourly wages have risen since Obama came into office.
But you have proven something: that even good economic news can be made to look bad by rightie economists.
You could have picked a less partisan expert than Peter Ferrara, contributor to Fox News, and serial re-writer of Reagan administration history.
His numbers are all on the slippery side, beginning with the fact that median household incomes began to fall well before Obama took office. He consistently conflates long-term trends with with policy outcomes, and ignores inconvenient facts, such as the fact that hourly wages have risen since Obama came into office.
But you have proven something: that even good economic news can be made to look bad by rightie economists.
Ya like how I use a progressive web site to disprove your Odumbo-love assertions and expose your Messiah for the phony Middle Class Warrior that he is???
Personally, I thought it was a nice touch.. :D
Hussein Odumbo has been a disaster for the black community and a disaster for the Middle Class..
Crooked Hillary will just be more of the same..
That is why she is going to lose...
Michale
Filtered again. Damn. And with only one link, and then again with NO link. This filter suddenly does not like me.
Doesn't really matter..
All it would be is ODUMBO is perfect, ODUMBO is god, ODUMBO can do no wrong clap trap...
Odumbo's agenda's days are numbered... :D
Michale
[47] Michale: Ya like how I use a progressive web site to disprove your Odumbo-love assertions and expose your Messiah for the phony Middle Class Warrior that he is???
You don't disprove anything. You go through the motions. You physically post words and links. You respond to other peoples' words and links. But the content of your posts consistently fail to refute other people's posts/points.
I said the other day you can't argue. You can't. You said you don't argue, you "debate".
Debates are equal parts theater/performance and content. You go through the motions of performance but totally blow the content.
You're very like Trump that way. He stands there and his mouth opens and words come out. But he reveals his ignorance over and over. And his inconsistent and incoherent ideas. Trump is a conduit for emotion and most of the emotion he transmits is destructive.
It will be amazing when he's on a stage with HRC. C-A-N-N-O-T W-A-I-T-!
Paula,
You DO realize that you did NOTHING to refute the facts of the link, but rather just attacked me personally, right?? :D
It will be amazing when he's on a stage with HRC.
Yes, it will.. Trump is going to tear Hillary apart... Hillary is going to be "uh... uh... but the definition of IS is... uh... uh.... But, your hair is funny!! uh... uh... "....
In that, she is going to be JUST like you here... :D
Michale
Can't wait for the rebuttal...
last try:
Ya like how I use a progressive web site to disprove your Odumbo-love assertions and expose your Messiah for the phony Middle Class Warrior that he is???
There's been a rash of 'progressive' websites popping up that aren't progressive at all, trying to lure Bernie fans away from Hillary. That particular article quotes a well known right wing economist who used to work in the Reagan administration, and is known for cherry-picking facts to make his points.
I might as well try to make you accept a quote from Krugman.
That particular article quotes a well known right wing economist who used to work in the Reagan administration, and is known for cherry-picking facts to make his points.
Yea... JUST like progressives do.. :D
Michale
Matter of fact, just like ALL of you do.. :D
So, what's yer point?? :D
Michale
apophis,
Can't wait for the rebuttal...
Chances are, there won't be any rebuttal...
The SOP around here is when facts are displayed, people scatter... :D
Michale
Case in point...
http://www.chrisweigant.com/2016/07/08/ftp399/
:D
Michale
I'd expand on Liz's question and ask, "How is the middle class going to be screwed more by Hillary than they would be by Trump?" This was part of the problem I had with the GOP when I considered myself a Republican -- their focus was on everyone that wasn't considered by most to be part of the "middle class"! But they got away with this simply by telling the middle class that these people were the cause of all of their problems.
"Immigrants are taking the jobs away from Americans!" Who has ever lost their job to an undocumented alien? Seriously! What junior accountant working for a corporation has ever been told he was fired as Paco was willing to do his job for much less? So what if he doesn't speak English, math is a universal language! Yet, these folks buy into the lie. Heck, they even blame illegals that come here for the jobs outsourced by corporations to other countries, as if those that come here had anything to do with it!
They are still against marriage equality, something that does not affect them in any way, shape, or form; but they just cannot handle the thought of gays being treated just as well as they are. This is mainly led by those that are closet cases and cannot stand that they got stuck living a lie, so they don't want anyone else to be free to be themselves and happy.
"Immigrants are taking the jobs away from Americans!" Who has ever lost their job to an undocumented alien?
Do you see how you just switched arguments in mid-sentence???
I hope you didn't get whiplash with that 180.. :D
Michale
I would also point out how you slam Trump for being a typical GOP'er, but yet it's well known that the GOP that YOU slam hate Trump as much as you do...
Your arguments are all over the place...
Michale
Trump was hiring gay people and being on record as supporting gays while the Clintons were pushing and supporting the Defense Of Marriage act..
But why let FACTS intrude on a hysterical and baseless rant.. :D
Michale
when facts are displayed, people scatter.
Funny, I distinctly recall displaying facts. Undisputed by any 'facts' presented in that article, by the way - I looked. As Paula said in her post: "the content of your posts consistently fail to refute other people's posts/points."
I do realize how hard it must be to be on the other side of this argument: the GOP is divided into two, maybe three wings, all equally clueless. The social conservatives are still fighting porn twenty years after it became available to everybody on the internet. They couldn't stop it when it was distributed on postcards, and think they can somehow stop it now?
The establishment Republicans think they've just won a victory by getting Trump to pick Pence, but most of them aren't going to the convention, and, after being flounced in the Spring, are left wondering if they have any support among the rank-and-file at all.
The Tea Party and Grievance Republicans are ascendant right now, ready to march their party off a high cliff to prove how pissed they are at the state of American politics. They've been smacking the GOP around for awhile; it's like a dysfuntional relationship.
In fact, back when the GOP were the Whigs, the same thing happened to them, and they finally wised up and left the bastard(s), changing their name to republicans.
Maybe after they (inevitably) lose the election, the GOP will wise up and dump this horrible relationship for a second time. Breaking up is hard to do, but it's really hard to watch this abuse continue.
[58] Listen: yep! The Repubs have incuded "gay conversion therapy" in their platform. I believe I read they want to defund Planned Parenthood as well. And on and on. Their platform is just a ridiculous mix of junk-politics. Well, ridiculous and horrifying.
[62] Balthasar: yep!!
This Pence thing. On FB it's going nuts with stuff about Trump wanting to back out on Pence last night and there's already an animated gif showing the "T" in the logo bonking the "P". I think it must be really humiliating for Trump's campaign. I would hate to be caught as the leaker -- Trump will sue whoever for millions. He'll probably sue whatever poor schmuck? mischief-maker? designed the logo as well.
Meanwhile people are backing out of appearing at the RNC Convention -- I really can't imagine what they're going to cobble together at this point that won't fall flat or be seen as other than ludicrious/pathetic.
Not a good day for the Donald.
included
Apparently, Trump's bubble isn't as air-tight as it could be due to Trump himself. You see, left by himself last night, he started calling some old friends, and they were the ones who leaked Trump's misgivings to the press.
He'll be dandy at keeping secrets.
Trump picks Pence. The people in Indiana are dancing in the streets...
A perfect match. A xenophobe, racist, misogynist, and a low key moron. I've been tracking Pence since he was in Congress. A real piece of work...
Balthasar,
Everything you say about the GOP is more or less true...
Your problem is that the same things are ALSO true about the Democrat Party...
:D
You really can't debate me by calling into question my Party loyalty..
Because, you see.. Unlike you.. I have none...
And THAT is ya'all's Achilles Heel.. Ya'all's kryptonite...
:D
Michale
Not a good day for the Donald.
Except Trump's numbers are going UP and Hillary's are going down...
A few more "non" good days for Trump and it'll be a landslide.. :D
You see my point??
You don't deal in FACTS... You are enslaved by Party Loyalty and that colors EVERYTHING you think...
Michale
A Military Coup in Turkey...
What has Hussein Odumbo gotten us into now.. :^/
Michale
He'll be dandy at keeping secrets.
This, coming from the guy who supports the bitch who was "extremely careless" while running the State Dept..
You realize you have absolutely NO CREDIBILITY in that regard, right?? :D
Michale
Balthasar-
The establishment Republicans think they've just won a victory by getting Trump to pick Pence...
I think the conservative wing is hoping for a last second hail mary to save their cause. I think the deal between Trump and the GOP leadership is the leadership gets to pick or at least have influence over the VP pick in trade for support of Trump. Their thinking is ride Trump's coattails in to office then let Trump be Trump. Give him as much rope as he needs to hang himself. He is already proposing unconstitutional policies, it's likely to just get worse especially once the left starts gumming up the works so little gets through congress. The left is so disbelieving/hysterical that they are putting Trump somewhere between Satin and Hitler. Let them call for impeachment and take the blame, then have enough safe district "principled" conservatives vote to kick Trump out of office along with the left. Trump is completely discredited, they get a classic conservative in the white house who is not Ted Cruz and all is well and good with the world. Except Trump seems to have an endless supply of rope, hangs himself daily only to be fresh the next morning. It's making holding on to those coattails a bit difficult...
As Clinton stumbles, Trump takes an apparent slim lead in new tracking poll
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-usc-lat-tracking-poll-20160705-snap-story.html
Yea... "bad day" for Trump...
Bbbwwwhahahahahahahahahahahahaha :D
The left is so disbelieving/hysterical that they are putting Trump somewhere between Satin and Hitler.
Satin???
Some sort of Left Wingery Femme Fatale waiting in the wings??? :D
heh
Michale
Satan...
Ahhhhh.. That makes sense now.. :D
Trump is between Satan and Hitler...
And ya'all ding ME for hyperbole.. :D
heh
That's our Left Wingery...
Ad Hypocritus Maximus.... :D
Michale
I've been saying for awhile now that the choice is between a hysterical woman and Hillary. :)
Heh.
Michael [58]
I was referring to illegal immigrants. I have never heard anyone complaining about legal immigrants taking the jobs of Americans. So, no, not doing a 180.
Paula [63]
The Repubs have incuded "gay conversion therapy" in their platform.
Ahhhh, yes, good ole' Camp-Kill-Yourself! There's a particularly nasty place in Hell set aside for the people who run those places!
Michale wrote:
These are the facts of the case. And they are undisputed."
-Captain 'Smilin' Jack Ross
And my counter riposte would be:
“In critical moments, men sometimes see exactly what they wish to see.” - Spock, Star Trek, TOS, season 3, episode 9 (“The Tholian Web,” 1968)
Indeed.
Listen,
I was referring to illegal immigrants. I have never heard anyone complaining about legal immigrants taking the jobs of Americans. So, no, not doing a 180.
Really???
http://www.ibtimes.com/undocumented-immigrants-taking-jobs-us-citizens-most-americans-believe-immigration-2054509
Then, apparently, you are not er... Listening.. :D
Michale
But, you DID do a 180..
"Immigrants are taking the jobs away from Americans!" Who has ever lost their job to an undocumented alien?
You first mention "Immigrants" then you finish with illegal immigrants..
Which is it??
Michale
John M,
“In critical moments, men sometimes see exactly what they wish to see.” - Spock, Star Trek, TOS, season 3, episode 9 (“The Tholian Web,” 1968)
Indeed.. Which explains why ya'all support someone like Hillary...
Michale
Okay, let's look at the facts:
Okay, let's look at the cherry picked facts:
There.... Fixed it for you...
Michale
Because I can find just as many facts, if not MORE facts, that "prove" how bad things are under Hussein Odumbo..
But all the facts in the world won't erase the ONLY relevant fact..
If you ask Joe and Jane Sixpack if their lives are better now after 7+ years of Democrat rule...
Their answer will be a loud and resounding HELL NO!!
How do we know this??
Because over 70% of Americans SAY this...
"Just the fax, ma'am.. Just the fax"
-John McClane, DIE HARD 3, A GOOD DAY TO DIE HARD
:D
Michale
Mike Pence is a perfectly reasonable choice, given that Ted Baxter of WJM is unavailable.
Well, Pence could color his hair like Crooked Hillary does.. :^/
By the bi....
"Welcome to the party, pal!!!"
-John McClane, DIE HARD
:D
Michale