Cleveland, Day One
I'm writing this while watching all of Day One of the Republican National Convention. I apologize in advance for the rather stream-of-consciousness nature of the post, but I also caution that you should get used to it, because we are in for two weeks of convention-palooza.
The Republicans went first this year, and it is actually notable that Day One is even happening. For the past two presidential election cycles, Mother Nature intervened and Republicans canceled their first day (in 2008 it was Hurricane Gustav, and in 2012 Hurricane Isaac that pre-empted the start of the GOP convention). Make of that what you will, I suppose.
I turned on the campaign coverage early today just in time to catch the big floor fight among the delegates. Call it the final death throes of the "Never Trump" movement. After being blocked by the rules committee, this was their final protest -- an attempt to get a vote on changing the convention's rules to unbind all the delegates on the first vote. The dissenters thought they had enough votes to at least force a roll call vote on the rules, but after some back-room dealing, the convention chair announced that he had strong-armed several states into dropping their names from the bid -- making it small enough (by the rules) to be ignored.
There was some shouting back and forth between the two camps. At least two states' delegations reportedly walked out in protest. These clips will undoubtedly be shown on the evening news tonight, because it was the best example of how divided the Republican Party still is over the question of supporting Donald Trump. One New Hampshire delegate (a former senator) on the "Never Trump" side later denounced the convention denying them their chance for a vote, claiming the people on the other side "act like fascists. They may not be fascists but they act like fascists." He later called them "people I would refer to as brownshirts." For those unaware, this is not usually the sort of thing heard from the floor of a national convention. To say the least.
We then had a large break in the action, as the journalists scrambled to fill the airwaves until the main evening show began. Some interesting tidbits -- Trump put the Ohio delegation in a corner, because he was annoyed that Governor John Kasich was blowing off the convention (as indeed were many prominent Republicans, including the entire Bush clan). The hosting state usually gets a prime floor spot, but not Ohio -- which is, incidentally, one of the big key states Trump must win in November.
What else? Outside, the demonstrations seem to be a lot more low-key than predicted, at least so far. A pro-Trump rally and an anti-Trump rally both only drew "hundreds, not thousands" by some accounts, and the two sides are being kept so far apart that there haven't been any problems, so far. An outfit calling itself the "Western Ohio Militia" walked around carrying assault weapons, much to the delight of the cameras, but that was about all the reporters outside had to report on.
It's also been reported that Reince Priebus nixed Trump's plan to invite Don King to speak, which surely would have been... um... splendiforously amazingtastic? Or something. Speaking of having fun with the English language, the funniest thing I've read yet on the convention came from the Washington Post, an entire article written in one-syllable words, in homage to Trump's speaking style. Check it out if you want a laugh.
In the "shouldn't be funny, of course, but really is" category comes this photo of a sign pointing to the "White Elevators" -- whoever signed off on that piece of idiocy obviously should be fired forthwith. I believe they took the sign down, but still... talk about unintended irony.
There was some more irony over the weekend that most people missed. You decide whether this one was intended or not -- I kind of lean towards "planned," myself. Reportedly, when Donald Trump walked on stage to announce his running mate, the song that was playing was "You Can't Always Get What You Want." Hoo boy, Mike Pence is going to have to get used to such slights, because there will probably be a few more before he's done.
OK, enough random impressions. What follows are my impressions of the lineup of speakers for Day One. I didn't listen to every minute from all of them, but I did hear enough to at least get the flavor of each of them. Then at the end, I'll give a few overall impressions to end on.
The proceedings opened with another bit of musical irony. After a mini-floor fight and shouting match, what I assume was an ex-Turtle belted out "Happy Together." A nice sentiment, if belied by the party's truly divided nature.
First up, for some unfathomable reason, was one of the Duck Dynasty clan, wearing an American flag-themed headband. I wondered what Abbie Hoffman would have had to say about that, personally, but whatever.
After he bashed the media for a bit and then left the stage, we next got an episode of Chachi Loves Donnie. No, really -- after promising us a star-studded convention, all Trump could get was Chachi? Wow. That's just sad. Chachi helpfully explained to "first-time voters" what it meant to be an American. Or, specifically, what it doesn't mean: "It doesn't mean getting free stuff." Um, OK, Chachi. Wonder what Joanie and the Fonz think....
Rick Perry then became the first speaker to giddily ramble through his allotted time without ever actually using Donald Trump's name. Oops!
We then hit one of the two "theme" periods of the night (the other, immigrant-bashing, came later). I didn't write down every word, but I did jot down the gist of what was said, for approximately the next 40 minutes or so:
"Benghazi! Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi. Benghazi? Benghazi! Benghazi -- Benghazi. Benghazi: Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi. Benghazi... Benghazi... Benghazi... Benghazi. Benghazi?!? Benghazi. BenGHAZI? Benghazi! BENghazi! BENGHAZI! BENGHAZI!! BENGHAZI!!!"
This may not have been a 100-percent-accurate transcript, but I think you get the point. This spectacle included a mother of one of the dead, an bizarre little movie, and then two guys trying to be the most macho, blunt-talkin', blue-jeans-wearin' ex-soldiers you'd ever meet, complete with the sorriest attempts at humor all night long (which is really saying something, seeing as how many politicians think they're comedians themselves).
The conversation then shifted straight into the anti-immigrant part of the show, where we had a whole bunch of family members of victims of crimes by undocumented immigrants. In other words, the Latino-outreach part of the show! Just kidding (although they certainly weren't).
I had to sit and wonder where this newfound "loving of victims" comes from, in the GOP. They used to regularly sneer at Democrats for this sort of thing, and now they've apparently embraced it. But I also had to notice that all this frenzy of fear-mongering actually fell a little flat, at least when compared to years gone by. Even with all the anti-terrorist language from multiple speakers (for instance), it kind of paled in comparison to what Republicans used to say in the "Global War On Terror" years, at least to my ears. Representative Mike Somebody-or-another from Texas had the best line in this vein ("Are you safer than you were eight years ago"), but for the most part it all seemed a little uninspiring, at best. But maybe it was just me getting numb from hearing it all over and over again, who knows?
We also had a lot of pro-cops speakers, an obvious choice with what's been happening over the last two weeks. Trump is reportedly reading over Richard Nixon's "law and order" convention speech himself, but so far it's been pretty perfunctory ("Blue lives matter!").
By this time, my notes were reflecting my weariness. One speaker I just listed as "some white guy: war, Hillary-bashing" for instance, which could actually cover a number of the middle-hours speakers. The only notable moment for me during this period was when Representative Sean Somebody used a line that seemed kind of prophetic and a bit too honest for Republicans: "We have won every election except the big one." If they lose this "big one" too, a lot of people are going to start saying Republicans will never win another presidential election for a generation, unless they fundamentally change the way they do things (the GOP candidate has lost five of the last six popular votes for president, so "six out of seven" could be the breaking point).
Senator Jeff Sessions began speaking right before the prime-time hour of coverage (around 7:00, Pacific time). He went through his stock anti-immigrant comments, complete with a call to "Build the wall!" but was most notable for the first protester of the night inside the hall (there was another one, later, during Giuliani's time on stage). While Sessions usually can be counted on for a pretty fiery speech, he was instantly overshadowed by the man who followed him.
There's just no other way to put it -- Rudy Giuliani absolutely came unhinged on national television tonight. His speech -- really the first one seen in full by those tuning in to the broadcast networks' hour of coverage -- was one long, shouty anger-fest. After Clint Eastwood's talking-to-an-empty-chair performance, you'd think the Republicans would learn who to put on at the top of the big hour of the night, but Rudy ranted for a solid 20 minutes or so without ever lowering his voice from the volume you'd use to yell for a cab on the streets of New York. I mean, at least he woke up the crowd, but he was so over-the-top almost from his first sentence that I had to wonder what sort of impression this was having on independent voters out there. Just one sample quote from Rudy: "Islamic! Extremist! Terrorism! You know who you are! And we're coming to get you!" And no, I'm not exaggerating with those exclamation points.
Gwen Ifill of PBS had the best comment, at the end of Rudy's anger-fest: "Giuliani's had his Wheaties tonight!" But then immediately, attention returned to the stage, where Donald Trump himself appeared (complete with spotlights and a fog machine) to introduce his wife. After several repetitions of "We're going to win so big!" he actually gave a very brief introduction (he stuck to what was on the TelePrompTer, in other words).
Melania Trump, in all fairness, was impressive. She's never given a speech longer than a minute or so out on the campaign trail, so she was a real unknown quantity before tonight. Her English is heavily accented, but she delivered her lines almost flawlessly. She knew when to pause and flash a smile, her cadence was actually pretty good (for someone not used to public speaking or TelePrompTers), and she spoke about her personal story and her husband in ways the public simply hasn't heard before. She even gave gracious nods to all the other Republican candidates, and to Bob Dole (the only living Republican presidential nominee who showed up tonight).
I didn't have any expectations for what to expect from Trump's wife, but I have to say she gave a very good impression with her speech tonight. Her job was to humanize her husband, and I don't know if she achieved that or not with the public at large, but she certainly gave it her best shot. And her best shot was better than many political speeches heard throughout the evening, so my guess is that pundits on both sides of the aisle are going to give her some deserved credit for her speech.
However, this was the point where the convention just smacked right into a brick wall. Whoever was responsible for the schedule for tonight needs to be fired, there's just no other way to put it. If that was Donald Trump himself, then obviously he won't be fired, but the rest of the evening was nothing short of political malpractice. Trump's supposed to be some sort of television genius (after starring in a reality show himself), but the rest of the evening was just as embarrassing as can be imagined.
First, we got a failed vice-presidential pick, former admiral Flynn, who tried to channel the same "shouty guy" theme as Giuliani. He did so for way, way too long. He spoke for 20-25 minutes, when his entire speech should have lasted about three or four minutes, because he mostly just repeated the same things over and over again (Obama bad! Hillary bad! Military might! U-S-A! U-S-A!). This also may sound like an exaggeration, but really isn't -- he got distracted many different times by the audience's chanting, and he essentially just rambled on forever. He almost lost his voice, at one point, from all the shouting he was doing.
He didn't end his performance until after the network's hour of coverage was over, in fact. So the only hour the networks covered tonight was: Rudy Giuliani shouting for 20 solid minutes; Melania Trump giving a very nice speech; a retired admiral few had ever heard of shouting for 20 more minutes. This is why I call it political malpractice, because they squandered their prime-time window.
But it wasn't just Flynn's speech, it was the fact that virtually all the delegates and everyone else in the hall left almost immediately after Melania's speech was over. She was billed as the keynote speaker, but they scheduled four other speakers after her. This was insane. It led to the worst convention optics I've ever seen in my life, in fact (which includes Clint Eastwood's embarrassment). When Senator Joni Ernst finally took the stage, the only people left were on the floor. All the seats above floor-level were empty. Ernst spoke to an empty hall. And there were two more speakers after her. I mean, she soldiered on and gave her speech with her trademark frozen-in-place smile, but it was just painful to watch -- especially the parts where the audience was supposed to clap (or chant), because it sounded so hollow and echoing. A few dozen people politely clapping in an arena that just held thousands sounds downright sad. I never in my life thought I'd ever feel sorry for Joni Ernst, but it was impossible not to tonight. If I were her, I would be supremely annoyed at whoever set the scheduling slots for the evening.
Following Ernst was some ex-soldier and a House member from Montana, but by that point I couldn't even watch. I had intended to watch the coverage from beginning to end, but it was just so absolutely pathetic seeing these guys up there in front of a cavernously-empty hall that I just couldn't do it. I'm not faulting the speakers, mind you, since it wasn't even close to being their fault. I do fault whatever yahoo came up with the bright idea: "We'll have the keynote speaker that everyone is waiting to hear -- introduced by the candidate himself, even -- oh, and then we're going to have four other folks speak and not put any sort of time limit on their remarks." What were they thinking? How can anyone have signed off on this as a good idea? It was downright cringe-worthy to watch.
And please remember, Donald Trump was supposed to personally be directing the convention's details, and he's also supposed to be a genius when it comes to understanding good television. But the first night in Cleveland ran over by at least 30 or 40 minutes, and the final three speakers spoke to an almost-empty hall, after Flynn's speech failed to convince anyone to stay.
I always write these snap reactions before reading what other pundits (and the late-night comedians) have to say, so I'm always left wondering: "Is it just me, or did others notice this too?" So I'll just leave it there for now, while I go find out what others are saying. To me, Day One was pretty standard stuff (if heavy on the fear-mongering, even for Republicans) for the first few hours, followed by Rudy Giuliani having an absolute meltdown to begin the single hour of broadcast coverage. A much-better-than-expected speech by Melania Trump was then followed by a scheduling train-wreck of epic proportions, and the worst optics (the empty hall) I've ever seen at a convention. We'll see if some of this is corrected on Day Two, I supposed that's the only positive thing you can say, at this point.
-- Chris Weigant
Cross-posted at The Huffington Post
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
I've heard the speech by Melania Trump before. Will check tomorrow...
apophis -
HuffPost is reporting parts of it were plagiarized from Michelle Obama's 2008 convention speech...
-CW
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cnra_saXYAAhLkZ.jpg:small
The closing prayer tonight! WOW! Didn't realize Democrats were the "enemy"!
Make of that what you will, I suppose.
And Democrats DID at the time.. God hates the GOP.. :^/
Michale
Listen,
Didn't realize Democrats were the "enemy"!
Yer kidding, right???
"The enemy I am most proud of making is the Republican Party."
-Hillary Clinton
As much as we agree on so much, I have to call hypocrisy on this one...
Michale
CW,
HuffPost is reporting parts of it were plagiarized from Michelle Obama's 2008 convention speech...
You mean like when Obama plagiarized Deval Patrick's speech??
TWICE....
Like that??
Michale
There was some shouting back and forth between the two camps. At least two states' delegations reportedly walked out in protest. These clips will undoubtedly be shown on the evening news tonight, because it was the best example of how divided the Republican Party still is over the question of supporting Donald Trump.
And when there is shouting back and forth at the Dem Convention and delegates walk out because of how Bernie was treated, I bet a thousand quatloos that none of the rank and file Weigantians will say BOO about it...
In the "shouldn't be funny, of course, but really is" category comes this photo of a sign pointing to the "White Elevators" -- whoever signed off on that piece of idiocy obviously should be fired forthwith. I believe they took the sign down, but still... talk about unintended irony.
Or, likely MORE accurately, some moron Democrat put the sign up..
This spectacle included a mother of one of the dead,
To be honest, I don't think one should use "spectacle" in the same sentence as a dead American.... But maybe that's just me...
The conversation then shifted straight into the anti-immigrant part of the show, where we had a whole bunch of family members of victims of crimes by undocumented immigrants.
You just did exactly what Listen did previously. In the SAME sentence you did a complete 180...
I hope you didn't hurt yourself.. :D
Michale
They used to regularly sneer at Democrats for this sort of thing, and now they've apparently embraced it.
To be accurate, they sneer at Democrats love of victims that aren't really victims but rather criminals and thugs..
We also had a lot of pro-cops speakers, an obvious choice with what's been happening over the last two weeks. Trump is reportedly reading over Richard Nixon's "law and order" convention speech himself, but so far it's been pretty perfunctory ("Blue lives matter!").
Apparently Blue Lives matter a HELLUVA lot more than black lives..
You don't see cops murdering other cops by the tens of thousands, do you??
He went through his stock anti-immigrant comments, complete with a call to "Build the wall!"
You mean anti-ILLEGAL-immigrant comments.. Try as ya'all might, I will not let you create a straw man argument.. Let's argue the FACTS and not the argument ya'all WANT to have...
I'm just sayin'....
Gwen Ifill of PBS had the best comment, at the end of Rudy's anger-fest: "Giuliani's had his Wheaties tonight!"
Which means, Rudy was awesome! :D
I am glad we can agree on that.. :D
so my guess is that pundits on both sides of the aisle are going to give her some deserved credit for her speech.
I'll believe THAT when I see it.. Already the Left Wingery is attacking her for making comments similar to Mrs Obama's speech... Funny how that didn't seem to bother the Left Wingery when Obama did it...
Michale
(if heavy on the fear-mongering, even for Republicans)
Yea, Democrats would NEVER use fear-mongering.. :^/
Remember... AT night... Not LAST night...
Michale
but so far it's been pretty perfunctory ("Blue lives matter!").
Apparently, not to the White House..
Police Departments have requested that the White House be lit in blue to pay tribute to the over 20 cops that were ambushed and brutally shot these past 2 weeks..
Hussein Odumbo, after siding with the racist hate group and throwing the entirety of the US police under the bus, gave a big and might FRAK YOU to the cops by refusing to light the White House blue..
Even though Odumbo fell all over himself to light the White House rainbow to celebrate the gay marriage ruling...
"Same sex marriage?? Oh we HAVE to celebrate that!!! Dead cops?? Frak them!!!"
-President Hussein Odumbo
Hussein Odumbo is scum... I am completely embarrassed to have him as my President...
I am BEYOND embarrassed to say that I actually voted for the guy...
Michale
Why Donald Trump will win
NO POLITICAL LEADER since Ronald Reagan has created the excitement and buzz that Donald Trump has. He is the first politician since that late, great president to go over the heads of the media and elite ruling class and speak directly to the American people.
He is concerned that our country is no longer a country, and that America has sold out its sovereignty to a nondemocratic internationalist order, at the expense of the American worker and of American jobs. He has been criticized by opponents for not having elaborate position papers down to the last detail. Trump, unlike the robotic and dull Mitt Romney, gives no slick PowerPoint presentations. Trump merely says, “We are getting killed.” And the people know exactly what he is talking about.
It must be reiterated that Trump is not against immigration. He advocates legal immigration. His mother was an immigrant, a Gaelic speaker from the isle of Lewis, off Scotland. Trump believes the process must be legal, as it was for the millions of those who came to America’s shores over the past two centuries seeking the American dream of economic betterment, peace, and prosperity. Trump’s popularity is perplexing to the establishment. But it is readily understood by the majority of Americans.
I believe Trump has been under political assault by the media and establishment because he is beholden to no one. Trump runs his own operation from the fifth floor of Trump Tower, in a kind of unfinished storage area. It is not from the plush surroundings of marble and gold featured in “The Apprentice.” Yet from here, with his small group of campaign staff, he has let forth a cry to Washington insiders and the corrupt political establishment: “You’re fired!” It is a cry like a voice from Mount Olympus that echoes in the hearts of the American people and will put him in the White House by a landslide.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/07/17/why-trump-will-win/qQSwYvfpN5mWFaslAS3LwI/story.html
Yep....
That's what ya'all don't get
Trump is the CHANGE candidate... Crooked Hillary is the ESTABLISHMENT candidate..
"New hotness.... Old and busted..."
Will Smith, MEN IN BLACK II
Trump is going to be in the White House come January 2017...
Ya'all better get used to the idea...
Michale
You mean anti-ILLEGAL-immigrant comments.. Try as ya'all might, I will not let you create a straw man argument.. Let's argue the FACTS and not the argument ya'all WANT to have...
I'm just sayin'....
Here's what doesn't add up about your strawman arguments..
You claim that Trump hates immigrants but don't have one SCINTILLA of an iota of a fact that supports that claim..
Trump is MARRIED to an immigrant, fer christ's sake!
If ya'all want to have a debate on ILLEGAL immigrants, then we can have that debate.. But we have had it in the past and ya'all have lost EACH and EVERY time...
Which explains why ya'all have to change the argument and try and replacement it with your straw man..
But I ain't gonna let ya do that.. :D
Michale
he lost me at ronald reagan.
he lost me at ronald reagan.
Do you deny the fact?? :D
That's the point I am trying to make.
Michale
"...gracious nods to all the other Republican candidates, and to Bob Dole (the only living Republican presidential nominee who showed up tonight)."
I checked the live feeds now and again, but I think I missed something important. Is this a haunted convention? Beetlejuice comes to Cleveland? Or were they actually wheeling in corpses? The dead have known to vote, so maybe it's not surprising they show up at a convention. :)
I checked the live feeds now and again, but I think I missed something important. Is this a haunted convention? Beetlejuice comes to Cleveland? Or were they actually wheeling in corpses?
Yep.. You have DEFINITELY been hanging out with JFC way too long.. :D
The dead have known to vote, so maybe it's not surprising they show up at a convention. :)
The dead only vote Democrat...
Silly boy...
Michale
For Paula: more from Wonderland. *ahem*
Uncle Donald
"You are rich, Uncle Donald,"
The young man said,
"And are said to be swimming in cash,
Yet you bankrupted casinos at least four times -
For a wealthy man, isn't that rash?"
"In my youth," said the magnate,
"I inherited wealth,
And the privilege it brings in a Court.
And a Win feels so good for a guy like myself,
That now I just sue folks for sport."
"You are wise, Uncle Donald,"
The young man said,
"And built structures, from hotels to malls.
So what makes you think the US could afford
a fifteen-hundred-mile long wall?"
"In my youth," said the Donald,
"I learned 'The Art of the Deal',
And bought concrete for pounds on the penny,
But if you are asking, 'Is this guy for real?'
Your guess is as valid as any!"
"You are old, Uncle Donald,"
The young man said,
"And your skin is as orange as a cat,
And your hair is as yellow as piss in the snow,
Is this something that I might contract?"
"Since my youth," answered Donald,
"I've been surrounded by gold,
more garish than Elvis's tights.
And I might end up plated like the Goldfinger girl,
but at least I look good in the lights!"
"You are kind, Uncle Donald,"
The young man said,
"And must know how to make lots of friends -
But how does insulting Latinos and blacks
accomplish political ends?"
"You have asked me four questions, and that is enough!
Said the Don, "You're more boring than Pence!"
"Go ask Hillary what she thinks about stuff -
At least what she says will make sense!"
For Paula: more nonsense.
Uncle Donald
"You are rich, Uncle Donald,"
The young man said,
"And are said to be swimming in cash,
Yet you bankrupted casinos at least four times -
For a wealthy man, isn't that rash?"
"In my youth," said the magnate,
"I inherited wealth,
And the privilege it brings in a Court.
And a Win feels so good for a guy like myself,
That now I just sue folks for sport."
"You are wise, Uncle Donald,"
The young man said,
"And built structures, from hotels to malls.
So what makes you think the US could afford
a fifteen-hundred-mile long wall?"
"In my youth," said the Donald,
"I learned 'The Art of the Deal',
And bought concrete for pounds on the penny,
But if you are asking, 'Is this guy for real?'
Your guess is as valid as any!"
"You are old, Uncle Donald,"
The young man said,
"And your skin is as orange as a cat,
And your hair is as yellow as late-July straw,
Is this something that I might contract?"
"Since my youth," answered Donald,
"I've been surrounded by gold
more garish than Elvis's tights.
I might end up plated like the Goldfinger girl,
but at least I'll look good in the lights!"
"You are kind, Uncle Donald,"
The young man said,
"And must know how to make lots of friends,
But how does insulting Latinos and blacks
accomplish political ends?"
"You have asked me four questions, and that is enough!"
Said the Don, "You're more boring than Pence!"
"Go ask Hillary what she thinks about stuff -
At least what she says will make sense!"
-Balthasar
Last night, Guliani screamed:
"Donald Trump will leave America in the same shape I left New York!"
Not blaming you, Rudy, but wasn't a large portion of Manhattan literally a smoking ruin when you left office? Just sayin'...
Not blaming you, Rudy, but wasn't a large portion of Manhattan literally a smoking ruin when you left office? Just sayin'...
Ahhhh So now Rudy is responsible for 9/11???
Jeezus, you can't see how utterly off the rails you have gone...
What's the crime rate in NYC today???
What was the crime rate when Rudy took office??
What was it when he left???
THAT's the point..
But I understand how ya'all can't see past your ideology to acknowledge the facts and reality...
Which is why I am ecstatic I am not enslaved by partisan ideology...
Michale
It's funny...
Right now, ya'all in the Left Wingery are all ridicule and scorn and the Right is all jubilant and swooning..
During the Demcorat Convention, ya'all in the Left Wingery will be all jubilant and swooning and the Right will be all ridicule and scorn....
And ya'all actually BELIEVE that there is any difference between ya'all and the Right Wingery...
That's so cute... :D
Michale....
Michale [18] -
I said "Not blaming you, Rudy". read.
So look at this graph. Look! the crime rate is already falling when Giuliani (1994-2001) takes office, due to the policies of Mayor Dinkins (1990-1994). Dinkins cleaned up Times Square (bringing in Disney) and rebuilt lower Harlem, and rehabilitated more housing in one term than Guiliani did in two.
If you don't want to take my word, read what the hometown paper has to say:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/26/nyregion/26dinkins.html?_r=0
i watched the rules floor-fight live. that really was interesting television. i even tuned to fox for awhile to see how they would spin it.
Do you deny the fact?? :D
not sure what "fact" we're talking about here. the _opinion_ that trump is like reagan is valid in some ways both positive and negative, and invalid in others, also both positive and negative.
the prediction that trump will win is certainly possible, but hardly factual. anyone who calls a presidential election a sure thing in july is blowing smoke out his rectum, no matter which side he thinks will win.
JL
@balthasar,
i'll look for the factor analysis if i can find it, but the biggest reason for the drop in crime in the late 80's and early 90's was not anybody's policing policy, it was social forces.
So look at this graph. Look! the crime rate is already falling when Giuliani (1994-2001) takes office, due to the policies of Mayor Dinkins (1990-1994). Dinkins cleaned up Times Square (bringing in Disney) and rebuilt lower Harlem, and rehabilitated more housing in one term than Guiliani did in two.
That's spin.. Not reality...
not sure what "fact" we're talking about here. the _opinion_ that trump is like reagan
OK... OK....
So, if I said that Obama was a candidate that created excitement and buzz....
That wouldn't be a fact???
"Welllll..... That's different.."
Of course it is.. :D
the prediction that trump will win is certainly possible, but hardly factual. anyone who calls a presidential election a sure thing in july is blowing smoke out his rectum, no matter which side he thinks will win.
Funny how you only seem to point that out when Trump is the predicted winner.. Not when he is the predicted loser or Crooked Hillary is the predicted winner.. :D
Oh, don't get me wrong. I KNOW you believe what you are saying vis a vis predictions this far out..
But you only seem to articulate this belief under the afore conditions...
In other words, the next time Neil or Paula predict that Trump is surely going to lose, maybe you can point out what you just pointed out above... :D
Would warm the cockles of m' heart and restore my faith in humanity to see you do that. :D
Michale
If you don't want to take my word, read what the hometown paper has to say:
You mean the home town Left Wingery rag.....
You might as well refer me to HuffPoop....
Jeezus..
Remember... AT night... not LAST night.... :^/
Michale
i'll look for the factor analysis if i can find it, but the biggest reason for the drop in crime in the late 80's and early 90's was not anybody's policing policy, it was social forces.
Of course it was....
Can't give the cops credit for anything, eh?? :^/
All the glory goes to the community organizers... :^/
Shocking... Positively shocking...
Michale
nypoet[22] Oh, I agree completely. There's another graph that shows that New York's crime rate came down at the same rate as LA's (and not as dramatically as Newark's) during the same period of time.
New York’s drop in crime during the 1990s was correspondingly astonishing—indeed, “one of the most remarkable stories in the history of urban crime,” according to University of California law professor Franklin Zimring. While other cities experienced major declines, none was as steep as New York’s. Most of the criminologists’ explanations for it—the economy, changing drug-use patterns, demographic changes—have not withstood scrutiny. Readers of City Journal will be familiar with the stronger argument that the New York Police Department’s adoption of quality-of-life policing and of such accountability measures as Compstat was behind the city’s crime drop.
http://www.city-journal.org/html/how-new-york-became-safe-full-story-13197.html
I know, I know.. Ya'all don't like FACTS when they interfere with ya'all's ideology...
Tough tonka trucks...... :D
Michale
Can't give the cops credit for anything, eh?? :^/
incorrect. better policing policies absolutely made the change more pronounced in some places than others, and the police get a good portion of the credit. just because they weren't the biggest factor doesn't mean their contribution was in any way insignificant.
JL
So, if I said that Obama was a candidate that created excitement and buzz....
That wouldn't be a fact???
no.
but it is a different kind of opinion. counter-arguments, such as alternate theories to explain people's excitement on behalf of obama, first need to be generated in order to be tested empirically.
"Trumplethinskin" was a new one I saw in the comments yesterday.
but it is a different kind of opinion.
Of course it is.. :D
Because it's an opinion about a Democrat which, as everyone knows, is different than an opinion about a Republican.. :D
Michale
Michale [27] - Says the creator of the program, who might have some bias regarding the impact of that program on the City's crime rate.
It's never a good thing when you have to include a statement like: "Most of the criminologists’ explanations for [the reduction in crime seen in New York]—the economy, changing drug-use patterns, demographic changes—have not withstood scrutiny."
I'm just pointing this out - Kelling wants us to believe that most of the members of a profession dedicated to the study of the causes of crime are wrong about the causes of crime.
"Trumplethinskin" was a new one I saw in the comments yesterday.
I still like Hussein 0dumbo.... :D
Michale
I'm just pointing this out - Kelling wants us to believe that most of the members of a profession dedicated to the study of the causes of crime are wrong about the causes of crime.
You mean most of the members of a profession dedicated to the Demcorat Party agenda...
Michale
Because it's an opinion about a Democrat which, as everyone knows, is different than an opinion about a Republican.. :D
no, because it's an opinion about one person instead of two.
no, because it's an opinion about one person instead of two.
A difference which makes no difference IS no difference."
-Spock
Michale
Michale [16]
The dead don't vote Democrat in Springfield!
"Oh my God! The dead have risen, and are voting Republican."
-Bart Simpson (Episode 108, Sideshow Bob Roberts)
@37,
an opinion comparing two people is very different from an opinion about a single person, and makes a BIG difference in how the opinion can be judged. removing ourselves for a moment from the red herring of partisanship, saying barack obama is inspirational is a MUCH easier opinion to validate factually than saying barack obama is like jack kennedy. the reason why it is more difficult to validate such a comparative opinion is because there are twice as many variables.
JL
But they are BOTH opinions and not facts, right???
Michale
Bleyd,
I am so happy to see such an apropos movie quote, I am going to ignore any other aspect!! :D
You've made my day.. I am impressed And I don't impress easily..
"WOW!!!! A BLUE CAR!!!!!"
:D
Michale
saying barack obama is inspirational is a MUCH easier opinion to validate factually
OK.... Fair enough..
Donald Trump is inspirational...
Is that a "MUCH easier opinion to validate factually"??? :D
Remind me again of the "red herring of partisanship" before you answer... :D
Michale
You have one logical "out" here.. I hope you take it.. :D
Michale
yes, the opinion that trump is inspirational is much easier to validate factually. i would go so far as to agree that he is inspirational - right or wrong, many people have been inspired by trump's rhetoric.
as to comparisons with reagan, i think reagan was awful so don't take it from me:
We find no similarities other than both Reagan and Trump came out of the entertainment industry. We knew Ronald Reagan. We served alongside President Reagan. Ronald Reagan was our friend. And, Mr. Trump, you’re no Ronald Reagan.
Stu Spencer & Ken Khachigian (Ronald Reagan’s campaign manager and chief speechwriter).
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/08/23/trump_is_no_reagan_127851.html
I just want to know when someone at the RNC is going to talk about what the Republicans are actually going to do for Americans. We've heard how horrible Hillary is, how dishonest she is (by people telling lies to make their point, no less), and that Donald will make things great in America...but not a single word on how he plans to actually make that happen. You'd think that the Republican voters would have figured out by now that the GOP has no intention of doing anything that helps anyone not in the top 1% of wealthiest Americans. Remember Romney and Ryan's "We have great plans to fix the economy, but you have to elect us before we will tell you what those plans are!"?
yes, the opinion that trump is inspirational is much easier to validate factually. i would go so far as to agree that he is inspirational - right or wrong, many people have been inspired by trump's rhetoric.
Well done, grasshopper.... :D
Michale
If you think the police are the solely responsible for the drop in crime, then are they also responsible for it when crime rates rise?
Remember Romney and Ryan's "We have great plans to fix the economy, but you have to elect us before we will tell you what those plans are!"?
How is that any different than Pelosi's "We have to pass the bill to find out what's in it!!"
You see my point??
You slam the GOP for this, that and the other thing and give the DEMs a pass for the exact same thing...
How is that not hypocritical???
But in answer to your question...
Trump makes people feel good about America and good about themselves..
Crooked Hillary just makes people feel slimey and dirty...
Michale
If you think the police are the solely responsible for the drop in crime, then are they also responsible for it when crime rates rise?
Yes..... By george, I think you've got it!!! :D
But there IS a difference, as I am sure you would agree...
In the Community policing, while the directives come from on high, it's the cop on the beat who makes or breaks community policing... So far???
But when the crime rate goes up, it's the political correct orders from on high that are the problem, not the beat cop on the street... IE The Ferguson Effect...
So, yes.. In BOTH cases, police deserve the credit and the blame.. But WITHIN the police, it's the beat cop that deserves the credit for the good things, but it's the brass that deserves the blame for the bad things...
I am sure you would agree with that...
Michale
I doubt very much Melania deliberately plagierized Michelle Obama's speech -- since I doubt Melania was more than peripherally involved in the writing of the speech.
My bet is the speechwriters, tasked with coming up with something that would sound like what a potential First Lady would say, got copies of all the recent would-be First Lady Convention speeches and cribbed together the final product. They got careless and didn't cover their tracks on the "lifted from Michelle's speech" part. The speech was a nice-sounding pastiche of nice-sounding ideas, virtually none of which were personal or revealing either about Melenia or her husband.
But then I doubt "the best" speechwriters are working for Trump.
one thing i respect about the obamas is they mostly write their own rhetoric. donald does too, although he probably shouldn't. especially those parts about saddam hussein killing terrorists. saddam was one of the biggest sponsors of terrorists - he didn't kill them, he funded them.
nypoet22
Donald doesn't write, he just speaks.
Paula,
I doubt very much Melania deliberately plagierized Michelle Obama's speech -- since I doubt Melania was more than peripherally involved in the writing of the speech.
That's very rational of you... Kudos..
They got careless and didn't cover their tracks on the "lifted from Michelle's speech" part.
Just like Odumbo got "careless"???
Just like Joe Biden got "careless"???
I'm just sayin'....
Michale
Michale,
[49] No, I don't agree, simply because it is absurd to think that such complex issues could possibly have a single, lone solution!
[48] As for Romney and Ryan's economic plan being just like Pelosi's blind push for the ACA, "We, the People" weren't voting for/against the ACA, but we were electing a President. The ACA was available to read prior to the vote, the Dems just pushed the vote before most people got around to reading it. Romney & Ryan never had anything that they could show that wouldn't make it obvious how badly the Republicans screw over most Americans!
Trump makes people feel good about America and good about themselves.
So Trump is Ecstasy? Well, you should know that coming down off of ecstasy is not pleasant! But I agree that Trump does make people feel good about themselves, because one can always be made to feel superior by bashing others.
Listen,
[49] No, I don't agree, simply because it is absurd to think that such complex issues could possibly have a single, lone solution!
It's not as complex as you want to make it..
And while I agree that there is not a SINGLE LONE solution, there IS a solution that has proven to work very VERY well...
Community policing... Broken Windows policing... Is one of those things...
It's funny.. When those things were abandoned, it was the BLACK community who was demanding that those programs be reinstated.. Like Stop & Frisk...
[48] As for Romney and Ryan's economic plan being just like Pelosi's blind push for the ACA, "We, the People" weren't voting for/against the ACA, but we were electing a President.
"A difference which makes no difference IS no difference."
You have to elect me to find out what I am going to do..
We have to pass the legislation to know what it is going to do...
Same thing...
But I agree that Trump does make people feel good about themselves, because one can always be made to feel superior by bashing others.
Yes, Democrats have proved that beyond a doubt... That's what they do..
The difference between Democrats and Trump is that Trump bashes criminals and terrorists...
Democrats bash Americans whose only crime is being successful....
That's the difference that makes ALL the difference..
Michale
Ya'all got to ask yerselves...
If Trump is so bad, why are the polls so close???
Only one of two possibilities...
Either Trump is not as bad as ya'all think...
Or Crooked Hillary is a lot worse than ya'all claim...
:D
Michale
Melania said, last night, I read it once over, and that's all because I wrote it with as little help as possible.
Today Trump's team says In writing her beautiful speech, Melania's team of writers took notes on her life’s inspirations, and in some instances included fragments that reflected her own thinking.
So, just to be clear Michale, I think the plagiarism was done by the speechwriters; but Melania lied about her writing of the speech. Not a surprise -- at all -- just more Trump-related dishonesty.
Today they are also trying to blame Hillary for their plagiarism and lying-about-it. What a bunch of crybabies. They operate like 4-year-olds.
Today they are also trying to blame Hillary for their plagiarism and lying-about-it. What a bunch of crybabies. They operate like 4-year-olds.
No one's blaming Hillary...
But people are CORRECTLY pointing out that both Odumbo and Biden also plagairized their speeches...
ANd no one on the Left said BOO...
Michale
No one's blaming Hillary?
Here's just one of the many reports about this today: http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/07/19/paul-manafort-blames-hillary-clinton-for-melania-trump-speech-plagiarism-allegation/
And Blah, blah, blah -- Michale will spin it. Doesn't matter. The RNC convention opening was a celebration of dishonesty, hate and fear-mongering. It was a disgrace. It is horrifying. Ugly-Americanism run rampant. Hideous people.
The only positive note: so far the counter-protesters have been completely peaceful, offering Trump no opportunities to exploit. He'll probably pay some people to go out and start a rumble. There's always people who will take money to do anything, no matter how contemptible.
So, just to be clear Michale, I think the plagiarism was done by the speechwriters; but Melania lied about her writing of the speech. Not a surprise -- at all -- just more Trump-related dishonesty.
"When we landed in Bosnia, we had to dodge sniper fire..."
-Hillary Clinton
Are you SURE you want to talk about TRUMP dishonesty???
Michale
And Blah, blah, blah -- Michale will spin it. Doesn't matter. The RNC convention opening was a celebration of dishonesty, hate and fear-mongering. It was a disgrace. It is horrifying. Ugly-Americanism run rampant. Hideous people.
And the Right Wingery will say the exact same things about the opening of the Demcorat Convention and be just as accurate....
What makes them wrong and you right???
Michale
No one's blaming Hillary?
No one of any importance is blaming Crooked Hillary...
Better??
Michale
Michale wrote:
"And when there is shouting back and forth at the Dem Convention and delegates walk out because of how Bernie was treated, I bet a thousand quatloos that none of the rank and file Weigantians will say BOO about it..."
You won't have to bet, because it isn't going to happen, AT ALL. Why would it, when Bernie has endorsed Hillary, and has gotten most of what he wanted inserted into the official Democratic Party Platform? And if Hillary were to pick Warren, say, as her VP, it will be a love fest, and any slights to Bernie will be all but forgotten.
You won't have to bet, because it isn't going to happen, AT ALL.
So, yer safe in making the bet, right?? :D
Michale
And if Hillary were to pick Warren, say, as her VP,
Crooked Hillary won't pick Faux-chohantas...
It's that simple....
Michale
Poll: Clinton and Trump Now Tied as GOP Convention Kicks Off
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/poll-clinton-trump-now-tied-gop-convention-kicks-n611936
I'll ask again...
If Trump is so bad and Crooked Hillary is so good, why are the polls so close???
Michale
If Trump is so bad, why are the polls so close???
that fallacy is called argumentum ad populum, i.e. concluding that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it.
the normal curve being what it is, 83.3% of the human population are just not all that bright. that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with most people, nor that being a mensa member necessarily makes one right. however, donald's rhetoric has been pretty horrific both in its gross factual inaccuracy and in its disregard for human decency - issues which (based on the demographics of donald's supporters) educated people tend to notice and uneducated people tend not to.
JL
Now I understand everyone's shit's emotional right now. But I've got a 3 point plan that's going to fix EVERYTHING. Number 1: We've got this guy Not Sure. Number 2: He's got a higher IQ than ANY MAN ALIVE. and Number 3: He's going to fix EVERYTHING.
~president camacho, idiocracy
but worry not, mitt romney will save america!
http://wonkette.com/604267/republican-platform-knows-mitt-romney-and-paul-ryan-will-save-america-yes-in-2016
now president camacho, THERE is an inspirational leader!
So....
Why are the polls so close if Trump is so bad and Hillary is so good???
Michale
Paula,
Considering that over 70% of Americans think that the BEST word to describe Hillary Clinton is "LIAR".....
Do you REALLY want to have a debate about the alleged dishonesty of Trump???
Michale
And already, we are seeing Democrats who are distancing themselves from the Demcorat Conventions...
Top Dem Senate hopefuls to skip convention
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/senate-races/288365-senate-challengers-to-skip-dem-convention
You were saying, JM?? :D
Wanna make that bet??? :D
Michale
No Demcorat who actually wants to WIN their election wants to be seen with Crooked Hillary.. :D
Michale
Do not underestimate the volatility of Barack Obama’s popularity. As long as Obama keeps silent and out of the limelight, he nears 50 percent in approval ratings. The moment he returns to the fray (and he always does, as a June bug to a patio light), he instinctively reverts to his natural divisive and polarizing self, as evidenced in his disastrous reactions to the Dallas police shootings, and his politically suicidal post-Dallas courting of Al Sharpton (who used to call on supporters to “off” police) and of the architects of Black Lives Matter. It is likely that Obama, to cement a hard progressive legacy in the next four months, will only double down on his gratuitous pandering, and therefore will see his poll numbers return to the low or mid-40s. That may help Trump seem an antidote rather than an obsequious continuance.
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/438011/trump-clinton-endgame
Yep...
Already, Odumbo has seen his poll numbers drop like a stone.....
Michale
Do not underestimate the volatility of Barack Obama’s popularity. As long as Obama keeps silent and out of the limelight, he nears 50 percent in approval ratings. The moment he returns to the fray (and he always does, as a June bug to a patio light), he instinctively reverts to his natural divisive and polarizing self, as evidenced in his disastrous reactions to the Dallas police shootings, and his politically suicidal post-Dallas courting of Al Sharpton (who used to call on supporters to “off” police) and of the architects of Black Lives Matter. It is likely that Obama, to cement a hard progressive legacy in the next four months, will only double down on his gratuitous pandering, and therefore will see his poll numbers return to the low or mid-40s. That may help Trump seem an antidote rather than an obsequious continuance.
Read more at: http://tinyurl.com/hq74v8m
Yep...
Already, Odumbo has seen his poll numbers drop like a stone.....
Michale
"Alleged dishonesty of Trump"? HA! That's a good one. The man admits that he changes his position on topics in speeches he gives based on the crowd's reactions....that pretty much takes "alleged" out of the equation!
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/07/18/sheriff_david_clarke_blue_lives_matter_in_america.html
Yep... Yep.... Yep.....
(O)BLM is nothing but a racist hate group... No different than the KKK...
Michale
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/07/18/ken_cuccinelli_throws_away_his_credentials_storms_out_of_republican_convention.html
Waaaaa waaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaa
Somebody call the WAAAAAAAAA-mbulance.... :^D
Michale
"Alleged dishonesty of Trump"? HA! That's a good one. The man admits that he changes his position on topics in speeches he gives based on the crowd's reactions....
And Hillary IF THIS IS ARKANSAS THEN IT MUST BE HICK ACCENT Clinton does not??
that pretty much takes "alleged" out of the equation!
Fine.. Ya'all admit that Crooked Hillary is dishonest and I'll be happy to concede the same for Trump...
See how easy that is???
1000 Quatloos says ya'all won't... :D
Michale
That's what's so hilarious about this..
Ya'all can't say DICK about Trump because ya'all refuse to concede that Hillary is, in most cases, worse... :D
Michale
And it's ALL because ya'all chose a rat lying bitch like Hillary Clinton instead of an honorable man like Bernie Sanders...
Ya'all made the bed.. Don't be pissed at me because I am going to make sure ya'all lie in it...
LIE being the operative word there.. :D
Michale
[81] Michale: rat lying bitch like Hillary Clinton
You had better apologize immediately for that language. There's a lot I'll tolerate from you but I will not tolerate that level of abusive language about any woman.
Ooooo Now ya'all have a shiney new Fox News drama to grab your attention and distract ya'all from what a luser candidate Crooked Hillary is...
Have a ball people.. I'll be laughing my ass off.. :D
Michale
You had better apologize immediately for that language. There's a lot I'll tolerate from you but I will not tolerate that level of abusive language about any woman.
Fine..
As soon as everyone apologizes for the names that they have called Trump, I will be HAPPY to reciprocate..
But not a nano-second before...
Michale
Remember... I am playing by YOUR 3rd grade playground rules here...
Michale....
[81] Michale: rat lying bitch like Hillary Clinton
You had better apologize immediately for that language. There's a lot I'll tolerate from you but I will not tolerate that level of abusive language about any woman.
Just ignore every post. Trust me, it makes this community far better. It isn't like you will be missing any insights or valid viewpoints.
Just ignore every post. Trust me, it makes this community far better. It isn't like you will be missing any insights or valid viewpoints.
Neil, you really need to work on IGNORING me..
To paraphrase Morpheus...
"Quit trying to ignore me and ignore me!!"
Talking ABOUT me is not ignoring me..
Like everyone who tried before you, you simply can't do it...
I am under your skin... :D
Michale
It isn't like you will be missing any insights or valid viewpoints.
TRANSLATION: Don't listen to ANY opposing opinions.. Just listen to the echo chamber.. You'll be fine... We are at war with East Asia.. We have always been at war with East Asia...
Yer so pathetically enslaved by ideology... :D
Michale
As per the norm..
Ya'all want to call people names...
But ya'all don't like it when yer people are called names..
Hypocrisy much??
Michale
The Stand Together Against Trump group was expected to parade Tuesday afternoon at 1:30 p.m. A total of 0 protesters showed up.
http://www.kplctv.com/story/32479326/watch-live-black-lives-matter-protest-near-east-4th-st
hehehehehehehehe That about sums it up...
The majority of Americans are with Trump....
Michale....
REPUBLICAN PARTY FORMALLY NOMINATES TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_GOP_2016_CONVENTION_TRUMP_NOMINATED?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-07-19-19-14-52
That's it, people..
Ya'all lost... get over it... :D
Michale
OK, just rescued a bunch of comments from the spam filter... sorry for the delay, it's been a busy week so far!
Oh, and new column is now up for Day Two, check it out...
-CW
Michale -
I actually agree with Paula. That comment was a bit over the top, dude. Let's keep things a little more polite. Fair warning.
-CW
As for [77], Michale -
Obama's numbers haven't "dropped like a stone" they went down like a point or less, and have since started recovering.
Presidential job approval in an election year is one of the best predictors for the outcome of the election, I should add. That article you cite is mostly wishful thinking by a righty.
-CW
Don,
Michale (81)-
Please apologize to rats.
You are right.. That was unnecessarily offensive to rats...
My apologies (BLUE MOON!!) to the rat population..
Michale
I actually agree with Paula. That comment was a bit over the top, dude. Let's keep things a little more polite. Fair warning.
Hay, you know me. I call 'em as I see 'em...
And since playground name-calling is the rule around here I am just playing by the rules..
Calling Hillary a bitch is no more offensive than calling Trump Hitler...
But, yer da boss.. :D I'll bow to your wishes.. :D
Obama's numbers haven't "dropped like a stone" they went down like a point or less, and have since started recovering.
I disagree... As I mentioned before when Obama is in positive territory, I look at the spread... Obama started the month (more or less) with a +6.1 spread... He is not at a +2.6 and it's still going down..
That's a huge drop and the 'dropping like a stone' metaphor is wholly accurate...
Michale
Hay, you know me. I call 'em as I see 'em...
And since playground name-calling is the rule around here I am just playing by the rules..
Calling Hillary a bitch is no more offensive than calling Trump Hitler...
But, yer da boss.. :D I'll bow to your wishes.. :D
Can I assume that Rhymes-With-Witch is acceptable?? :D Or maybe b*tch?? :D
Michale
I disagree... As I mentioned before when Obama is in positive territory, I look at the spread... Obama started the month (more or less) with a +6.1 spread... He is not at a +2.6 and it's still going down..
Hay!! Who put my 'T' key where the 'W' goes!!!
"HAY!!!! YOU MOVED MY STUMP!!!"
-Wreck It Ralph
:D
He is noW at a +2.6 and it's still going down..
My bust...
Michale
JM,
Two names emerge from Clinton’s VP deliberations: Kaine and Vilsack
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/two-names-emerge-from-clintons-vp-deliberations-kaine-and-vilsack/2016/07/19/62189146-4d2d-11e6-aa14-e0c1087f7583_story.html
What I tell ya???
Faux-chohantas will not be considered for VP... For very good reasons...
So much for the hope that egos will heal at the Demcorat Convention, eh?? :D
Michale
I actually agree with Paula. That comment was a bit over the top, dude. Let's keep things a little more polite. Fair warning.
Seriously?
I mean, is THAT what it takes!?
Apparently...
's OK.. Ya'all are free to call Republicans every vile, disgusting and perverse name ya'all can think of...
At least this way, I will always have the moral, ethical and mature high ground... :D
No harm, no foul... :D
Michale
I'm serious, Michale. I'm very sorry to say that http://www.chrisweigant.com has become a complete frustration and waste of my time.
I just don't need that ... especially not now, but, really, not ever.
This place isn't even a much needed distraction, anymore. :(
I'm serious, Michale. I'm very sorry to say that http://www.chrisweigant.com has become a complete frustration and waste of my time.
Sorry you feel that way... I certainly don't..
But I am constrained to point out that it's ya'all who have set the tone around here, not I... If people go around calling people they don't agree with every vile name in the book, is it so shocking that I would respond in kind??
If you want tolerance, then it behooves ya'all to BE tolerant???
Everyone here either calls people they don't agree with vile and disgusting names or they give assent to those vile and disgusting names...
But let someone follow the same rules on people that the rank and file LIKE and AGREE WITH??
Oh, well.. THAT's different... We can't have THAT happening, now can we???
Like I said, 's OK... I understand why that rule has to be in place... It doesn't bother me much whatsoever.. Standards must be maintained, even if they are double standards.. :D
But don't try to pin this on me when it's clear to anyone with more than 2 brain cells to rub together that I was simply following ya'all's (no exceptions to note) example...
:D
Michale
the name-calling contest ended two weeks ago. that was an interlude, not carte blanche. i did not respond to the ronald reagan comparison with an adolf hitler comparison, even though my honest opinion is that the latter has more in common with donald than the former. we did the name-calling thing, so now let's end it - JFC's incoherent rants notwithstanding.
JL
@102,
yeah that was a funny gaffe with the bold capital W. i read "He is noW at a +2.6" as "He is no dubya at a +2.6%," which i didn't quite get, since dubya was at a -30% in july of his final year in office.
JL
The name-calling is the very least of what is wrong with this site, just to be clear.
the name-calling contest ended two weeks ago. that was an interlude, not carte blanche.
The name-calling continues to this day...
we did the name-calling thing, so now let's end it - JFC's incoherent rants notwithstanding.
Well, at least we agree that JFCs rants ARE incoherent.. :D
If it was JUST JFC, you might have a point.. But I would too...
But it's not...
Paula, Listen, TS, GT, Bashi, Neal, Balthasar..
And THAT is just within the PENCE, KAINE, REALLY commentary....
Please, don't bother with the Sir Robin-esque "I NEVER DID!!!" denials...
Even if it were JUST JFC, it would be sufficient to make my point...
Ya'all want me to respect Democrat leadership, then ya'all need to respect GOP leadership...
If ya'all want to just laugh and ridicule and denigrate and attack GOP leadership???
Well, I wanna play that game too....
Michale
yeah that was a funny gaffe with the bold capital W. i read "He is noW at a +2.6" as "He is no dubya at a +2.6%," which i didn't quite get, since dubya was at a -30% in july of his final year in office.
hehehehehehe
Yea, after I saw that I realized I should have put the whole word 'now' in bold. hehehehe
Michale
And THAT is just within the PENCE, KAINE, REALLY commentary....
That should read: And THAT is just SINCE the PENCE, KAINE, REALLY commentary....
My bust...
we did the name-calling thing, so now let's end it - JFC's incoherent rants notwithstanding.
Maybe if JFC was admonished as much as I have been, he would stop it as well.
Hmmmmmmmm???
Michale
But, as I said, it's a moot point...
Even though it's as appropriate as calling Trump 'Hitler', the rules have been laid down and I will abide by the rules...
No more calling Crooked Hillary the B-word..
"Ah Ah Ah Ahhhhh No one says the B-word.."
-Michael Keaton, BEETLEJUICE
:D
Michale
@liz,
what do you see as the biggest problem? and what steps might fix it?
JL
Joshua,
In a nutshell ... 90% nonsense, 10% common sense ... how's that generous assessment, for starters?
Of course, I am talking only about the comments section, it should go without saying but, there you go.
In a nutshell ... 90% nonsense, 10% common sense ... how's that generous assessment, for starters?
The problem is your assessment is run thru an ideological filter and what you term "nonsense" really isn't..
Not to pick just on you in that regard.. Everyone here (sans yours truly) has a partisan ideological filter that colors everything.......
Like when Listen pointed out how ridiculous it was for Trump to say "You have to elect me to find out what I am going to do.." But Listen said it was COMPLETELY different when Pelosi said basically the exact same thing..
That's what I mean by ya'all's ideological filter and me not having any..
I see BOTH statements as ridiculous..
Ya'all only see TRUMP's statement as ridiculous and Pelosi's statement, which is virtually identical, is perfectly acceptable...
Michale
@liz,
i would love it if we ALL could cut down on the nonsense. agree completely.
@michale,
like a hammer that sees everything as a nail, you're looking for partisan ideology everywhere and hypocrisy where it isn't. i'm not a huge fan of nancy pelosi, who blocks traffic to go shoe shopping, but passing a law and electing a person to office are two different procedures. unlike a law, a person can make promises and be held accountable for keeping them. that's what a campaign IS.
in some sense, both statements are accurate - nobody really knows what a law OR a candidate will do until they're put to the test. but if you want to know what a law promises to do, READ the law. if you want to know what a candidate will do, it's perfectly legitimate to ask the candidate to tell you, and to ridicule them if they won't at least try.
JL
but passing a law and electing a person to office are two different procedures.
But the CONCEPT of the two quotes is the same..
unlike a law, a person can make promises and be held accountable for keeping them. that's what a campaign IS.
And a politician can SAY what a law will or will not do (make promises) and be found out to be a liar...
No difference...
but if you want to know what a law promises to do, READ the law.
And if the law is INTENTIONALLY obfuscated and full of gobbldygook so that people CAN'T read them, then it's "perfectly legitimate" to ask the person PUSHING the law, the person who ostensibly wrote the law to explain it. And if they refuse to, it's "perfectly legitimate" to ridicule them that they won't at least try...
Once again, the two issues are IDENTICAL....
But, you prove my overall point about ya'all's ideological filters and me not having any...
I think BOTH are ridiculous.. Ya'all run them both thru your ideological partisan filters and DING... One pops out as ridiculous, the other pops out as perfectly acceptable..
Even though I have shown that they both are identical..
like a hammer that sees everything as a nail, you're looking for partisan ideology everywhere and hypocrisy where it isn't.
Yet, I prove time and time again that it IS present..
Are you seriously trying to tell me that there is NO Partisan Ideology or hypocrisy at play here??
Yer not claiming that, are you?? :D
Michale
i would love it if we ALL could cut down on the nonsense. agree completely.
And I agree as well...
The problem lies in the fact of we can't agree what is nonsense and what isn't...
Michale
I think that all the personal attacks on Trump are nonsense...
Ya'all don't agree...
And so it goes and so it goes...
Michale
And if the law is INTENTIONALLY obfuscated and full of gobbldygook so that people CAN'T read them
every law written has an executive summary that tells what it promises to do. every law also has endless legal gobbledygook in the text - that's about as intentional as a zebra having stripes. your argument that a legislator failing to explain a law is "IDENTICAL" to a candidate failing to explain himself, simply doesn't hold water.
Does the defence's case hoId water?
No.
~my cousin vinny
Yet, I prove time and time again that it IS present..
no, you haven't, you just think you have. feel free to go on thinking that. however, you're not going to convince anyone but yourself.
JL
continued in the day-2 column.
I think that all the personal attacks on Trump are nonsense...
Are you really this dense? Name calling is Trump's shtick. It's what he does. Half your insults came directly from him. If you don't want Trump name calling, start with him. Your hypocrisy crusade has run smack in to the wall of false equivalency. Again...
Are you really this dense? Name calling is Trump's shtick.
As I have proven beyond any doubt, the schtick is not exclusively Trump...
. If you don't want Trump name calling, start with him. Your hypocrisy crusade has run smack in to the wall of false equivalency. Again...
My point is not the name-calling...
MY point is the hypocrisy...
Michale
every law written has an executive summary that tells what it promises to do.
And Trump has given an "executive summary" of what he promises to do..
your argument that a legislator failing to explain a law is "IDENTICAL" to a candidate failing to explain himself, simply doesn't hold water.
That's your opinion.. But it's an opinion unsupported by any facts at all...
no, you haven't, you just think you have.
No, I have proven it. But, because it's run thru your partisan ideological filter, it comes out that I haven't...
But, objectively speaking, the point has been proven...
Michale
MY point is the hypocrisy...
your point is ALWAYS the hypocrisy, and very rarely accurate on that count.
That's your opinion.. But it's an opinion unsupported by any facts at all...
incorrect.
JL,
But you never answered my question..
Are you seriously trying to tell me that there is NO Partisan Ideology or hypocrisy at play here??
Yer not claiming that, are you?? :D
Michale
your point is ALWAYS the hypocrisy, and very rarely accurate on that count.
Yes.. My point is nearly ALWAYS the hypocrisy and I am ALWAYS accurate on that..
But the ideological filters at work within ya'all won't allow you to concede that..
Michale
Yes.. My point is nearly ALWAYS the hypocrisy and I am ALWAYS accurate on that..
Except you forget to mention your own, which is usually greater than those you accuse.
But the ideological filters at work within ya'all won't allow you to concede that..
That would be the mirror you refuse to look in to...
"A difference which makes no difference IS no difference."
But the ideological filters at work within ya'all won't allow you to concede that..
no, your failure to make a coherent argument won't allow me to concede that.
JL
no, your failure to make a coherent argument won't allow me to concede that.
Like I said.. I completely understand why you would say that..
But a completely non-partisan Party agnostic would see the logic of my argument...
But, unfortunately, outside of me, there are none to be found around here...
So, we'll just have to agree to disagree.... :D
Michale
Except you forget to mention your own, which is usually greater than those you accuse.
Yea, that's what you keep saying...
With absolutely ZERO facts to back it up.. :D
Michale
Yawn.
But the ideological filters at work within ya'all won't allow you to concede that..
That would be the mirror you refuse to look in to...
It's well established that I have no political ideology by the Grand Poobah hisself..
No political ideology, no political ideological filters...
You are wrong again.. Just like you were wrong when you claimed I never apologize for my mistakes..
You were wrong about that, you are wrong about this...
"And so it goes and so it goes... And so will you soon I suppose.."
-Billy Joel
:D
Michale
And how many Trump lies have you pointed out with embolden posts? When was the last time you criticized republicans beyond the "they are all the same" cop out? I have read other posters here criticize Obama more than you have criticized the right for the entire history of this site. Since you parrot every republican talking point, and jump on every anti-left bandwagon, when was the last time you parroted a left wing talking point? Jumped on a anti-right bandwagon?
"A difference which makes no difference IS no difference."
Michale wrote:
"You were saying, JM?? :D
Wanna make that bet??? :D"
SURE! I will make that bet!
By the way, the Senators in the article you cited are skipping the Democratic convention not because they are disgusted with the choice of Hillary (Unlike the Bushes and Romney are with Trump.) but because they thought it more important to campaign in their home states where they have a real chance of winning in tight contests that would flip the Senate back to Democratic control.
Also, that FBI article you cited about the Pulse nightclub not being an anti-gay attack... if you read the whole article like I did do, you would have noticed that at the very end, it said AT BEST the whole reason behind the attack was inconclusive and might never actually be known. That while there was not enough evidence to support that it was ant-gay, there was also not enough evidence to say that it was NOT anti-gay EITHER. It was ALL circumstantial.
But a completely non-partisan Party agnostic would see the logic of my argument...
left, right, center or none of the above, bad logic is still bad logic. at times i've encountered arguments that i strongly disagree with, but which are logically consistent. your appeals to hypocrisy and partisanship are not. they're generally based on false premises, and fail to cohere logically. being non-partisan doesn't make one correct, any more than being popular makes one correct.
JL
And how many Trump lies have you pointed out with embolden posts? When was the last time you criticized republicans beyond the "they are all the same" cop out?
Too many to name...
I would point them out to you, but your record proves you just ignore facts...
Michale
SURE! I will make that bet!
OK T-Shirt bet???
:D
Also, that FBI article you cited about the Pulse nightclub not being an anti-gay attack... if you read the whole article like I did do, you would have noticed that at the very end, it said AT BEST the whole reason behind the attack was inconclusive and might never actually be known. That while there was not enough evidence to support that it was ant-gay, there was also not enough evidence to say that it was NOT anti-gay EITHER. It was ALL circumstantial.
Which doesn't change the *FACT* that there is NO FACTUAL evidence to show that the club was targeted because it was ga.y...
Yea, it COULD have been a Cardassian attack, but there are NO FACTS to support that either...
Michale
left, right, center or none of the above, bad logic is still bad logic.
But you can't recognize that due to your partisan ideological filter...
EVERYTHING you read from me goes thru that filter...
being non-partisan doesn't make one correct
I never claimed that it did..
But being STRICTLY partisan almost always makes one INCORRECT...
And here we are... :D
Michale
But being STRICTLY partisan almost always makes one INCORRECT...
And here we are... :D
For example, in the 10 years that I have been here, no one (except Stig in 2014) had EVER conceded that they were wrong and I was right..
NOT.... ONE.... SINGLE..... TIME.....
So, either that never happens, which you HAVE to know is total BS..
Or.....
Ya'all CAN'T admit when you are wrong and I am right...
Employing Occam's Razor, which is the likely answer?? :D
Michale
where is this alleged filter located?
https://youtu.be/9z-uYMrWTCc
It must be very important to ya'all that I am always wrong and ya'all are always right...
And WHY is it important??
Because your partisan ideological filter demands it..
Michale
NOT.... ONE.... SINGLE..... TIME.....
how about last week and bush lying about iraq? just for starters...
how about last week and bush lying about iraq? just for starters...
Could you refresh my memory??
where is this alleged filter located?
Ya know that little punching bag thingy that hangs down from the roof of your mouth in the back of your throat?? :D
https://youtu.be/9z-uYMrWTCc
heh :D
Michale
how about last week and bush lying about iraq? just for starters...
Fair warning.. Any concession you have made that has a BUT in it is disqualified...
Not butts... :D
Michale
However, I will say for the record that, if ANYONE here had a conceded, I would expect it to be you... :D
So I am more than willing to admit I am wrong with regards to you and add you to the People Who Can Admit They're Wrong group...
Michale
"And so it goes and so it goes... And so will you soon I suppose.."
-Billy Joel
I didn't think ya would go THIS soon, Bashi.. :D
Michale
Michale wrote:
"OK T-Shirt bet???"
Refresh my memory please. What exactly is a T-shirt bet?
Michale wrote:
"Which doesn't change the *FACT* that there is NO FACTUAL evidence to show that the club was targeted because it was ga.y...
Yea, it COULD have been a Cardassian attack, but there are NO FACTS to support that either..."
Which also still doesn't change the FACT that all the politicians in the loop, both LEFT and RIGHT, both Republican and Democrat, from Obama, to Rubio, to Ryan, to even Florida's own Pam Bondi, ALL agree and say that it WAS an anti-gay attack.
Which also still doesn't change the FACT that all the politicians in the loop, both LEFT and RIGHT, both Republican and Democrat, from Obama, to Rubio, to Ryan, to even Florida's own Pam Bondi, ALL agree and say that it WAS an anti-gay attack.
And if they knew more than the FBI who are investigating the case, then you would have a point..
You know the rest..
All of the people you cite are POLITICIANS...
Of COURSE they are going to go with the politically correct bullshit...
And the ONLY reason you cite them is because they are saying EXACTLY what you want to hear...
But, as I said before..
It's pointless to debate this issue (or ANY issue) with a person (or people) whose partisan ideological filter is in complete control...
So, whatever..
Michale
@jm [154],
Refresh my memory please. What exactly is a T-shirt bet?
it's when the loser wears a predetermined t-shirt of the winner's choice for a day. see comment #32 on the GOP convention day 2 column for the link:
http://www.chrisweigant.com/2016/07/19/cleveland-day-two/#comment-80031
Michale [100] -
Oh, foof. Watching "the spread" is cheating, because it doubles the actual movement. If one percent of the public changes their minds, the spread moves two points.
Also, your numbers are wrong. Obama started the month at +4.2, then the next two days were +3.6, +3.1.
Thhhppppbbbbbt (sound of Bronx cheer).
:-)
-CW
Michale [102] -
I'm going to deliberately misinterpret that. You're right:
"He is no W."
George W. Bush's numbers for July of his final year:
27.8 approval, 67.4 disapproval.
Spread: MINUS 39.6 points.
Yep, you are entirely correct. Obama is "no W" -- he's miles and miles and miles better!
:-)
OK, gotta run, GOPfest is starting up again...
-CW
Oh, foof. Watching "the spread" is cheating,
Yes, it is... But it's the only way I can manage the deep depression that is brought on.. :^/
Ya'all know the feeling. It's the same depression that ya'all feel when the GOP does something good for the country... :D
Michale
Yep, you are entirely correct. Obama is "no W" -- he's miles and miles and miles better!
And yet, Obama is continuing *AND* expanding many Bush's CT and Domestic Surveillance programs..
:D
Michale