Trump Just Can't Help Himself
It's Monday, so Donald Trump just stood up in front of the cameras and read another speech off a TelePrompTer. For the second week in a row, this is supposed to present Trump as being a serious-minded candidate who can manage to "be presidential" when required. But if the past is any prologue, by the end of the week nobody's going to even remember this speech, because by then Trump will have had at least two or three blowups out on the campaign trail -- which will become the story, instead.
"TelePrompTer Monday" will fade into "Outrageous Statement Tuesday," and then into "Damage Control Wednesday," to be followed by "Just Being Sarcastic Thursday," in other words. Of course, I could be wrong about that, but at this point it's the smarter bet. Trump just can't help himself.
Donald Trump is who Donald Trump is. At this point, does anyone really still believe he is even capable of "pivoting" to being some other incantation of Trump who avoids the obvious rhetorical pitfalls he continually finds himself at the bottom of? Trump, from all reports, responds to pressure (from just about everyone with any experience in running or winning political campaigns) by agreeing to give one of these scripted speeches prepared by professional speechwriters. But as can clearly be seen by watching one of these speeches, he considers it a boring chore to get through before he gets to go back out and have fun at his rallies.
Trump, from all reports, considers all the Republican advisors as pointy-headed types who just can't quite grasp the genius of his freewheeling campaign style. As far as he's concerned, he did just fine in the primaries by ignoring all such advice and just winging it. He beat 16 contenders who all had such advisors whispering in their ears, proving that his campaign strategy was one that couldn't be beat by traditional campaign strategies. He is right about that -- look at the mountain of money Jeb Bush spent against Trump, to almost no avail. Trump's style did win the day for him during primary season, this is now historical fact.
What Trump can't seem to figure out (even though everyone around him must be begging him to realize it) is that the general election is not the same game as the primaries. When you're pitching to an audience that is weighing multiple candidates against a backdrop of party purity, the more extreme and outrageous your statements are, the better. Since the party (and its base) is all largely agreed upon certain ideas, it is easy to outdo all others by tossing the reddest meat you can from the stage.
General elections, however, are a choice between two major candidates, voting for minor candidates who have no chance of winning, or just staying home to watch television rather than voting. This election determines who will lead the country, not who the party nominates, and the pool of people voting is a lot deeper and wider. But Trump is content to splash around in the shallower end of this pool, much to the delight of those who already agree with him. Trump is doing almost nothing to reach out to anyone else, because he really thinks he can win just by holding big rally after big rally, and occasionally sending out scathing tweets. Hey, it worked in the primary, right?
This is where a more literal interpretation of "Trump just can't help himself" becomes operative. If Trump continues on exactly the same course he charted during the primaries, he shuts himself off from all the voters who might be persuaded to vote against Hillary Clinton. Trump has a floor of around 38-40 percent, at this point. This has been holding pretty steady for months now -- no matter what he does, he doesn't drop much below 40 percent in national polling. The problem for Trump, of course, is that 40 percent is not going to win him the election.
This election could require a lot less than 50 percent to win, it's worth pointing out. Libertarian Gary Johnson and the Green Party's Jill Stein are both pulling in a lot more support than most third parties manage in presidential campaigns. Whether or not this early support will translate into votes is an open question (people often tell pollsters they're supporting third parties only to either stay home on Election Day or vote for one of the two major candidates). But if Johnson and Stein combined pull in a range of 5-to-10 percent of November's vote (a fairly reasonable assumption at this point), this means that either Clinton or Trump could win with a national vote total as low as perhaps 46 percent. That's only six points higher than Trump's floor, so it shouldn't be completely out of reach for him.
But Trump can't seem to help himself. If he refuses to even make a concerted pitch towards the independent or undecided voters who aren't already on his side, then he's never going to close that gap. No matter how many speeches he reads off TelePrompTers.
It's only mid-August, and already there are large portions of the Republican Party who have all but given up on Trump's chances of winning the White House. That's astounding. Not so much that Republicans are giving up or panicking, but the fact that it is happening so incredibly early in the process. Such things have happened before (during Bob Dole's run in 1996, for instance), but they usually happen around mid-October. Not two months earlier. If Trump continues to ignore all advice to even attempt to change his campaign strategy, more and more Republicans -- including the big donors -- are going to make a bottom-line decision that Trump is already toast.
The wheels haven't totally come off Trump's campaign yet. He does still have an opportunity to turn things around. Most Americans are barely paying attention to the race right now. So Trump could indeed recover.
But to do that, Trump would have to be the one to help himself. Nobody is even capable of making this change right now other than him. A good measure of whether this is even possible will be how the rest of this week goes. If Trump stays on message and makes the entire week's theme what was in his speech today, then maybe he has woken up to the fact that he's tanking in the polls. If, however, Trump steps all over his own message with some off-the-cuff statement in front of an adoring crowd -- a statement so outrageous that it becomes the story for days on end -- then there may just be no helping Trump at all. Sure, his campaign team can (metaphorically) bring him down with a tranquilizer dart each Monday, then prop him up and force him to read some prepared remarks -- but if everyone's forgotten the speech by Wednesday, then it's not going to do him a whole lot of good in the end. TelePrompTer Monday is all fine and good, but if Trump is out there being Trump for the other six days of the week, few are going to pay much attention. Six days which cause independent voters to recoil in horror just can't be offset by a weekly speech delivered in a monotone in an effort to "appear serious."
Again, the safe betting is on Trump not being able to help himself. At this point, the safe betting is also on "how big Hillary Clinton's electoral landslide will be" rather than whether Trump even has a shot at winning. And it's only mid-August.
-- Chris Weigant
Cross-posted at The Huffington Post
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
If I may suggest a dessert pairing to top off CW's fine commentary, it is Triumph The Attack Comedian Dog's prank Trump supporter focus group:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MubunsD-7g
My distillation of CW,'s fine column:
Trump is Swift Boating himself. There are cruder analogies, but Swift Boating will do.
A modest solution to the Trump Dilemma:
1) handkerchief
2) chloroform
3) Trump body/voice double
[3] Folks at the RNC are thinking that right about now!
Looking at the data from state polls and my model, I see no way Trump can win this. He has only 8-10 paths to 270, while Clinton has over a thousand ways to get there.
Johnson appears to be drawing equally from Clinton and Trump. So I don't think he'll be a factor in Nov.
McMullin in the race is interesting. Sources estimate that 20-30% of Republicans will not vote for Trump. The non-Trump voters have 3 ways they can go.
1. Stay home.
2. Vote for anybody else and down ticket. No draw at top of ticket so why vote.
3. Vote for McMullin and down ticket and go home with a warm fuzzy knowing they did their duty for their party.
McMullin is only on two state ballots so far, so we'll have to wait and see.
Other than the talking heads and pundits trying to turn this into a horse race, it's a pretty boring election.
Here's the numbers from my model: EV: Clinton 342 Trump 196 and probability of a Clinton win 86%...
If he draws 1-2% it might just save 2-3 house seats and maybe a Senate seat if the races are close.
Trump's problem is that he is ignorant and boring. He will be quickly forgotten if he doesn't say something outrageous, and he keeps upping outrageous the bar for himself.
Maybe the WWE culture just can't be shaken off?
That's if McMullin draws 1-2% it might just save 2-3 house seats and maybe a Senate seat if the races are close.
[6]
neilm
Agree. Not only boring, but a boor...
Other than the talking heads and pundits trying to turn this into a horse race, it's a pretty boring election.
Except that all my friends, like me, just can't stop tuning in to see the next Trump cray-cray moment. Pure entertainment, but I wish he was down 10 more points in the polls.
McMullin just got on the ballot in Utah. Bad news for Trump in that deep red state...
Apophis [5] - Meant to say I agree it is a pretty boring election from a horse race perspective.
Again, the safe betting is on Trump not being able to help himself.
@CW: Maybe he will surprise us all and finally help himself. However it doesn't seem possible - the only sane voice he listens to, we are told, is Ivanka, and she is on vacation with Putin's girlfriend at the moment (tabloid rumor, probably utter nonsense that Murdoch has anything to do with Putin, but as I said, who wouldn't believe anything is possible with Trump?)
McMullin just got on the ballot in Utah. Bad news for Trump in that deep red state...
If Hillary wins Utah I'm going to her inauguration.
[1]
OkayThese people seem completely oblivious to what is obvious BS. Loved those promos the lowfo read at the end, particularly the one about paint chips.
I laughed so hard I had coffee coming out of my...... wherever.
[12]
neilm
Maybe McMullin will pull enough from Trump to give Clinton the state. Johnson is polling about 16% in the state, so it's game on...
apophis -5
NYT, Fivethirtyeight, Predictwise and Princeton Electoral Consortium each provide probabilities of a Clinton win in all 50 states and DC. According to my simulation model run with the above state probability sets, Trump has a very tough time winning 270 electoral votes. His best chance is when all 51 states and DC move in the same direction with regards candidate preference (100% of random variance is expressed in a single national variance component) giving Trump a 12%, 21%, 11% and 16% of winning the election for NYT, 538, PW and PEC, respectively. This allocation gives Trump his best chance of running the table among the few relatively competitive states (most state probabilities are close to zero and one). Trump's chances decline as states and DC behave more independently. His chance decline to 1%,0%,<1% and 3% for NYT, 538, PW and PEC, respectively, when all model variance is partitioned locally as 51 random trials per simulation run. Studies I have been able to find indicate a 30%-50% national variance component range is typical, which implies Trump chances of victory fall in between the extremes.
All probabilities cited above apply to 8/11 data, I run the model about every week.
Of course, I could be wrong about that, but at this point it's the smarter bet. Trump just can't help himself.
And it's THAT Trump that the people want..
Unconventional... NON Politically Correct..
What Trump can't seem to figure out (even though everyone around him must be begging him to realize it) is that the general election is not the same game as the primaries.
Yes... That IS the "conventional wisdom"...
But, as we have seen, "conventional wisdom" isn't very wise in the here and now... Ever consider that?? :D
Again, the safe betting is on Trump not being able to help himself. At this point, the safe betting is also on "how big Hillary Clinton's electoral landslide will be" rather than whether Trump even has a shot at winning. And it's only mid-August.
If you exclude ALL other factors:
1. Hillary's health
2. Hillary's email
3. Hillary's slush fund corruption
4. Terrorist attacks
.... then you might have a point..
But you CAN'T exclude those factors...
Michale
Income
Michale
Woot!!! :D
Michale
Stig,
Trump is Swift Boating himself. There are cruder analogies, but Swift Boating will do.
Didn't you say nearly the EXACT same thing during the GOP Primary???
But yer RIGHT this time, right?? :D
Michale
EXHAUSTED HILLARY Is Taking Off Weekends — And Media Is Covering It Up
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/08/hillarys-taking-weekends-off/
It's a good thing ya'all have ME around...
Else ya'all would NEVER know what was going on with Hillary.. :D
Michale
NYT, Fivethirtyeight, Predictwise and Princeton Electoral Consortium each provide probabilities of a Clinton win in all 50 states and DC.
Yea???
How did those do predicting Trump as the GOP nominee??? :D
It's called "WISH-CASTING".... :D
Michale
The Tangerine Nightmare is helping himself. He has damaged his old brand, but he's building an audience for his new one.
The Trump Channel - terrific quality conspiracy and hate TV for the poorly-educated.
There will be no disgusting reporters or dishonest talking heads discussing boring reality.
As opposed to Hussein Odumbo's Hate TV pitting black people against white people???
It's a well-documented fact that race relations has gone WAY sideways under Odumbo...
This country didn't have a racial issue until Odumbo created one...
Michale
Declining to say whether she thought Clinton should have faced criminal charges from the FBI after its probe, Stein said that the issue "raises real questions about her competency."
"I think there should have been a full investigation. I think the American people are owed an explanation for what happened, and why top secret information was put at risk, why the identity of secret agents were potentially put at risk," Stein told CNN's Carol Costello.
Asked if she thought Clinton should have faced criminal charges based on the FBI's investigation, Stein would only say that "that's a matter that deserves public discussion."
She continued, "There is much more that is coming to public attention about Hillary Clinton's behavior, including the recent revelations about favors bestowed on the Clinton Foundation's donors who got special deals, who got state partnerships."
http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/15/politics/stein-hits-clinton-on-emails/index.html
Yup....
Like I said.. Ya'all are so fixated on Trump, you can't see how Hillary is going down in flames.. The falls.. The health scares... The corruption....
It's all taking it's toll... :D
Michale
It is odd that The Orange One won't release his tax returns or health records. It's almost as if he thinks they will make crooked, old, sickly Hillary look good in comparison.
Even if you use a knife and fork, eating at KFC is a mistake.
It is odd that The Orange One won't release his tax returns or health records. It's almost as if he thinks they will make crooked, old, sickly Hillary look good in comparison.
It's odd that Crooked Rhymes-With-Witch Hillary won't release speech transcripts or health records.. It's almost as if she thinks that they will make crooked old sickly Trump look good by comparison...
You make this WAY too easy, JFC.... :D
Michale
Well said, Don.... :D
Although, as I am fond (REALLY fond) of saying, this election is like none other...
Historical precedents won't mean nearly as much as some hope they will...
It's a crap shoot, pure and simple...
If only for the fact that the ONE big thing on people's mind is terrorism...
And that's a unpredictable wild card in this election no matter how ya slice it..
Michale
Using model assumptions MOST FAVORABLE TO TRUMP, my model all 4 state data bases indicate the most likely electoral vote outcome is around 350 for Clinton.
Very close agreement with apophis @5 on that.
Very close agreement with apophis @5 on that.
So, if Limbaugh agrees with Hannity then it MUST be factual.. :D
Gotcha {wink, wink} :D
Michale
JFC-
Wasn't there a Sarah Palin Channel back in the day?
Bad ratings, or just a bad dream?
KFC switches colonels faster than the BBC switches Dr. Whos. Will Trump be wearing the white suit, glasses and string tie?
Wasn't there a Sarah Palin Channel back in the day?
Bad ratings, or just a bad dream?
Wasn't there a Left Wingery Channel called Air America back in the day???
Bad ratings or just a bad dream???
Bad ratings. The vast majority of Americans don't like to hear a bunch of privileged whiney elitists saying how bad this country sucks..
Michale
Once again... There ain't NOTHING ya'all can slam the Right for that doesn't equally apply to the Left... :D
Michale
The vast majority of Americans don't like to hear a bunch of privileged whiney[sic] elitists saying how bad this country sucks..
donald trump is a whiny privileged elitist saying how bad this country sucks. but he's also a great entertainer. right or wrong, people just don't like boring, and air america couldn't muster the talent. the hosts they had who were successful are still successful, but they were few and far between.
JL
The thing about Trump is that he thinks that capturing the daily news cycle will be his winning strategy. He must be absolutely delighted with himself, as he has successfully managed to be the headline each and every day.
Of course he's too dim to realize that his antics just continue to contribute to his ever-sinking poll numbers.
He thinks that playing to 5,000, 10,000 or even 20,000 adoring simians must mean that he's winning. But a city of several million inhabitants means that he's losing all but his die-hard bigots (his base). They're all in attendance.
Stick with it Donald. We'll have a good laugh when it's all over...
donald trump is a whiny privileged elitist saying how bad this country sucks.
Not at all.. Trump is saying what this country is doing WRONG and what we can do to change the direction this country is heading..
A direction, I might add, upwards of 80% of Americans AGREE with Trump on...
right or wrong, people just don't like boring, and air america couldn't muster the talent.
That's another possibility...
Michale
Since Trump has the pig Ailes advising him on debate prep and what not, he might as well have Cosby as his sarcasm adviser, but he seems to think that Cosby is guilty and Ailes isn't. I wonder why. What could it possibly be?
TS [32]
"Wasn't there a Sarah Palin Channel back in the day?"
That was some kind of online grift. You've gotta be on cable.
That was some kind of online grift. You've gotta be on cable.
Cable!???
Who pays for cable!?? :D
Michale
Since Trump has the pig Ailes advising him on debate prep and what not, he might as well have Cosby as his sarcasm adviser, but he seems to think that Cosby is guilty and Ailes isn't. I wonder why. What could it possibly be?
And back to the 3rd grade playground we go...
Again, THIS is what passes for "serious" discussion around here??? :^/
Well, I guess I don't mind slummin'.. makes me the adult.. :D
Michale
Pollster Zogby: 'Back to a close race,' Clinton 38%, Trump 36%
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/pow-its-just-a-2-point-race-clinton-38-trump-36/article/2599471
And ya'all said Trump's campaign was over... :^D
Don't ya'all EVER get tired of being wrong?? :D
Michale
Michale, do you know what I get tired of?
I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count ...
Liz,
I have learned that remembering that Michael resides in some Bizarro-world reality makes it easier to get through his comments. Michael disagrees with me entirely? OK, I must be correct then! Michael says that we are all wrong? Sweet, I wasn't sure if we were right, but this lets me know that we are!
HALL46 -
Welcome to the site! Your first post was held for moderation, but from now on you should be able to post your comments and see them instantly.
Just don't post more than one link per comment, as multi-link comments are automatically held for moderation (which can take me a while, at times).
In any case, welcome to the site, and sorry about the delay in approving your comment.
-CW
Liz,
Michale, do you know what I get tired of?
I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count ...
I bet ya it's the same thing *I* got tired of during the Bush years..
I'll give you 3 guesses but the first two don't count... :D
Michale
Michael disagrees with me entirely?
But you and I both know that we DON'T disagree entirely..
You see, that's your exact problem..
You are so blinded by partisan enslavement, you don't know reality.. It's YOU that lives in a bizarro world of DEMOCRATS ARE PERFECT, REPUBLICANS ARE EVIL...
Michale
HALL46,
"Welcome to the party, pal!!"
-John McClane, DIE HARD
:D
The thing about Trump is that he thinks that capturing the daily news cycle will be his winning strategy.
And yet, it worked, didn't it??
Of course he's too dim to realize that his antics just continue to contribute to his ever-sinking poll numbers.
Put his poll numbers AREN'T sinking.. He has actually closed the gap and erased Hillary's convention bump... You fail to consider that the 3rd Party candidates are taking voters from Hillary more so than they are taking from Trump..
But a city of several million inhabitants means that he's losing all but his die-hard bigots (his base). They're all in attendance.
I wonder if you can appreciate the irony of the fact that accusing all of Trump's supporters of being bigots, is a bigoted statement. :D
Stick with it Donald. We'll have a good laugh when it's all over...
He who laughs last, laughs best..
And President Trump will be laughing all the way to the White House.. :D
Michale
I bet ya it's the same thing *I* got tired of during the Bush years..
I'll give you 3 guesses but the first two don't count... :D
Seriously, Liz..
Ya'all did the same thing during the Bush years. And there were more than a dozen of ya'all..
Day in, day out, Bush bashing Bush bashing Bush bashing...
Bush bashing as far as they eye could see x 12+...
And I didn't bitch and moan and whine and take my toys and go home... I stayed right there with ya'all, day in and day out...
I guess expecting the reciprocal courtesy is simply a bridge too far... :^/
Michale
Tim Pool is a fearless social-media reporter who specializes in getting close to the action. It almost doesn’t qualify as a protest or riot if Pool isn’t live-streaming from the streets. But he’s pulling out of Milwaukee because it’s too dangerous for white people.
In a carefully stated YouTube video, Pool described the verbal taunts and threats, as well as actual violence, directed at whites. After an 18-year-old male was shot in the neck and extracted by Milwaukee police in an armored vehicle — Pool identifies the victim as white, although other press reports don’t mention his race — he concluded he had to leave. (For the record, Pool is half-Korean — not that rioters care.)
The Milwaukee unrest has taken on a more explicitly racist cast than other riots after officer-involved shootings, in yet another new low for the anti-police movement that has roiled our cities in recent years.
After Ferguson, the movement famously adopted the slogan, “Hands up, don’t shoot.” If it were to take its next catchphrase from Milwaukee, it might be (per Pool’s reporting), “F–k white people.”
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/08/16/the_anti-cop_movement_hits_a_new_low_in_milwaukee_131524.html
And the response from the Hillary campaign, the Left Wingery and Weigantians???
{{chiirrrrpppppp}} {{ccchiiiiiirrrrrppppppp}}
And ya'all STILL maintain that it's Trump and his supporters who are violent???
Mind-boggling... Simply mind-boggling...
Michale
This is the season for misuse of margin of error estimates, especially in races with 3 or more candidates. If you haven't had a good college level statistics course, or you can't remember what you learned in that class:
Do yerself a favor and shut the F up with regards to statistical interpretation of horse race polls. Unless you are trying to deliberately muddy the already muddy waters.
Do yerself a favor and shut the F up with regards to statistical interpretation of horse race polls. Unless you are trying to deliberately muddy the already muddy waters.
That's mighty elitist of you...:D
I'll remind you of this attitude of yours next time you question my expertise in LEO or military matters.. :D
As to your statistics "expertise"??
"There are lies, there are damned lies and then there are statistics"
-Mark Twain
:D
You just are getting pissy because the stats and the polls are saying what you don't want to hear.. :D
Michale
Michale
I bet ya it's the same thing *I* got tired of during the Bush years..
I'll give you 3 guesses but the first two don't count... :D
Seriously, Liz..
Ya'all did the same thing during the Bush years. And there were more than a dozen of ya'all..
Day in, day out, Bush bashing Bush bashing Bush bashing...
Bush bashing as far as they eye could see x 12+...
And I didn't bitch and moan and whine and take my toys and go home... I stayed right there with ya'all, day in and day out...
I guess expecting the reciprocal courtesy is simply a bridge too far... :^/
{{ccchhhiirrrrrppppppp}} {{{ccchhhhhiiiirrrrrppppppp}}}
Yea... That's what I thought.... :^/
Michale
And ya'all STILL maintain that it's Trump and his supporters who are violent???
i don't think anybody here ever said that, much less maintained it. outbreaks of violence have cropped up on all sides, and have been dead wrong in every case.
what's unusual about donald's campaign in this respect isn't the violence itself, but the willingness of the candidate himself to openly advocate its use.
JL
who are violent???
i don't think anybody here ever said that, much less maintained it.
I grant you that it hasn't been of late.. Probably because the facts make it so blatantly obviously false...
But the attacks on Trump and Trump supports as violent crazies and thugs by Weigantians is well documented...
what's unusual about donald's campaign in this respect isn't the violence itself, but the willingness of the candidate himself to openly advocate its use.
As opposed to the Left Wingery who actually USES violence....
If you have two groups..
One group "advocates" use of violence in the form of campaign hyperbole...
Another group who actually USES violence on a regular and ongoing bases and where there is a subset group of the larger group who is silent when violence is employed...
Well, it seems to me that the second group is the group that has issues...
Michale
outbreaks of violence have cropped up on all sides,
Really??
When was the last time violence "cropped up" coming from Trump or his supporters??
Michale
Seems to me you want to try and mitigate the violence coming from the Left by showing that the Right also does it..
You have learned well, grasshopper.. :D
But seriously, there hasn't been much, if any violence coming from the Right in the last 4-6 months.. It's all come from the Left...
And the Left Wingery has been virtually silent on it, with the exception of a few cursory platitudes, along the lines of, "We condemn the violence, But Trump blaaa blaaa blaaaa"
The Democrat Party even HONORED the thugs and scumbags at their convention...
No, it's clear that the Democrat Party needs to take a more forceful stand against these thugs and scumbags...
Michale
at least based on a few quick searches, the last two and a half months hasn't seen actual violence surrounding either campaign. the only violence in the news has been by or against the police. that's tragic enough.
the only violence in the news has been by or against the police. that's tragic enough.
Committed by (O)BLM scumbags who the Democrat Party honored at their convention...
A group who Hillary says she firmly and unequivocally supports..
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and destroys property, loots and pillages and attacks white people, then it's part of the Hillary campaign...
Funny how there has been absolutely NO CONDEMNATION from Hillary about Milwaukee.. Nor from anyone here...
Yet *Trump* went there to talk with the community...
Hillary??? Weigantia????
{{cchhhhirrrrrpppppp}} {{ccchhhiiiiirrrrrrpppppp}}
Another good shoot.. Another riot by (O)BLM hoods, thugs and scumbags...
Michale
Another good shoot.. Another riot by (O)BLM hoods, thugs and scumbags...
have i mentioned that bullying and name-calling in schools has increased in epidemic proportions last school year, and children of color are afraid of being deported?
https://www.splcenter.org/20160413/trump-effect-impact-presidential-campaign-our-nations-schools#about
Not sure the relevance this has to the (O)BLM morons and scumbags...
But, when in Rome.. :D
Faced with the choice between maintaining neutrality and denouncing rhetoric that’s counter to their values, many respondents indicated they would abandon neutrality.
That's the problem.. Once you abandon neutrality, you become an advocate....
An advocate teacher will teach TRUMP IS A RACIST when the facts clearly don't support the lesson..
An advocate teacher will teach TRUMP WANTS TO BAN MUSLIMS when the facts clearly don't support the lesson..
Basically those teachers have the exact same problem that journalists have..
They have abandoned neutrality and a Sgt Joe Friday approach in favor of being an activist..
That's bad...
Michale
They have abandoned neutrality and a Sgt Joe Friday approach in favor of being an activist..
there's a big difference between objectivity and neutrality. no matter that you refuse to acknowledge it, there is ample evidence both that that donald has made statements that most people would consider racist, and that he proposed a ban on muslims, and was unclear about just how temporary it might be.
name-calling is an ad-hominem argument, and not to be considered seriously. every time you insist upon calling people hoods, thugs and scumbags, intentionally misspelling or misstating their names, is putting yourself in the same category as all those lefties who refer to donald as the racist fascist orange-hued hitler. that's your choice.
and sure, i could come out and tell you what a jackass you're being, but that would not be a valid argument.
if it's your preference for your arguments to be invalid i can't stop you, but name-calling is a real problem, and you're not helping. the national trend that donald started of name-calling hispanics and muslims has permeated far beyond the political sphere, and has reached the classrooms and the hallways of schools, to the point where teachers can't avoid addressing it. and once it's out there, being objective makes it impossible to be neutral.
JL
correction, it has to be considered seriously, just not valid.
name-calling is an ad-hominem argument, and not to be considered seriously.
Except when the Left Wingery, the vast majority of Weigantians or Hillary Clinton does it.. :D
every time you insist upon calling people hoods, thugs and scumbags, intentionally misspelling or misstating their names, is putting yourself in the same category as all those lefties who refer to donald as the racist fascist orange-hued hitler. that's your choice.
The difference being that *I* do it to point out the differences in the reaction..
As your comment perfectly illustrates... When you start calling out JFC, Paula, et al as often as you call out me, then you will have a logical and rational argument..
But not until then...
if it's your preference for your arguments to be invalid i can't stop you, but name-calling is a real problem, and you're not helping.
No.. YOUR lack of consistency is not helping...
. the national trend that donald started of name-calling hispanics and muslims has permeated far beyond the political sphere,
If Trump had actually called hispanics and muslims names, then you would have a point.. But Trump's name-calling has been limited to scumbag terrorists and scumbag criminals..
No one could logically or rationally have a problem with that..
Michale
if it's your preference for your arguments to be invalid i can't stop you, but name-calling is a real problem, and you're not helping.
As long as name-calling is the acceptable form of political debate from the WPG, I will continue to play by those rules....
Michale
The difference being that *I* do it to point out the differences in the reaction..
and if i believe that one, i bet you have a bridge to sell me.
i'm starting a war for peace
~monty python's flying circus
and if i believe that one, i bet you have a bridge to sell me.
Whether you believe it or not is not relevant to the discussion.. It's the same reason I bring up meaningless polls.. To point out and emphasis the differences in reactions....
The simple fact is, I have PROVEN beyond any doubt that I can have discussions totally devoid of any sort of name-calling whatsoever..
If you want to get ME to stop, you will at least have to make an effort to call others on it as well... It's unfair for you to call me on it and give the others who indulge, free reign, just because you happen to agree with them....
"These laws aren't just for Yangs or Kooms... They must apply to everyone!! Or they mean nothing! Do you understand, Cloud William!?"
-Captain James T Kirk, STAR TREK, The Omega Glory
:D
Michale
If you want to get ME to stop, you will at least have to make an effort to call others on it as well
@michale,
jfc's consistently ridiculous name-calling does not spam the forum. i have pointed it out before, it's just not as prevalent as yours due to not being posted for seven-to-ten epic posts in succession. same goes for paula or neil and their occasional venture into the realm of the ad hominem. the reason you get so much more flack for it is twofold - first, it's due to the sheer volume of your posting. it's neither my fault nor my responsibility that you've chosen to flood the place with poor argumentation, when you and i both know you're capable of rational argument. secondly, most partisans here own their partisanship. your pretense at objectivity paints a pretty big target when your ad hominem arguments are anything but objective.
JL
jfc's consistently ridiculous name-calling does not spam the forum.
Depends on how you define "spam"....
The problem is, your definition, like everyone else's definition, is ideologically based..
If I posted in the EXACT same manner, but posted in defense of Hillary and attacked Trump, I would be the BMOC around here and everyone would LOVE my "spam"...
The simple fact is, because you are not consistent with your condemnation of "name-calling" that gives you no moral foundation to call me on my "name-calling" because, as with the definition of "spam", it's ideologically based...
Like I said, I am simply playing by the established rules... They apply equally to me as they do to everyone else...
it's just not as prevalent as yours due to not being posted for seven-to-ten epic posts
"Epic"??
Why, thank you.. :D
Michale
same goes for paula or neil and their occasional venture into the realm of the ad hominem.
Not my fault that they can't keep up.. :D
Michale
it's neither my fault nor my responsibility that you've chosen to flood the place with poor argumentation,
The problem is, what you term as "poor argumentation" is in actuality, facts that can't be addressed without admitting culpability..
For example, I bring up how the RCP POPs shows Hillary's numbers going town and Trump's numbers going up...
That's a damn fine argument against all the TRUMP IS TOAST bs that permeates the community as of late...
But it's ignored precisely BECAUSE it's a good argument... :D
Michale
Obama's and Hillary's "ban" (a temporary ban is still a ban) on muslims out of Iraq in 2011 is another damn fine argument..
But, outside of you, I doubt anyone will acknowledge it...
So what is termed as "poor argumentation" is simply nothing more than a complete inability (present company excepted :D) to address the FACTS that put Hillary, Obama and the entire Demcorat Party in a bad light...
Michale
The problem is, your definition, like everyone else's definition, is ideologically based..
no, it's based on VOLUME.
spam: posting useless crap on forums over and over
~the urban dictionary
what makes it useless is that it's generally filled with ad hominem and other logical fallacies. it's the "over and over" part that makes michale's writings spam and JFC's not so much.
what makes it useless is that it's generally filled with ad hominem and other logical fallacies.
Just as Paula's, Neils, JFC's etc etc comments are..
THAT's my point..
But you don't see their comments as "useless" because you agree with them and disagree with mine...
Like I said, if I posted the exact same way, but posted how much Hillary is da bomb and how much Trump sucks purple panther piss, my comments WOULDN'T be spam...
Ergo, your definition is COMPLETELY ideologically based..
Michale
no, it's based on VOLUME.
So *I* am to be penalized just because ya'all can't keep up???
:D
Regardless, it's NOT based on "Volume"...
If my "volume" were the same, just in SUPPORT of Hillary and the Demcorats, no one here would have a problem with it..
Ergo, VOLUME is not the issue... Ideology is the issue...
Michale
So *I* am to be penalized just because ya'all can't keep up???
thank you for acknowledging that you tend to post excessively. yes, that together with the high percentage of ridiculous arguments versus valid arguments, makes it spamming in my opinion. a little less quantity and a little more quality would be helpful.
JL
thank you for acknowledging that you tend to post excessively.
I have never NOT acknowledged that.. I have readily admitted it on more than one occasion..
yes, that together with the high percentage of ridiculous arguments versus valid arguments, makes it spamming in my opinion.
I respect that opinion.. But, as I have pointed out.. If my posts had been like ya'all's posts (ALL DEMCORAT YAA YAA ALL OF THE TIME) then you WOULDN'T call it spamming..
So, your opinion is not based on volume but rather on ideological content...
a little less quantity and a little more quality would be helpful.
Quality is in the eye of the beholder..
Hillary is awesome!!! Hillary is going to be the most awesomest POTUS in history!!!
THAT is a "quality" post in the eyes of Weigantians..
Like I said.. SOLELY and COMPLETELY based on ideological content...
Michale
a little less quantity and a little more quality would be helpful.
It is odd that The Orange One won't release his tax returns or health records. It's almost as if he thinks they will make crooked, old, sickly Hillary look good in comparison.
Even if you use a knife and fork, eating at KFC is a mistake.
THAT is what passes for "quality" around here..
No thanx.
I'll stick with my quantity un-"quality" comments, thank you very much...
Just remember, I am playing by the rules established by the WPG...
Ya can't blame me, just because I play the game better, with more passion.. :D
Michale