Obama Should Reschedule Marijuana Now
President Obama made some news the other day with another slew of pardons and commutations, adding to his record number as president. Obama has pardoned more people than all presidents back to Truman combined, which is both notable and commendable. Many of these pardons came for Draconian sentences handed out during the worst years of the War On Drugs, when people were routinely sentenced to long prison terms not so much for possessing cocaine but rather for possessing the wrong type of cocaine (when there was a 100-to-1 disparity between crack and powdered cocaine in federal sentencing laws). Obama is doing what he can for the cause of criminal justice reform, but there's one more thing he really should do before he leaves office -- reschedule marijuana so that it is not considered more dangerous than methamphetamine and opium. Contrary to his statements in the past, he can achieve this by directing his attorney general to sign a piece of paper -- congressional approval is not required at all. So in the midst of correcting some abuses of the Drug War with last-minute pardons, Obama should take this proactive step to change the federal War On Weed as part of his presidential legacy.
Of course, what one president does can be undone by another president. Donald Trump could just as easily direct his attorney general to change the law back. Politically, though, this will be tough to justify, which is one reason why Obama should act before he leaves office. The classification of marijuana has always been more political than scientific, after all. John Ehrlichman, a top aide to Richard Nixon (who was president when the drug schedules were created), even admitted this, in a remarkably candid statement:
You want to know what this was really all about? The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black people, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.
Barack Obama, a president who both won the Nobel Peace Prize and is black, could change Nixon's nakedly political classification before he leaves office. That would be truly ironic.
Of course, the real answer to federal legal reform on marijuana is to completely declassify it -- move it off the schedules entirely, and hand enforcement and regulation over to the same bureau that deals with alcohol and tobacco. That's the sensible end of the road, but that isn't realistic to hope for before Obama leaves office. At the very least, though, Obama could reschedule marijuana to a lesser level, to reflect the new reality at the state level.
Here are the classification criteria (from the text of the law) for all five of these schedules, for reference:
(1) Schedule I.
(A) The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse.
(B) The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States.
(C) There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision.(2) Schedule II.
(A) The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse.
(B) The drug or other substance has a currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States or a currently accepted medical use with severe restrictions.
(C) Abuse of the drug or other substances may lead to severe psychological or physical dependence.(3) Schedule III.
(A) The drug or other substance has a potential for abuse less than the drugs or other substances in schedules I and II.
(B) The drug or other substance has a currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States.
(C) Abuse of the drug or other substance may lead to moderate or low physical dependence or high psychological dependence.(4) Schedule IV.
(A) The drug or other substance has a low potential for abuse relative to the drugs or other substances in schedule III.
(B) The drug or other substance has a currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States.
(C) Abuse of the drug or other substance may lead to limited physical dependence or psychological dependence relative to the drugs or other substances in schedule III.(5) Schedule V.
(A) The drug or other substance has a low potential for abuse relative to the drugs or other substances in schedule IV.
(B) The drug or other substance has a currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States.
(C) Abuse of the drug or other substance may lead to limited physical dependence or psychological dependence relative to the drugs or other substances in schedule IV.
Marijuana is currently Schedule I, which is just not supported by the facts. Schedule II -- drugs deemed less dangerous than marijuana -- includes such substances as cocaine, opium, amphetamine (Dexedrine), methamphetamine, and PCP. Is marijuana more dangerous than any of them? No, it is not. There is not a shred of scientific evidence which would even suggest such a thing. The classification is nothing more than a hangover from Nixon's "enemies list," in fact, which no president since has seen fit to reverse.
Over half of the United States have now legalized medical marijuana. That is, both de facto and de jure, "currently accepted medical use in treatment." Period. A clear majority consensus exists when over half the states allow for legal medical marijuana. So how can anyone argue that marijuana deserves to be classified higher than Schedule II? It is an indefensible position, at this point.
Barack Obama got elected promising (among other things) that science would dictate his policies, rather than politics. He has had a mixed record on this front, which is why he could dramatically improve his legacy by rescheduling marijuana on his way out the door. Scientifically, it's hard to justify classifying marijuana higher than Schedule III -- and a good case could be made for either Schedule IV or Schedule V.
The Drug Enforcement Agency was taken to court over this issue, and they were forced to publicly consider recommending rescheduling marijuana. Earlier this year, they chose not to. They are the frontline drug warriors, so it's not that hard to understand their position. But the D.E.A. doesn't actually have the final word on the issue. The attorney general does.
Obama's Justice Department has a somewhat mixed record on waging the War On Weed, although this improved as time went on (especially in his second term). But the incoming attorney general is going to be Jeff Sessions, who previously joked that he didn't think badly of the KKK -- until he discovered that some of them smoked pot. That's the man who will be in charge, next year.
Obama has nothing to lose by rescheduling marijuana in his final days. If Sessions just reschedules it back, then we would be left with the status quo anyway. But Obama should force Sessions to actively do so, insuring that such a move will be scrutinized very publicly (as opposed to leaving it as it is, which will get zero media attention). The scheduling decision has always been a political one, but the stance that Nixon took back in the 1970s is not going to be as easy to defend in the political arena of 2017. Times have changed, in other words. At the very least, Obama will spur a very public conversation over the issue of how the federal government sees marijuana -- even if Sessions does act and just moves marijuana back to Schedule I. That discussion, in and of itself, should be valuable enough to spur Obama to act.
President Obama's time in the Oval Office is limited. As he considers what he can do before he leaves, I would strongly urge him to take a very scientific look at the federal classification of marijuana. The position that it has no medical value is now nothing more than laughable fiction. It is indefensible on the face of it. Obama can change this and he really should before leaving office. He promised, when campaigning, to let science dictate policy rather than politics. Rescheduling marijuana on his way out would help fulfill this promise and add to his presidential legacy.
-- Chris Weigant
Cross-posted at The Huffington Post
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
OK, while I agree from a scientific (i.e. reality) standpoint obviously, I'm worried that weaponizing Marijuana would force people to choose sides. Who would have believed a year a go that Putin would be the villain of the left and the darling of the right?
I think Obama just leaves this one alone. Sessions is likely to overreach and if Trump can't shout "Obama wanted it so it must be bad" to his dittoheads then the dittoheads might just, for once, think for themselves.
Plus Trump has had little to say about marijuana to date, but you know he likes to pick a fight he is sure to win and by "instructing" Sessions to reverse the last act of that pot smoking black guy who should never have been in the White House (I mean it is even called the White House) his minions will trot along with their chests puffed out with righteous indignation. This could set marijuana reform backwards two decades.
Let's let Sessions start to take medicine away from ill kids and make marijuana sympathetic, not a Obama/Trump political toy.
Also Sessions would have to go against that darling of the right "States Rights" and become the face of the "Federal Government".
I want him to be seen as the intractable dictator in Washington. It is time the left got to play back the nonsense we have had to listen to from the right.
Given that Hillary would have faced a Republican House and a Republican Senate, and that 16 years of one party in the White House is almost unheard of, and that the Democratic Party needed some new blood with an opportunity to make it to the very top, coupled with the fact that Trump and his band of merry men are the most inexperienced bunch of yahoos to ever try to run this country in the modern era, perhaps in four years time we will look back at 2016 as the year that America refocused on politics and its leadership.
That was a long sentence and I'm exhausted.
Talking of Yahoos Peter Navarro just got appointed to Trump's trade council. Here is an economist who can't grasp the concepts of trade, wealth and automation.
If Trump wants to start and lose a trade war as almost his first act he couldn't have picked a more useless clown.
The basic premise is that China is so organized and smart that they are outmaneuvering us at every step. I've sat across the table from some highly placed Chinese administrators and can tell you their grasp of macroeconomics is at the Navarro level.
In addition Beijing can't control the Province next door, let alone coordinate an economic plan beyond "apply cheap labor and copy any ideas from the more sophisticated".
This is changing, but as it does China start to realize and adopt the values of Western trade practices because they are learning why they are important. A lesson our new leader might want to learn before he has to learn it the hard way.
How to lose a trade war:
1. Appoint pointlessly irritating people that piss off your largest trading partner
2. Mouth off about currency manipulation when your prior economic experience has peaked at "putting holes in large lawns for people in ridiculous clothing to put small balls in using hopelessly inappropriate tools designed in the fifteenth century".
3. Choose a point in time to mouth off about currency manipulation when your own currency is already high against a basket of major currencies.
4. Pick as a target a country that has pegged their currency to yours and is spending reserves to try to prop their currency up.
5. Make sure that the target is also the holder of large amounts of your debt.
6. Fail to understand that to continue to prop up their currency and, and to mess with you, they can start to sell that debt and jawbone about selling more in the future, thus pushing interest rates up in your country
7. Start to become nervous when the higher interest rates further increase the value of your currency, starting a vicious cycle that you have no control over
8. Watch as jobs get sucked out of the economy because nobody can afford to pay for your country's goods because your currency is spiraling up.
9. Be further surprised when you suddenly learn that since a huge amount of debt around the World is denominated in your escalating currency your foreign customers are also getting squeezed with higher debt burdens just as you need them to buy more of your goods to stop the job losses
10. Lose the election in 2020 and let a Democrat come back into the White House to clean up another economic mess - the third in a row for incoming Democratic Presidents.
And, yet, Neil, it is true that some Democrat-leaning voters who are politically savvy with a very grounded sense of history are astonishingly sick and tired of hearing that the Democrats are better at managing the economy.
In other words, sound strictly economic arguments don't work on their own and Democrats must find a more appealing strategy.
Unfortunately, Trump’s unrealistic promises to save the coal industry detract from any serious conversation the nation should be having on what to do about coal workers losing their jobs and how to help them transition to new jobs in the advanced economy.
Trump is going to make life worse for the cola miners. I know it isn't fashionable, and people think there should be better solutions, but if we took the money that Trump is poised to waste propping up a dead industry and invested it in the people and economic ones e might be able to help these communities.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2016/12/06/trump-cant-deliver-on-his-coal-promises/
In other words, sound strictly economic arguments don't work on their own and Democrats must find a more appealing strategy.
This wasn't meant to be an argument for Democrats Elizabeth, I was highlighting the problems with letting people like Navarro get their hands on the levels of power. Note that this can all happen without one tariff. But heaven help us if Trump starts gratuitously slapping tariffs on particular goods, industries or even individual companies.
However I presume (correct me if I'm wrong) that you are talking about the results for average Americans. The macroeconomy turns around, deficits get controlled, inflation is mastered and the stock market doubles - but what use is that to the average person who (median net worth about $90-$100K, including property) doesn't see the income or wealth gains?
If that is your point, then nothing. As I've repeatedly said, the Gini Coefficient is climbing (i.e. we are becoming a more unequal society). The Democratic Party is becoming the party of the well educated, and they are doing remarkable well from this economy. The poorer educated, and thus poorer (see figures below) seem to want to vote their bibles and their guns, and an undercurrent of "I'm already overtaxed and Washington just wastes money" is swelling.
So, as Altohone, Don, and others point out, the economic policies of both parties are suspect at best, yet when I try to find the extreme voices who are shouting about equality in the most strident terms, voices that abound in the United Kingdom and Europe, I have to apologize to Altohone because they aren't here.
I'll accept the label center right, or reactionary, on a European or UK scale, but over here I'm mostly center left. Yet there isn't that much room to the left of me (but some). The right seems to have its bomb throwers - Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, etc. - where is the outrage on the left? Who is trying to be the extreme left that gives the rest of the left some room philosophically? These people are required and they seem to be missing.
2013 Median Wealth by Education ($k):
No High School: $17
High School: $52
Some College: $47
Graduate: $219
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_in_the_United_States#Wealth_distribution
“They’re always polite, they always upsell, they never take a vacation, they never show up late, there’s never a slip-and-fall, or an age, sex or race discrimination case,”
Our new Labor Secretary Andrew Pudzer talking about the advantages of robots over people.
“We want you to keep going with the incredible innovation. Anything we can do to help this go along, we’re going to be there for you.”
Trump to top tech execs last week.
If that is your point, then nothing.
My point was that if Democrats don't recognize and acknowledge the failures as well as the successes of their past administrations and campaigns, they will lose again in 2020.
1. Appoint pointlessly irritating people that piss off your largest trading partner
As opposed to appeasing enemies and giving away the kitchen sink in trade negotiations??
I have always wondered what IS it about the Left that they think that appeasing enemies (Iran, China, Russia) is the way to go...
The right seems to have its bomb throwers - Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, etc. - where is the outrage on the left?
Yer kidding, right???
Screaming Brooklyn lawyer chases down Ivanka Trump and yells at her as she sits with her kids on flight - and his Hillary supporter husband BOASTS about the verbal attack before they're kicked off
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4059082/Ivanka-Trump-aggressively-confronted-man-JetBlue-sitting-children-screams-father-ruining-country-asks-flight.html
Sounds like a outraged Left Winger bomb-thrower to me...
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As opposed to appeasing enemies and giving away the kitchen sink in trade negotiations??
Oh for Pete's sake. I've got Altohone pointing out the rapacious corporations dictating liability and other terms in free trade deals, and now claims that we are giving the kitchen sink away.
Firstly, which country do you have a problem with? Mexico, China, some other? What exactly is the problem with the free trade deals such as NAFTA that you believe are in this "kitchen sink" category? Repeating Trump's talking points is easy, explaining what the issues are and why they are so detrimental for the U.S. is another level of conversation.
And if you are going to talk about manufacturing jobs, then bring an analysis of the impact of free trade deals versus automation, and also explain why American companies shouldn't be allowed to utilize low cost labor but e.g. European companies who we compete with can. How you would target foreign companies that leverage low cost labor to undercut our companies and how, you would make American companies competitive in World markets. Remember tariffs only increase prices in the U.S., not the other ~80% of the World's economy.
It isn't as simple as Trump is telling you. We went thru the simple model of a German company competing using Mexican labor against an American company and you hit the nuclear button (tariffs targeting a single German company) immediately. What is there was also a Chinese company, plus a Mexican company, plus a host of others, each using cheap labor.
Our free trade deals try to level the playing field by imposing, for example, worker safety, child labor, and intellectual property restrictions to help level the playing field for American workers and American companies. Sure, our workforce seems to be focused on racism, or guns or the Kardashians, or bibles and so isn't demanding a seat at the table, but that shouldn't mean our commercial enterprises are hamstrung by our ignorance or apathy.
It might be an idea not to regurgitate Trump's talking points about China stealing our jobs unless you can articulate details of how exactly they are doing it without our company's help. Or Mexico.
Sounds like a outraged Left Winger bomb-thrower to me...
What on earth does this have to do with a coherent, if in my view, left wing, political movement?
There are increasing examples of pathetic behavior because of the insulting behavior that became mainstream in the election. Jump out of your bubble and check out the clown who was banned from Delta, or the other clown more recently banned from a shopping mall. There has been an increase in intolerant behavior in the last six months or so. Are you claiming that it is only on the left and the rabble rousers are always left wingers?
Yer kidding, right???
List them out.
My point was that if Democrats don't recognize and acknowledge the failures as well as the successes of their past administrations and campaigns, they will lose again in 2020.
My experience with American Democrats is that they are too willing to self flagellate, while the right marches on shamelessly and wins. Look at the reaction from the mainstream right to the 2012 post mortem - basically they said screw it, we just need to gin up the white folks more so let's get going.
Focusing on the economic failures of Clinton and Obama doesn't make sense when Reagan and Bush 2 collapsed the working and middle class with trickle down. It is like replacing the quarterback in the second half because he missed a pass when your team is 20 points up.
Screaming Brooklyn lawyer chases down Ivanka Trump and yells at her as she sits with her kids on flight
How did he chase her down if she was sitting in her seat?
Haven't had a chance to deal with comments yet, but here are two program notes:
First, today's column is up, but it's a seasonal repeat, sorry.
Second, this is your last chance to get in suggestions for part 1 of the awards column. Do so at the comments to last Thursday's article:
http://www.chrisweigant.com/2016/12/15/nominations-are-now-open/#comments
We now return you to your regularly scheduled comments...
-CW
Hey CW
"Obama is doing what he can for the cause of criminal justice reform"
Oh come now, yee faithful.
Pardons and commutations is pathetic compared to what he could have done.
I can't believe you believe Obama will reclassify at the eleventh hour.
Don't get me wrong.
He should.
But he won't.
He wasn't who he claimed to be, and all Dems should know that by now.
If he had done it earlier... say the day after he won reelection... there would have been four years of court precedents to make reclassification a bigger political hurdle.
If he does it now, it's one notification in the federal register to undo it.
I still hope you're right.
And I hope he pardons Manning, Snowden and the rest of the whistleblowers... and... is there another phrase equivalent to not holding your breath because that one has worn on me?
A
OK, I wasn't going to participate...
But Rahm Emmanuel should be a late entry for some award for using private email to avoid public transparency laws too.
That sniveling little suit deserves repeated trips through the wringer.
On another topic, it was recently announced that the Fukushima cleanup cost estimate had doubled again... after already doubling from the initial HUGE number.
And since the cleanup is expected to take 40 years, it's highly likely the numbers will double a few more times.
Don't know if there are any pro-nukers here, but those are some sobering numbers to look at given that taxpayers are on the line if something similar happens here.
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neil
3
In all my years at home while I was growing up, we had the same can opener.
Last year, I bought a new can opener that looked almost exactly like the one I used growing up, but it was made in China, and broke after six months.
Some may blame a devious planned obsolescence that forces repeated purchases... but I think that if they can't master the cutting edge (ba dum bum)technology of opening cans, people are worrying far too much.
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Liz
5
"sick and tired of hearing that the Democrats are better at managing the economy"
Yup.
Because "better" is an astonishingly low bar.
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neil
13
Thanks for the mentions, and I'm not disputing your points... but since you mentioned labor provisions, enforceable labor and environmental provisions lacking in our trade deals is a problem in my eyes.
If they were enforceable and enforced, there would be an ever so slightly smaller incentive to offshore... and it would help people overseas more too... not to mention that polluted air from China does tend to head toward California.
Apologies if I'm repeating myself...
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neil
16
"Focusing on the economic failures of Clinton and Obama doesn't make sense when Reagan and Bush 2 collapsed the working and middle class with trickle down."
It does make sense when they continue 98% of those policies... and candidates who won't do that need to be distinguished from that nonsense.
Just sayin there is a purpose behind the criticism.
It would also fall into the category I think you called "room philosophically on the left" in comment 7 too.
A
I think that if they can't master the cutting edge (ba dum bum)technology of opening cans, people are worrying far too much.
Well the Russians got a fright when they sold them some military aircraft and a few years later found China selling knock-offs cheaper and undercutting them. Now I've not tested either (joke, I'm not even a pilot) so the Chinese ones may drop out of the sky when used in earnest, but the consensus is that Chinese engineering is getting a lot better, especially with all the U.S. trained experts running their companies:
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/china-stole-fighter-russia%E2%80%94-its-coming-the-south-china-sea-17087
China's problem is not in individual or tactical expertise, quite the opposite. Beijing lacks the ability to effectively run a strategic plan at the moment. This may not be the case in 10-20 years, and thus three things could happen:
1. China is almost certain to become the World's largest economy
2. China is likely to become an innovation powerhouse
3. China's military may catch up with ours in the ability to project non-nuclear power anywhere in the World (this is a bar that just needs to be jumped over - you get very little advantage by showing you can clear it by 100 feet as opposed to 1 inch. This is an important point that the MIC does not want us to focus on.)
The alternative, which I think is just as likely is that China collapses economically due to structural issues, just as Japan did. This will probably not stop them becoming the World's largest economy, but they will be so focused on internal issues that they will not become hegemonic.
It would also fall into the category I think you called "room philosophically on the left" in comment 7 too.
I believe we agree on targets. I believe we differ on political realism.
Even my "cock-eyed" optimism about life does not stretch to believing the current American electorate can make decisions based on reality as opposed to feeling (btw: yes Michale - cock-eyed - check out the South Pacific soundtrack my friend, there is really a song and it is great - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0DusO6ipLw).
Thus we need to focus on the ability to project power based on the electorate we have. You may well be right and that a pure voice from the left will sweep the electorate off their feet, but I feel that the American public are naturally center right and that it is the duty of society to swing the electorate to the left to give our leaders the oxygen to act.
In this way my philosophy is that we get the leaders we deserve for the most part. The Maggie Thatcher's of this World who really impose change (even though I disagree with a lot of what she did) come alone once in a lottery ticket. Counting on a prophet to lead us out of the wilderness is like buying a lottery ticket as your retirement plan.
If they were enforceable and enforced, there would be an ever so slightly smaller incentive to offshore... and it would help people overseas more too... not to mention that polluted air from China does tend to head toward California.
The environment in China is a disgrace. But it is not dissimilar to America or Britain even by the late 1960's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuyahoga_River
Child labor laws are becoming enforced as Western companies becomes shamed for e.g. soccer balls stitched by kids, fashion clothes from fire disaster prone hell holes, etc. These firms make sure that the trade agreements stop their competitors from being able to undercut them by getting around laws they now need to obey.
It isn't perfect, but it is better.
Neil,
Firstly, which country do you have a problem with? Mexico, China, some other?
Mainly China.. Mexico is not a threat to the US... :D
Repeating Trump's talking points is easy, explaining what the issues are and why they are so detrimental for the U.S. is another level of conversation.
A level I am not intellectually prepared to participate.. So I just have to be happy with the occasional 'common-sense-based' drive-bys. :D
It isn't as simple as Trump is telling you.
That's the genius of Trump. He can take complex issues and break them down so that knuckle-dragging ground pounders like me can understand them.. :D
It might be an idea not to regurgitate Trump's talking points about China stealing our jobs unless you can articulate details of how exactly they are doing it without our company's help. Or Mexico.
And yet, one of the very first acts President Elect Trump did was save almost a thousand jobs from going to Mexico...
Jump out of your bubble and check out the clown who was banned from Delta,
You mean the YouTube star that makes it a habit of screwing with air-crews so he can film himself???
There has been an increase in intolerant behavior in the last six months or so.
I know.. But they are Left Wingers and have ALWAYS been intolerant.. But they have had the media and the administration on their side until now..
Are you claiming that it is only on the left and the rabble rousers are always left wingers?
Nope.. Right Wingers have their assholes as well... But in the here and now, it is the Left Wingers who have center stage...
Look at the reaction from the mainstream right to the 2012 post mortem - basically they said screw it, we just need to gin up the white folks more so let's get going.
You'll have to quote that for me, because the gist *I* got from the post-mortem was that the GOP wanted to "gin up" more on the identity politics..
Good thing Trump stopped all that BS because, as has been aptly proven beyond any doubt, identity politics is a sure fire way to LOSE elections..
How did he chase her down if she was sitting in her seat?
I dunno.. You'll have to ask the Left Winger asshole stalker scumbag that made the twit...
Imagine being PROUD of harassing a lady and her small children...
"What a douche.."
-Dean Winchester
buying a lottery ticket as your retirement plan.
It doesn't work!??? :D
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Mainly China.. Mexico is not a threat to the US... :D
So this isn't about trade? Also, can you list the free trade agreements we have with China. (A: No. Of course not, because we don't have any.)
So this is really a call for war. The trade issue is just a ginned up excuse for armed conflict.
That's the genius of Trump. He can take complex issues and break them down so that knuckle-dragging ground pounders like me can understand them.. :D
Have you ever considered Trump might not understand the complex issues either and be repeating 19th hole drivel that I hear all the time from self impressed know-it-alls whose knowledge is basically zero but whose self confidence and BS levels are set to 11?
And are you also telling us that you are willing to believe everything a self-confident politician tells you?
You mean the YouTube star that makes it a habit of screwing with air-crews so he can film himself???
Nope. Try again. Or the woman banned from the mall recently. This is a genuine request - do you hear about these things in your bubble or do you only get news of "left wing" incidents?
buying a lottery ticket as your retirement plan.
It doesn't work!??? :D
Sadly, not for everybody ;)
Michale:
Do you think replacing Medicare with private insurance and a voucher system is a good idea?
Michale:
Do you predict the headline deficit will go down or up once Trump is in office?
"The Carrier deal is a textbook example of the “crony capitalism” conservatives have fought against — as Sarah Palin pointed out — and part of a propaganda campaign in which Trump is attempting to demonstrate before taking office that his election has already helped American workers. Yet the response from Republican leaders, including Ryan, who for years has warned that the government should not pick winners and losers, was to celebrate the deal."
Can anybody guess the publication this quote came from :)
So this isn't about trade?
It's about EVERYTHING to do with China... They are the enemy...
Also, can you list the free trade agreements we have with China. (A: No. Of course not, because we don't have any.)
Uh... yea.. That's what I was going to say.. We don't have any... :D
Whew... Dodged that bullet! :D
Have you ever considered Trump might not understand the complex issues either
Considering that Trump has been a successful businessman for going on 40 years??
Nope.. Never considered that possibility..
And no one else considered that possibility either.. Until Trump ran as the GOP Candidate for POTUS...
And are you also telling us that you are willing to believe everything a self-confident politician tells you?
As has been WELL established by ya'all, Trump ISN'T a politician..
But to answer your question.. Yes.. I will believe everything Trump tells me until and unless I have reason not to..
I was the same way in 2008 when I voted for Obama...
Nope. Try again. Or the woman banned from the mall recently.
You mean the woman that falsely reported an attack by Trump supporters on a train???
Or the woman who falsely reported that a Trump supporter threatened to light her on fire if she didn't remove her habip??
This is a genuine request - do you hear about these things in your bubble or do you only get news of "left wing" incidents?
If it's not on CNN, FNC, DRUDGE, AlJazeera, or RCP, I don't hear about it...
Sadly, not for everybody ;)
But it CAN work, right??? :D
Do you think replacing Medicare with private insurance and a voucher system is a good idea?
Don't know enough about it to come to a conclusion... But if it's run by a Democratic Party administration, I would say it's a bad idea...
Do you predict the headline deficit will go down or up once Trump is in office?
I am not sure what you mean.. If by "headline deficit" you mean a dearth of hysterical headlines, I am sure we will see a huge increase in hysterical headlines from the MSM which is predominantly Left Wing...
If you mean an actual deficit, I would require more information...
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Has anybody read "Hillbilly Elegy" by J.D. Vance - I'm 550 in line for it with my local library, so it might be as good as it is rated.
But to answer your question.. Yes.. I will believe everything Trump tells me until and unless I have reason not to..
Do you think Trump has told the truth in everything he has said over the last 18 months?
And try to tell me with a straight face that these aren't the words of a politician:
"We're going to drain the swamp... of corruption. Funny how that term caught on, isn't it? I told... I tell everyone-- I hated it. Somebody said, "drain the swamp." I said, "Oh, that's so hokey. That is so terrible. I said, "All right, I'll try it'." So, like a month ago, I said, "drain the swamp." Place went crazy. I said, "Whoa. What's this?" Then I said it again. Then I started saying it like I meant it, right? "
Then I started saying it like I meant it, right?
Sure he isn't a politician?
If you mean an actual deficit, I would require more information...
I mean the actual deficit. Will Trump raise the deficit? i.e. will he increase spending by more than he increases revenues, or will he increase spending while keeping revenues level, or will he increase spending while decreasing revenues?
Pretty simple question to ask somebody who so vehemently believes in Trump's policies, right?
Considering that Trump has been a successful businessman for going on 40 years??
You honestly haven't heard of his bankruptcies? All the failed businesses - Trump Air, Trump Vodka?
You don't know that he settled the Trump U lawsuit out of court for $25M after vowing not to settle?
C'mon you can't be a blind fanboy. There has to be some skepticism there about Trump not being Mr Perfect?
Interesting chart tracking spending over the decades. One interpretation is that most of the wealth regular people have gained over the decades has simply fueled a housing bubble. Sure we have nicer houses today than 50 years ago, but are they that much better or are we simply taking our extra wealth and bidding against each other for plots of land?
http://www.visualcapitalist.com/75-years-how-americans-spend-their-money/
Michale:
Besides "Trump told me to think it", what are your top three reasons to single out China as the enemy?
O’Reilly warned, "The left wants power taken away from the white establishment."
You really think I made up the "gin up the white vote" comment from whole cloth Michale? We've been watching this play for 18 months.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-smartest-thing-i-heard-in-2016-1482450561
Hard to deny the logic..
Especially since it was what I was saying in the half a year run-up to the election..
There were tens of millions of Trump voters who would never admit they were Trump voters.. If asked, they would swear up and down that they were for Hillary.. But, in the privacy of the voting booth with no one but their own conscience to judge them, they pushed the button for Trump...
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Do you think Trump has told the truth in everything he has said over the last 18 months?
I don't care about the "truth" because the truth is subjective... For MANY on the Left, the "truth" is that Hillary won the election..
I deal in facts, not truth..
Has Trump been factual in everything he has said?? Of course not.. No one can make the realistic claim that they are 1000% factual in everything they say...
I take Trump seriously, but not literally...
I mean the actual deficit. Will Trump raise the deficit? i.e. will he increase spending by more than he increases revenues, or will he increase spending while keeping revenues level, or will he increase spending while decreasing revenues?
Of course, the deficit will go up... You can't make omelettes without cracking some eggs....
But the beef against Obama raising the deficit was because he was raising it so high...
So, the REAL relevant question is will Trump raise the deficit like Obama raised the deficit??
And I would have to so "NO"... Mainly because NO ONE could be that out of control with spending, eh??
You honestly haven't heard of his bankruptcies? All the failed businesses - Trump Air, Trump Vodka?
I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.
-Michael Jordan
Being successful doesn't mean doing everything right and winning all the time...
Being successful means, after you have been knocked down, you get up, dust yerself off and press on...
Donald Trump's business success in simply undeniable...
You don't know that he settled the Trump U lawsuit out of court for $25M after vowing not to settle?
Bill Clinton settled with Paula Jones for $850K after vowing not to settle..
Is settling out of court evidence of wrong-doing?? Apparently it is when the settler has a '-R' after his name.. :D
C'mon you can't be a blind fanboy. There has to be some skepticism there about Trump not being Mr Perfect?
No one claims Trump is perfect, least of all me...
I am going into this eyes wide open, knowing full well I might be burned again, as I was with Obama...
Time will tell whether Trump is another Obama or another Reagan...
Besides "Trump told me to think it", what are your top three reasons to single out China as the enemy?
Communist Government that violently subjugates it's people without due process...
Military expansionism at the expense of US allies....
I'll try and come up with a 3rd one...
But I can assure you that "Trump told me to think it" is definitely NOT on my list....
You really think I made up the "gin up the white vote" comment from whole cloth Michale? We've been watching this play for 18 months.
I don't think you "made it up"... You were told to think that by your Party..
But the fact of the matter is, 10s of millions of Americans who voted for Obama once or twice voted for Trump...
So, you are trying to convince me that Trump made 10s of millions of Americans racist....
Sorry.. That does not compute....
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Michale wrote:
"Time will tell whether Trump is another Obama or another Reagan..."
Since Reagan was the original one responsible for increasing the deficit so much, and the deficit increase under Obama was due mainly to Bush's policies and Bush's tanking of the economy that was handed to him by Clinton (Remember Bush started both the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, while at the same time pushing thru a tax cut AND an increase in medicare spending)
THAT'S not saying much!
So let's talk about breaking omelets again:
TRUMP want so make America great again by:
1) Increasing military spending
2) Giving a super big tax cut to the very wealthy
3) Pushing thru a huge infrastructure STIMULUS spending bill
ALL ARE DESIGNED to insure a HUGE EXPLOSION in DEFICIT SPENDING.
Michale wrote:
"
"Donald Trump's business success in simply undeniable..."
ACTUALLY it is VERY DENIABLE. Even given your Michael Jordan analogy, which doesn't hold water when it comes to comparing him to Trump by the way, because of THIS very reason: Being successful means that you at least WIN more times than you LOSE, NOT the other way around. TRUMP is the first man I have ever heard called successful, for LOSING MORE TIMES THAN HE HAS WON AT ANYTHING.
Michale wrote:
"So, you are trying to convince me that Trump made 10s of millions of Americans racist...."
NO< OF COURSE NOT. But just enough Americans voted for him, NOT caring that he IS a racist.
Just like just enough Germans voted HITLER into power, KNOWING he was anti-Jewish, but not caring that he was, or not believing that he was going to do what he really said he was going to do, while not being anti-Jewish themselves.
AND THAT'S ALL IT TAKES, for enough people to suspend their belief long enough to cast a vote.
Enough Americans wanted to try to kick over the apple cart, and would have voted for the devil himself if that is what it took to do so, and damn the consequences. Well, they may have very well done just that. Only time will tell.
Spock: Humans make illogical decisions.
Amanda: They do, indeed.
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
So let's talk about breaking omelets again:
TRUMP want so make America great again by:
1) Increasing military spending
2) Giving a super big tax cut to the very wealthy
3) Pushing thru a huge infrastructure STIMULUS spending bill
ALL ARE DESIGNED to insure a HUGE EXPLOSION in DEFICIT SPENDING.
When Trump's deficit spending approaches Obama's, then you'll have an argument...
Enough Americans wanted to try to kick over the apple cart, and would have voted for the devil himself if that is what it took to do so, and damn the consequences.
Exactly...
So what does that tell you about Hillary Clinton??
She was the WRONG candidate for this election...
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Being successful means that you at least WIN more times than you LOSE, NOT the other way around. TRUMP is the first man I have ever heard called successful, for LOSING MORE TIMES THAN HE HAS WON AT ANYTHING.
Trump has hundreds and hundreds of business successes under his belt...
Only a handful have failed..
Even if you dispute the Business success angle, it is simply undeniable that the man you describe, the total incompetent and complete nincompoop, could not have defeated 16 or 17 successful GOP politicians..
The man you describe simply COULD NOT have defeated the biggest, meanest, most well-funded political juggernaut in the history of the planet...
It's simply NOT in the realm of possibility...
Either Trump is the luckiest man in history, or an evil Machiavelli that NO ONE has seen and absolutely NO evidence has risen to prove, or Trump is simply not as bad as you claim...
If we employ Occam's Razor, the answer is clear...
NO< OF COURSE NOT. But just enough Americans voted for him, NOT caring that he IS a racist.
A "racist" that has NEVER uttered a racist remark that can be proven... A "racist" that has promoted people of color to management and executive positions long before it was fashionable to do so...
Again, if we employ Occam's Razor, the answer clearly is that you are simply wrong about Trump...
AND THAT'S ALL IT TAKES, for enough people to suspend their belief long enough to cast a vote.
So, tens of millions of Americans are wrong about Trump... But YOU are right??? :D
You have learned well of arrogance, my friend.. But, then again, you had a good teacher.. :D
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Spock: Humans make illogical decisions.
Amanda: They do, indeed.
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
But the "illogic" (or logic) of this decision remains to be seen... Trump really could make America great again..
We just don't know because Trump is unlike any President that has ever been elected in the history of this country...
You MIGHT be right and Trump might make this country into more of a 3rd world hell hole then it already is..
But you ALSO might be wrong and Trump totally turns things around and makes things so good for you and your family and friends that YOU end up voting Trump in 2020...
"Eventually you will have peace, but only after millions of people have died. It is true that in the future, you and the Klingons will become fast friends. You will work together. Of course, right now, your emotions are most discordant."
-Ayleborne, STAR TREK TOS, Errand Of Mercy
But kudos on the movie quote.. :D
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Swamp Draining, Trump Style:
"During the campaign, Mr. Trump repeatedly criticized Goldman Sachs for its ties to the global financial elite. But since his election, Mr. Trump has relied heavily on Goldman executives. In addition to Mr. Cohn’s appointment, Mr. Trump has picked a Goldman veteran and hedge fund manager, Steven T. Mnuchin, to be his Treasury Secretary and made another alumnus of the firm, Stephen K. Bannon, his top strategist.
And on Thursday, The Wall Street Journal reported that the highest ranking officials at Goldman, including the firm’s former president, Gary Cohn, were tracking and approving the transactions with 1MDB.
Mr. Cohn was recently appointed to be President-elect Trump’s top economic adviser and the director of the National Economic Council. Mr. Cohn could not be reached for comment.
But since Mr. Trump’s election, investors have been betting that Mr. Trump will roll back some of the legislation that has hit Goldman particularly hard.
Mr. Trump’s economic plans could also benefit the firm if interest rates rise and banks are able to charge more for loans. Goldman’s shares have shot up more sharply than the broader market and other bank stocks. Since the election, Goldman’s stock price has risen nearly 32 percent."
Sure, we believe Trump is a new type of politician that is going to change Washington. And my bridge in NYC is still for sale if anybody wants it.
There were tens of millions of Trump voters who would never admit they were Trump voters.. If asked, they would swear up and down that they were for Hillary.. But, in the privacy of the voting booth with no one but their own conscience to judge them, they pushed the button for Trump...
Does it explain why they were too embarrassed to admit to supporting Trump?
Right wing answer: Because liberals would have been nasty to them
Reality: They knew Trump was spoiled goods (e.g. the bus chat, attacking the gold star family, etc.) but just didn't care because they wanted to give the elites one in the eye and don't like multiculturalism (or identity politics as they now call it to let themselves off the racist hook).
But the beef against Obama raising the deficit was because he was raising it so high...
You do know that the bank bailouts that exploded the deficits were enacted by Bush 2? And that the auto loans were repaid with interest. What exactly did Obama do to raise the deficit?
In fact Obama flat lined government job growth (at a time when he was under pressure over the headline unemployment rate) to curb Government spending, resulting in him creating a declining deficit trend line throughout his Presidency. These are facts, I know you don't like facts because it makes you feel uncomfortable voting for Trump, who has been documented in more lies than any other since fact checking began. But facts are reality my friend. Not subject to your feelings about them.
Communist Government that violently subjugates it's people without due process...
Military expansionism at the expense of US allies....
Yet you love Russia which also subjugates its people. Do you remember the opposition leader that was shot in the back across the street from the Kremlin and Putin announced that he personally was going to lead the investigation?
And Trump told Japan and S. Korea they had to nuke up to protect themselves - so why do you care about China's saber rattling in the S. China Sea? America First! and all that.
"During the campaign, Mr. Trump repeatedly criticized Goldman Sachs for its ties to the global financial elite. But since his election, Mr. Trump has relied heavily on Goldman executives. In addition to Mr. Cohn’s appointment, Mr. Trump has picked a Goldman veteran and hedge fund manager, Steven T. Mnuchin, to be his Treasury Secretary and made another alumnus of the firm, Stephen K. Bannon, his top strategist.
I think Trump chose Mnuchin because Trump liked STORKS :D
And your beef against Bannon is because he is a GoldmanSachs alumnus??? :D Really??? THAT's the only problem with Bannon??? :D
Does it explain why they were too embarrassed to admit to supporting Trump?
Sure it does...
https://www.facebook.com/viralthread/videos/598130190359668/
Trump supporters were attacked, assaulted, vilified and denigrated by the Democratic Party candidate herself...
And you wonder WHY Trump supporters were embarrassed to admit that they were Trump supporters???
Reality: They knew Trump was spoiled goods (e.g. the bus chat, attacking the gold star family, etc.) but just didn't care because they wanted to give the elites one in the eye and don't like multiculturalism (or identity politics as they now call it to let themselves off the racist hook).
That's your reality, my friend.. :D
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JERUSALEM (AP) -- An Israeli official on Friday accused President Barack Obama of colluding with the Palestinians in a "shameful move against Israel at the U.N." after learning the White House did not intend to veto a Security Council resolution condemning settlement construction in the West Bank and east Jerusalem the day before.
"President Obama and Secretary Kerry are behind this shameful move against Israel at the U.N.," the official said. "The U.S administration secretly cooked up with the Palestinians an extreme anti-Israeli resolution behind Israel's back which would be a tail wind for terror and boycotts and effectively make the Western Wall occupied Palestinian territory," he said calling it "an abandonment of Israel which breaks decades of US policy of protecting Israel at the UN."
Earlier he said Israel's prime minister turned to President-elect Donald Trump to help head off the critical U.N. resolution.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_ISRAEL_UNITED_NATIONS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-12-23-05-06-13
The power of President Elect Trump....
Trump called Egypt's leader and soon after that call, Egypt withdrew the Anti-Israel UN Resolution...
Obama is getting majorly upstaged by Trump... :D
426
Donald Trump's business success in simply undeniable...
The only thing undeniable is the gullibility of the people who fall for Trump's stories.
He took $200M and bankrupted himself twice, but had lawyers protect his assets to he stuck it to the small businesses who he contracted to do the work and the banks who lent him the money. The banks caught on so he had to raise money from overseas, but he won't tell us who he owes money to and how much, however his son's brag that he is in big time with Russian investors. The biggest Russian investor is Putin because nobody moves large amounts of money in and out of Russia without his cronies approval.
And still Trump hides his finances and won't let anybody but his kids inside the kimono.
But you keep defending him because facts and reality are a liberal conspiracy.
Bill Clinton settled with Paula Jones for $850K after vowing not to settle..
The election is over. As you keep reminding us Trump won and the Clintons are history. Who cares about what Bill Clinton did or does.
Answer the question - why did Trump settle rather than fight in court as soon as he won the Presidency? And don't give us the old "too busy" malarkey - he has plenty of time to meet Kanye, tweet about Vanity Fair and other meaningless time wasting.
But the fact of the matter is, 10s of millions of Americans who voted for Obama once or twice voted for Trump...
You keep repeating this number even though you previously agreed that you had no basis and the facts point to 10's of thousands, or maybe a couple of 100,000 at most.
Is this a cover for Trump losing the popular vote by about 3 million?
Most of the reason Trump won, despite getting less of the vote than Romney did in 2012 (47.2% for Romney, 46.1% for Trump) was democrats not turning out for Hillary.
Oh, and FYI, Hillary got 65.8M votes in 2016, Obama won with 65.9M votes in 2012 (the population, and this the total vote grew in the intervening 4 years)
The election is over. As you keep reminding us Trump won and the Clintons are history. Who cares about what Bill Clinton did or does.
Because you are proffering the theory that when someone settles out of court, it means that they did something wrong..
I wanted to ascertain if you believe that theory is true, regardless of political affiliation..
Answer the question - why did Trump settle rather than fight in court as soon as he won the Presidency?
For the same reasons that Clinton claimed.. Because it was too costly and time consuming to fight...
Now, answer my question. Is your theory Party-based or not??
he has plenty of time to meet Kanye,
So a Republican rubbing elbows with a celebrity like Kanye is bad...
A Democrat rubbing elbows with Jay-Z and Beyonce is not bad... :D
You keep repeating this number even though you previously agreed that you had no basis and the facts point to 10's of thousands, or maybe a couple of 100,000 at most.
Actually I pointed out that I was right and offer'ed proof in the form of a map that showed the tens of millions of Americans that voted for Obama at least once and then voted for Trump in 2016... You lost interest after that so I figured it was a settled argument.. :D
Is this a cover for Trump losing the popular vote by about 3 million?
You mean Trump lost the Popular Vote in TWO states, but won the popular vote in the other 48??? :D
Do you REALLY want to push that Popular Vote BS?? :D
Most of the reason Trump won, despite getting less of the vote than Romney did in 2012 (47.2% for Romney, 46.1% for Trump) was democrats not turning out for Hillary.
And *WHY* did Democrats not turn out for Hillary?? Because she SUCKED..... She was the WRONG candidate for this election..
Something I have been saying since Christmas 2015.....
427
neil
Yeah, well the labor provisions are weak.
Workers are still being exploited... relative to our 40 hour work week, overtime laws, safety, etc... and the existing laws ARE still being violated by our trading partners... usually by well connected business owners.
If the labor provisions were stronger and enforced, we'd all be better off.
I think you're right about China... but the advances are... not uniform.
I won't buy dog treats from China... and I've been using my Swiss Army knife to open cans because every can opener in the stores I've been to was made in China.
Happy Solstice to the whole gang.
I'm outta here til New Years.
A
I wanted to ascertain if you believe that theory is true, regardless of political affiliation..
Yes. Bill Clinton had zipper problems. Trump is a con man. What is good for the goose ...
It wasn't racism....
It wasn't sexism...
It wasn't the Russians...
It wasn't James Comey.....
The reason why Democrats lost all up and down the line???
Biden rips Democrats' 'elitism,' faults party for failing to reach working class
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/12/23/biden-rips-democrats-elitism-faults-party-for-failing-to-reach-working-class.html
The Democrats lost up and down the line because they felt that transgender's bathroom rights were more important than making and saving jobs for Americans..
The Democrats lost up and down the line because the were too busy patting themselves on the back on how enlightened they were and looking down their noses at the basket of irredeemable deplorables...
THAT is why the Democrats lost up and down the line...
428
Yes. Bill Clinton had zipper problems. Trump is a con man. What is good for the goose ..
So, you believe that Bill Clinton DID sexually harass and sexually assault Paula Jones and THAT is why Bill Clinton settled...
Does that accurately sum things up??
429
So a Republican rubbing elbows with a celebrity like Kanye is bad...
A Democrat rubbing elbows with Jay-Z and Beyonce is not bad... :D
If he is under investigation and charged with fraud for being a con man, then uses time constraints as an excuse to get himself off the hook. Yes.
You are the one who brought Clinton up - you believe that Clinton was guilty because he settled, but you excuse Trump, then turn round and try to tell me I'm blinded by party loyalty?
Nice try, but fail.
Is Trump a con man as he was accused in the Trump U case that he settled out of court like Clinton was obviously banging everything in a skirt?
You are the one who brought Clinton up - you believe that Clinton was guilty because he settled, but you excuse Trump, then turn round and try to tell me I'm blinded by party loyalty?
I never said I thought Clinton was guilty because he settled.. I just used YOUR theory about Trump and applied it to a person who has a '-D' after their name and asked if your theory still applies...
Is Trump a con man as he was accused in the Trump U case that he settled out of court like Clinton was obviously banging everything in a skirt?
Nice misdirection of my argument but that's not what I said...
Do you believe Clinton sexually harassed and sexually assaulted Paula Jones and because of his guilt, Clinton settled with Paula Jones??
It's a simple question applying YOUR own theory to a analogous situation that, due to Party loyalty, you find unpalatable.....
430
It's a simple question applying YOUR own theory to a analogous situation that, due to Party loyalty, you find unpalatable.....
OK, it's not exactly analogous...
With Trump, we're talking about fraud..
With Clinton, we're talking about violent sex crimes..
So, they are not exactly analogous, but for the purposes of our discussion, they'll do....
431
It's a simple question applying YOUR own theory to a analogous situation that, due to Party loyalty, you find unpalatable.....
Allow me to amend...
It's a simple question applying YOUR own theory to a analogous situation that, due to Party loyalty, you MIGHT find unpalatable.....
My apologies...
432
Do you believe Clinton sexually harassed and sexually assaulted Paula Jones and because of his guilt, Clinton settled with Paula Jones??
I think Trump settled the Trump U case because he knew that he was guilty and bought himself a get out of jail free card. The preponderance of evidence shows that he bilked people, including a lot of vets, out of a lot of money for courses that didn't deliver what was promised, but instructors who were billed as hand picked by Trump but who he never knew.
The man is a grifter. Yes he throws a lot of shots and misses most of them, but the difference is that Jordan was legally allowed to shoot and miss, he didn't need a team of lawyers to get him off the hook when he missed a three pointer.
THAT is why the Democrats lost up and down the line...
That is what you want to believe, but you present no evidence. What evidence have you, and how does it explain the fact that Trump won in a statistical fluke since he lost the popular vote by about 3 million?
I think Trump settled the Trump U case because he knew that he was guilty and bought himself a get out of jail free card.
I respect that opinion...
I just disagree with the substance of it...
That is what you want to believe, but you present no evidence.
I presented testimony from Vice President Joe Biden...
Trump won in a statistical fluke since he lost the popular vote by about 3 million?
No... The fact that he lost the vanity vote DUE TO A SINGLE STATE...
THAT's the fluke...
That's the fact that blows your entire theory out of the water...
433
Trump didn't win by a fluke..
Trump won because the Democrats fielded a crappy candidate who thought that the political acumen of Jay-Z and Beyonce would carry the day...
"{She} chose..... poorly"
-Knight, INDIANA JONES AND THE LAST CRUSADE
434
Neil,
What is it about California that you do not understand? When it comes to the popular vote count, I mean ...
Neil,
Trump is many things, including the next legitimately elected POTUS.
President Obama just stabbed Israel in the back...
They allowed a UN Resolution to condemn Israel to pass....
Even DEMOCRATS urged Obama to veto this anti-Israel resolution...
Obama is coming down firmly on the side of terrorists and terrorism....
435
President Obama made the right decision on Israeli settlements, which every Democratic and Republican president for decades has acknowledged as being illegal.
It was time for a change of course. Time to do things a little differently.
I'm surprised Trump didn't agree with doing things differently on this issue as does so on every other issue.
Trump is no match for Netanyahu, I'm afraid to say. Afraid for the well-being of the state of Israel, I mean.
Here is the full text of the UN resolution condemning Israeli settlements ...
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/12/23/world/middleeast/UN-Security-Council-Resolution-Israel-full-text.html
President Obama made the right decision on Israeli settlements, which every Democratic and Republican president for decades has acknowledged as being illegal.
What is wrong about the Israeli settlements??
To oppose the Israeli settlements is to support the notion that every American should give back property they own to Native Americans...
The Palestinians fought a war with Israel and they lost..
By instigating a conflict with Israel and by continuing that conflict thru terrorism, Palestinians gave up ALL moral authority to claim any land in the region...
Palestinians lost the war... They are a conquered people... To the victor, go the spoils...
It's really that simple...
It was time for a change of course. Time to do things a little differently.
Obama decided to do things differently.. After decades of protecting Israel from the Anti-Semiticism of the United Nations, Obama decided to back stab Israel and throw her to the wolves...
THAT is certainly different...
436
You have a lot to learn about the Middle East Peace Process, Michale, and about the history of Israel and the Palestinian territory, and about the dire consequences for the democratic Jewish state if settlements continue.
You have a lot to learn about the Middle East Peace Process, Michale, and about the history of Israel and the Palestinian territory, and about the dire consequences for the democratic Jewish state if settlements continue.
Doubtful..
I have been to the region and have worked with the IDF and their SO units...
Israel fought a war against insurmountable odds and won.. That is the only history that is relevant...
The mere fact that Palestinians support terrorism against Israel is just another nail in the coffin that is Palestinian "authority"...
By their actions, past and present, Palestinians have relinquished all moral, legal and ethical claims to the land...
The land belongs to Israel. Israelis have fought and bled for that land and Palestinians have no more claim to that land than Seminoles have claim to my land...
It's that simple and any attempt to obfuscate that simplicity is pointless because it just ain't so...
437
As to the myth that Hillary lost because Democrats stayed home...
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/23/upshot/how-the-obama-coalition-crumbled-leaving-an-opening-for-trump.html?_r=0
Democrats didn't stay home..
They voted for Trump by the tens of millions...
438
What is it about California that you do not understand? When it comes to the popular vote count, I mean ...
That people in California are Americans and their votes count the same as everybody else's?
No, you still don't get it.
Trump is many things, including the next legitimately elected POTUS.
Thanks for the clarification.
No, you still don't get it.
Please bless me with your wisdom.
There is an old saying in Europe: America is 10 years ahead of us, and California is 10 years ahead of America.
I already have made those comments.
You are right about California being far ahead of America.
I already have made those comments.
Work with me here - a link to the comment please.
Focusing on the economic failures of Clinton and Obama doesn't make sense when Reagan and Bush 2 collapsed the working and middle class with trickle down. It is like replacing the quarterback in the second half because he missed a pass when your team is 20 points up.
You are confusing two different issues here, Neil. Democrats will probable lose the next general if they continue to be confused about this, too.
And, Hillary only won the popular vote because of her landslide win in one state, namely California.
Neil,
Focusing on the economic failures of Clinton and Obama doesn't make sense when Reagan and Bush 2 collapsed the working and middle class with trickle down. It is like replacing the quarterback in the second half because he missed a pass when your team is 20 points up.
You are confusing two different issues here, Neil. Democrats will probable lose the next general if they continue to be confused about this, too.
And, Hillary only won the popular vote because of her landslide win in one state, namely California.
They voted for Trump by the tens of millions...
If you want to keep this math going then either:
1. tens of millions of Republicans voted for Hillary, or
2. tens of millions of Democrats voted for Trump and 10 of millions new voters voted for Hillary and tens of millions of Republican voters stayed at home
3. You're delusional and have no numbers to back up the "tens of millions" fantasy
You are confusing two different issues here, Neil. Democrats will probable lose the next general if they continue to be confused about this, too.
I think you are forgetting the intransigence of the House and Senate that blocked just about everything Obama wanted to do.
I'm not going to participate in the "stupid democrats don't understand the troubles of real Americans" self flagellation that is the plate du jour. The Republicans have spent 20 years playing out the "Washington is the source of all evil" storyline and it disappoints me that so many Americans and even so many Democrats have fallen for it.
And, Hillary only won the popular vote because of her landslide win in one state, namely California.
And California is a state in which great nation?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/obama-trump-counties/
If you want to be a bean counter and dispute the hyperbole, be my guest..
But it still won't change the fact that Trump won with the BIG help of former Obama voters..
You can dispute the exact number all you want.. But yer just arguing a periphery point in an attempt to hide the fact that you can't counter the main point..
Obama voters turned into Trump voters..
Which totally decimates your argument that Trump voters are all racists...
439
http://www.cnbc.com/heres-a-map-of-the-us-counties-that-flipped-to-trump-from-democrats/
There's an even better map....
It was Obama voters that put Trump over the top....
Which totally decimates your argument that Trump voters are all racists...
When did I say all Trump supporters are racists?
There's an even better map....
It was Obama voters that put Trump over the top....
And yet the last time I checked all the counties in the whole country get a total of zero votes.
When it comes to voters however Trump lost in a landslide. That is really stuck in Trump throat and it delegitimizes him in the eyes of many, obviously including himself which is why he keeps lying about winning the popular vote:
@realDonaldTrump:
In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally
12:30 PM - 27 Nov 2016
Sum total of illegal votes found to date: under 10
That reality thing, it just keeps biting him in the ass. Must be painful for Trump to sit down :)
I defy you to find any evidence of 3 million (convenient number isn't it) illegal votes. The primary sources are two tweets from some random guy who just happens to be a Trump supporter and has no facts to base his claim on, a claim he made 5 days after the election - sort of suspiciously fast for such a massive investigation, don't you think?
Don't be like Trump, don't believe everything that makes you feel good in the press and online. It doesn't enhance your reputation for veracity.
If we want to play the demographics game, remember the well educated preferences:
https://usatcollege.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/education.png
What do you think it is about well developed critical thinking skills that pushed so many post grads away from Trump? Could it be the ability to fact check then spot when somebody is telling you what you want to hear?
Trump: Then I started saying it like I meant it, right?
That is what we call a "tell".
OK, #4 Son agreed to go with me to Rogue One this morning (10:45 AM show - packed!).
Outstanding. Great story line. Really held it together.
Speaking of ROGUE ONE....
Our thoughts and prayers are with Princess Leia (Carrie Fisher) who suffered a heart attack today aboard an LA bound aircraft....
May the Force be with her....
Not all Trump supporters are racist, however I'd hazard a guess that Trump will have a tough time explaining why his co-chair in New York isn't:
“I’d like her to return to being a male and let loose in the outback of Zimbabwe where she lives comfortably in a cave with Maxie, the gorilla,” he said.
Guess who he was talking about.
Yup, Michelle.
http://artvoice.com/2016/12/23/want-2017-lot-different-opinions/#.WF3CnqIrI1j
Lovely chap.
Speaking of ROGUE ONE....
Our thoughts and prayers are with Princess Leia (Carrie Fisher) who suffered a heart attack today aboard an LA bound aircraft....
May the Force be with her....
MTFBWH. Pull thru Carrie!
And California is a state in which great nation?...I think you are forgetting the intransigence of the House and Senate that blocked just about everything Obama wanted to do.
Two ships passing in the night ... end of conversation.
Two ships passing in the night ... end of conversation.
If you can't clearly articulate your point of view to a receptive audience, do you really think you can swing a nation.
Lay out the three key points you want to make to the American people.
Here are my three:
1. America has got 2.5 times richer in the last 40 years but most Americans didn't get anything. We should reward entrepreneurs, but the wealth needs to be distributed so we need to stop trusting trickle down and trust progressive taxation.
2. The rich have bought many of our politicians, and we need to take the time to understand who we can really trust. This means we need to stop falling for fake issues and fake news.
3. Almost every American believes in the American Dream - let's make it happen again. Everybody should have the chance to get a great eduction to the tertiary level. That is what smart societies do, just like we did time and time again when we led the world with the best educated workforce in the world.
My God, Trump is Putin's patsy. This is embarrassing.
Read this. Think about why. Stop self-flagellating for Pete's sake. The Democrats are the party who cares, most people who want more caring are Democrats.
http://www.people-press.org/2016/12/20/in-elections-wake-partisans-assess-the-state-of-their-parties/overview_groups-2/
If you can't clearly articulate your point of view to a receptive audience, do you really think you can swing a nation.
Lay out the three key points you want to make to the American people.
Too bad Hillary couldn't do that. Was it really that difficult?
I blame her and her alone for President-elect Trump. And, I will never, ever forgive her for it! Seriously!
Neil,
If you want to know how to appeal to the middle class and articulate a point of view that is infinitely receptive AND can swing a nation, pay close attention to Senator Biden over the course of the next couple or three years ...
It is no coincidence that the biggest Hillary supporters are no longer commenting around here.
Hint: It's not because they are busy ... what's your word for it ... self-flagellating? No, they are slowly coming to terms with the fact that, how can I put this delicately, America was screwed over by the Clintons, again, to paraphrase a wise political analyst who also happens to be a Californian.
I blame her and her alone for President-elect Trump. And, I will never, ever forgive her for it! Seriously!
Wow. Just wow.
How sad.
If you want to know how to appeal to the middle class and articulate a point of view that is infinitely receptive AND can swing a nation, pay close attention to Senator Biden over the course of the next couple or three years ...
Vice President Biden is 74. You really want to put this one him - the hope of the nation.
Time to look forward, not backwards. Joe Biden is he lighthouse not the ship.
You don't know Joe Biden very well, Neil.
But, then again, you don't seem to know who the Clintons are, either.
And, no, I don't think they are evil incarnate or anywhere approaching that.
I just think that they are, in the final analysis, a couple of pretty inept politicians with an entitlement complex.
Neither one of them did anything to improve their legacies during the course of the 2016 presidential election campaign. And, America and the rest of the civilized world will be paying a high price for their ineptitude for a very, very long time.
Is this direct enough. From a Californian Republican for Pete's sake.
Catch up America. California is the future:
http://viralcrunch.com/articles/18357/arnold-schwarzenegger-lets-loose-on-facebook-doesnt-give-a-if-you-dont-believe-in-climate-change
Neither one of them did anything to improve their legacies during the course of the 2016 presidential election campaign. And, America and the rest of the civilized world will be paying a high price for their ineptitude for a very, very long time.
This election was a reality show. You want to blame Hillary for not being the best reality show star, go ahead. I was interested in ideas and plans, not how she should have responded better to a clown. Maybe if more of the country had been concerned about real issues I wouldn't have to be the one defending a good, competent person who really cared about the future of America from bitter losers.
And, in Michale's case, bitter winners. For Pete's sake cheer up Michale. Get over the chip on your shoulder to the other side and start to sell us on the future. Tell us why Trump's policies and vision are the way forward and stop the cult of personality.
I've asked you innumerable times what you think Trump is going to do, and beyond reclassifying one particular offense as a hate crime punishable by death, we've heard crickets.
You don't know Joe Biden very well, Neil.
I know Joe Biden will be 78 at the next inauguration. I love Joe and he is definitely a beacon in the progressive movement, but we need to invest in the future, not place unfair burdens on the shoulders of the past.
Time to look forward, not backwards. Joe Biden is he lighthouse not the ship.
To be clear, here is what you don't know about Biden ... he is one America's precious few "up-wing" leaders ... leaders who think big with a futuristic orientation and who advocate for enlightened policies and who have a progressive vision for change and the requisite courage to carry it out, against all odds.
Don't you know that age is a state of mind, Neil?
I love that abut Joe. Now who is he grooming to take over? Who do you support that Joe trusts to take over his mantle. Who is going to give Joe the legacy he deserves?
Are you asking this of Joe?
This is a serious question, who, and it might be more than one person, will be our next Joe Biden?
You want to blame Hillary for not being the best reality show star, go ahead. I was interested in ideas and plans, not how she should have responded better to a clown.
I'm not sure what campaign you were following, Neil, but all she did was respond to Trump. She decided to go negative at the expense of any semblance of an uplifting message.
That's what makes all of this so frustrating. She could have charted another course but she chose not to. She and her campaign made some devastatingly unsound choices and we are all paying for them.
My money was on Beau Biden.
You must have someone in mind, Neil. Do enlighten me ...
Joe isn't ready to give up his mantle, in case you haven't noticed. :)
Don't you know that age is a state of mind, Neil?
I lost my favorite Uncle five years ago. You may even have heard of him as he was a famous Canadian: Jimmy Barclay. Uncle Jimmy was the lead engineer on the Alaskan pipeline in the 1970's and retired and focused on his true passion - golf. He was renown as the best historian of Canadian golf of all time with a magnificent ouvre treasured by golf historians.
I used to visit Uncle Jimmy every time I went to Toronto on business, usually a couple of times a year. He had a razor sharp mind that challenged me on every subject, and if I was ever more knowledgeable about a subject, the next time I saw him he ran rings around me. Right into his 80's. I miss Uncle Jimmy every day, and so I know age is both a state of mind and a physical reality.
http://www.rcga.org/hall_of_famer.aspx?id=68&x=P1c4tTuOqenBqMIDKw0FSsAfqUB8m%2b2JbpsL8%2bFeHIGIqSx%2bFYSnOhNzctOvbMx956vLssOzddP0GFPq7k6SnTIOzuePbXJPPLyV9zXVKUV22mevOuVM%2bBjXWu7NU9X1%2fCvMhzUtdLDUcBqaVvkBiUvYfJLI60LJK9PnLu3CG3dkZKRDajCwJrqHvO4C8NEgwv2XhdJk6QQ%3d
Don't you know that age is a state of mind, Neil?
I lost my favorite Uncle five years ago. You may even have heard of him as he was a famous Canadian: Jimmy Barclay. Uncle Jimmy was the lead engineer on the Alaskan pipeline in the 1970's and retired and focused on his true passion - golf. He was renown as the best historian of Canadian golf of all time with a magnificent ouvre treasured by golf historians.
I used to visit Uncle Jimmy every time I went to Toronto on business, usually a couple of times a year. He had a razor sharp mind that challenged me on every subject, and if I was ever more knowledgeable about a subject, the next time I saw him he ran rings around me. Right into his 80's. I miss Uncle Jimmy every day, and so I know age is both a state of mind and a physical reality.
Look up James Barclay in the Canadian Golf Hall of Fame. The nannybot is blocking the link I want to post.
Do you know Jerry Brown?
I'll check it out later, Neil ... I'm done for the night.
You must have someone in mind, Neil. Do enlighten me ...
The most courageous left wing leader I see today is Gavin Newsom. He has zipper problems, but let's hope those are in the past. He was way out in front on gay marriage. He spits in the face of the gun lobby - demanding that they debate him. He will very likely be the next Governor of California.
Other stars that I know less about for geographical reasons are the Castro twins and Cory Brooker.
Here are some other rising stars, maybe you can email Joe and ask him who he likes:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/06/24/opinion/sunday/14-young-democrats-to-watch.html
Goodnight Elizabeth. Thanks.
And California is a state in which great nation?...I think you are forgetting the intransigence of the House and Senate that blocked just about everything Obama wanted to do.
Yes.. Just ONE state...
But you seem to be OK with just ONE state deciding who is President.. And to hell with what the other 49 states say...
Of course, only if that ONE state selects YOUR candidate as POTUS..
So, would you be OK if TEXAS was the SOLE arbiter of who is President?? :D
Not all Trump supporters are racist, however I'd hazard a guess that Trump will have a tough time explaining why his co-chair in New York isn't:
“I’d like her to return to being a male and let loose in the outback of Zimbabwe where she lives comfortably in a cave with Maxie, the gorilla,” he said.
Guess who he was talking about.
Yup, Michelle.
http://artvoice.com/2016/12/23/want-2017-lot-different-opinions/#.WF3CnqIrI1j
Lovely chap.
An asshole...
But, once again, I am constrained to point out that, if we are branding candidates with the actions of their supporters....
Well, you and Hillary have a lot of 'splainin' to do...
And, in Michale's case, bitter winners. For Pete's sake cheer up Michale.
Bitter?? Shirley, you jest! :D
Tell us why Trump's policies and vision are the way forward and stop the cult of personality.
What's the point??
You have already determined that Trump is a failure, even though he has done some great things already, even before he takes office...
I can't wait for that day, in November of 2020 when you admit that you voted for Donald Trump for another 4 years... :D
The Democrats are the party who cares, most people who want more caring are Democrats.
As Hillary so aptly proved beyond ANY doubt..... Democrats only care about people that care about Democrats..
Everyone else is nothing but a basket of irredeemable deplorables...
443
You have already determined that Trump is a failure, even though he has done some great things already, even before he takes office...
For example, supporting Israel as President Obama stabbed Israel in the back and threw her under the bus...
That is the most heinous and vindictive act against one of our staunchest allies by an outgoing administration that I have ever had the displeasure of witnessing..
Any acknowledgment of merit of the Obama administration from the civilized world has been irrevocably rebutted by the administration's cold and vindictive actions...
444
But you seem to be OK with just ONE state deciding who is President.. And to hell with what the other 49 states say...
A slight redistribution of 50,000 voters and the story would have been "Is California a Harbinger of the Future of the Republican Party?"
Let's keep everything in perspective here. Trump won by a statistical fluke, his cross-over appeal happened in just the right area to squeak a win for him. Everybody then went into extreme mode - Michale sounds like the whole world order has changed, and the Democrats think the apocalypse is here and Hillary bears the mark of the beast.
But the sliver of Obama voters that Trump managed to con have already been forgotten by Trump. There are no more "Carrier" moments, Trumps loose thumbs have only sharpened the trade weapons the Chinese are getting ready to target the Trump supporters specifically (targeting red states and soy bean farmers - they learned the lesson that Mexico taught America - Oregon's Christmas Trees being the symbolic sanctions target that time around). Trump's labor secretary is an advocate for robots, and the unraveling of Obamacare will hit the poorest (including those "Trump Democrats") hardest. And tax cuts don't help much if you don't pay much or any taxes.
FYI: The Berkeley Journal of International Law published an interesting paper on the Mexican sanctions:
http://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1383&context=bjil
Let's keep everything in perspective here. Trump won by a statistical fluke, his cross-over appeal happened in just the right area to squeak a win for him. Everybody then went into extreme mode - Michale sounds like the whole world order has changed, and the Democrats think the apocalypse is here and Hillary bears the mark of the beast.
Let's see..
BREXIT
TRUMP
MERKEL is on her way out...
Yea, the whole world HAS changed.... :D
FYI: The Berkeley Journal of International Law published an interesting paper on the Mexican sanctions:
http://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1383&context=bjil
Berkley.... 'nuff said... :D
446
Neil,
This one is especially for you ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57Uy9jPxxwI
I have something else for you, Neil ... check back here after Christmas ...
Not all Trump supporters are racist, however I'd hazard a guess that Trump will have a tough time explaining why his co-chair in New York isn't:
“I’d like her to return to being a male and let loose in the outback of Zimbabwe where she lives comfortably in a cave with Maxie, the gorilla,” he said.
Guess who he was talking about.
Yup, Michelle.
http://artvoice.com/2016/12/23/want-2017-lot-different-opinions/#.WF3CnqIrI1j
Lovely chap.
As reprehensible as Hillary's claim that 10s of millions of Americans are racist irredeemable basket of deplorables...
The Right does not have a lock on despicable and reprehensible comments, don'tcha know...
447
Michale wrote:
"The power of President Elect Trump....
Trump called Egypt's leader and soon after that call, Egypt withdrew the Anti-Israel UN Resolution..."
AND YET, right after that, that VERY SAME resolution came back, this time sponsored by New Zealand, Malaysia, Venezuela and Senegal, in an "in your face" defiance of Trump.
So, tell me again how good it was that Trump traded one country by pissing off four more other different additional nations instead?
Michale wrote:
"You mean Trump lost the Popular Vote in TWO states, but won the popular vote in the other 48??? :D"
ACTUALLY, Trump lost the popular vote in NINETEEN, 19, states and the District of Columbia, otherwise Clinton would never have been awarded those states electoral votes.
AND YET, right after that, that VERY SAME resolution came back, this time sponsored by New Zealand, Malaysia, Venezuela and Senegal, in an "in your face" defiance of Trump.
So, tell me again how good it was that Trump traded one country by pissing off four more other different additional nations instead?
Because it showed that Trump will support our allies, unlike the current administration who stabs our allies in the back...
ACTUALLY, Trump lost the popular vote in NINETEEN, 19, states and the District of Columbia, otherwise Clinton would never have been awarded those states electoral votes.
Yea, I dropped the ball on that one... But even still, 31 states wanted Trump... Only 19 wanted Hillary...
Now THAT's a mandate that is Constitutional Amendment territory...
I won't even bother mentioning how bad the Democrats got shellacked in State Governments...
No matter how ya want to spin it, the Democratic Party is in a world of hurt...
448
John.
When we speak of the popular vote and why Hillary won it, overall ... it is a matter of numbers - in one state, in particular - that gave her such a winning margin in the popular vote.
And, remember, the only reason we're even talking about this is because so many Democrats are unable to process what actually happened in this election cycle.
Stay tuned ... I have a pertinent link coming in a couple or three days ...
... I have to digest it first, myself ... :)
Some numbers to give Democrats pause..
Democrats have lost 1030 seats in various federal and state areas...
Democrats hold complete dominance (Both Houses and Governor) in only 5 states... Republicans hold complete dominance in 31 states...
Republicans squeeked by with no mandate???
Shirley... You jest.....