Newspaper War!
To really be true to today's subject, I should have come up with a headline more along the lines of: "Donald Trump Takes America Back To 1890s!" That's a tad sensationalistic, but we do seem to be right in the middle of a good old-fashioned newspaper war. In the past month alone, I have lost count of the times that major scoops about the extent of the Trump administration's misdeeds have appeared in both the New York Times and the Washington Post. Even without counting them, the score seems pretty close to tied, although the Post may have a slight edge at the current moment.
I cannot say with any accuracy how many of the bombshell leaks the Post and the Times have offered up in the past few weeks are the result of dogged professional journalistic efforts, or just of reporters doing no more than sitting around waiting for the phone to ring, as yet another White House staffer voluntarily dials in to dish the dirt. All presidents strive to stop such leaks (see: Richard Nixon, "The Plumbers," for just one historic example), but Trump seems even more obsessed than most -- so far, with little to show for it. The trickle of leaks has become a raging flooded river, and to date not a single leaker has been caught by Trump. Nobody's been fired because they leaked, and the leaks just keep right on happening, at what seems to be an ever-increasing pace.
The Trump White House has now reached the point where we need a new superlative simile to describe it. After all, there are plenty of ways to finish "crazy as a..." or "drunk as a...", but I know of few metaphorical comparisons which adequately describe the concept of "leakiest." Leaky as a busted sieve? Leaky as an old garden hose? Leaky as your husband's plumbing repair? I did find one Rudyard Kipling citation -- "leaky as a lobster pot" -- but this may not be immediately understood beyond the shores of Maine. At this point in the Trump administration, though, we all seem to be in need of such a superlative "leakiest" simile.
Putting aside the unanswerable question of how much credit to give the journalists (versus them just enjoying the fruits of the leakiest White House in the modern era), the Times and the Post are now locked in a race to see which one can come up with the scoop of the day. In normal times, these scoops would be unveiled each morning in the print edition, but the times are anything but normal. Now we get what one Post commenter described as "the 4:45 P.M. leak of the day," as late-breaking stories continue to cause consternation for the writers of late-night comedy (who have to be extraordinarily limber to get the late-breaking stuff into the nightly monologues).
Such healthy competition should be celebrated, however. Print journalism is in the midst of a multi-decade decline, and a good old-fashioned newspaper war might be just what the industry needs to revitalize itself in the Trump Era. Will the Post scoop the Times today, or will it be the other way around? Which one can get the juiciest details from disloyal Trump administration players? It not only sells newspapers, it puts a spotlight on print journalism in general. Call me biased, but that seems like a pretty good outcome to me.
The original newspaper war (or at least one of the most intense in all of American history, as there have been literally dozens if not hundreds of other examples) was waged between William Randolph Hearst and Joseph Pulitzer, during the last half of the 1890s. Sensationalism and gritty crime stories sold more papers, so they gave the public what they wanted. Sunday color comic supplements were wildly popular, and one of these (mostly long-forgotten) lent its name to describe the era. "The school of Yellow Kid journalism" was eventually shortened to just "yellow journalism," which is how we remember it today.
The excesses of the era are legendary, both in the metaphorical and literal sense of the term. The most famous story that probably never actually happened was that artist Frederic Remington sent a telegram to Hearst from Cuba that all was quiet, no war was imminent, and he should return home. Hearst allegedly sent back: "Please remain. You furnish the pictures and I'll furnish the war." Historians now doubt this story is true, and doubt how much the naked war-mongering in the New York papers had to do with provoking the Spanish-American War. But that the story was once believed says something about the era all by itself.
The term "yellow journalism" isn't used much anymore. These days, it has morphed into "fake news" -- a term which has quickly expanded far beyond its original definition. Fake news was, as of last year, a description of one part of the Russian involvement in the American election. Totally bogus news stories, made up on the spot, were disseminated on the internet as if they were actual news stories. But Donald Trump and his supporters have now redefined the term (at least, among themselves), to mean either: "biased liberal news with unnamed sources," or merely: "news stories that Donald Trump doesn't like." The latter definition is pretty subjective to one man's viewpoint, but the former definition is pretty laughable on its face.
Partisans from both sides of the political divide love to decry anonymous sources, when their team is the subject of such leaks. These strict standards fall by the wayside when the target plays for the other team, however. Democrats and Republicans are both guilty of this flaw, although (obviously) at different times and for different stories. So no matter what foot the shoe is on, the fake incredibly-high standards and pretended outrage stays the same.
Currently, Democrats are coughing on the billowing clouds of smoke and pointing to the flames while yelling: "Fire! Fire!" The Republicans, meanwhile, are insisting that it's just one guy sneaking a cigarette, 'round the back of the building. There is no other smoke, the GOP insists, and those enormous clouds are probably just low-lying fog. Time will tell which side is correct, as always.
None of this detracts from the enjoyment of watching this particular newspaper war, at least from where I sit. Sure, I have my own biases, but the process itself should be inherently fascinating to any avid consumer of news. The race is on for this year's Pulitzer Prize, and the Post and the Times are both running hard for it.
The nature of the scandal certainly lends itself to this newspaper rivalry. It is, as John McCain puts it, "a centipede -- because there are so many shoes left to drop." Leakers are falling all over themselves to get their insider stories to the press. It's a wonder they don't get rolled right over to voicemail, since there are so many daily leaks afoot.
The fascinating thing is how many of them are happening in just two newspapers, though. None of these leaks (at least not the major ones) have happened on cable news, in other words. There's likely a good reason for this, and that is -- stunningly -- that White House staffers are using the newspapers to communicate with the president. This is a major reason why there are so many leaks, since there are so many competing factions within Trump's White House. Everybody's undercutting everybody else all the time, and the preferred method is to leak to a newspaper that the staffers know that Trump regularly reads. This line of White House communication is downright bizarre, but then I did say that we're not exactly in normal times.
I have no idea who will emerge the winner in this particular newspaper war. Who will chalk up the most jaw-dropping scoops, when all is said and done? Of course, the Washington Post has to be seen as the reigning champion in this contest, as they've already got one presidential scalp on their wall (again, see: Richard Nixon). They're the only newspaper in all of American history to be directly responsible for the removal of a president, after all. Will the end of the current road either be a repeat victory for the Post, or will the New York Times finally even the score? Either way, this continuing war is going to sell a lot of newspapers. And since the pace has been set at roughly one major scoop per day, this will continue for the foreseeable future. So sit back, put your feet up, and read all about it!
-- Chris Weigant
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
The uptick of genuine investigative reporting by the Times, W. Post, and other news organizations IS encouraging. And the actual competition between the nation's top 2 papers may lead to some serious scoops. Let us hope!
the preferred method is to leak to a newspaper that the staffers know that Trump regularly reads
Trump regularly reads a newspaper? That's news, itself, to me. I'd been led to believe that, while an avid fan of cable news (particularly Fox), that he wasn't much of a reader. Then again, as we've been reminded by WH staffers recently, articles with his name in them DO tend to get his attention...
Balthasar -
Maybe "skims" is a better word. But he does pay attention to the NYT, because being from the city, he considers it to be the "big time" of news. I'd wager he reads some headlines, and skims the stories where his name's in the headline, personally...
-CW
I cannot say with any accuracy how many of the bombshell leaks the Post and the Times have offered up in the past few weeks are the result of dogged professional journalistic efforts, or just of reporters doing no more than sitting around waiting for the phone to ring, as yet another White House staffer voluntarily dials in to dish the dirt. All presidents strive to stop such leaks (see: Richard Nixon, "The Plumbers," for just one historic example), but Trump seems even more obsessed than most -- so far, with little to show for it. The trickle of leaks has become a raging flooded river, and to date not a single leaker has been caught by Trump. Nobody's been fired because they leaked, and the leaks just keep right on happening, at what seems to be an ever-increasing pace.
Yes, this is all factual..
And it's very interesting too...
Don't you wonder why ALL these leaks are coming out and they ALL seem to be progressively hysterically worse??
Putting aside the unanswerable question of how much credit to give the journalists (versus them just enjoying the fruits of the leakiest White House in the modern era), the Times and the Post are now locked in a race to see which one can come up with the scoop of the day.
No, the Leftist MSM are now locked in a race to see who can come up with the most OUTLANDISH scoop of the day..
And what is REALLY sad is that NONE of ya'all (that DOES included you, CW ) are demanding *ANY* kind of facts or proof to support these outlandish claims..
Hot Lips says it's great that WaPoop and NY GRIME is doing "investigative journalism" again..
WHAT "journalism"?? They are just being whores and feeding the public a line of unproven bullshit from "anonymous sources"..
Ya'all, as in ALL of you, USED to be more discriminating in ya'all's acceptance of "anonymous sources".. But that was back when the POTUS had a '-D' after his name...
Currently, Democrats are coughing on the billowing clouds of smoke and pointing to the flames while yelling: "Fire! Fire!"
Where is this imaginary fire?? Do you have ANY REAL and TANGIBLE facts to prove that a fire exists..
No you do not..
The race is on for this year's Pulitzer Prize, and the Post and the Times are both running hard for it.
EXACTLY..
And what's best for the country be damned.. I am glad that is finally out in the open and conceded...
Nope.. Didn't see anything that I thought was influenced by me.. :D
Nope.. Didn't see anything that I thought was influenced by me.. :D
Oops wait...
Partisans from both sides of the political divide love to decry anonymous sources, when their team is the subject of such leaks. These strict standards fall by the wayside when the target plays for the other team, however. Democrats and Republicans are both guilty of this flaw, although (obviously) at different times and for different stories. So no matter what foot the shoe is on, the fake incredibly-high standards and pretended outrage stays the same.
That sounds logical and rational so I would have to assume that it was influenced by your's truly.. :D
You are correct.. Both sides do it..
But this time it is so much worse.. Ya'all are accepting of EVERYTHING that comes out, no matter how hysterical and ridiculous it is...
At least back when ridiculous accusations were made about Odumbo, *I* ridiculed those right along with ya'all...
Ya'all's hysterical anti-Trump zealotry ignores the three basic and inarguable facts about President Trump..
1. He is a very successful business man..
2. He bested 19 very well-funded, very qualified and very experienced GOP candidates..
3. He totally and COMPLETELY devastated the biggest, meanest and most well funded political juggernaut in the history of the planet..
Until ya'all can successfully refute ALL three of these *FACTS*, ya'all simply have no factual leg to stand on when it comes to ya'all's anti-Trump hysteria...
NONE.. ZERO.... ZILCH..... NADA.....
"These are the facts of the case. And they are undisputed."
-Captain Smilin' Jack Ross, A FEW GOOD MEN
Speaking of facts..
Obama intel agency secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years
http://circa.com/politics/barack-obamas-team-secretly-disclosed-years-of-illegal-nsa-searches-spying-on-americans
Anyone here care??
Of course not.. Ya'all are too busy with yer hysterical fact-less anti-Trump crusade to be bothered with REAL abuses committed by Odumbo..
He is a Democrat after all, so he gets a pass....
Once upon a time, ya'all claimed that personal privacy is sacrosanct...
What a difference a '-D' makes, eh??
Sad.....
I mean, seriously...
First Lady doesn't hold the President's hand and THAT is worthy of condemnation???
Granted, it was rightly condemned as ridiculous by a *SINGLE* Weigantian...
But, com'on!
Such a moronic and boneheaded statement should have been resoundingly condemned by EVERYONE..
You people (NEN) really need to up ya'all's game, lose the mind-shattering hysteria and at least TRY to show a little class...
I'm just sayin'...
And of course, no one mentions that the people making these leaks are committing a federal crime...
But illegal activities, apparently, only bother ya'all when the Democrat Party suffers for it..
When Trump suffers, felonies don't bother ya'all at all..
Funny how that is, eh? :^/
Trump delivers his alternate universe Gettysburg Address, Nov 19, 1863:
It is a great honor to be here with all of my friends – so amazing & will never forget!
I see. The NYT and WP are Post It Notes
I cannot say with any accuracy how many of the bombshell leaks the Post and the Times have offered up in the past few weeks are the result of dogged professional journalistic efforts, or just of reporters doing no more than sitting around waiting for the phone to ring, as yet another White House staffer voluntarily dials in to dish the dirt. All presidents strive to stop such leaks (see: Richard Nixon, "The Plumbers," for just one historic example), but Trump seems even more obsessed than most -- so far, with little to show for it. The trickle of leaks has become a raging flooded river, and to date not a single leaker has been caught by Trump. Nobody's been fired because they leaked, and the leaks just keep right on happening, at what seems to be an ever-increasing pace.
This all reminds me of that M*A*S*H episode where Hawkeye and BJ had a contest on who could play the best practical joke..
Hawkeye got totally and completely played...
The entirety of the Left Wingery reminds me of Hawkeye... :D
I mean, honestly..
For those of you who CAN think clearly, logically and rationally... I know there are a few of you here who still can.... Ya got to admit the facts..
The deranged hysteria surrounding ya'all's (MEM) President Trump hatred is miles and miles above what was experienced during the Obama years..
Take Balthazar's claim that NATO delegates were asked to limit their speeches because of President Trump's low attention span..
He provides NO FACTS to support it and ya'all gobble it up like the gospel truth...
That's how ya'all (NEN) roll these days..
And that's just sad....
@ts [9],
agree, the way donald signed the book of remembrance at yad vashem was incredibly tone-deaf. "never forget" is supposed to be a solemn oath, not a follow-up to "so amazing."
JL
ny22-14
It's not Six Flags. I've seen more moving postcards from Six Flags.
Does Trump even have a working soul? I think we may be dealing with a member of the undead demographic. Walter Reed Hospital needs to conduct a routine soul workup. Take a soul smear... Put a mirror under his nose...Check to see if Trump leaves a reflection in the mirror. They can post the lab report on WP or NYT.
barack h. obama:
"I am grateful to Yad Vashem and all of those responsible for this remarkable institution. At a time of great peril and promise, war and strife, we are blessed to have such a powerful reminder of man's potential for great evil, but also our capacity to rise up from tragedy and remake our world. Let our children come here, and know this history, so that they can add their voices to proclaim 'never again.' And may we remember those who perished, not only as victims, but also as individuals who hoped and loved and dreamed like us, and who have become symbols of the human spirit."
george w. bush:
"God bless Israel"
donald j. trump:
"It is a great honor to be here with all of my friends — so amazing and will NEVER FORGET!"
obama was eloquent. bush was brief. trump was tone-deaf.
Seriously, the guestbook drivel completely undercut the professionally written formal speech that Trump read (rather badly). Another case of Trump shooting his own administration in the foot. Clear signs of political gangrene.
CW-
What's up with the National Enguirer turning on Trump that I see on my trips down the grocery check out lane? They are slamming the guy! Granted it's about sex, not politics, but I would not have not expected it in a million years. Epic battle of the litigants!
obama was eloquent. bush was brief. trump was tone-deaf.
Yea... Surely an impeachable offense. :^/
Seriously.... THAT kind of tone-deafness surely requires a firing squad....
Let's do it right aways before President Trump says something else that can be nit-picked...
Daily reminder: MICHALE has no problem at all with murder of Second Lieutenant Richard Collins by a white supremacist.
He has so many opinions! But he has nothing but crickets about this murder.
How often has he written: Silence means assent?
Sad.
Let's do it right aways before President Trump says something else that can be nit-picked.
Ah, I remember that feeling well, from Obama's first term. You'll eventually get used to it.
The photo making the rounds of the Pope with Bumpy and Melania and Ivanka is actually heart-rending. You see Bumpy with his giant smile -- "I'm a big boy here with one of the world's most important people!!"
Then you see the Pope's expression of pained distance and discomfort and distaste. The Pope cannot force his face to lie for him.
DT has actually made one of the world's most loving humans grimace. And he's (45) oblivious to it.
Then the Pope gave him his Encyclical about Climate Change. I doubt Bumpy got the joke or the irony in that.
Anyone who actually cares about DT, the human being, should get him the hell off the national/international stage. Nothing but humiliation awaits him.
He has so many opinions! But he has nothing but crickets about this murder.
As usual, you spew nothing but lies without ANY facts whatsoever...
http://www.chrisweigant.com/2017/05/22/trumps-exhausting-first-road-trip/#comment-100821
Caught in another lie Paula...
Ah, I remember that feeling well, from Obama's first term.
Of course ya remember it well... Ya went hysterical condemning it.
But now it's YA'ALL that is doing it... Hypocrisy much...
MUCH too much...
Anyone who actually cares about DT, the human being, should get him the hell off the national/international stage. Nothing but humiliation awaits him.
And yet, it was NOT-45 who was even MORE humiliated by being BEAT by Donald Trump..
How will you EVER live that down!!??? :D
hehehehehehehe
"misunderestimated" is a nit-pick. "is our children learning" is a nit-pick. the "nancy reagan thing" was a nitpick.
what trump wrote at yad vashem is a somewhat more severe gaffe. i'd be embarrassed for a teacher who would write that in a high-schooler's yearbook, much less a head of state at the holocaust memorial.
JL
Balthasar...
Still waiting for you to provide ANY facts to support your accusation that NATO ministers were told to keep their speeches short because of President Trump's attention span...
Victoria,
Still waiting for you to provide ANY facts to support your accusation that President Trump asked two intelligence officials to lie for him..
ALL,
Still waiting for ANYONE to provide facts to support the accusation that President Trump called Director Comey a 'nut job'...
ALL,
Still waiting for ANYONE to provide ANY facts to support the accusation that President Trump leaked classified information to the Russians..
ANY facts??? ANY at all???
No????
Didna think so...
Dismissed....
@michale,
those leaks are factual, meaning they are either completely true or complete fabrications. considering that it would look REALLY bad for the journalists involved if the latter turns out to be true - most likely a firing offense - my money is on them being substantiated.
to be clear, i concede that they can not yet be used as evidence in a court proceeding or an impeachment hearing, but here in the blogosphere, i rate them more likely true than untrue.
JL
[23] Ah, I pushed and pushed and you felt compelled to respond. Good.
I didn't lie -- you had not yet responded. Now you have.
YOU LIED by posting your comment AFTER mine, then claiming I lied about your lack of comment.
Silly.
@paula,
i agree with you that "silence gives assent" is a ridiculous and untrue premise. however, going to those lengths just to disprove it isn't going to influence michale's posting habits.
JL
[30] nypoet: What makes you think I want to influence Schultzie's posting habits?
those leaks are factual, meaning they are either completely true or complete fabrications. considering that it would look REALLY bad for the journalists involved if the latter turns out to be true
Really?? How so???
Any bullshit lie to take down President Trump is a virtue...
most likely a firing offense - my money is on them being substantiated.
Then why haven't they??
WHy has WaPoop alone had to publish HUNDREDS of retractions??
I mean, if we forget about Party zealotry, the mere fact that the WaPoops track record on ACCURATE reporting is abysmal should indicate where the money should go..
[23] Ah, I pushed and pushed and you felt compelled to respond. Good.
No, I had said that when the adults were finished talking, I would address your hysteria..
Plus given the fact that you actually requested like an adult instead of immature childish name calling....
What makes you think I want to influence Schultzie's posting habits?
And immature childish Hot Lips is back... :^/
what trump wrote at yad vashem is a somewhat more severe gaffe.
That's an opinion...
i'd be embarrassed for a teacher who would write that in a high-schooler's yearbook, much less a head of state at the holocaust memorial.
I guess consistency is a little too much to ask for those in the throes of PTDS.....
i agree with you that "silence gives assent" is a ridiculous and untrue premise.
Except when it serves the hysterical Leftist agenda, as Hot Lips just proved..
however, going to those lengths just to disprove it isn't going to influence michale's posting habits.
Troo dat.....
those leaks are factual,
And the hysterical Odumbo accusations were also "factual" in the context you mean..
That doesn't mean ya'all repeated them ad-nasuem.. As a matter of fact, ya'all CONDEMNED those who DID repeat them ad-nasuem..
NOW it is YA'ALL who are not only NOT CONDEMNING the accusations, it's YA'ALL who are REPEATING the accusations ad-nasuem..
How is that not blatant hypocrisy???
Schultzie:
WHy has WaPoop alone had to publish HUNDREDS of retractions??
Yes, the "adult-hood-ness" shines forth there.
Obama admin knew gang members were part of illegal immigrant surge: Whistleblower
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/may/24/whistleblower-dhs-knowingly-let-ms-13-gang-members/
There's a "FACTUAL" leak for ya'all...
DO ya'all want to condemn Odumbo???
No???
"Surprise, surprise, surprise..."
-Gomer Pyle
Yes, the "adult-hood-ness" shines forth there.
Ya'all made the rules.. I am just playing by them..
You don't like it?? Change yer shit..... Grow up...
It's not rocket science, Hot Lips...
But the great thing is that you felt compelled to respond.
I won!
We'll see how the next round goes. I'll let you know when the game starts.
those leaks are factual, meaning they are either completely true or complete fabrications. considering that it would look REALLY bad for the journalists involved if the latter turns out to be true - most likely a firing offense - my money is on them being substantiated.
OK, at least we agree that, as things stand right now, every accusation ya'all have been spewing is UNSUBSTANTIATED
Meaning NO FACTS TO SUPPORT THEM....
Which is what I have been saying all along...
When ya'all get REAL and TANGIBLE and RELEVANT facts to substantiate the accusations, then we can revisit the issue..
But until that time and since this is a REALITY based forum, can we knock off the unsubstantiated bullshit???
Because, if we can't, it's gonna get real tedious what with ya'all spewing totally baseless accusations and me pointing out with dozens of comments how ya'all are spewing totally baseless accusations w/o even a WHIFF of fact to support...
Is THAT how ya'all wanna spend yer time in Weigantia???
But the great thing is that you felt compelled to respond.
I won!
Once again, you are making baseless and factless assumptions...
I saw that you were acting like an adult so I decided to reward you with a response...
It's a well known principle called Positive Re-enforcement... It's especially effective dealing with small children who simply don't know any better...
I am not surprised it worked on you...
[42] Nice try Schultzie!
But no cigar.
Sarge: I like that you think you got ME to respond.
When it was YOU who was lured into my trap!
HA HA HA HA HA!!
OK, at least we agree that, as things stand right now, every accusation ya'all have been spewing is UNSUBSTANTIATED
i think you misunderstood. at the moment we don't know whether they are substantiated or unsubstantiated. there are certainly claims of substantiation. because the substance is hidden (presumably for the protection of the sources), it's as yet unproven. since NYT and WP have a reputation of stories backed by valid sources, if it turns out that the substance does not exist, then whoever researched the story should be fired.
JL
Trump has done what Obama didn’t: scare NATO into tracking defense spending
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article152364357.html
Making America Great Again... :D
i think you misunderstood. at the moment we don't know whether they are substantiated or unsubstantiated.
No, at the moment, we KNOW that they are UNSUBSTANTIATED..
there are certainly claims of substantiation.
And an anonymous source saying "It's true.. Trust me" has as much "substantiation" as the original claim..
since NYT and WP have a reputation of stories backed by valid sources,
and since the Grime and the Poop have a more recent history of printing total and complete bullshit and having to retract their initial claims...
if it turns out that the substance does not exist, then whoever researched the story should be fired.
And until such time as substantiation is provided, the accusations are UNSUBSTANTIATED...
That means nothing more than rumors..
Regardless of how you want to spin it, THAT is what it all boils down to..
Rumors.. Innuendo...
Ya'all believe them because ya'all WANT to believe them..
I don't believe them because there are no FACTS, no one ON THE RECORD, no one putting their name to to claims...
Put it another way...
Suppose we find out that Maxine Waters is the source of all these accusations..
What say you then???
The EXACT same thing I am saying now..
Utter bullshit...
Sarge: I like that you think you got ME to respond.
That's Lieutenant to you, Hot Lips..
I never claimed I got you to respond. That's your bullshit, not mine..
I simply pointed out that I was dealing with a small child and rewarded that child when she did something that was adult and mature...
And until such time as substantiation is provided, the accusations are UNSUBSTANTIATED...
disagree. the stories claim that they ARE substantiated. unsubstantiated literally means without substance. unless you know for certain whether or not that is the case, you've no business making that determination.
JL
disagree. the stories claim that they ARE substantiated
So!???
If the claims ARE bullshit, then the substantiation claim is ALSO bullshit..
That's like a person who lies but says they are telling the truth...
unsubstantiated literally means without substance.
Ahhhh.. There is the problem.. You are changing definitions to fit your agenda..
un·sub·stan·ti·at·ed
??ns?b?stan(t)SH???d?d/Submit
adjective
not supported or proven by evidence.
Unsubstantiated means NOT SUPPORTED OR PROVEN BY EVIDENCE....
The claims are UNSUBSTANTIATED until such time as there is evidence or facts to support the claims..
unless you know for certain whether or not that is the case, you've no business making that determination.
I know for certain that there are no facts or evidence to support the claims, therefore I am the PERFECT one to make the determination...
And here's the next thing about Sgt. Schultz:
After prodding, he finally comes out with a statement of condemnation about the terrible wrongness of a white supremacist stabbing to death a young black college student who was minding his own business and offered neither provocation or threat. He was simply black.
So Schultzie concedes the terribleness of that act. Good.
But here's the real test: does Schultzie make that same comment at any of the online rightwing outlets he frequents?
Does he point out to his fellow-republicans/trumpers the horribleness of the act? Does he bring it to their attention? Does he recognize his, and his fellow-rightwing-travelers' overt and covert support of white supremacists leads to the deaths of innocent people? Does he admit 45's embrace of white supremacy during his campaign encourages such people to believe their thuggery and racism is acceptable? Does he condemn the militia groups who are threatening violence if 45 goes down? Or is he fine with all of that, hmm?
Since I haven't seen any screeds condemning those behaviors I have to assume he's on board with them. And even if he felt pushed to condemn them here, does he condemn them among his buddies? Or does he agree with them. Or does he enable them by doing neither?
Enquiring minds want to know.
The claims are UNSUBSTANTIATED until such time as there is evidence or facts to support the claims..
so... your assertion is that there is no evidence or facts to support the claims, and NYT's and WP's assertion is that there is indeed evidence and facts to support their claims. if we were in criminal court, your assertion would hold water, since the standard of evidence there requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt. since we're not, NYT and WP have enough credibility to be believed unless proven wrong. therefore, your argument doesn't hold water.
JL
Hot Lips,
But here's the real test: does Schultzie make that same comment at any of the online rightwing outlets he frequents?
I can assure you with complete confidence that I DO make the same exact comments on *ALL* the "rightwing outlets" I frequent..
BBBWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
All- Please don't feed the troll. It just results in more troll feces.
since we're not, NYT and WP have enough credibility to be believed unless proven wrong. therefore, your argument doesn't hold water.
ANd therein lies the crux of the issue..
Grime and Poop *ONLY* have credibility because it's what you WANT to believe..
Due to the ample evidence that Grime and Poop have printed bullshit in the past and have had to retract their claims, MY claim that their reports are bullshit carry more weight to an objective "court"...
You believe Grime and Poop because you WANT to believe..
I don't believe Grime and Poop because there are no facts or evidence to support their accusations and because they have a track record of printing bullshit when it comes to President Trump....
<All- Please don't feed the troll. It just results in more troll feces..
As opposed to the luser who complains that President Trump doesn't get his hand held. :D
Hot Lips,
I can assure you with complete confidence that I DO make the same exact comments on *ALL* the "rightwing outlets" I frequent..
BBBWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The reason I am laughing at you so hard is because, with the exception of a few technical forums on occasion ( I am having trouble with my FitBit Surge right now, for example... ) this is the only forum I participate in..
You see, I have a life that has soo much more in it than just politics..
Unlike lusers who have nervous breakdowns when their candidate gets her ass handed to her in an election...
I am just not that into politics...
But bully for those who are... More power to 'em... :D
Grime and Poop *ONLY* have credibility because it's what you WANT to believe..
first off, your argument is undercut by name-calling, not supported by it. if you don't have a valid basis for your doubt of the veracity of facts as reported, name-calling does not create one.
second, NYT and WP have credibility regardless of what i want to believe. they abide by journalistic standards, without which they might as well be the national enquirer.
third, you're wrong - i don't WANT to believe that the president would do the things that it's reported he did. if true, it's incredibly unfortunate and a wasted opportunity.
JL
[57] Schultzie: Yes, that's what I assumed.
I'm quite sure you frequent rightwing outlets because you spew their stuff.
And I'm quite sure you do NOT post objections to their stuff.
So you are either an approver, or an enabler. Probably both.
As either/both, you contribute to and validate a worldview that produces people who stab innocent young men for being black.
first off, your argument is undercut by name-calling, not supported by it.
So, that means that EVERYONE's argument about Trump is undercut by their name-calling, right?? :D
That means that EVERYONE's argument against me is undercut by their name-calling, right?? :D
if you don't have a valid basis for your doubt of the veracity of facts as reported, name-calling does not create one.
I don't NEED to create a valid basis.. One already exists.. Which I could easily prove to you if I thought for a second it would result in your concession..
second, NYT and WP have credibility regardless of what i want to believe.
No.. They ONLY have credibility in YOUR eyes BECAUSE you believe..
The polls of the American public PROVE beyond ANY doubt that Grime, WaPoop et al have NO CREDIBILITY..
They have LESS credibility than Trump has.
This is well documented..
third, you're wrong - i don't WANT to believe that the president would do the things that it's reported he did.
If this were true, you would give the President of the United States the benefit of the doubt when confronted by TOTALLY UNSUBSTANTIATED rumors and accusations..
The fact that you don't proves that you WANT to believe..
Hot Lips,
I'm quite sure you frequent rightwing outlets because you spew their stuff.
Prove it..
You can't because it's nothing but bullshit..
As is everything you spew...
Nothing but bullshit...
So, that means that EVERYONE's argument about Trump is undercut by their name-calling, right?? :D
That means that EVERYONE's argument against me is undercut by their name-calling, right?? :D
yes, name-calling weakens the argument.
I don't NEED to create a valid basis.. One already exists.. Which I could easily prove to you if I thought for a second it would result in your concession..
so... you refuse to make an argument because you're afraid i won't accept it? perhaps you're not so confident in the strength of that argument.
wife just got home, to be continued.
JL
Well here's something interesting: http://www.rawstory.com/2017/05/reporter-decked-by-montana-candidate-greg-gianforte-was-just-hauled-off-in-an-ambulance-report/
Reports popping up in several places. The DT-loving Repub running in Montana just assaulted a reporter. Reporter in ambulance. Story still developing.
And just a few hours ago I opined that maybe all the rightwing violence approving stuff might just cause some people to do violent things.
Whether this will turn out to be an example of that is not yet clear. We'll see.
[61] Oh, and Schultzie: c'mon now. That's just amateur.
Ah well, even the greatest of trolls eventually start to slow down -- its inevitable. Look at DT? Couple articles today were comparing how "sharp" he sounded in the 1980's during one of his lawsuit testimonies. But now he can barely string a complete sentence together.
Life can be cruel.
And yet, no one today brought up Brennan's testimony. Former CIA director John Brennan was grilled by Republicans yesterday about what the CIA knew about contacts between Russia and the Trump campaign prior to Trump's inauguration.
Brennan said that he'd seen enough information about “contacts and interactions” between Russian actors and people associated with the Trump campaign to make him believe that “there was a sufficient basis of information and intelligence that required further investigation” by the FBI.
Mind you, Brennan spoke on the record, under oath.
At one point, Rep. Trey "goober" Gowdy asked Brennan to provide evidence that Trump colluded with the Russians. Any such evidence is “appropriately classified” answered Brennan, who added, “this committee has access to the documents we would have provided to the bureau.”
So I'll bet that the classified portion of that briefing was really interesting.
The audio sounds pretty bad for Gianforte. And he assaulted the reporter who'd reported last week that Gianforte has $250,000 in shares in a Russian-sanctioned index fund.
My my these republicans and their ties to Russia.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/24/greg-gianforte-bodyslams-reporter-ben-jacobs-montana
The Gianforte campaign puts out a statement blaming "the liberal reporter".
No.. They ONLY have credibility in YOUR eyes BECAUSE you believe..
feel free to go on thinking that, but it's not the case. the facts reported are very specific, could be easily verified true or false, and are not attributed to some random anonymous person. the NYT and WP leaks are attributed to government officials who have firsthand knowledge, and who wish to remain anonymous to protect their jobs. that explanation is credible. the only alternative is that either they or the reporters are telling complete fabrications, which are generally quite rare among professional journalists. given the gravity of the allegations, that would be career suicide by the reporters AND the government officials, which also means they have a very strong disincentive from doing so.
The polls of the American public PROVE beyond ANY doubt that Grime, WaPoop et al have NO CREDIBILITY..
that's an 'ad populum' fallacy. credibility isn't determined by popularity.
If this were true, you would give the President of the United States the benefit of the doubt when confronted by TOTALLY UNSUBSTANTIATED rumors and accusations..
donald forfeited the benefit of the doubt when he fired comey on the 9th with the pretext that it was because of hillary's e-mails, then said on television on the 11th that it had been pre-planned and was really about the russia thing. and that's not even taking into account all the other transparently untrue things he's said over the course of the past year and a half.
donald's pants are so perpetually on fire that there's just no room for benefit left.
JL
Michale
27
Still waiting for you to provide ANY facts to support your accusation that President Trump asked two intelligence officials to lie for him..
It wasn't my accusation, sugar. It was BREAKING NEWS from journalists. If you don't like it, take it up with the journalists at their respective newspaper and STFU.
You've been asked by CW and me to stop using that name... so stop.
40
Paula
But the great thing is that you felt compelled to respond.
I won!
Yes, Paula is easily the clear winner and now invited to be a member of the Kick Ass Club.
Hotlips... Paula
Badass.... Kick
Punk....... altohone
Wear it as a badge of honor. :)
Michale
41
But until that time and since this is a REALITY based forum, can we knock off the unsubstantiated bullshit???
Michale can't handle the newspaper reports that we're posting and would like us to stop. All those in favor of making Weigantia a SAFE SPACE for Michale... raise your hand.
No hands!
Right then, carry on with the news, links, and let's redouble our efforts. Fox running scared... Tally ho! :)
Paula
59
I'm quite sure you frequent rightwing outlets because you spew their stuff.
Prove it?!!!!!!!!!
Not only does he "spew their stuff," he posts links to their stuff and copies their stuff here in Weigantia, and there's no less than years and years of evidence of proof here in the archives... links to your left. *LOL*
And Hotlips wins again! From her lips to God's ears. She's not just Hot: This girl is on fire! :)
Paula [67] The Fox news crew that was there to interview Gianforte released a statement backing up the reporter's version of the incident. oop.
yes, name-calling weakens the argument.
Maybe a reminder to those who use it with practically EVERY COMMENT might be in order, eh? :D
so... you refuse to make an argument because you're afraid i won't accept it? perhaps you're not so confident in the strength of that argument.
Dood!! This entire commentary is FILLED with my "making an argument".. You just don't like the argument being made cuz it's so dead on ballz accurate.. :D
Victoria,
Not only does he "spew their stuff," he posts links to their stuff and copies their stuff here in Weigantia, and there's no less than years and years of evidence of proof here in the archives... links to your left. *LOL*
Ahhhh But Hot Lips was talking about me POSTING to rightwing outlets...
And that is something I simply don't do. As I said, I am not the type who has nervous breakdowns when their candidates lose, I am not the type who comments to bunches of political blogs..
I actually have a life where politics is a very small part...
So, can you prove I post comments in ANY rightwing blogs???
No, you can't..
So, you lose Victoria...
Victoria
It wasn't my accusation, sugar. It was BREAKING NEWS from journalists. If you don't like it, take it up with the journalists at their respective newspaper and STFU.
You posted the news, you treated it as fact.. It's your accusation for which you have absolutely NO PROOF or NO FACTS to support..
You own it.. Man up and support it..
You've been asked by CW and me to stop using that name... so stop.
Actually, with CW, it was a misunderstanding that has since been resolved..
With you?? I really don't give a rat's ass what you prefer...
I prefer to have ALL the name-calling stopped and that EVERY Weigantian respect every other Weigantian..
When that happens, I will respect your request..
UNTIL it happens.. F.O.D.
JL,
feel free to go on thinking that, but it's not the case.
Until such time as facts arise to dispute the claim, I will go on thinking it because it's the only conclusion that fits the facts..
the facts reported are very specific, could be easily verified true or false, and are not attributed to some random anonymous person.
If they could be easily verified, then why haven't they been??
And, IF it IS a fact that they COULD be easily verified and it's a FACT that they haven't been, then that seems to argue AGAINST your case that they are, indeed, factual..
Further, a SPECIFIC anonymous source and a random anonymous source is STILL an anonymous source..
the NYT and WP leaks are attributed to government officials who have firsthand knowledge,
According to the FACTS, the sources for the TRUMP REVEALED CLASSIFIED INFO TO THE RUSSIANS are NOT in government and were NOT present at the meeting in question..
How could they have first hand knowledge??
Answer, they can't.. The Grime and WaPoop are full of shit and anyone who buys into their lies are just as bad..
and who wish to remain anonymous to protect their jobs.
So?? They are committing felonies and, as such, are not fit to HOLD their jobs.
that's an 'ad populum' fallacy. credibility isn't determined by popularity.
And yet, it's an argument ya'all make about President Trump quite often... :D
Gotcha....
donald forfeited the benefit of the doubt when he fired comey on the 9th
Oh, com'on JL.. Are you trying to tell me you have been giving the President the benefit of the doubt up to the point he fired Director Comey???
Com'on.. I may have been born at night, but it wasn't LAST night...
:D
Balthy,
And yet, no one today brought up Brennan's testimony.
You didn't care about Brennan's testimony when he claimed under oath that there was absolutely NO EVIDENCE to support the Russia Collusion claim...
NOW that Brennan says what you want to hear, NOW his testimony is gospel?? :D
You are so transparently bigoted, it's sad.....
And you STILL have no facts to support your accusation that NATO ministers were told to limit their speeches because of President Trump's limited attention span...
Why on earth would you believe you have ANY credibility about ANYTHING when you spew lies like that???
Hot Lips,
Still waiting for you to prove that I post to rightwing political sites..
You get caught in ANOTHER lie and you run away...
So typical....
Victoria,
Michale can't handle the newspaper reports that we're posting and would like us to stop. All those in favor of making Weigantia a SAFE SPACE for Michale... raise your hand.
Not at all. But this is a REALITY based forum (at least, it WAS) and ya'all are doing yer best to trash it by knowingly posting total, complete bullshit that has no basis in fact..
Ya'all are making Weigantia nothing but an ENQUIRER outlet and yea, that kind of irks me..
Unlike you, I remember the good old days of substantial intellectual discussions and an atmosphere where FACTS were god...
Ya'all have made this place a cesspool of rumors, innuendos and out and out total bullshit and call it "truth"...
So, yea.. It WOULD be nice to return to that time where FACTS and ONLY FACTS were posted and commented..
But, with lusers like you, Hot Lips, Balthy, etc etc etc, I doubt we'll ever see a FACT-based forum again...
Congrats Victoria.. You have succeeded in your goal of trashing this place. Hope yer happy..
There Remains No Evidence Of Trump-Russia Collusion
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2017/05/23/there-remains-no-evidence-of-trump-russia-collusion/#4b8c07e5242c
Of course, when has NO FACTS and NO EVIDENCE ever stopped the haters in Weigantia??? :^/
so... you refuse to make an argument because you're afraid i won't accept it?
I wouldn't characterize it as a "fear" so much as a sad acknowledgement of the times we are in, in the here and now... :^/
For example, your definition of "unsubstantiated" was totally self-serving and completely wrong. I proved it was wrong.. There was no forth-coming concession.. No simple: "Yer right, Michale. My bust.."
Yea, I know, I know.. It seems silly.. But you would be amazed at how far a little courtesy such as that goes...
So my acknowledgement that no concessions are forthcoming when facts are proven DOES have basis in fact..
Of course, you could argue that, since I DID put forth the argument on the definition of 'unsubstantiated' w/o expecting any concession, I should do so on the other argument.....
But that argument of yours wouldn't hold water because it was quite easy to show your definition of 'unsubstantiated' was wrong and, if you failed to acknowledge it (as you had done.. or not done... whatever...) it wouldn't be any skin off my teeth, nothing in the way of wasted time...
With the other argument, it would require considerable research, time-consuming research.. And all for what?? At best, having the argument ignored... Worse, calling into question the facts that are KNOWN VALID facts..
So, no thank you.. I have seen THAT movie too many times to sit thru another showing.... :^/
If you can't accept the facts, then we'll just have to agree to disagree..
On Fox, it seemed, no rumor was too unsubstantiated, no innuendo too vile and no accusation too abhorrent.
-Monica Lewinsky
Sound familiar???
When it comes to President Trump and Republicans, ya'all are acting EXACTLY how Lewinsky describes Fox News...
Ya'all must be SO proud.... :^/
And yes, the lack of NEN is noted and intentional...
Don't believe me???
“{President Trump's} budget, if I can be honest with you, is an attempt to implement ethnic cleansing in this nation from people of color, but also poor white folk from whom services being but will be impacted the most”
-Democrat Bishop Dwayne Royster
Yep, sure sounds like, what was it Lewinsky said??
no rumor was too unsubstantiated, no innuendo too vile and no accusation too abhorrent
How sad that this is Weigantia and the Democrat Party today... :^(
and who wish to remain anonymous to protect their jobs.
And, in the case of the TRUMP LEAKS INTELLIGENCE TO RUSSIANS bullshit, the anonymous sources aren't even IN government anymore, so they have no jobs at risk..
Ergo, there is absolutely NO REASON for them to be anonymous, EXCEPT for the fact that the story is complete and utter bullshit....
"Simple logic."
-Admiral James T Kirk
unsubstantiated literally means without substance.
That's the etymology, not the definition..
Michale
78
You didn't care about Brennan's testimony when he claimed under oath that there was absolutely NO EVIDENCE to support the Russia Collusion claim...
When was this testimony under oath? I have seen Brennan testify under oath one time. He never said that.
I know Bathy doesn't need my help, but anyone can DYOFR.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/15/nato-frantically-tries-to-trump-proof-presidents-first-visit-alliance-europe-brussels/
If that's not enough proof, CW wrote something similar in the blog. You should read it sometime and learn to comprehend the written word.
Victoria...
If that's not enough proof,
“It’s kind of ridiculous how they are preparing to deal with Trump,” said one source briefed extensively on the meeting’s preparations. “It’s like they’re preparing to deal with a child — someone with a short attention span and mood who has no knowledge of NATO, no interest in in-depth policy issues, nothing,” said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity. “They’re freaking out.”
Once again, you treat ANONYMOUS hearsay as "proof"...
Whereas the link that *I* posted actually had comments from NAMED people who went ON THE RECORD...
So, who am I to believe..
People who are willing to make statements in the clear and have them documented and attributed??
Or hysterical bigots who are ashamed to have their names associated with their comments..
It's obvious who you back... :^/
I know Bathy doesn't need my help,
Oh, Bathy needs PLENTY of help...
But YOUR kind of help simply proves MY point... :D
Once again.. Yer PWNED......
Michale
75
Ahhhh But Hot Lips was talking about me POSTING to rightwing outlets...
Ah, I see your problem, it's a reading comprehension one. She actually said exactly the opposite; she was talking about you visiting right-wing sites and NOT posting anything to refute the shit you spew back on this website, which we all know you do.
Paula at [59] said, and I quote:
I'm quite sure you frequent rightwing outlets because you spew their stuff.
And I'm quite sure you do NOT post objections to their stuff.
What part is confusing at all? That's pretty basic stuff unless, of course, you have a reading comprehension problem, which you have proven many times over that you possess.
Then you asked Paula to prove you visited right-wing sites. Seriously... LOL... you asked Paula to prove you visited right-wing sites like there wasn't ample proof contained in the archives. So, you see. She nailed it.
So, can you prove I post comments in ANY rightwing blogs???
Instead of proving Paula was wrong, you just went above and beyond and proved without doubt whatsoever that she was 1000% absolutely dead on balls accurate. Congratulations.
So, you lose Michael... truer words were never spoken... YOU LOSE. You persisted and insisted on proving Paula's point, and that makes you a double loser. :)
What a beautiful day in Weigantia.... :D
Victoria....
What part is confusing at all? That's pretty basic stuff unless, of course, you have a reading comprehension problem, which you have proven many times over that you possess.
Not confusing at all..
Hot Lips accused me of posting to rightwing sites, just not posting opposition to her idea of rightwing ideology...
I realize, you having had yer pee pee whacked numerous times in the last few hours, you are flailing around for ANY sort of face-saving bullshit..
But Hot Lip's intent was clear as yours is..
You've been PWNED, Victoria... Face the facts.. :D
Victoria,
Just like you were PWNED just a min ago when you posted anti-Trump bullshit from ANONYMOUS sources vis a vis NATO..
Isn't it funny that those who claim inside knowledge that paints President Trump in a bad light nearly ALWAYS speak ONLY on condition of anonymity??
That right there should your biggest clue..
But, being a Party bigot, you don't care about anything regarding FACTS or reality...
As long as you can spew your bullshit, yer a happy camper.. :D
Michale
88
So, who am I to believe..
I really don't give two shits about who you believe. Believe CW and quit squealing like a little piglet when someone posts a link to a newspaper or magazine article because you don't the content of the article. :p
Victoria,
Don't tell me, let me guess..
You have some "errands" to run so you have to go now, right???
BBBWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
PWNED
Victoria,
"You can't win.. I've got GOD on my side!!"
-Leland Gant, NEEDFUL THINGS
:D
'We Can't Hide Behind a Wall'...
-Barack Obama
Says the guy who just spent 3 million dollars putting a wall around his new digs...
The blatant hypocrisy would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic and sad....
Hot Lips,
And just a few hours ago I opined that maybe all the rightwing violence approving stuff might just cause some people to do violent things.
And your opinion is based on political bigotry and, as such, is meaningless...
If it had been a Left Winger who had body slammed a Fox News reporter, you would have been cheering that Leftie on and wanting to give him/her a medal..
Don't bother denying it because we both know it's a factual claim..
Irregardless of these facts, such violence has NO place in civilized behavior...
A point none of ya'all make when there is Left Winger violence...
LONDON/MANCHESTER (Reuters) - British police stopped sharing information about the Manchester suicide bombing with the United States on Thursday after leaks to U.S. media that police said had risked compromising their investigations.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/british-pm-may-challenge-trump-over-intelligence-leaks-073459071.html
Great job, Dumbocrats..
Because of ya'all's illegal activities, this country is less safe...
But the Left Whinery doesn't care about the safety of the country.. All they care about is bringing down Trump and it doesn't matter to them at all if it costs innocent American lives...
Kick [87] Already posted that. He ignored it.
M[78] NOW that Brennan says what you want to hear, NOW his testimony is gospel
This testimony is under oath. And he confirms: plenty to investigate, there.
[98] Ahem. Did you read the article? May is angry at the Trump Administration for leaking like a rusty pail. Starts at the top, with the orange one's complete disregard for the term 'classified'.
This testimony is under oath. And he confirms: plenty to investigate, there.
Oh.. So when he said just a few months ago that there was nothing there at all, he was lying???
[98] Ahem. Did you read the article? May is angry at the Trump Administration for leaking like a rusty pail.
May is angry at the leaks, as it President Trump..
Ya'all LOVE the leaks, even though it puts innocent lives at risk..
THAT is as scumbaggy as it gets....
Put another way..
If ya'all (NEN) had the choice between getting leaks that hurt Trump, but also cause the deaths of innocent people, ya'all (NEN) would still opt for the leaks..
That is how low ya'all (NEN) have sunk and how sad ya'all (NEN) have become....
So when he said just a few months ago that there was nothing there at all, he was lying?
He was the CIA chief. Ahem.
May is angry at the leaks, as it President Trump
That's putting the best possible spin on it. You seem to keep forgetting that the Dems aren't in charge anymore. This is your team fucking up, cowboy.
The scumbag leakers just made a very fatal mistake..
In their zeal to bring down President Trump, they put innocent lives at risk...
Americans will turn against the Democrats and leakers now..
Well, the majority of Americans will.. The leakers will still have plenty of support here in Weigantia no matter how many innocents are killed.. :^/
Kick: thanks!!! Your posts were a joy and a hoot!
Michale; So here we have yet another test of your principles and regard for democracy. A billionaire Republican candidate, according the 3 witnesses, grabbed a reporter by the throat, slammed him down to the ground and punched him in the face. This in response to questions about the GOP healthcare bill.
Do you condemn this? So far you simply asserted everyone here would applaud such behavior if the candidate was a Democrat, which is a weak-ass dodge. You like to postulate hypotheticals about something you claim others would do, as a way of avoiding judgment about something someone actually did.
Do you condemn Gianforte's attack on the reporter?
Paula,
Do you condemn Gianforte's attack on the reporter?
Uh... I already did....
:D
Paula,
The funny thing is, I condemned it without any prompting.
Ya'all (NEN) won't even condemn Left Wingery violence WITH prompting..
That's one of the biggest differences between me and the majority of ya'all..
Dem/GOP doesn't matter to me in the least..
Wrong is wrong, regardless of Party...
[104] You're (deliberately?) missing the point. The leaks are coming from within the White House, from leakers within the Trump camp. That goes both for anti-Trump leaks, and for those that May is upset about.
Trump needs to mend his own roof. The democrats have NOTHING to do with this.
Dem/GOP doesn't matter to me in the least..
Hah. Right.
104] You're (deliberately?) missing the point. The leaks are coming from within the White House, from leakers within the Trump camp. That goes both for anti-Trump leaks, and for those that May is upset about.
No, you are ignoring the point..
You are ignoring the FACT that all the leaks and leakers have ONE thing in common.
They want to bring down Trump..
And now it's going to cost innocent lives..
Not that any of ya'all (NEN) care about that... As long as Trump is hurt, ya'all don't care about innocent lives..
Dem/GOP doesn't matter to me in the least..
Hah. Right.
My NPA status is well-documented and well-acknowledged...
Blaming President Trump for the leaks is like blaming the woman for being raped...
Which, ironically enough, coming from ya'all doesn't surprise me a damn bit...
[110]You are ignoring the FACT that all the leaks and leakers have ONE thing in common.
They were all hired by Trump?
[97] Irregardless of these facts, such violence has NO place in civilized behavior…
Yes, I missed that. Probably because it was surrounded by non-factual assertions.
Still, I will acknowledge you made this statement and will remember it for future reference.
They were all hired by Trump?
We don't know because they are too cowardly to go on the record..
But there are PLENTY of Odumbo hold-overs and my money is on them..
Paula,
Yes, I missed that. Probably because it was surrounded by non-factual assertions.
Says the queen of non-factual assertions.. :D
Still, I will acknowledge you made this statement and will remember it for future reference.
Danke.. that is very nice of you. I mean that...
The funny thing is, I condemned it without any prompting.
That IS funny!
My NPA status is well-documented
It seems every Trumper claims non-partisan status. Part of hating everyone, I suppose.
But they hire Republicans.
They vote for Republican bills.
They spew Republican talking points.
They party like it's 1959.
They claim to be anti-establishment, but put Wall Street and Priebus and Ryan in charge.
Hell, might as well call Romney an outsider. Makes as much sense.
But there are PLENTY of Odumbo hold-overs and my money is on them..
In the White House? In the National Security Council?
In private meetings?
Good try.
It seems every Trumper claims non-partisan status. Part of hating everyone, I suppose.
But they hire Republicans.
They vote for Republican bills.
They spew Republican talking points.
They party like it's 1959.
They claim to be anti-establishment, but put Wall Street and Priebus and Ryan in charge.
Hell, might as well call Romney an outsider. Makes as much sense.
I thought we were talking abut me, not 'they'..
I can't and won't speak for 'they'...
In the White House? In the National Security Council?
In private meetings?
Oh those??
Those weren't leaks..
Those were just out and out bullshit with no facts or substantiation...
Paula,
That IS funny!
But oh so factually accurate.. :D
I can't and won't speak for 'they'..
But you can and do speak like 'they' do.
It quacks like a duck.
Oh those?? Those weren't leaks..
It also walks like a duck.
But you can and do speak like 'they' do.
To someone like you, I do..
To someone like THEY, I speak like YOU do..
It also walks like a duck.
But has NO FACTUAL substantiation..
That's the part you always ignore...
But has NO FACTUAL substantiation..
Leaks rarely come with footnotes, documentation, and annotation. But a large number of these leaks have been verified to be true, by none other than the Big Tomato.
But I do sympathize. I mean we tried to warn you that Trump would bring more drama than a Shakespeare Festival. Trump voters invoked the whirlwind, so it's no time to complain about loosing your hats.
Leaks rarely come with footnotes, documentation, and annotation. But a large number of these leaks have been verified to be true, by none other than the Big Tomato.
Then they are nothing but bullshit....
But I do sympathize. I mean we tried to warn you that Trump would bring more drama than a Shakespeare Festival. Trump voters invoked the whirlwind, so it's no time to complain about loosing your hats.
The problem is you and hystericals LIKE you are creating the very problems you "warned" us about..
You are fulfilling your own prophecy..
Ya'all love to bring up the Brennan testimony..
But let's talk about Dem Senator Dianne Feinstein..
Just as recently as last Thursday DiFi, who has access to a multitude of information that Brennan does not, has confirmed that there is "Well, evidence that would establish that there's collusion. There are all kinds of rumors around. There are newspaper stories, but that's not necessarily evidence."
Do you understand that?
Newspaper stories *ARE NOT EVIDENCE*... So says Dem Senator DiFi...
Now I don't listen to DiFi as a matter of course.
But YA'ALL do... At least when she says something ya'all want to hear...
So, let's put it to rest..
THERE IS NO EVIDENCE.. THERE IS NO FACTS to support ya'all's hysteria...
DiFi has access to a 'multitude' of information that the CIA chief did not?
Besides, no one's suggesting that investigations into Trump's dozen or so scandals (so far) should be based on newspaper stories. Indeed, if the WH truly wants to get this behind them, they should be completely forthcoming with real documents, be they transcripts, tapes, or bank deposit slips.
Now as far as this forum's conversation goes, newspaper stories are fair game. You've posted a few yourself, so I'm sure you agree.
The words “The Middle East” and “optimism” are not routinely paired. But who would know that, given the reactions of the region’s leaders to President Trump’s recent trip?
“A turning point,” said Saudi Arabia’s King Salman.
“The reassertion of American leadership in the Middle East,” said Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
“Capable of doing the impossible,” said Egyptian President Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi about Trump’s impact.
Sissi’s use of the word “impossible” was understandable. The optics in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, where Trump gave his principal address, might have seemed implausible even a few weeks ago. But it happened: The rulers of 50 Arab nations gathered in one place to applaud an American President’s exhortations against Islamist “extremism.”
And then there is the reality of the Trump administration....
DiFi has access to a 'multitude' of information that the CIA chief did not?
Yes, once Brennan turned over the info to the FBI, he had no knowledge of what was going on..
Senator Feinstein did..
Now as far as this forum's conversation goes, newspaper stories are fair game. You've posted a few yourself, so I'm sure you agree.
Yes I have.. And the vast majority were filled with FACTS and on the record statements from REAL people...
Ya'all have yet to find me ANY facts on your Trump accusations...
DiFi has access to a 'multitude' of information that the CIA chief did not?
Yes, once Brennan turned over the info to the FBI, he had no knowledge of what was going on..
Senator Feinstein did..
And I could prove that to you if I thought for a micro-second you would actually concede the point...
A reporter who was a firsthand witness to an incident late Wednesday involving Montana GOP candidate Greg Gianforte and a reporter for the Guardian now admits she may have misstated some details of her initial story.
http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/bombshell-montana-assault-witness-changes-story-admits-no-neck-grab/
And now the story changes..
Ya see?? The difference between what ya'all WANT to believe and the facts...
[131] Figures. That reporter was Alicia Acuna, of Fox News. Details aside, the fact that Gianforte slammed the reporter to the ground is undisputed, even by Fox, who probably wishes that the witnesses were CNN reporters, so they could accuse them of making the whole thing up.
[131] Figures. That reporter was Alicia Acuna, of Fox News.
Which ya'all swore by when she said what ya'all wanted to hear... :D
Details aside, the fact that Gianforte slammed the reporter to the ground is undisputed,
No, it IS disputed...
According to Gianforte, the incident is completely different..
And the one eyewitness changed her story...
Yes, once Brennan turned over the info to the FBI, he had no knowledge of what was going on..
Brennan was testifying to what he knew before the inauguration. He didn't forget what he had seen prior to turning it over to Congress, and we certainly didn't apparently hear a lot of classified information. Feinstein has her opinion, and she's entitled to it.
Mueller's the one who'll ultimately call balls and strikes.
According to Gianforte, the incident is completely different
Except that his version STILL conflicts with that of FOUR other people in the room - three Fox employees, and the Guardian reporter.
"I saw both his hands go up, not around his neck in a strangling type of way, but more just on each side of his neck, just grabbed him and I guess it could've been on his clothes, I don't know."
...and then he threw the reporter to the floor. Not that substantially different.
Mueller's the one who'll ultimately call balls and strikes.
And will you shut up til Mueller releases his report??
sheeyaa right....
Except that his version STILL conflicts with that of FOUR other people in the room - three Fox employees, and the Guardian reporter.
Well, we can discount the Fox News employees because, as ya'all claim, they ALWAYS lie..
So, we have the alleged victim and the alleged perpetrator...
They are telling two completely different stories..
I know who YOU believe.. Solely based on political bigotry....
[138] I knew Schultzie would start backpedaling if he could. Doesn't really matter what this FOX person is now saying as the cops charged Thugman with misdemeanor assault, so I think they bought the victim's version of the events.
But, y'know, GOP toadies always accept the word of the billionaire over the working man.
Hot Lips,
I am just going by what YA'ALL say about Fox News people.
But, how bout that.. Yer lousy Dem *STILL* lost...
So much for ya'all's claim of a BIG DEM WAVE, eh?? :D
Hot Lips,
Video of the April 15 assault exploded on right-wing websites in the days following the clash as scores of cybersleuths began identifying Eric Clanton as the masked man seen bashing a Trump backer in the head, causing serious bleeding.
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Former-professor-arrested-in-beating-at-Berkeley-11174575.php
Of course, you will want to condemn this scumbag Left Winger, right???
I won't hold my breath...
Looks like ya'all have really shot yerselves in the foot by insisting on a Special Prosecutor..
Neil, remember how you were looking forward to Comey's testimony last Monday??
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/05/25/robert-mueller-emerging-gatekeeper-all-russia-probes-and-congress-wary/102143246/
Here's why it didn't happen..
And there isn't going to be much in the way of relevant public testimony until Mueller is done..
Pretty smart of President Trump to allow a loyal Republican to be appointed as SP.... :D
Leakers have made a HUGE mistake by pissing off the Brits..
Look for a HUGE downturn of support for the leakers and the Democrats who enable them..
The American people won't stand for it...
As usual, the Dumbocrats overplayed their hand...
Ya see, here is what ya'all have to ask yerselves..
Why is it, when there is all this alleged evidence and all these alleged FACTS that "proves" President Trump colluded with the Russians...
Why is it that NO ONE... let me repeat that for the cheap seats... **NO ONE** is willing to go on the record with all these leaks and accusations??
I mean, anyone with more than 2 brain cells to rub together would realize what a big con this is..
Neil hisself realizes it, which is why he is on record as stating that the Russia Collusion crap is just a huge pile of nothing...
So, we know that Neil has at least 3 brain cells to rub together.. :D
But seriously.. If this case is such a slam dunk, WHY won't anyone speak on the record??
The answer is clear.. It's a big heaping helping of vaporware...
Ya'all know it, yer just afraid to concede the facts...
JL,
You (and most everyone else here) are always defending the "integrity" of the New York Times..
How do you feel about the Grime posting secret information on the bombing in Manchester that put lives at risk??
There was absolutely NO NEWS VALUE in that information, it didn't help the public understand the issue or prepare for anything.. It's SOLE purpose was to embarrass the President and the fact that it put innocent lives at risk didn't matter a bit..
Somehow, I don't think you can use the word "integrity" in the same sentence as the NY Grime....
Trump's Allies, Convicted of High Crimes Without a Trial
Maybe Flynn committed treason. But so far no one has presented any evidence, just innuendo. That's not justice.
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-05-26/trump-s-allies-convicted-of-high-crimes-without-a-trial
Once upon a time, there were respectful and respected Weigantians who wouldn't stoop to this kind of bullshit...
Apparently, they are no extinct... :^(
@michale,
eli lake's article treats the flynn situation as a zero sum game. if someone in the media or in late night comedy takes the facts we currently have to their most extreme possible conclusion, the only available alternative is to vociferously condemn the messenger and treat the alleged perpetrator as if he were the victim?
there's already substantial evidence that flynn committed numerous violations. were they intentional? did they compromise national security? that part we don't know yet. flynn has invoked his fifth amendment rights and resisted congressional requests for documentation of his alleged crimes. that's his prerogative and his right. however, innocent until proven guilty is for a court of law, not public opinion.
JL
That attitude is all well and good and I can see it quite clearly..
My beef is that it's not consistent.. Especially considering the NOT-45 prosecutions...
With NOT-45, the prevailing attitude is COMPLETELY INNOCENT UNTIL MATHEMATICALLY PROVEN GUILTY BEFORE GODS AND MAN....
With someone with a -R after their name, it's FULLY AND COMPLETELY GUILTY SOLELY BASED ON RUMOR, INNUENDO AND INFERENCE....
Kinda sucks...
But I understand that things are the way they are....
Railing against it does no good...