Off With Her Head!
So, comedienne Kathy Griffin's head appears to be on the chopping block. That's a metaphor, of course, and as of now it is even inaccurate, since CNN has already parted ways with Griffin (she co-hosted their New Year's Eve show with Anderson Cooper, one of the most bizarre television matchups since Al Franken and Arianna Huffington appeared "in bed" together, doing their version of election coverage in 1996). Since CNN's announcement, the proper metaphor becomes: "Kathy Griffin axed by CNN." Or, perhaps: "her head has already rolled." These aren't really political metaphors, they're instead business-related. Speaking of getting "axed" rather than getting fired is merely poetic hyperbole, and who among us hasn't ever used the "heads are going to roll" or "on the chopping block" line ourselves? Does this kind of conflation cross a moral or ethical line? Or is it merely what used to be called "gallows humor" -- attempting to make light of the worst of situations?
Having said all of that, I am not going to defend Griffin today. This is not really a column about free speech or artistic license. It could have been, but I prefer to leave commentary on artists and comedians to those who know what they're talking about. While an occasional consumer of both art and comedy, I am certainly no expert and thus don't have anything interesting to add to the conversation of comedic propriety surrounding Griffin's shocking photo with the (fake) bloody, severed head of Donald Trump. But I did want to begin with a reminder that while most of us have never posed for such a photo, the decapitation concept isn't completely out of bounds in polite society, otherwise you wouldn't even recognize what a metaphor such as "heads are going to roll" even means.
There are no hard and fast lines separating pure comedy from two fields I do have more experience commenting about: politics and political theater. Griffin was, by her own account, attempting to make a comedic (and political) point about Donald Trump, using his "blood coming out of her wherever" comment during the campaign as a launching point. This crosses over into (at the very least) political comedy or, perhaps, theatrical political protest.
For politicians themselves, it is never acceptable to joke (or suggest, or even hope for) the death of a United States president (or even a presidential candidate). That's my own ethical bright line, and I regularly take exception when any politician crosses it, no matter how coyly. One prominent reaction to the Griffin controversy came from Chelsea Clinton, who tweeted: "This is vile and wrong. It is never funny to joke about killing a president." I found this somewhat hypocritical, since I remember the 2008 campaign her mother ran. In late May, when the Democratic nomination was slipping away from her for good, Hillary Clinton was interviewed in South Dakota, and attempted to make the case that anything could still happen in the race. Her choice of words was pretty shocking though: "We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California." She wasn't exactly joking, but it certainly did sound a whole lot like wishful thinking, at the very least. Raising the possibility of the first viable black candidate's assassination during a very tight race definitely crossed the line, for me.
I condemned this comment when it was made, and later revisited the issue in 2016 when Clinton's campaign was calling on Bernie Sanders to drop out of the race. Writing about her 2008 campaign, I took her to task for her previous tactics (which you'll note now could easily describe Donald Trump's favorite tactic): "Make a provocative statement, immediately deny that it means what it seems to mean on the face of it, attack the Obama camp for pointing out that these words actually came from her mouth, and then jump all over the media for drawing attention to such a non-issue and demanding the benefit of the doubt for what she said." The R.F.K. assassination remark was not an isolated incident, in other words.
The Clinton family aside, however, at some point even presidential assassinations become acceptable for both jokes and lighthearted political commentary. Otherwise, we wouldn't immediately recognize the following: "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, did you enjoy the play?" But a lot of time has to pass before this becomes even marginally acceptable. Tragedy plus time equals comedy, as the comedians say, but when the tragedy is so great (assassination of a president), then it demands a rather large chunk of time before you can get away with such a remark in polite company.
When it comes to political theater and political protest, assassination metaphors actually have a long history. People in Great Britain have been burning effigies of Guy Fawkes for over 400 years, for instance. There's an even-older Christian tradition (from at least one sect) of burning a Judas effigy right before Easter. This tradition continues in many forms in the modern age -- although it's not exactly politically-based, Burning Man is nothing more than a glorified effigy-burning festival. On a less personal level, fierce political debates still occasionally rage over the constitutionally-protected right to burn an American flag in protest. More common are giant caricature puppets of political leaders paraded through the streets, which serve as objects of hate and derision for the protesters.
Direct calls for assassination reside in a grey area of constitutionally-protected free speech, however. Political speech is the entire reason for the First Amendment, but free speech does not include the right to utter calls to commit violence or other crimes -- both of which easily apply to assassination. But then there's another form of constitutionally-protected speech to consider: satire. Was that call from the stage to be taken literally or in jest? It is left for the courts to decide.
Personally, one of the more brilliant pieces of political doggerel I ever came across I saw written on a bathroom wall of an ultra-liberal college campus (no matter how cliché it sounds, that is indeed where I saw it), in the early 1980s. It was so poignant that I can still remember it word-for-word, over three decades later:
Hinckley, Hinckley, what did you do?
Why did you use a .22?
Hinckley, Hinckley, try once more
Next time, use a .44
This, obviously, crosses all kinds of lines. It clearly approves of John Hinckley's assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan (which had only just happened -- I saw this in 1983, if memory serves -- so not much time had passed). It goes even further, though, pleading with Hinckley not just to try again but to do a better job next time. That's not just crossing a line, that's doubling down on the other side of it. But, you have to admit, it is a clever poem, just on a "doggerel written on a bathroom wall" level.
Of course, the anonymous poet who wrote this wasn't a nationally-known celebrity or anything. Kathy Griffin is. Her attempt at political comedy was widely seen (and widely condemned). She offered up a sincere and unequivocal apology, but lost her biggest gig of the year anyway. On a personal level, two things struck me about the photo in question. The first is that it wasn't very good political comedy, and the second is that the photo is incredibly realistic. Griffin could have offered up a much more relevant commentary with the photo (the "blood coming out of her wherever" quote happened a long time ago). Perhaps something about Trump's recent visit to Saudi Arabia? There, political protesters do indeed still face the penalty of decapitation. With a sword. It'd be hard to make that funny (to me, not being a comedian), but at least it would be a lot more up-to-date.
I think what set off the most outrage, though, was the realism of the photo. That didn't look like some fake prop Trump head, it really did look like Trump's severed and bloody head. If it had been more cartoonish, perhaps Griffin could have gotten away with it. After all, Ted Nugent made comments about lynching Barack Obama, and he wound up getting invited to the White House after Trump took office.
Death in politics, in art, and in comedy is a powerful subject matter. But it's also one that spans the spectrum from children's stories to clear incitement to assassinate. That's a pretty wide spectrum, you have to admit. From cartoonish portrayals of the Grim Reaper (see: Saturday Night Live, Steve Bannon spoof) to cartoons of Mohammed that cause violence throughout the Muslim world, the impact varies greatly. So I cannot join in the widespread condemnation of Kathy Griffin, because I think it's pretty murky where her photo falls on this spectrum. She's a comedienne who regularly uses shock value to get a laugh. That's always dangerous territory, and she regularly risks her own livelihood by treading on it. As far as CNN was concerned, it was enough to drop the axe and make her own professional head roll. That's their decision, and I can't condemn it in any way, either. It's their network, so they get to set the standards. Free speech does not include any guarantee of a free national soapbox, for commenters and comedians on both the left and right.
But while the realism of the photo was indeed shocking, the concept is something we still read about to children, as both political commentary and as humor. Don't believe me? Well, I don't believe you -- because I already know you immediately recognized the title I chose for this column. Which is as good a place as any to end this on. From the chapter "The Queen's Croquet Ground," from Alice's Adventures In Wonderland, here are just a few examples of lighthearted children's fare on the subject of beheading -- in a book not only written for children, but also written as scathing contemporary political commentary that adults would recognize:
The players all played at once without waiting for turns, quarrelling all the while, and fighting for the hedgehogs; and in a very short time the Queen was in a furious passion, and went stamping about, and shouting "Off with his head!" or "Off with her head!" about once in a minute.
. . .
The Queen had only one way of settling all difficulties, great or small. "Off with his head!" she said, without even looking round.
"I'll fetch the executioner myself," said the King eagerly, and he hurried off.
-- Chris Weigant
Cross-posted at The Huffington Post
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
You are being somewhat kind to Kathy Griffin - fair enough, but I'm still pissed with her. This one act be used to forgive umpteen transgressions - we never win when we lower ourselves to the level of 45 and his crew.
An interesting perspective on Illinois politics from a local.
The Kathy Griffin roles are reversed (it is an ex-GOPer admonishing a cartoon showing a colored person tattooing a tax bill onto a white man) - but the lament that this cartoon would be used against the Republicans in Illinois, even though the perpetrator was not part of the official Illinois Republican Party.
http://www.chicagonow.com/politics-now/2017/05/the-gop-is-a-racist-organization/
I posted this under the previous article, so I will repost it here:
What is the difference between Kathy Griffin's photo of her holding a bloody head that is supposed to belong to Trump and DHSS Chief Gen. John Kelly telling Trump that he can use the saber given to him at the Coast Guard graduation on members of the press?
One used words, the other visual imagery to express the same message.
Neither should be acceptable in a modern society, yet Trump only took issue with one of the two. And Trump had no words of condemnation for Ted Nugent's comments saying Obama and Hillary deserved the same fate -- far from it!
I am not condoning any implied or direct threats of violence against anyone, but I find people gasping and clutching their pearls at something that was clearly not a true threat of violence to be overkill.
Hey CW,
I think you mean "Griffin", not "Gifford" at the start of the 2nd paragraph. I won't defend anything Kathy Lee does either, but I doubt you were just making a random declaration on something that we all agree with already.
So I cannot join in the widespread condemnation of Kathy Griffin, because I think it's pretty murky where her photo falls on this spectrum. She's a comedienne who regularly uses shock value to get a laugh.
Then perhaps you can explain to me exactly how Griffin's stunt was "funny"???
Cuz I just can't see the humor in it...
Just like I can't see the humor in Whatisname Miller holding up a bloody Obama or NOT-45 head..
It has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with what is and isn't civilized.
It's just not funny...
Having said that, the near universal condemnation of this horrid act here in Weigantia makes me all misty eyed...
But I am still hoping Paula will chime in... :D
Russ,
What is the difference between Kathy Griffin's photo of her holding a bloody head that is supposed to belong to Trump and DHSS Chief Gen. John Kelly telling Trump that he can use the saber given to him at the Coast Guard graduation on members of the press?
What's the difference??
Two things..
Specificity...
and
Barron Trump..
BARRON TRUMP THOUGHT BEHEADED IMAGE WAS HIS DAD
http://www.tmz.com/2017/05/31/barron-trump-thought-donald-beheaded-image-real/
No matter your politics, putting a 10 yr old little boy thru that trauma is just as wrong as wrong can be...
Neil,
This one act be used to forgive umpteen transgressions - we never win when we lower ourselves to the level of 45 and his crew.
Come now, Neil..
While I welcome your condemnation of this vile and hateful act, let's face reality..
This is just the tip of the iceberg that is Left Winger hate and violence...
Remember the hysterical diatribe ya'all launched into about that deranged scumbag who was yelling at two muslim women and then slit the throats of two who defended the women??? Turns out said scumbag was a Trump hating, Jill Stein voting, Bernie Sanders supporter... Funny how no one wanted to mention THAT when they were beating President Trump over the head with THAT incident..
Again, I applaud your condemnation of Griffin's vile act..
But don't delude yerself into thinking this is a one-off, an isolated incident.. This is simply the latest in a long LONG list of declarations of Left Wingery hate and violence...
In short (too late! :D ) the Left has been far surpassing the Right in the race to the bottom of the violence and hate hellhole for well over a year now..
Off topic question for any motorheads out there..
http://www.chrisweigant.com/2017/05/29/from-the-archives-the-how-many-years-war/#comment-101390
Questions of Left Wingery hate and violence aside..
http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/democrats-should-fear-the-2018-midterms/
This is why I am not worried about the GOP losing the House or Senate...
Ya'all harping on how the GOP is going to be toast is the same "Ya'all" who swore up and down that Hillary would cream Trump in a 50-State romp, that Kansas and Georgia and Montana would go blue...
In short ya'all's ability to predict election outcomes based on FACTS and reality rather then ideological servitude has been examined and has been found wanting..
Democrats are seemingly incapable of winning elections because they have no message that the American people like...
I know, I know..
"Next time!! NEXT TIME it will be different!!"
THAT is the Democrat Party's only message....
In her bubble, Kathy Griffin thought nothing was out of bounds in mocking Trump
http://nypost.com/2017/05/31/in-her-bubble-kathy-griffin-thought-nothing-was-out-of-bounds-in-mocking-trump/
Best analysis of the incident to date...
Griffin only knew she had done wrong because of the swiftness with which the nation passed its judgment on her disgusting stunt. For like all fame-hungry performers, in the end, what she wants most of all is love — and she thought she would get more love for posing for and posting that photograph.
Why would she think this? In the bubble in which she lives, in the world in which she travels, in the frame of reference in which she nestles like a baby nestling in a Moses basket, it must have seemed to Kathy Griffin that there could be no way she could go too far if the object of her unspeakable provocation was Donald Trump.
In fact, she must have believed, the further she would be willing to go, the more praise her action would be likely to engender.
And therein lies the problem. The Left has created the conditions where NOTHING is out of bounds when it comes to condemning President Trump..
Like I have always said.. The Left likes to put on aires and claim that they are above this sort of thing..
But where the rubber hits the road, the facts clearly prove beyond any doubt that the Left is just as mean and nasty and hateful and hurtful as they accuse the Right of being...
Kathy Griffin is not an aberration of the Left...
She is the epitomy of it...
But where the rubber hits the road, the facts clearly prove beyond any doubt that the Left is just as mean and nasty and hateful and hurtful as they accuse the Right of being...
Let me add that, while it appears I am condemning the entirety of the Left, I readily and with great sincerity acknowledge that there are many of that group who are honorable and sincere. Many of THAT group is represented here..
But that exception is just that. An exception that does not negate the characterization of the group as a whole..
Just as I am sure ya'all would agree that there are those on the Right who are honorable and sincere but that THAT exception does not negate the characterization of the group as a whole...
@CW,
i'm with the majority on this, KG's act sucked, and no amount of apologetics on behalf of shock comedy will make it right. as neil wrote, mean-spiritedness on that level undermines the cause of resisting this president's worst excesses. it plays into the fallacy that all sides are equally at fault for the toxic partisanship that threatens our republic. russia couldn't exploit that weakness unless it was there to begin with.
JL
it plays into the fallacy that all sides are equally at fault for the toxic partisanship that threatens our republic.
It's NOT a fallacy as the facts clearly show...
It's NOT a fallacy as the facts clearly show...
The facts are that first of all there are significantly more sides than the two that media of all stripes like to portray. Second there are major differences in which factions commit the most offenses.
I'm on the train now so my posts will be short and lack significant details.
The facts are that first of all there are significantly more sides than the two that media of all stripes like to portray.
That's an opinion from one of those significant sides.. It's NOT the opinion of someone who is, say, REGISTERED as not being of any side...
Second there are major differences in which factions commit the most offenses.
I know.. The facts clearly show that, as of the last couple years, it's the Left who have committed the most offenses..
@16,
Someday i hope you'll learn the difference between fact and opinion. How one registers to vote has no bearing on the factuality of one's statements. Baseless and offensive name calling does happen on the left, but not in the volume, intensity and frequency of the alt right.
Michale, even the most rabid lefties here can barely keep up with your trolling tendencies, and as you yourself have stated, hard core righties view your type as liberal apologists.
Baseless and offensive name calling does happen on the left, but not in the volume, intensity and frequency of the alt right.
And, as I said, that is an opinion..
It's an opinion unsupported by the facts...
You may be been correct at one time.. But not in the here and now.. The facts clearly show that, in the here and now, the vast majority of violence and baseless offensive name-calling is coming from the Left..
The Griffin incident is merely the latest example..
Michale, even the most rabid lefties here can barely keep up with your trolling tendencies,
We're not speaking of political blogs or forums.. And, as you yourself have correctly pointed other, there are several in this forum who have their own "trolling tendencies"..
I am talking about the Griffin-esque type incidents. The riots and the assaults by Trump hating Lefties.. The deranged scumbag who slit the throat of the two good Samaritans was a Trump hating Lefty..
THOSE are the people I am referring to... And there is nothing that compares to the sheer numbers of THOSE kinds of people on the Left...
If you can find me a national Right Wing celebrity who referred to Odumbo or NOT-45 as a "cockholster" (or it's equivalence) and was resoundingly applauded for it by the Right, then you would have a point..
But you can't, so you don't...
I can and will, easily, assuming someone here doesn't do so before i can get home to a computer to do the copy paste. Limbaugh says stuff like that every day; it's practically his whole shtick.
I can and will, easily, assuming someone here doesn't do so before i can get home to a computer to do the copy paste. Limbaugh says stuff like that every day; it's practically his whole shtick.
I would argue that Limbaugh is not the national celebrity that Colbert is..
But I would still dispute that Limbaugh has said anything comparable to Colbert homophobic slur...
And it would also have to be directed towards a sitting POTUS, but I'll allow NOT-45...
I am feeling generous this morning. :D
"Osama?"
"Barack the magic negro?"
When some lefty comedian calls a politician a tasteless name it's news. For Limbaugh, o Reilly or Hannity to do so, it must be Tuesday.
"Osama?"
"Barack the magic negro?"
Neither of which is comparable to a homophobic slur.. And similar to what Harry Reid said about Obama.. Though not
quite as bad as what Bubba Clinton said about Obama...
When some lefty comedian calls a politician a tasteless name it's news.
Oh now THAT is a load of crap.. The ONLY "news" it makes is the applause and Kudos that the Left Wingery heaps on said "comedians"...
Further, "tasteless" is one thing..
Downright perverse and disgusting is quite another...
You still have yet to address the plethora of riots and assaults from the Left
The Kathy Griffin video was effectively flushed down the electronic memory hole before almost anybody got to see it, myself included. What most people saw, myself included, was a still of a severed head sculpture, hoisted by a grim faced Mz. Griffin.
Professional news commentators, many of which I suspect haven't seen the clip either, are voicing their critiques, but the public is in no position to evaluate the social/political/comedic/satirical/credible POTUS threat/incitement aspects for themselves. Most responses pinging about simply reflect who people trust, not what they saw. Confirmation bias.
As I noted one column earlier, Griffin is a hard edged comic, and no stranger to bad taste. A lot her stuff goes way over my own personal taste-o'meter red line and a film featuring a severed head is likely to be another example...but maybe not. Back in the Obama day, a lot of hard edged stuff went on line for days, but at least I was in a position to judge the current menace level within USA and decide whether I was happy with the response to my perceived level of menace.
Is it possible to bloviate in a vacuum? Oh my, yes! In fact, it positively helps! I congratulate CW for not falling into the trap!
One thing everybody ought to consider is the old show biz adage "all publicity is good publicity." I don't think Giffin's latest "head shot" is going to kill her career. Not in this polarized country.
"Osama?"
And I am also constrained to point out that the Left brought THAT little gem upon itself when Democrat members of Congress referred to the GOP as "terrorists" SOLELY and UNEQUIVOCALLY because of political disagreements..
"Ya wouldn't START none!! There wouldn't BE none..."
-Will Smith, MEN IN BLACK
but the public is in no position to evaluate the social/political/comedic/satirical/credible POTUS threat/incitement aspects for themselves.....
..... That's what Democrats are here for....
There. Finished it for you.. :D
I wonder if you can comprehend how utterly elitist and arrogant you sound.. :D
The sad thing is, TS.. You are in the same bubble that Griffin is in...
No wonder you Democrats can't win an election....
College melts down over plan for white people-free day on campus
After protesters at a Washington state college called for a day without white people, a biology professor says he no longer feels safe on campus — and student activists complain they’re being vilified by conservative media.
Evergreen State College students said racial tensions have been simmering in recent weeks, but reached a boiling point when a faculty member disagreed with their plans to protest what they say is institutional racism at the Olympia campus, according to The Olympian.
Students were particularly incensed by an email that surfaced on Twitter on May 25 between Professor Bret Weinstein and Rashida Love, director of First Peoples Multicultural Advising Services. Weinstein, who is white, allegedly condemned the “Day of Absence” event that asked white people to leave campus for the day.
http://nypost.com/2017/05/31/college-melts-down-over-plan-for-white-people-free-day-on-campus/
THIS is ya'all's Democrat Party...
A professor can't go to work because his safety cannot be guaranteed..
Kathy Griffin is alive and well within the Democrat Party..
I think it is time for a new name for Schultzie -- although I'll keep "Schultzie" in my pocket for when it fits.
I think the name "Wormtongue" is now applicable. As the mad POTUS hunkers down in the WH, mocked by the world and scorned by patriots; as we find out more about his slumlord-criminal son-in-law and learn Sessions concealed yet another meeting with Kislyak; as we learn Nigel Farage is now a POI to the FBI, Wormtongue continues to carry water for the disgraceful rightwing.
Wormtongue helps sell out our country to the evil
SauronDumpy, so that Dumpy can sell out our country to Putin and Russian bankers in order to get money and pretend he's a brilliant businessman.NATO: gone. Wormtongue dances with glee -- whatever "Master" does is fine by him. After all, all those deaths in WWII happened a long time ago and peace in Europe has gone on too long!
Paris Agreement: gone. Wormtongue sneers at the world. The world sneers back.
Russian sanctions: going, going…and Russians are being given their houses back by Dumpy. They admit to interfering in our election; Dumpy says "thanks", Putin laughs, Wormtongue sits up and begs. "Spit out the bones from one of your steaks, Oh Master, and I will gratefully lick your saliva. That's how much I adore you!"
Wormtongue: nothing is sacred, truth least of all.
Paula spends a LOT of time trying to figure out what name to call people she disagrees with...
Which proves my point EXACTLY on how the Democrat Party is, in the here and now...
Wormtongue: nothing is sacred, truth least of all.
Truth???
You mean the "truth" like that deranged scumbag who attacked the muslim woman and slit the throats of her defenders was a Trump hating Bernie voter??
Is that the "truth" you are referring to???
You still haven't chimed in on Kathy Griffin....
My guess is you whole-heartedly approve of her actions and are afraid to say so....
JL,
http://www.chrisweigant.com/2017/05/31/off-with-her-head/#comment-101429
My point is proven beyond any doubt.... :D
What's the difference??
Two things..
Specificity...
and
Barron Trump..
BARRON TRUMP THOUGHT BEHEADED IMAGE WAS HIS DAD
In other words, you are agreeing with me that there is no difference.
"Specificity"? Kelly's comment was specific given the object in question. Maybe if Trump had been given a stapler or a back scratcher it would be debatable what Kelly meant when he said Trump should use "it" on the press... But "it" was a sword. Good luck convincing a court that when you told your neighbor you would use your sword on his children that you weren't making a threat!
As for Barron believing his dad was beheaded.... You just listed TMZ as your source. TMZ?!!? Seriously? That might be the funniest thing I have seen you post.
While it is a shame how these things can upset children, why was he allowed to see the image? It's not like Kathy Griffin mailed the photo to Barron. And why weren't you concerned with how threats made against Obama affected his girls? Is it because they are black or because they are girls? Oh wait, it's both!
In other words, you are agreeing with me that there is no difference.
Uh no...
"Specificity"? Kelly's comment was specific given the object in question. Maybe if Trump had been given a stapler or a back scratcher it would be debatable what Kelly meant when he said Trump should use "it" on the press... But "it" was a sword. Good luck convincing a court that when you told your neighbor you would use your sword on his children that you weren't making a threat!
A specific object.. But not a specific target.....
As for Barron believing his dad was beheaded.... You just listed TMZ as your source. TMZ?!!? Seriously? That might be the funniest thing I have seen you post.
I find nothing funny about a 10 yr old little boy being traumatized like that...
But maybe that's just the dad and the grampy in me...
And why weren't you concerned with how threats made against Obama affected his girls?
For example???
Is it because they are black or because they are girls? Oh wait, it's both!
Such an accusation is beneath you so I'll ignore it..
But I would still dispute that Limbaugh has said anything comparable to Colbert homophobic slur...
So you are saying Trump is a homosexual and that was why Colbert said what he did? You must be, because nothing about what Colbert said would be considered a slur against homosexuals otherwise. Being a "cock holster" because he has to do his master's bidding has nothing to do with his sexual orientation, and everything to do with Trump being willing to do ANYTHING that Putin tells him to do. Trump's sexual orientation had nothing to do with the comment. Therefore, you are just parroting what your Alt. Right masters have told you to say. SHAMEFUL!
Is it because they are black or because they are girls? Oh wait, it's both!
Such an accusation is beneath you so I'll ignore it..
So you aren't denying that it is the truth!
This IS fun! Now I see why you constantly make baseless accusations against everyone.
So you are saying Trump is a homosexual and that was why Colbert said what he did?
No, I am saying that Colbert used a homophobic slur..
Something I would think would bother you.
But apparently Party loyalty comes first..
Trump's sexual orientation had nothing to do with the comment.
You brought it up, not me...
So you aren't denying that it is the truth!
I am not addressing it at all other than to say it's beneath you ...
Hoo boy. The Kock brothers are gonna party tonight like it's 1899!
Fire up the coal furnaces guys, we're having a barbecue, and gather round while Mitch McConnell gets blown by the head of Duke Energy's wife!
EPA Secretary Scott Pruitt will also deliver a speech entitled, "I'm being paid well to say this."
Dow Chemical will be sponsoring a cash bar, so line up to get your shots! (Really, get your shots, because the "Hot Tub Time Machine" has actual tap water from Flint, Michigan!)
We bad. We bad. We baaaaaad! Yee Haa!
This message brought to you by the Koch Energy Fund and Republican donors nationwide who want you to know that your health and our planet mean nothing to us compared to our sons' trust funds. Choke on it.
I take the whole "Baron was traumatized" story with a whole bag of rock salt...and why would you let an 11 Y.O. watch a fetid load of dingo's kidneys like TMZ in the first place? Child abuse!
Paula-32
How 'bout "Satans Little Helper?" :-)
Better still, don't engage in pointless conversation with a Sophist - the only purpose of Sophistry is to keep the argument trolling around to infinity and beyond - for profit or hairy palmed pleasure.
We don't need a wall with Mexico. We need a bigly beautiful dome... make that 3 of them! One covering the lower 48, one for Hawaii, one for Alaska. These beautiful domes will have clean coal fired air conditioners set to 72 degrees. No global warming for us! But wait-there's more!!! Each dome will be confefed in sunscreen to shield citizens from damaging UV. Waste heat will be vented to straight to China...that' learn 'em. Pure elegance.
I the timing of the climate change annulment conference was intended to confefe Trump's exposed legal ass.
ListenWhenYouHear [4] -
Damn, thought I'd caught all of them. I started off writing this and got her last name wrong throughout, then tried to do a search-and-replace.... but one of them slipped through anyway.
Thanks for spotting it, it's been fixed. Mea culpa, everyone.
-CW
michale [8] -
I'm a big fan of wind in my face, so I've wondered about it too.
On older cars, running the AC would always waste more gas than the increased drag of having the windows open. However, I have heard that more modern cars have much more efficient compressors and that the difference is now pretty slight.
As for blasting it versus on low, there are two things, the fan speed and the temperature. Fan speed is going to be an electric drag, which increases with the speed of the fan. But that's a different system (alternator). What you're really asking is whether the AC compressor works harder to make it colder or not. I'm not entirely sure about this one. More coolant has to be forced to circulate to make it colder, but it would depend on how it is regulated. If there's no fan clutch or transmission, then the regulator is always spinning at the same speed, even when it's doing less work. As to how much of a drag this is on fuel economy, though, I don't really know. I would guess that running it colder would give you worse fuel economy, but also that it would be a much smaller difference than the difference between running the AC and not running it.
That's all off the top of my head, from remembering reading things on the whole "AC or not to AC" question. I'd go ahead and google it for more accurate info...
:-)
-CW
michale [10] -
That might make sense if there were even one lefty or Dem out there defending Griffin. So far, I haven't seen any, which undercuts the point you're attempting to make, sorry.
-CW
TheStig [44] -
I realize the spell checkers haven't caught up yet, but shouldn't that be "convfefe"?
Heh.
:-)
-CW
cw-48
Well it should! I'm spelling challenged in all languages.
Michael,
No, I am saying that Colbert used a homophobic slur..
What exactly makes Colbert's statement a homophobic slur. Why should his saying Trump's mouth best serves as Putin's cock holster than anything else be offensive to me, as a gay man? Granted, my brain will not....no,it cannot think of Trump in any sexual connotation for fear of my brain imploding on itself! But Colbert's comment wasn't about sexual orientation, or even a sexual act between two people in love....it was about control. An act of humiliation.
[42] TheStig:
How 'bout "Satans Little Helper?" :-)
Better still, don't engage in pointless conversation with a Sophist - the only purpose of Sophistry is to keep the argument trolling around to infinity and beyond - for profit or hairy palmed pleasure.
Yes, I know. Conversation with Wormtongue is definitely pointless in terms of being a meaningful exchange of ideas with someone who is arguing in good faith. But there is a peculiar pleasure to be had in getting under his skin -- at the point where he starts calling me names I do a little dance of glee. Because it is my belief he comes here purely to liberal-bait. And if Wormtongue is going to hang around liberal-baiting then he can enjoy being on the receiving end of Wormtongue-baiting.
He needs to build up his emotional callouses. These rightwing snowflakes are just tooooo sensitive and need toughening up. I'm doing him a favor, really.
My only real concern is that by lowering myself to his level of discourse, I am damaged spiritually. I am giving into weakness. I should do better as an enlightened human being.
But this Wormtongue has many times written, joyously, about HRC or Obama being "locked up". I remember that and think "nope".
But I'm sorry if it bothers you.
{43] Good covefefe work!
[44] Yep, I think Dumpy wanted to distract people from the Russia story.
[39] Listen: This IS fun! Now I see why you constantly make baseless accusations against everyone.
Yep! Doing Michale to Michale IS fun!
Wormtongue: the part where you express concern about Barron is one of your best jokes to date! I laughed out loud at you making such a statement and expecting to be taken seriously.
As Listen pointed out, there was a notable lack of concern expressed by you about the pain Obama's daughters must have experienced when they saw nooses, and burning effigies of their faither and comparisons of Michelle to gorillas and all the other charming stuff your comrades dished out, and still dish out.
Perhaps your heart bled with concern for Chelsea, who's mother was being fucking threatened by Dumpy and his cutthroat followers -- you just weren't comfortable sharing your compassion, right?
Anyway, I KNEW you would be demanding a statement from me about Kathy Griffin and you know what? I don't have to say a damned thing. And you know why? Because she has already apologized. She did the act. She caught hell. She apologized. You can "accept" the apology, or not. Its between you and her.
TS,
I take the whole "Baron was traumatized" story with a whole bag of rock salt...and why would you let an 11 Y.O. watch a fetid load of dingo's kidneys like TMZ in the first place? Child abuse!
Spoken like a person who has never raised a child..
I pity you...
CW,
I'm a big fan of wind in my face, so I've wondered about it too.
Thank you.. It's good to know.. :D
That might make sense if there were even one lefty or Dem out there defending Griffin. So far, I haven't seen any, which undercuts the point you're attempting to make, sorry.
Apparently, you haven't read your own comment section?? heh :D
You have a few who are defending Griffin right here..
Russ,
But Colbert's comment wasn't about sexual orientation
Yea, and using the N-word in referring to someone is not about race... :^/
So, you would be perfectly OK with being referred to as a stoopid cockholster and would not read ANY homophobic attack into that whatsoever, right??
Yea right.. I was born at night.. But not LAST night...
Biatch,
Wormtongue: the part where you express concern about Barron is one of your best jokes to date! I laughed out loud at you making such a statement and expecting to be taken seriously.
Of course you would laugh at a young child being traumatized...
Stuff like that is funny to you...
As Listen pointed out, there was a notable lack of concern expressed by you about the pain Obama's daughters must have experienced when they saw nooses,
And Russ never provided any examples of his accusation. I know it's useless to ask YOU to actually back up your claims, so I won't even bother..
My only real concern is that by lowering myself to his level of discourse, I am damaged spiritually. I am giving into weakness. I should do better as an enlightened human being.
Shit, biatch.. In your race to the bottom, you have already surpassed my level of discourse. Your constant need for childish and immature name calling proves that beyond any doubt....
Perhaps your heart bled with concern for Chelsea, who's mother was being fucking threatened by Dumpy and his cutthroat followers -- you just weren't comfortable sharing your compassion, right?
I'll be happy to.. Once you PROVE your accusations...
But I know you can't so I know I won't have to bother..
Anyway, I KNEW you would be demanding a statement from me about Kathy Griffin and you know what? I don't have to say a damned thing. And you know why? Because she has already apologized. She did the act. She caught hell. She apologized. You can "accept" the apology, or not. Its between you and her.
I knew it.. You won't condemn her... You are actually defending her...
I just won the bet!!! :D
One silver lining for the GOP in the Kathy Griffin ISIS saga...
New GOP TV ad features Kathy Griffin
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/congress/article153806769.html
Congrats, Griffin... You just guaranteed *ANOTHER* Democrat Special Election loss....
Way ta go!! :D
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/opinion/when-the-left-turns-on-its-own.html?_r=0
This is the Left Wingery, this is the Democrat Party of the here and now....
Michale,
If a buddy greets you with, "What's up, my nigger!?" are they making a racist slur against you?
If someone says, "Nice man boobs!" to you, are they sexually harassing you?
If someone comments on how Trump has his nose buried up Putin's ass, is that a homophobic comment? No, it's not.
As for Ted's comments, he said this at a NRA convention in St. Louis back in 2012:
"If Barack Obama becomes the president, again, in November, I will either be dead or in jail by this time next year."
So, you would be perfectly OK with being referred to as a stoopid cockholster and would not read ANY homophobic attack into that whatsoever, right??
I would love for someone to compliment me like that... Of course it would bother me to have someone say that to me. If they are saying this for no other reason except the fact that I am gay, then it would homophobic slur against me. Colbert's comment was that the only thing Trump's mouth was good for was being Putin's cock holster. He wasn't attacking Trump for being gay.
And, on another note..
Hillary Lacks the Remorse of Conscience
Oddly, she seems completely sincere, as if she believes the alternative facts she’s peddling.
I don’t want to beat up on Hillary Clinton. She thought she’d win and she lost, embarrassingly, to a man she considered deeply unworthy. At the same time she won the popular vote by 2.9 million. It would take anyone time to absorb these things emotionally and psychologically.
But wow. Her public statements since defeat have been malignant little masterpieces of victimhood-claiming, blame-shifting and unhelpful accusation. They deserve censure.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/hillary-lacks-the-remorse-of-conscience-1496359405
Why can't NOT-45 just go away...
She is doing irreparable harm to the Democrat Party...
......
....oh... wait....
Stick around!! Tell us ALL about it!!!
:D
Paula [52]
[39] Listen: This IS fun! Now I see why you constantly make baseless accusations against everyone.
Yep! Doing Michale to Michale IS fun!
It really is!
The truth is Bernie Sanders destroyed Mrs. Clinton’s chance of winning by almost knocking her off, and in the process revealing her party’s base had changed. Her plodding, charmless, insincere style of campaigning defeated her. Bad decisions in her campaign approach to the battleground states did it; a long history of personal scandals did it; fat Wall Street speeches did it; the Clinton Foundation’s bloat and chicanery did it—and most of all the sense that she ultimately stands for nothing but Hillary did it.
And there it is... In plain black and white english..
THAT is why NOT-45 lost...
NOT-45 lost because she is a crappy campaigner, a crappy American and a crappy person who cares only for herself...
"Dems da facts, jack!!!"
-Bill Murray, STRIPES
If a buddy greets you with, "What's up, my nigger!?" are they making a racist slur against you?
So, what YOU are saying is that Colbert's homophobic slur was a term of endearment??
Do you REALLY believe that???
Cuz if ya do, yer more whacked than I thought... :D
"If Barack Obama becomes the president, again, in November, I will either be dead or in jail by this time next year."
Ted Nugent!?? If you have to rely on Ted Nugent to make your case, yer case is pretty weak.. :D
I would love for someone to compliment me like that... Of course it would bother me to have someone say that to me. If they are saying this for no other reason except the fact that I am gay, then it would homophobic slur against me. Colbert's comment was that the only thing Trump's mouth was good for was being Putin's cock holster. He wasn't attacking Trump for being gay.
Is nigger a racial slur???
Yes or no...
No Left Wingery obfuscation or trying to dissect what the definition of 'is' is..
Just give me a straight YES OR NO answer.. I bet 1000 quatloos you can't...
Is nigger a racial slur???
[39] Listen: This IS fun! Now I see why you constantly make baseless accusations against everyone.
Of course, the difference is that ya'all's accusations are truly baseless, as I have proven beyond any doubt..
Whereas my accusations are ALWAYS supported by facts.
That's the difference ya'all refuse to concede, fact-based and proven though it is...
Russ,
Here's the deal.. You and BitcheyBiatch's support of Griffin and Colbert is TOTALLY and COMPLETELY based on ideology..
If Colbert had called Odumbo a cockholster and if Griffin had held up a severed head of NOT-45, you and BitcheyBitch would be condemning them hysterically, screaming to the high heavens..
So, since ya'all's opinion is SOLELY based on Party zealotry, it's an opinion that, to be perfectly honest, ain't worth much....
These are the facts that no amount of hysterical responses can erase...
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/06/02/kathy-griffin-to-address-trump-photo-alleged-trump-family-bullying.html
Awwwwww po widdle Left Wing bully is complaining of being bullied..
Waaaaa Waaaa....
Nine Whine Whine??? We need a WAAAmbulance here!!
:^/
DNC allies incensed by Clinton criticism
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/336001-dnc-allies-incensed-by-clinton-criticism
Blue on Blue!!!! CIVIL WAR!!!
:D
Love it.... :D
Hillary Clinton’s ‘excuses tour’ hits a new low
Call it the most epic “defeat lap” ever: Hillary Clinton can’t stop showing the world why she lost.
At a conference in California on Wednesday, she insisted her email mess was “the biggest nothing-burger ever” and explained that she gave those toadying Goldman Sachs speeches because, well, “They paid me.”
She also added to the list of other people responsible for her loss, insisting she inherited a mess at the Democratic National Committee — “Its data was mediocre to poor, nonexistent, wrong.”
Oops: Andrew Therriault, the DNC chief of data science in 2014-16, revealed an even more damning Team Hillary fail in a tweet (later deleted) slamming her for “bashing DNC data,” when the DNC models never had Michigan, Wisconsin or Pennsylvania “looking even close to safe. Her team thought they knew better.”
Sanctimonious, avaricious and just plain wrong on the facts: That’s the Hillary Clinton America chose not to elect.
http://nypost.com/2017/06/01/hillary-clintons-excuses-tour-hits-a-new-low/
How can we miss NOT-45 if she never will go away???
But, by all means.. Let her keep proving to Americans over and over why they made the better choice in electing President Donald Trump...
“You don’t understand... The Russians cloaked Wisconsin.
So she couldn’t find it on a map to get there and campaign there.”
-CNN Host John King
Even the Clinton News Network is getting into the NOT-45 bashing!! :D
Colleges Celebrate Diversity With Separate ‘Commencements’
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/02/us/black-commencement-harvard.html?_r=0
Segregation.....
Brought to you by the Democrat Party...
Apparently, racism IS still alive and well within the Democrat Party.... :^/
wo-time failed presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton has blamed everything and everyone other than the old lady looking back at her in the mirror for her 2016 presidential election loss. The politically irrelevant former politician began whining and complaining about her stunning loss to Donald Trump soon after Election Day, and shows no signs of letting up.
Here's a full list of all the people, organizations, government entities, and abstract concepts Hillary Clinton has blamed for her loss thus far:
http://www.dailywire.com/news/17053/sad-full-long-list-hillary-excuses-election-loss-amanda-prestigiacomo#
Keep at it, NOT-45!! Yer doing great!!!! :D
I see multiple MDDOTW awards in your future!! :D
LOS ANGELES (AP) — Embattled comedian Kathy Griffin says she’s not afraid of Donald Trump and plans to keep making fun of him but maintained that she’s sorry for a video that depicted her holding a likeness of the president’s severed, bloody head.
At a rambling press conference Friday, Griffin tearfully predicted her career is over and said Trump “broke me.” Since the video was posted Tuesday, she has lost her job co-hosting CNN’s New Year’s Eve special and had at least four comedy shows canceled. Trump, first lady Melania Trump and Donald Trump Jr. have publicly criticized the video.
Waaaaa Waaaaaaa Somebody call the WAAAAmmmbulance...
Griffin, who asserted that she has been contacted by the Secret Service, said the Trumps are “trying to ruin my rights forever.”
Griffin, 56, repeated her claim that the video was a parody, meant as a pointed comeback to Trump’s remark last summer that former Fox News Channel personality Megyn Kelly had “blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of wherever.”
“I’m not laying down for this guy,” she said in one defiant moment. “I’m going to keep making jokes about this guy.”
Which is it, moron?? Yer career is over or yer still going to be making jokes???
“Whether or not you get, or like, her artistic expression, in America, Kathy has the right to parody the president,” Bloom said. “She never imagined it would be misinterpreted as a threat of violence against Trump.”
And the Secret Service has the right... No... the OBLIGATION to come down on her like a ton of bricks...
And the American people have the right to express their disgust with Griffin and those like her..
And the people who pay Griffin for her hatred and intolerance have the right to tell Griffin to take a frakin' hike...
That's what's so great about America...
Venues in New Jersey, New York and Pennsylvania canceled November shows. The Community Arts Theater in Williamsport, Pennsylvania, posted on its website that the show had been dropped “due to the recent controversy surrounding Kathy Griffin and the concern for the safety and security of our patrons and staff.”
Sen. Al Franken also dis-invited Griffin from an event promoting his new book, “Giant of the Senate.”
“After hearing from many Minnesotans who were rightfully offended, I’ve come to the conclusion that it would be best for her not to participate in the event we had previously scheduled,” the Minnesota Democrat said Thursday, a day after he had said she was still welcome. “I understand why Minnesotans were upset by this, and I take that very seriously.”
He said what Griffin did “was inappropriate and not something that should be anywhere in our national discourse.”
How frakin' awesome is that!!!!
Griffin is getting a taste of Left Wingery tactics and MO!!
Perfect!!!!! :D
Michale,
Is nigger a racial slur???
Yes or no...
Yes and no...
You want to remove the context of how a word is used from the process of determining whether the word is being used as a slur, which is impossible to do. I realize that is the ONLY way your argument can stand on its own, but it just doesn't work that way! You know that this is true, which makes it all the more pathetic when you resort to such tactics,
And I was very clear that I was not in support of Griffin's actions and was calling you out for not condemning Ted Nugent for his comments about Obama. So once again, you have to twist the truth about what someone on here says to make your argument.
Yes and no...
1000 QUATLOOS HAS BEEN DEDUCTED FROM THE ACCOUNT OF LISTENWHATYOUHEAR AND PLACED INTO MICHALE'S ACCOUNT. THANK YOU FOR USING THE WORLD BANK OF WEIGANTIA
:D
And I was very clear that I was not in support of Griffin's actions and was calling you out for not condemning Ted Nugent for his comments about Obama.
Nugent's comments were ambiguous and equivocal and could have had a hundred different meanings, not the least of which is, if Odumbo won, Nugent would kill himself..
Comparing THAT ambiguous comment to Griffin's blatant and obvious actions simply shows your desperation...
You know that this is true, which makes it all the more pathetic when you resort to such tactics,
I am simply applying YOUR rules to my arguments..
Don't blame me if they are lame...
And I was very clear that I was not in support of Griffin's actions
“I’m happy to deliver beat down to Donald Trump — and also to Barron. You know a lot of comics are going to go hard for Donald, my edge is that I’ll go direct for Barron. I’m going to get in ahead of the game.”
-Kathy Griffin
How about now???