Islamic State's State Nearing An End
The Islamic State (also known as ISIS, ISIL, or Daesh) always differed from other radical Islamist movements in their willingness to create a "caliphate," or a geographical state of their own. At their strongest, they swept through large portions of Iraq and Syria, taking over and holding territory that at one point reached almost to the outskirts of Baghdad. But we are now at the point where the end is in sight for the group's territorial holdings. The opponents of the Islamic State have been rolling back their borders and soon will liberate all of the Islamic State's territory. The aftermath, both for the Islamic State and for the territories involved, is going to be even more complicated than the fighting has so far been. But it's now time to consider what will happen when the Islamic State no longer has a state.
The fighting is far from over, of course. The end is still months away, but it's probably not years away anymore. Two maps show the full scope of the battle. The first is from an article written years ago, and shows the high-water mark of the Islamic State's territorial holdings. The second is the Wikipedia war-tracking page, which minutely shows who currently controls what in Syria and Iraq. This map changes almost daily, it should be noted.
In Iraq, Mosul is about to be completely freed from the Islamic State. The battle for the city has been going on for eight months now, and all that is left to retake is the city's center -- everything else has now been liberated. Three pockets of Iraqi territory under the Islamic State's control will remain after the fall of Mosul: Tal Afar, Hawija, and a portion of the major road from Baghdad to the Syrian border. In Syria, the battle for Raqqa has now begun. The Islamic State is shrinking and will soon only consist of territory around the eastern Syrian city of Deir Al-Zour. This noose has been tightening for a long time, but in roughly the past two years the Islamic State has consistently lost territory. They've only gained territory once, and only briefly, when they retook the ancient city of Palmyra from Syrian forces. This didn't last long, as the Syrian forces soon returned to evict the Islamic State once again. Other than that minor short-term victory, the Islamic State has been on a steady losing streak everywhere.
But now the end of the fight against the Islamic State is in sight. The endgame is obvious: clear Mosul completely and mop up the remaining pockets of Islamic State territory within Iraq. Take Raqqa back. Then push from at least three directions towards Deir Al-Zour. Meet in the middle, and crush the Islamic State's territorial holdings for good.
That's easy to type out, but not so easy in practice. Because this isn't so much an "us against them" battle with easy-to-understand alliances, instead it is more of an "everyone against them, and once that's done we'll all start fighting each other" situation. There are so many players involved that you really need a scorecard to keep them all straight. Take just one -- Iranian militia fighters. The United States is about to be in a rather strange situation where we are allied with the Iranians on one side of a border, but fighting them on the other side of that border. This isn't the only group with such complicated dynamics, either. The United States is backing the Kurdish fighters in both Iraq and Syria, but in Syria the Kurds have also been fighting forces from Turkey -- who is, incidentally, a NATO ally of ours.
The Iranian militias have been indispensable in the fighting in northeastern Iraq. They were not allowed to join the battle for Mosul itself, but they have been clearing out dozens of villages and are now reportedly considering crossing the border to launch a quick push towards Deir Al-Zour. Iran wants to wind up controlling this entire region of Syria, but American-backed forces are also pushing towards the same route the Iranians are contemplating. So will American forces start fighting the Iranian militias in Syria, while continuing to fight alongside the same militias within Iraq? In Iraq, the use of the militias is a provocation, given their propensity to detain, torture, and kill the Sunni people in the towns they've "liberated." Some are even cautioning that there may be a civil war in Iraq after the Islamic State is eradicated there. Will the Iranians quietly withdraw from territory they fought and bled for? Or will they decide to stick around, and possibly start fighting the Kurds or just continue clamping down on the Sunnis? If any of this comes to pass, what will America's position be? We've been directly aiding both the Kurds and the Iraqi military forces, but not the Iranian militias. But the successes the Iraqi forces have had have come about as a direct result of the Iranian militia support. It isn't spoken of much in Washington, but America has essentially pushed Iraq closer to Iran in the fight against the Islamic State. So what is going to happen when that battle's been won?
Syria is even more complicated, since a multi-army civil war free-for-all is going on simultaneously with the fight against the Islamic State. To the north and northeast of the Islamic State's territory in Syria are the Kurds, who had the earliest successes against the group and retook almost the entire border between Syria and Turkey. They're the ones currently besieging Raqqa, as well. The American military has been aiding their efforts with air support. To the northwest, Turkey has entered the fight against both the Islamic State and against the Kurds we support. Turkey's initial goal was to prevent the Kurds from consolidating the entire Syrian side of the border under their control. To the west and southwest of the Islamic State are the Syrian government's forces, who have recently retaken enormous amounts of desert acreage from the Islamic State. But this has pushed them up against the American-held Al Tanf border crossing with Iraq. The United States has recently launched a few airstrikes against Syrian forces who have gotten too close to this base, in fact.
To the south and southeast of the Islamic State lies one of their remaining chunks of Iraqi territory (a border crossing and a segment of the road to Baghdad). But this is the goal that both the Americans on the border and the Iranian militias are now pushing towards, in a race to see who gets there first. Will we clash with not just the Islamic State fighters but also with the Iranians? These are the same Iranian militias we've been fighting alongside in Iraq, after all.
What all of this means is that the situation in both Iraq and Syria is going to be incredibly messy even after the last Islamic State fighter is captured or killed. The fighting is probably not going to end at that point, even after the common enemy is removed from the board. The big question is where we fit into those fights after the Islamic State is gone, but it's a question that so far isn't even really being addressed by the Trump administration. Or asked much by the media, for that matter.
As for the Islamic State itself, we're already seeing what the future holds. They are losing territory, and have been for two years. This means they don't have much in the way of victories to brag about, which hurts their ability to recruit foreign fighters. Their major sources of income are about to disappear. When they held towns and cities, they could freely tax the inhabitants. When they held oil fields, they could make millions selling the oil. Both those sources are fast drying up. The biggest unanswered question in the remaining fight against the Islamic State's territory is what will happen to the Islamic State's leadership? If they are killed or captured, it will be a major blow to the organization. But if they escape and move to other lawless areas (such as Libya, for instance), the organization will have some continuity and likely be able to continue launching terrorist attacks, even after losing their self-proclaimed caliphate.
The geographic diminishment of the Islamic State is quite likely to unleash a wave of international terrorist attacks. We're already seeing the beginnings of this wave, in Britain and elsewhere in Europe. A terrorist attack also just happened in Tehran, which is rather eye-opening. Denied their caliphate and denied their major sources of income, the Islamic State will have to shrink. But not all of their fighters will die or be captured on the battlefields of Syria and Iraq. Some of them will return to their home countries, and launch "lone wolf" terrorist attacks. Foreign recruits to the Islamic State will soon have no caliphate to travel to, so they'll likely be encouraged to launch small-scale terrorist attacks against soft targets wherever they currently are.
This isn't good news, but it should be expected. Defeating the Islamic State's territorial holdings will deny it a state. Its own title will become a lie, or at the very least a metaphor. It will become a stateless Islamic State, in other words. But this is likely not going to crush the organization as a whole, and the world should be prepared for this. It is going to lash out in response to losing its state, and we've already seen what damage it can do using only a truck or a knife. Add in a few automatic weapons and you get hundreds of club-goers slaughtered. The Islamic State's state is nearing an end. But this doesn't mean the end of the Islamic State, and we should all be prepared for what comes next.
-- Chris Weigant
Cross-posted at The Huffington Post
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
Wow. That suggests that we could see a 'Mission Accomplished' moment in the west, say, after Raqqa falls, that could taste like soggy socks not long afterward. That is, for any government inclined to such hubris.
Any intelligent leader would say, "Now we begin the most difficult part of our fight against international terrorism: to intercept and disarm those who still wish to do harm to our people, to put out of business all those who fund terrorist activity, and to improve the lives of all people who feel isolated, disenfranchised, or abused by our society, so that the pools of discontent from whence terrorists gain recruits might diminish or cease to exist. This is our task."
But I don't expect anything of the sort, so I hope no one minds if I involuntarily duck when the cork is popped on the champagne bottle at the "end of Isis" celebration.
Hey CW
Uh, I'm not sure where you are getting your information, but you've made a rather large error.
The "Iranian militia fighters" in Iraq are actually Iraqi Shiite militias backed by Iran (as in weapons, training and funding).
The fighters are not and never have been Iranian.
Iran has also been providing weapons and other aid to some of the Kurds who are fighting ISIS.
Iran does have military forces and volunteers aiding Assad in Syria in their battles with both ISIS and al Qaida "rebels".
You may also want to edit this
"To the north and northeast of the Islamic State's territory in Syria are the Kurds, who had the earliest successes against the group and retook almost the entire border between Syria and Turkey. They're the ones currently besieging Raqqa, as well. The American military has been aiding their efforts with air support."
as the US has deployed ground forces with Howitzers to aid the SDF (mostly Kurdish with some Arab fighters) outside of Raqqa.
To answer one of your "what ifs", according to Lawrence Wilkerson, Trump has supposedly recently authorized US strikes on Syrian government forces that include Iranians in Syria, which would be a radical departure from the current policy, and which would directly aid both ISIS and al Qaida "rebels"...
http://therealnews.com/t2/story:19250:Wilkerson%3A-From-Qatar-to-Syria%2C-Trump-%26-Gulf-Allies-Target-Iran
... but to my knowledge this has not been confirmed by media sources nor have any strikes occurred yet.
A
PS- the war in Syria was instigated by foreign fighters who are proxies armed and funded by the US, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Qatar. It isn't now and never was a "civil war".
Hey gang
http://therealnews.com/t2/story:19283:Liberals-Rally-For-%27Truth%27-On-Trump-and-Russia
Hey trumpling, I'm sure you will find this to be as hilarious as I did.
A
neil
delayed response to your comment from Farewell, Scott Pelley
You crack me up.
I half expected your comment to end with "Hey you kids, get off my lawn" because you come across as a cranky old man.
I truly don't understand how you can imagine that Corbyn's Labour in 2017 will be a re-run of the 1970's... so many things have changed, and your fears do not seems grounded in the current reality.
That's not to say I don't understand and remember our previous discussion about that era and how it affected you, I just don't see a replay occurring since the unions in the UK are much smaller and weaker now.
I personally think Theresa May is going to have a very bad day tomorrow and that that will be good for the UK.
Hopefully, CW will manage a column about their election (hint hint), and the polls turn out to be wrong yet again... by which I mean that turnout by the under 45 segment will be stronger than expected and the Tories lose their majority... and that May's Trump coddling gets deservedly blamed.
A
4
Oops.
"do not seem" not seems.
A
Balthy
1
"Now we begin the most difficult part of our fight against international terrorism: to intercept and disarm those who still wish to do harm to our people, to put out of business all those who fund terrorist activity"
That would involve, among many other things, ending US support for the al Qaida allied "rebels" in Syria, and taking on Saudi Arabia.
I agree we should do that, but won't hold my breath either.
"and to improve the lives of all people who feel isolated, disenfranchised, or abused by our society, so that the pools of discontent from whence terrorists gain recruits might diminish or cease to exist"
Well put, but again I agree it won't happen.
A
And now for something completely different:
Vicente Fox trolling [youtube.com] Trump.
We have entered truly weird times...
the war in Syria was instigated by foreign fighters who are proxies armed and funded by the US, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Qatar. It isn't now and never was a "civil war".
Al, I've spent some time googling that claim, and can't find a single source for it. EVERY source I've seen traces the war in Syria back to the arrest of a teenager & his friends, who, inspired by the Arab Spring, wrote anti-government graffiti on a wall in the city of Daraa. As anti-government protests proliferated, the government cracked down ever harder. Eventually, units within the Syrian military defected, organizing themselves into the first Syrian Rebel force, called the Free Syrian Army. That is the very definition of a civil war.
Afterwards, of course, being the Middle East, factions of every sort poured into Syria on both sides. Meanwhile, Isis, almost coincidentally, occupied parts of eastern Syria, as well as Iraq, and the parameters of the present conflict were set.
If you remember, we had a huge debate in this country about which, if any, faction to back in the Syrian civil war, since nearly every faction either included extremists we couldn't abide, or were unpopular with allies (i.e., the Kurds). As late as early this year, Flynn put the kibosh on a Kurdish led invasion of Raqqa, possibly because he was being paid directly by Turkey to undermine the Kurds.
So if we'd been involved in the start of the Syrian War, how on earth would we have done so? Who would have been our proxies, and where were they later, when we could have used them? That theory simply holds no water.
[7] Vicente Fox trolling Trump
And doing a very good job of it too!
BashiBazouk
7
And now for something completely different:
Vicente Fox trolling [youtube.com] Trump.
*LOL* My favorite part:
Of course, I know you are not a big water guy because you are always drinking Diet Coke, which, by the way, is not working. :)
Balthy,
Any intelligent leader would say, "Now we begin the most difficult part of our fight against international terrorism: to intercept and disarm those who still wish to do harm to our people,
How do you expect to intercept and disarm people when you support completely open borders and let anyone in this country???
Once again, you are talking out both sides of your ass...
Balthy,
Any intelligent leader would say, "Now we begin the most difficult part of our fight against international terrorism: to intercept and disarm those who still wish to do harm to our people,
How do you expect to intercept and disarm people when you support completely open borders and let anyone in this country???
Once again, you are talking out both sides of your ass...
Hay Jackass,
I personally think Theresa May is going to have a very bad day tomorrow and that that will be good for the UK.
Wanna put a wager on that!?? :D
You "personally" thought that Trump was going to have a very bad day as well..
Remember that?? :D
The facts clearly show that May is going to win and win handily..
I know, I know... Ya'all don't LIKE facts when they don't go yer way....
Wanna put your quatloos where your fingers are???
No???
Didna think so.... :D
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/general-election-polls-latest-tracker-odds/
When you have two horrendous terrorist attacks, you don't elect the people that will great terrorists with open arms..
You elect people who are actually going to CONTROL the borders and CONTROL immigration..
Did ya'all not learn a SINGLE thing when President Trump was elected???
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3748893/the-sun-says-vote-conservative-dont-chuck-britain-corbyn/
Yea... Corbyn is definitely the better choice :^/
That was sarcasm in case you missed it....
Bashi,
And now for something completely different:
Vicente Fox trolling [youtube.com] Trump.
For all ya'all's claims of hating trolling so much, ya'all LOVE trolling when it suits yer bigotry and Party zealotry...
Sad....
You crack me up.
I half expected your comment to end with "Hey you kids, get off my lawn" because you come across as a cranky old man.
I truly don't understand how you can imagine that Corbyn's Labour in 2017 will be a re-run of the 1970's... so many things have changed, and your fears do not seems grounded in the current reality.
Thanks for the ad hominem - you are usually better than that, presenting arguments I can learn from - perhaps a sign?
I can imagine what Corbyn's Labour in 2017 will do because I listen to what he says. Re-nationalization of industries is not a path I want to consider. Corbyn is the wrong person to lead the Labour Party in 2017 - he might have been perfect in 1917 but just about any other Labour leader would probably be hammering May in the polls right now.
Frankly I'm hoping for two hung elections in a row - the first resulting in May's demise and the second Corbyn's, with a a 21st Century Labour leader winning the third in about a year's time. I'm living my little la-la-land, but I can dream of a Britain with a real future.
Neil,
I don't think you have to worry about Corbyn....
But you will be disappointed..
My ear to the ground says that May is going to have a landslide victory....
Balthy
8
The first casualties in Syria were Syrian army forces and Syrian police killed by foreign fighters.
I've posted the links in previous discussions here.
And the "coincidentally" bit about ISIS moving into Syria is fantasy, as Saudi support for ISIS and their goal of regime change in Syria has been documented, including by none other than Hillary (thanks to WikiLeaks).
http://therealnews.com/t2/story:19270:Trump%2C-Israel-Back-Saudi-Power-Play-Against-Qatar
That is why Iran blamed the Saudis for the ISIS attack in Tehran.
A
13
"The facts clearly show that May is going to win and win handily.."
Once again, only idiots would call election polling "facts"... and you're too much of a wimp to make a worthwhile wager, as your history here has shown.
As for the terrorism resulting from blowback from UK interventions, and aided by the firing of 20,000 police by Theresa May, which you no doubt support (yes, sarcasm), it doesn't seem to be helping May look strong and effective... and a majority in the UK are blaming their right wing foreign policy.
A
Once again, only idiots would call election polling "facts"... and you're too much of a wimp to make a worthwhile wager, as your history here has shown.<
Well, this "idiot" called Trump's election dead on ballz accurate, right down to the EC numbers.. :D
As for the terrorism resulting from blowback from UK interventions, and aided by the firing of 20,000 police by Theresa May, which you no doubt support (yes, sarcasm
As would any good and civilized person would...
it doesn't seem to be helping May look strong and effective... and a majority in the UK are blaming their right wing foreign policy.
Actually, the people are blaming the Political Correctness that are tying the hands of UK government..
May has promised to change all that..
Which is why she is going to win in a landslide...
It seems to me the end result of the battle against the Islamic State is a reset to roughly 2014.
The fractious Iraqi federal system under Haider al-Abadi survives, but in a weakened condition. The West is content with this.
The Assad government in Syria also survives, but is on life support. Russia's client state is going to need a lot of rubles to just stand upright. Russia has a lot of experience propping up Syria, Putin is smiling, his finance people not so much.
Iran has flexed their muscles as the regional protector of Shiite interests. Iran plays the long game and sees this as a win.
The US seems to be tilting towards Turkey, as a foil to Iran. Erdogan and Trump are having a bit of a bromance, NATO is a bit embarrassed with this Franco-esque turn of events.
Saudi Arabia, or perhaps more accurately, well placed royal family/and/or royal family connections gambled on militant Islam and lost. Don't gamble unless you can afford to lose your cash. Saudi Arabia can afford the cash, but maybe not the fundamental instability of their position as living medieval, absolutist, theocratic relics. Watch this spot.
The Kurds will probably get some form of semi-autonomy in Iraq, but their situation is Turkey has worsened. The Kurds also play a long game.
What happens to the foreign fighters? How many of them are alive, and where? These guys (and gals) are the wildcards.
Anybody remember the board game Balance of Power?
https://www.livingdice.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/img_0453.jpg
The original version gamed WWI, but their was a fine Italian Renaissance variant as well. There should be a Balance of Power - Levant edition.
Once again, only idiots would call election polling "facts"...
Says the idiot who bought into the whole TRUMP IS GOING TO LOSE hysteria...
and you're too much of a wimp to make a worthwhile wager, as your history here has shown.
Ahhh a challenge!!!
OK, tough guy.. You name the wager.....
neil
17
Your comments do indeed make you seem rather cranky, but whatever. The "you crack me up" part was meant as an indicator of lighthearted ribbing, and not meant to be truly insulting.
If we can't laugh at ourselves...
... or do you actually yell at kids who walk on your lawn?
The right wing privatizations haven't exactly worked out very well (paying more, getting less, and workers shafted too), so Corbyn talking about re-nationalization of them (I think it's just rail and mail) is actually popular.
Likewise ending the tax cuts for the rich, and the privatizations in the NHS, and the resulting cuts in social services.
It still wouldn't get the UK back to the 70's.
If the polling is accurate, Corbyn is doing far better than May and the neoliberal Blairites expected, so it's possible the outcome will be exactly as you are hoping for.
I'm still hoping for better because the UK foreign policy is as bad as ours, and Corbyn has been bold about talking about taking a new approach.
One of the ironies is that without Brexit, the re-nationalizations would have been impossible... actually illegal under the laws of the neoliberal EU.
A
21
"Actually, the people are blaming the Political Correctness that are tying the hands of UK government..Actually, the people are blaming the Political Correctness that are tying the hands of UK government.."
I can back up my claim.
Can you?
A
I can back up my claim.
Can you?
By all means, back up your claim....
You mentioned something about a wager, tough guy...
No scrot?? :D
13
Did you even check out that link in 3?
A
26
No.
Actually you mentioned a wager blowhard.
Here's the link
From TRNN-
Poll Finds British Agree That UK Foreign Policy Contributes To Terrorism
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=19237
Where's yours?
A
Actually you mentioned a wager blowhard.
And you mentioned that I never want to wager anything worthwhile dickhead..
So I told you to name your wager.. And you ran away and peed yer pants....
From TRNN-
Poll Finds British Agree That UK Foreign Policy Contributes To Terrorism
Once again, only idiots would call election polling "facts"..
Nice ta meetcha... IDIOT!!! :D
hehehehehehehehehehehe
A poll from a Left Wing rag...
YEA, that's believable... :D
That ranks right up there with NOT-45 is going to win!!!!! :D
Hey gang
Here's an interview about the ISIS attack in Tehran and related terrorism with a former top Iranian diplomat who is now a professor at Princeton
http://therealnews.com/t2/story:19280:Fmr.-Iranian-Diplomat%3A-ISIS-Attack-on-Tehran-%22Managed-by-Saudi-Arabia%22
A
29
You brought up the wager and then lied about it.
I shot it down.
Your lack of creativity is not my problem.
Opinion polling is not "election polling" genius, TRNN didn't conduct the poll... they just reported on it, and the poll wasn't even remotely close.
Do you want to try again and come up with some valid arguments?
52% blamed the UK interventionist foreign policy for contributing to the terrorism they've suffered... only 13% disagreed.
Where is your link?
Did you just invent that claim about political correctness in the UK?
Why would anybody take you seriously when you just make stuff up?
Or are you too lazy to post a link?
And, have you figured out that you got all pissy about the link in 3 when it was making fun of Democrats?
I was being serious when I said you'd like it.
Are you scared to see the real left go after Dems because it shatters your establishment Republican narrative?
A
Hey gang
A Republican congressman on an apology tour for violence against a journalist... still facing an assault charge.
"My physical response to your legitimate question was unprofessional, unacceptable and unlawful,"
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40199559
A
You brought up the wager and then lied about it.
I brought up the wager and you claimed I never wager anything worthwhile..
I told you to put up or shut up..
You ran away and peed your pants...
Opinion polling is not "election polling" genius, TRNN didn't conduct the poll... they just reported on it, and the poll wasn't even remotely close.
Polling is polling, schmuck...
You are just whining because you got caught calling yourself an idiot... :D
52% blamed the UK interventionist foreign policy for contributing to the terrorism they've suffered... only 13% disagreed.
Yea and THAT makes it fact in your mind..
BWWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Are you scared to see the real left go after Dems because it shatters your establishment Republican narrative?
May only narrative is the facts, dildo...
Don't blame me because all you have is Left Wing rags.... :D
This Comey testimony is interesting. I lost count of how many times Comey flat out says the President lied. Trump's well-established history of lying will not serve him well henceforth. :)
I had wanted to keep this in the appropriate commentary...
However, Veronica had other ideas..
So.....
This Comey testimony is interesting. I lost count of how many times Comey flat out says the President lied. Trump's well-established history of lying will not serve him well henceforth. :)
BBBWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Denial is NOT just a river in Egypt... :D
Considering that Comey admitted to being responsible for one of the leaks, his credibility is not so hot...
You can spin his anyway you want to, Victoria...
But the FACTS clearly show that this is nothing less than a DECIMATION of you hysterical anti-Trumpers...
I could not have had a better day if I scripted this myself... :D
Life is, indeed, good....
"Attorney General Loretta Lynch was looking to align the Clinton campaign language with our language, which... gave me a queasy feeling."
-former Director Comey
Looks like NOT-45's well established history of lying is TOAST as well.. :D
Oh what a beautiful morning....
Oh what a beautiful day....
I've got a beautiful feeling....
Everything's coming my way....
:D
Senator McCain delivers a very long senior moment at the Senate
Intell Committee. Not one of his better days.
Hey Liz
Looks like the "Liberals" in Canada are trying to convince the Canadian public that more wars is the answer.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/06/08/cana-j08.html
I know you're too busy worrying about Trump to comment about Canadian politics... but Tar Sands Trudeau and his gang of neoliberals sure come across as rabid warmongers.
Can you think of anything better to do with the extra $6,000,000,000 they want to spend on the military just this year?
A
Age discrimination...
Shocking....
"No, not really.. I can't back that up..."
-Dr Evil
Can you think of anything better to do with the extra $6,000,000,000 they want to spend on the military just this year?
I could use a new boat.... :D
So, the BIGGEST and most relevant "bombshell" coming out of the Comey hearing is that A> Comey confirmed everything Trump said and 2> Odumbo's AG pressured Comey and obstructed the NOT-45 investigation..
Of course ya'all will pursue Lynch's Obstruction with all the vigor you pursued Trump's NON-obstruction, right???
:^/
A01
3
http://therealnews.com/t2/story:19283:Liberals-Rally-For-%27Truth%27-On-Trump-and-Russia
Hey, Punk!
I finally had the chance to check out your link. It almost seems like satire in places. Kudos to the host there too because he knows his history well. He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named indeed was NOT elected; he lost to Paul von Hindenburg, who subsequently reluctantly appointed him as Chancellor in 1933... the rest, as they say, is history.
Lots of good belly laughs in there too, and Senator Joseph McCarthy rears his ugly head... cue mental images of Roy Cohn, aide to McCarthy and mentor of Donald J. Trump, who introduced Trump to Paul Manafort and Roger Stone and his clients Anthony "Fat Tony" Salerno and Paul Castellano, whose mob controlled construction entities Trump hired to help erect Trump Tower and Trump Plaza.
Why is it that the more history changes the more it seems to stay the same? There are so many characters involved throughout history's scandals that are ever present in the scandals of today.
Anyway... I said it before and I'll say it again, there sometime seems to be not a whole lot of difference between the far righties and far lefties... the horseshoe theory of Jean-Pierre Faye. :)
33
I never claimed the poll results were a fact brainiac.
You see the difference yet?
I doubt it.
And no response to my request for valid arguments either?
Shocking.
You lied about the wager, and are now trying to wriggle free from the lie without offering anything substantive as usual... and of course, no apology for lying.
And you still can't back up your claim about May in the UK I see.
Pathetic.
Is that only three straw man arguments in one comment?
You're slipping badly.
Shoot for four next time.
A
I never claimed the poll results were a fact brainiac.
OK, douchebag... When you said that "the majority of the UK is blaming Right Wing foreign policy" you have NO FACTS to back it up...
I completely agree with you there..
You lied about the wager,
There WAS no wager, ya fraking moron!! You said I never wager anything worthwhile, so I told you to state your wager and you ran away and peed yourself like the scared little biatch you are......
And you still can't back up your claim about May in the UK I see.
Pathetic.
My "backup" will be when May wins the election... And YOU will have been completely and utterly WRONG... AGAIN...
:D
Veronica,
Anyway... I said it before and I'll say it again, there sometime seems to be not a whole lot of difference between the far righties and far lefties...
Actually, I have been saying that for over 10 years now...
And morons like you always argued that fact...
By the by... Where are all those BOMBSHELLS against Trump you said would happen!!???
BBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
"Kahn...I am laughing at the superior intellect... "
-Admiral James T Kirk
:D
I love it when I am right and you are wrong and I can rub your face in it over and over and over again... :D
Michale
35
You can spin his anyway you want to, Victoria...
It is one sentence with an opinion about Trump's propensity to lie. There is no "spin" there; the "spin" is all yours.
But the FACTS clearly show that this is nothing less than a DECIMATION of you hysterical anti-Trumpers...
I could not have had a better day if I scripted this myself... :D
Life is, indeed, good....
Your peevish neediness and naivete are on full display here. Please prattle on like this every chance you get. Just as Trump's prolific documented rants will not serve him well in the future, neither will yours. :)
Not even close, zip neck. The Professor and Mary Ann, happily ever after.
No way, atomic mouth. Gilligan was her main man. They'd be married and have six kids by now.
Gilligan was a geek, barfarooni!
You're the geek, camel breath.
Dome head.
Elf lips.
Let's give this a try. see if this transplant worked... fungoid.
Here goes. What are we on?
"G."
Here goes, gack face.
I'm ready, hose brain.
~Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Michale
45
Everything is not about you, Michale. Can't you exercise at least a little self-control and allow other posters to converse without your unhinged obstruction of the flow of dialogue?
Victoria,
Everything is not about you, Michale. Can't you exercise at least a little self-control and allow other posters to converse without your unhinged obstruction of the flow of dialogue?
If you hadn't spent the last week attacking me and telling me how Comey is going to utterly decimate President Trump and MAKING things about me, I might have been able to do just that..
But, you reap what you sow biatch...
You got your ass handed to you by yours truly and now you want to whine and cry that I am picking on you...
Further, I was content to leave this subject in the appropriate commentary where it belonged. But you had to drag things forward...
You made yer bed, Veronica.. And now yer gonna have to lay in it... All the while whining and crying and complaining how it's so unfair that you are never right about anything...
Of course, you COULD stop it all by a simple and sincere acknowledgment that you were wrong and I was right...
But you won't because yer Party bigotry won't let you...
And so it goes and so it goes.... And so will you soon, I suppose..
-Billy Joel
Not even close, zip neck. The Professor and Mary Ann, happily ever after.
No way, atomic mouth. Gilligan was her main man. They'd be married and have six kids by now.
Gilligan was a geek, barfarooni!
You're the geek, camel breath.
Dome head.
Elf lips.
Let's give this a try. see if this transplant worked... fungoid.
Here goes. What are we on?
"G."
Here goes, gack face.
I'm ready, hose brain.
~Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Once again....
I know, right.. :D
"OK, whoever is a highly evolved super-being raise your hand?? Anyone???"
"Give it a rest, Rodney.."
-STARGATE ATLANTIS
:D
Hey Kick
42
Yeah, it's funny and painful all at the same time.
Max Blumenthal is my current favorite journalist.
He (and some others) did a real number on the neo-Nazis in Finland a while back that was equally unsettling, he challenges the narrative of unnecessary wars beautifully, and has done amazing interviews and written several books about Israel that expose the many truths that our bipartisan kowtowing establishment hates.
He is very well informed.
But, if you want to see more from the paltry The Truth About Russia and Trump protest in DC, there's a slightly longer segment where he interviews the "progressive" Dem Rep. Jamie Raskin about the claims he made in his speech at the protest... two short bits were in the previous link, but the whole thing is awesome and worth a watch or listen.
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=767&Itemid=74&jumival=19247
That said, I'm still cheering for you guys to come up with some actual evidence about Trump and Russia... but I think all the energy going into it (and pushing the doomsday clock ever closer to midnight) is distracting from the things that should be the focus... the horrible policies that Trump is actually pursuing.
I think the Russia crap is only serving the interests that Democrats should be opposing... war, militarism, the misallocation of trillions of dollars, and the corporatist subservience in the Democratic party...
... and, yes, even by "independent" Bernie too.
A
PS- I think you were making fun of me a little in there, but as always, I welcome that too.
Too many fuddy duddies in this world.
44
Wow.
Now you're giving wusses a bad name.
"the majority of the UK is blaming Right Wing foreign policy" is the title of the article dingleberry.
It may even be factual. But the poll results are certainly informative, even if the warmongers you're flailing around trying to defend don't like them.
One last dig before I move on.
Are you seriously claiming future election results as a fact to justify the comment you made earlier before voting is complete?
Could you please look up the definition of that word again?
Because you're making yourself look even more idiotic than we all know you are.
(that's a compliment)
A
It may even be factual. But the poll results are certainly informative, even if the warmongers you're flailing around trying to defend don't like them.
Like I said.. You have NO FACTS to support your claim..
That's all I was saying and now you confirm it..
Because you're making yourself look even more idiotic than we all know you are.
If I look like an idiot to a total douche and a liar??
Well, you are correct..
That *IS* a compliment... :D
I know May is going to win, just as I knew Trump was going to win..
You just don't like it because I was dead on ballz right and you were, as usual, wrong as wrong can be...
Move on now... Toodles... :D
Hey neil
Just for kicks, here's what the Socialists think about Corbyn and Bernie.
Enjoy!
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/06/08/sand-j08.html
A
And the hits just keep on coming!!
Chris Matthews: Trump-Russia collusion theory 'came apart' with Comey testimony
Liberal MSNBC host Chris Matthews said Thursday the accusation that President Trump directly colluded with Russia to interfere in the U.S. election "came apart" following former FBI Director James Comey's testimony in front of Congress.
In his written and spoken testimony on Thursday, Comey said that he never felt that Trump had tried to impede the FBI's investigation into Russia, even that the president had encouraged it and he suggested that former national security adviser Mike Flynn wasn't at the heart of the investigation.
"The assumption of the critics of the president, of his pursuers, you might say, is that somewhere along the line in the last year is the president had something to do with colluding with the Russians … to affect the election in some way," Matthews said on MSNBC, following the testimony.
"And yet what came apart this morning was that theory," Matthews said, listing two reasons why. First, he said Comey revealed that "Flynn wasn't central to the Russian investigation," and secondly, he said that kills the idea that Flynn might have been in a position to testify against Trump.
"And if that's not the case, where's the there-there?" Matthews said.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/chris-matthews-trump-russia-collusion-theory-came-apart-with-comey-testimony/article/2625372
Decimation...
Complete and utter decimation of the Dumbocrat Party line...
You heard it here first.. Months and Months ago....
Vindication, thy name is Michale!!! :D
54
You still don't know what a fact is.
But your opinion on the outcome of the election is yet another straw man.
You made a specific claim you continue to refuse to support in any way.
Just like your lies about me lying... and unlike my documentation of your lies.
Geez.
You've got me pitying you again.
I do love underdogs.
A
You still don't know what a fact is.
Maybe.. Maybe not..
But as you yerself concede...
YOU HAVE NO FACTS... :D
But your opinion on the outcome of the election is yet another straw man.
Yea.. You made the same claim about the US Presidential Election... Ya remember that one, right?? The one I totally decimated ALL of ya'all in?? :D
Didn't you have to "move on"...????
I must be really under yer skin... :D
You've got me pitying you again.
Save your pity for the Democrats.. They just got their asses handed to them...
I do love underdogs.
No wonder yer a Democrat... :D
A01
52
But, if you want to see more from the paltry The Truth About Russia and Trump protest in DC, there's a slightly longer segment where he interviews the "progressive" Dem Rep. Jamie Raskin about the claims he made in his speech at the protest... two short bits were in the previous link, but the whole thing is awesome and worth a watch or listen.
I promise to watch it and comment later {want to give it the focus it deserves, and right now I'm finishing up another project and juggling things}.
That said, I'm still cheering for you guys to come up with some actual evidence about Trump and Russia... but I think all the energy going into it (and pushing the doomsday clock ever closer to midnight) is distracting from the things that should be the focus... the horrible policies that Trump is actually pursuing.
True... but, Punk, keep in mind that Trump's signing of EOs is largely symbolic and nonbinding BS. It is a lot of juggling, though, but you know how quickly the government moves... which is to say, slowly.
I think the Russia crap is only serving the interests that Democrats should be opposing... war, militarism, the misallocation of trillions of dollars, and the corporatist subservience in the Democratic party...
Okay, try this then. Think of the "Russia crap" as exactly what it is... it's a war against our country that's going on now. It's not a part of our past; it is living history that is still ongoing.
... and, yes, even by "independent" Bernie too.
*LOL* So in retrospect, so many things seem trivial at this point. Some time in the future they'll be some learning from past history, but right now labels have become immaterial.
Oh, check this out:
https://twitter.com/SethMacFarlane/status/871964391826087936/photo/1
The coalition not only includes Democrats and Independents but NPAs, Republicans, and multiple allies not contained within the borders of the United States. Trump said he assumed that when he was in Russia that he was being taped. Hmmmmm. So if that's a fact, then why did it never occur to the Trump campaign during their travels that this was still the case? Makes you scratch your head in wonder!
PS- I think you were making fun of me a little in there, but as always, I welcome that too.
Too many fuddy duddies in this world.
Oh, bonus... just kidding, I truly wasn't funning you, Punk. :)
Dershowitz: Comey confirms that I'm right - and all the Democratic commentators are wrong
In his testimony former FBI director James Comey echoed a view that I alone have been expressing for several weeks, and that has been attacked by nearly every Democratic pundit.
Comey confirmed that under our Constitution, the president has the authority to direct the FBI to stop investigating any individual. I paraphrase, because the transcript is not yet available: the president can, in theory, decide who to investigate, who to stop investigating, who to prosecute and who not to prosecute. The president is the head of the unified executive branch of government, and the Justice Department and the FBI work under him and he may order them to do what he wishes.
As a matter of law, Comey is 100 percent correct. As I have long argued, and as Comey confirmed in his written statement, our history shows that many presidents—from Adams to Jefferson, to Lincoln, to Roosevelt, to Kennedy, to Bush 1, and to Obama – have directed the Justice Department with regard to ongoing investigations. The history is clear, the precedents are clear, the constitutional structure is clear, and common sense is clear.
Yet virtually every Democratic pundit, in their haste to “get” President Trump, has willfully ignored these realities. In doing so they have endangered our civil liberties and constitutional rights.
Now that even former Director Comey has acknowledged that the Constitution would permit the president to direct the Justice Department and the FBI in this matter, let us put the issue of obstruction of justice behind us once and for all and focus on the political, moral, and other non-criminal aspects of President Trump’s conduct.
-Alan Derschowitz
It's official...
Prime Minister May has won the UK election with a clear majority.....
Correction...
Back channel sources show that May has won with a clear majority...
The official announcement will come later...
Today.... is a good day.... :D
Al,
When you're ready to have an adult conversation, I'll welcome the new tone and be only too happy to engage on any issue, domestically or internationally.
Save your pity for the Democrats.. They just got their asses handed to them.
And yet we have all taken one more step closer toward the impeachment of Donald Trump. Trump's now been called a liar by the former head of the FBI, under oath, and with contemporaneous notes as evidence. He has said that he 'hopes' there are tapes of these exchanges.
There is other evidence: Trump admitted to Lester Holt that he fired Comey because of the Russia investigation, and Comey said today that he would take the President 'at his word' about that.
Comey may not have impressed Trumpettes, but he has actually built a compelling case against Trump for Obstruction, beginning with the hint-dropping, escalating to 'letting it go' and then the odd private dinner combining the subjects of job security and 'loyalty', followed by a series of phone calls, followed by the firing, which Trump admits was done because of the investigation. Taken as a whole, it constitutes a pattern of behavior, and intent to obstruct.
Those facts aren't going away, regardless of whether Trump loyalists try to smear Comey as a 'leaker' - and what a laugh, given that some recent stories in the Times and Post have had as many as thirty sources.
BBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Balthy, you crack me up..
You are taking a pile of shit and trying so hard to convince yourself that it's chocolate pudding...
This is nothing short of a complete and utter decimation of the Dumbocrat's case against President Trump...
I admire your chutzpah, but there comes a point when even the most devoted slave must admit that they got nothing....
And you, my friend, got nothing....
Comey totally and completely devastated the Trump Collusion Obstruction narrative...
Plus I won't even mention how you totally and completely lied when you claimed Comey briefed Sessions on the Flynn/let it go issue...
I hate to kick a man when he's down and hurting...
"Yet virtually every Democratic pundit, in their haste to “get” President Trump, has willfully ignored these realities. In doing so they have endangered our civil liberties and constitutional rights."
I can only assume it is because they know that it is their own policies that usually endanger our civil liberties and constitutional rights that causes conservatives to make such idiotic claims.
How, exactly, would ignoring that past presidents "have directed the Justice Department with regard to ongoing investigations" endanger our civil liberties and constitutional rights? How? It really demonstrates their ignorance to what civil liberties and constitutional rights actually are when they make such idiotic claims as this!!!
How many investigations that they were personally connected to did the past presidents direct the DOJ on? There was Watergate; that's one!
[61] The problem with Dershowitz's breakdown is that it ignores the fact that obstruction charges were at the heart of both the Nixon and Clinton impeachments.
While impeachment charges are argued as legalisms, the fact is that it is an inherently political process. The question isn't actually, 'did he break the law?', but rather 'did he break his presidency?'. In Clinton's case, rabid partisanship on the Republicans' part drove up Clinton's approval ratings, and made Democratic Senators in particular reluctant to vote against him.
What we didn't hear - and this is notable - this morning was any full-throated defense of the President by his fellow Republicans. This doesn't bode well, this early in the process.
Kick,
Sooooo love Seth MacFarlane's tweet! From the mouth of babes! (I guess you need to know that I imagined it was Stewie's voice reading the list in my mind for this to make sense, but oh well!)
What we didn't hear - and this is notable - this morning was any full-throated defense of the President by his fellow Republicans. This doesn't bode well, this early in the process.
No..
What YOU didn't hear....
And YOU think it's notable...
Again, I admire how you can put a positive spin on such a complete and utter Democrat decimation...
But the facts are clear..
Ya'all were hoping for Comey to slay Trump and Comey ended up HELPING Trump....
"Liberal MSNBC host Chris Matthews said Thursday the accusation that President Trump directly colluded with Russia to interfere in the U.S. election "came apart" following former FBI Director James Comey's testimony in front of Congress."
It was bad enough when you were getting your stories from TMZ, but the Washington Examiner??? Wow, you really have to search deep into the garbage to find these little gems!
The very fact that this starts of claiming that Chris Matthews is "liberal" should make even someone like you stop and take notice.
The very fact that this starts of claiming that Chris Matthews is "liberal" should make even someone like you stop and take notice.
Chris I HAVE A TINGLE UP MY LEG FOR OBAMA Matthews is not a liberal???
Since when???
Oh.. That's right...
Since he said something you didn't like...
It was bad enough when you were getting your stories from TMZ, but the Washington Examiner???
Says the guy who thinks that WaPoop, HuffPoop and DailyShit are reputable sources..
How many of your "reputable" sources had to retract accusations today!?? :D hehehehehehehehe
Anyone here who says that the Comey testimony went EXACTLY as the Democrats had hoped is a liar or a moron or a total and complete Party slave...
Or any combination of the 3.....
Balthy,
EVERYONE questioned yesterday and today....
They ALL said the same thing..
There was NO pressure or NO influence to stop the Russia investigation..
Comey even testified that President Trump ENCOURAGED the investigation..
How STOOPID or utterly ENSLAVED by Party does one have to be to even CONSIDER that Obstruction charges are warranted!???
Comey totally and completely devastated the Trump Collusion Obstruction narrative.
Wishful thinking. The real investigation has barely gotten underway, and you want to suggest that it's already vindicated Trump? Good Luck with that.
Flynn, Kushner, Manafort, Carter Page, Sessions, and many others haven't testified yet. Page could get immunized and spill a barrel of beans. Many corroborating witnesses haven't even been identified, much less interviewed in public forums.
"Over? It's not over 'til WE say it is!"
- Senator John Blutarsky
Wishful thinking. The real investigation has barely gotten underway, and you want to suggest that it's already vindicated Trump? Good Luck with that.
Whatever you have to tell yourself to sleep at night...
I'll repeat what I said..
Anyone here who says that the Comey testimony went EXACTLY as the Democrats had hoped is a liar or a moron or a total and complete Party slave...
Which are you???
Flynn, Kushner, Manafort, Carter Page, Sessions, and many others haven't testified yet. Page could get immunized and spill a barrel of beans. Many corroborating witnesses haven't even been identified, much less interviewed in public forums.
How do you know that Mueller hasn't already interviewed them??
That's just it.. You DON'T know..
You don't know shit from shinola and yet you spew your nonsense as if it were fact..
Just like you said with Comey..
Oh!!! Wait til we get Comey to testify!!! TRUMP IS GOING DOWN!!!!
And you got Comey to testify and he helped Trump beyond all measure...
Face the facts, son.. You ain't got shit and you know it...
It's ALL nothing but a Dumbocrat wet dream...
And your just too enslaved by Party to see the facts staring you right in the face...
How STOOPID or utterly ENSLAVED by Party does one have to be to even CONSIDER that Obstruction charges are warranted!?
As stupid and enslaved by party as one who believes that Obstruction charges have been ruled out, I guess.
I repeat: it's too early in the process. We still don't know why Trump was so anxious to protect Flynn - while throwing his other 'satellite' advisors, including his son-in-law, under the bus, incidentally. Dinner at the Trump house could get tense after this, don't you think?
How do you know that Mueller hasn't already interviewed them?
I assume they've all had preliminary interviews with the FBI. But that's not public testimony. That's all yet to come.
This investigation hasn't even cleared its throat yet.
I repeat: it's too early in the process.
Yea.. NOW "it's too early in the process"....
PRE-Comey it was, "COMEY IS GONNA SMOKE THAT TURKEY!!!"
We still don't know why Trump was so anxious to protect Flynn -
No. You don't know that Trump WAS "anxious to protect Flynn"... You just ASSUME so without ANY facts to support the assumption...
Yer entire case is built on bigoted assumption after bigoted assumption, totally and COMPLETELY devoid of ANY facts whatsoever...
And THAT is why ya'all are WRONG each and every time..
Because you have NO FACTS...
Dinner at the Trump house could get tense after this, don't you think?
And that has exactly WHAT to do with Obstruction of Justice???
Answer: NOTHING..
Yer just throwing shit out there and hopes something sticks...
That's your entire MO..... NO FACTS, NO RELEVANCE.... Just throw shit upon shit upon shit, just because you think it makes Trump look bad...
This investigation hasn't even cleared its throat yet.
Whatever you have to tell yourself to sleep at night..
But the simple fact is, you and most every Weigantian, every DUMBOCRAT was banking a LOT on Comey burying Trump..
And Comey HELPED Trump... Immeasurably...
If you can't concede that, then it's clear you don't have more than two brain cells to rub together, that yer nothing but a mindless Party drone...
Michale
63
Back channel sources show that May has won with a clear majority...
The official announcement will come later...
"Back channel sources." How reliable are your back channel sources?
Today.... is a good day.... :D
Your naivete and gullibility are truly comical. :)
guardian predicts a hung parliament. tories may sneak by and hang on to control, but i think we can safely predict it's not going to be a great night for them.
as to the comey hearings, we really didn't discover anything new, comey just confirmed facts we already suspected, and which had already been in the news. democrats tried to twist the facts toward impeachable offenses, republicans tried to twist them toward discrediting the former director, but the facts as he reported them don't yet merit either conclusion.
JL
A [55]: read the article - sadly it was too difficult for me, so I'm confused. Ho hum.
Michale: Back channel sources I think I know which back channel - that is a very polite phrase for it my friend :)
NY [84]: Spot on. Comey was a big nothingburger. Tories are probably wetting their pants at the moment and hoping they can get across the 326 line - I think they still have a chance, but it isn't looking anything like a landslide at the moment.
JL
84
guardian predicts a hung parliament. tories may sneak by and hang on to control, but i think we can safely predict it's not going to be a great night for them.
It's looking like no tory majority.
as to the comey hearings, we really didn't discover anything new, comey just confirmed facts we already suspected, and which had already been in the news. democrats tried to twist the facts toward impeachable offenses, republicans tried to twist them toward discrediting the former director, but the facts as he reported them don't yet merit either conclusion.
Exactly. Trump's lawyer already made a few tactical mistakes in my opinion. He put out a press release full of misstatements and typos wherein he accused Comey of leaking "privileged conversations," but he's got his timeline of the Trump tweet and the New York Times story all screwed up. They're going after Comey's character with an incorrect timeline. Trump's lawyer is in way over his head.
Trump's other problem is that his attorney and the GOP talking heads are trying to push this narrative that Trump isn't a politician and is learning the ways of Washington. Utter nonsense and bad strategy. Is it just me or doesn't it seem disingenuous for Trump and his surrogates and mouthpieces to spend months saying that Bill Clinton meeting Loretta Lynch on the tarmac was improper influence but meanwhile pay no attention to Trump's ignorance? Seriously? Oh, please.