What About The House?
The Senate Democrats ended their government shutdown today, not with a bang but with a whimper. They did not achieve their stated objective, to force a vote on a bill to save the DACA program, but they did at least raise awareness of the issue in Washington, so it can't conveniently be swept under a rug for the foreseeable future. The moderates and the Democratic Senate leadership point to a rather squishy promise made by Mitch McConnell to hold a floor vote on a DACA bill at some point in the next two months, which was apparently enough of a commitment to assuage the fears of a majority of Democratic senators for now. But lost in all the recriminations is one glaring question: what about the House?
Before we get to that, though, let's take a look at where Democrats currently find themselves. The Dreamers and their advocates are pretty upset with the party, and they have good reason to be angry. When President Trump announced he was singlehandedly ending the DACA program, Democrats swore up and down it would be one of their highest priorities in Congress. They promised that they wouldn't agree to a budget unless the DACA problem was fixed by the end of 2017. Since they made those promises, they voted -- twice -- to kick the budget can down the road without addressing DACA (once in early December, once at the end of December). This was a slap in the face to the Dreamers, so they were already pretty upset with congressional Democrats even before the recent shutdown.
Their hopes were then raised by Democrats taking things to the mat last Friday, of course. Trump was so obviously bargaining in bad faith that it was impossible for anyone to deny. One day, he talked of passing "a bill of love," then two days later he unleashed a profanity-laden rant about how Norwegians were so much more desirable than people of color. How could anyone rationally negotiate with (as Chuck Schumer put it) such a quivering mass of Jell-O? The hardliners at the White House and in the House of Representatives were plainly pulling Trump's strings. Even Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell expressed his frustration with dealing with Trump, since Trump didn't even seem to know what Trump wanted in the bill. Schumer tried a last-minute dealmaking session, but Trump "couldn't take 'yes' for an answer."
So the government shut down Friday at midnight. Trump had to stay in Washington rather than hold a $50,000-a-plate first-anniversary party in Florida. All weekend long, negotiations continued, but what was noticeable was the complete absence of Mr. "Art Of The Deal" in any of it. Republicans, led by Trump, instead began demonizing the Dreamers as "illegal aliens" and Trump released an ad (personally approved, at the end, by Donald Trump) which pretty much equated all the Dreamers to evil murderers. So much for "a bill of love," eh?
Despite polling showing the public was blaming Trump and the Republicans far more than the Democrats for the showdown (bolstered by all the polls showing how overwhelmingly popular the idea has become of letting the Dreamers stay and become citizens), by the time Monday morning rolled around, Democrats were getting worried. A weekend government shutdown is one thing, whereas pushing it into the workweek would start to have serious negative implications, which would only grow as the stalemate dragged on. A group of Senate moderates from both parties had been meeting (and growing in size), and they produced a slightly-shorter budget extension than originally proposed (as a face-saving measure for Democrats) and a rather weak promise from McConnell to take some sort of action on DACA at some largely-unspecified point in the near future.
Once the government fully opens again, Congress will be right back where they were last week -- with a few differences. The biggest one for Democrats is that they did manage to secure multi-year funding for CHIP, which the Republicans have been holding hostage for the last four or five months. Because it has now been dealt with, it will cease to be a bargaining chip (pun intended) in the next go-round of budget talks. Millions of parents across the country can breathe a huge sigh of relief for that, at least.
But the big budget fights will still remain. The biggest of these is military spending versus social spending. Republicans want to add money to the deficit by shoveling even more over to the Pentagon. Democrats (to be fair) want to add money to the deficit by expanding government services here at home. Both sides have their hands tied by automatic rules that prevent such deficit spending. In the past, both sides have usually agreed to "parity" -- in other words, if you want $50 billion for the Pentagon, then we get $50 billion for everything else. This will be the biggest of the fights, because it sets the overall framework for all the smaller fights. Supposedly, Congress will be able to work all this out in the next few weeks (even though they've had over four months to do so and have made little if any progress to date).
On a parallel track, negotiations will continue over DACA and immigration policy in general. Democrats enter such talks in a weakened state, both because they caved so quickly on the shutdown and because they offered to give so much away to Trump and the hardliners in the efforts to cut some sort of deal. You can bet that this will now be the starting position for Republicans in the upcoming bargaining.
Democrats are also weakened politically, by not following through more on their shutdown gambit. The Dreamers and their champions are incensed right now, and my guess is they will not be shy about very publicly ripping into Democrats for throwing in the towel so soon. Remember, they've already been put off twice previously. And this time, the deadline (the first week in March) will be staring them in the face, preventing any more "kick the can down the road" delaying tactics.
How it all turns out will be key to how the Democrats are ultimately seen by their own base. If a DACA deal is reached in February, and it is acceptable enough to the Dreamers, then the mini-shutdown and all the delays will be quickly forgotten (if not entirely forgiven). However, if whatever deal is possible becomes so Draconian for all immigrants other than the Dreamers, then there will still be a lot of bad feelings left over afterwards. If they don't manage to get a deal at all, then Democrats could be in real trouble with a very significant portion of their base -- exactly what they don't need, heading into the midterms.
One thing Democrats do have going for them is public opinion. This could even grow as the debate moves forward, if Trump and the Republicans continue their demonization of the Dreamers (which seems destined to backfire spectacularly). Fixing DACA and letting the Dreamers stay is supported by 80 percent or more of the public. Even if the public sees Democratic efforts in this regard as somewhat ham-fisted, they also see that Democrats are working for the goal they all agree upon -- while Republicans stand adamant against that goal. That is helpful, politically, for the Democrats, but in more of a long-term sense.
But I finally return to my main thesis, because what I wonder in all of this drama is what the real outcome is actually going to be. Even if Democrats somehow convince Mitch McConnell and a big group of Republican senators to forge a bipartisan bill that both sides can live with, and even if McConnell makes good on his promise to hold a vote on it, and even if it passes with a large vote -- what will the House do?
The House, after all, is where most of the immigration hotheads are (those who scream "Amnesty!" at the drop of a hat, in other words). And Paul Ryan is not exactly anyone's profile in courage when it comes to bucking the hotheads in his caucus. The Senate passed a bipartisan comprehensive immigration bill a while back, if you'll remember. It even got a veto-proof margin in the Senate vote. But then the House (under John Boehner) completely ignored it, for years. They didn't even bother debating it, much less holding a vote on it. So what's to stop Ryan from doing the exact same thing this time around?
A reasonable DACA fix bill would quite likely get almost all the votes from House Democrats (a few might protest that the bill gives too much away to Trump and refuse to vote for it, but my guess is they'd be a small minority of the whole). It would also require at least several dozen Republican votes to pass, but there actually are Republicans in the House who can read the public polling and who realize that this is a very popular idea even among Republican voters, so it's not too far-fetched to imagine enough of them getting on board too. The Tea Partiers would rant and rave, though; that much also seems inevitable.
But what would Paul Ryan do? Would he put the bill on the floor and allow his caucus to vote their conscience on it? Would he allow a bill with mostly Democratic support (with a small helping of Republican support to get it over the finish line) to get a vote? Or would he just declare unilaterally that the bill was unacceptable and refuse to hold a vote on it? This to me seems like the weakest part of the emerging plan. Democrats got at least a weaselly promise from Mitch McConnell to act on DACA next month, but nowhere in what was agreed to today is any equivalent sort of promise from Paul Ryan. So even if a DACA fix passes the Senate next month, there is simply no guarantee that it will go any further than that -- especially if Trump is still cutting "illegal immigrant murderer" ads as background noise.
-- Chris Weigant
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
I think a lot of this is simply posturing for midterms... so follow it through to its natural conclusion, and the ads write themselves:
Time to Clean House
I am quite prepared to assume that Sen. Schumer and his team know what's what in these matters a lot more than the media's commentators do. This is inside politics, and the actual outcome will only be obvious much later on. One report I read started with a point you buried: the passage of CHIP removes a hostage from the Republicans' bunker, and DACA was not under a similarly tight deadline after which people would start to get hurt.
But - perhaps that guy was wrong, and you (and a lot of other instantaneous analysts) are right: this was a whimpering collapse by the Dem Senators, especially with the House a more obvious hold-out on any rational immigration bill.
I just don't know, and so I'm cheerfully withholding judgment for now.
John M
This is pretty much exactly where I’m at as well. As much as I’m not a big fan of Schumer’s politics I had a good deal of faith that he and Pelosi are at least effective dealmakers/political negotiators who aren’t going to let themselves be taken advantage of by the Republicans. But now seeing all these analyses painting this as a loss for Democrats, I’m just not sure. Like you though I’m trying to reserve judgement.
Why would they be so scared about the political consequences of a shutdown? Even if they were blamed, it hasn’t seemed like the Republicans paid a price for shutdowns in the past even when polling suggested the majority of people held them responsible. In 9+ months, who will even remember?
B
And even if you wanted to insist that Democrats have been blamed for past shutdowns(because polling is always wrong when it’s bad for Republicans), I doubt that it could have been much of a factor in their losses in recent years. Correct me if I’m wrong, but these things seem to have a negligible effect on election outcomes, at least if they occur many months before the elections.
I don’t think this shutdown was long enough to cause anyone any damage come Election Day. People are going to scratch their heads and try to recall what happened during the shutdown, and the truth is that NOTHING happened!
I think getting CHIP off the table was a huge victory for the Democrats, as it had more immediate consequences had it not been settled than DACA does at this point.
We have one of the federal detainment centers not too far from us that houses ICE detainees awaiting deportation. One thing that Trump and friends fail to realize is that deportation can only occur when the country of origin is willing to allow the person back into their country.
Guess what? That isn’t happening as much as it used to. Our detainment center has been at full capacity for a couple of years, holding people that no one wants. That means we are stuck paying for their care. Trump wants to get rid of everyone who isn’t a citizen, which will mean a massive economic loss when we remove hard working individuals from being productive members of our society and we have to start covering their costs!
What happens when an illegal immigrant refuses to identify where they are from? How can you send someone back to where they are from if you don’t know where they are from? The answer is that they become permanent residents in our detainment centers. Conservatives love to whine that illegals are mooching off our government; Trump is making it so they have no choice but to rely on us to care for them!
The Dreamers and their advocates are pretty upset with the party, and they have good reason to be angry.
Yep, Dumbocrats caved and didn't do dick for the illegal immigrant criminals..
Democrats swore up and down it would be one of their highest priorities in Congress.
And ya'all BELIEVED them!!! :D
Despite polling showing the public was blaming Trump and the Republicans far more than the Democrats for the showdown (bolstered by all the polls showing how overwhelmingly popular the idea has become of letting the Dreamers stay and become citizens),
ONLY if you cherry pick the polls that says what ya'all want to hear... :D
Democrats got at least a weaselly promise from Mitch McConnell to act on DACA next month, but nowhere in what was agreed to today is any equivalent sort of promise from Paul Ryan.
Yep.. And it would serve the Dumbocrats right if they got scrooed, just like they have been scrooing the GOP and the American people all these decades...
The facts are clear..
Dumbocrats caved when they saw public support fading away....
I don’t think this shutdown was long enough to cause anyone any damage come Election Day. People are going to scratch their heads and try to recall what happened during the shutdown, and the truth is that NOTHING happened!
Unlike when Odumbo shut down the government and adopted the SCROO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE/MAKE IT HURT strategy....
What happens when an illegal immigrant refuses to identify where they are from? How can you send someone back to where they are from if you don’t know where they are from?
If they refuse to identify their country of origin, then they are remanded to the country of entry point...
It's not rocket science, my LEO friend.. :D
JM,
I am quite prepared to assume that Sen. Schumer and his team know what's what in these matters a lot more than the media's commentators do.
Of course you are.. PARTY UBER ALLES
It's impossible to tell where you end and the Democrat Party begins..
this was a whimpering collapse by the Dem Senators, especially with the House a more obvious hold-out on any rational immigration bill.
Wow!! Is that a slight peek out of the Dumbocrat Party's ass???
I encourage more of this.. :D
Rabid Trump Protestor SWINGS at and SPITS on Reporter
https://youtu.be/QC36NmnLIZM
Ahhh yes.. Your "peaceful" and "tolerant" Democrats... :^/
Liberals livid after deal to end shutdown
Activist groups were angry at how the negotiations turned out, with some calling it '#SchumerSellout.'
Liberal activists are furious with Democratic senators after most of them agreed to reopen the federal government without a firm path to shielding young immigrants from deportation.
As the third day of the shutdown dawned, liberal advocates and immigration groups fired off a joint statement blasting as “unacceptable” Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell’s offer merely to hold a vote on immigration — with no promises for action from the House or White House — in exchange for Democratic votes to reopen the government. But three hours later, Democratic senators agreed to just those terms — sparking anger on the left.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/22/government-shutdown-deal-liberals-angry-357268
Dumbocrats caved...
There is simply NO WAY to describe it...
Bullshit... PROVE it..
You can't because you are full of shit..
-Victoria
Look who is full of shit now!!!! :D
Yer Dumbocrats caved, Vic.... :D
Even CW concedes this..
You lose.. AGAIN :D
Joyce and a handful of other conservatives have been pushing for the memo to be made public. They have suggested that it contains damning evidence the Obama administration used FISA (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) warrants to spy on the Trump campaign as well as his transition team ahead of the president’s swearing-in.
A FISA warrant allows U.S. spy agencies to collect information on foreigners outside the country and was reauthorized by Congress earlier this month.
Obama officials have strongly denied the claims.
Democratic lawmakers argue the Republican uproar over the memo is a last-ditch attempt by conservatives to discredit the Russia investigation and cast doubt on the people who are running it.
California Democratic Rep. Adam Schiff has called the memo “a profoundly misleading set of talking points drafted by Republican staff attacking the FBI and its handling of the investigation.”
He said it’s riddled with factual inaccuracies and said it gives a “distorted view of the FBI.”
But Joyce has hinted that the memo was so scandalous that “termination would be the least of these people’s worries” and suggested that some of the people involved might even be “prosecuted.”
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/22/republicans-hope-to-release-jaw-dropping-memo-on-surveillance-abuses.html
If the memo is nothing, WHY are the Dumbocrats so adamant about releasing it?? What are they AFRAID of!??? :D
Release the memo and let the American people judge for themselves...
Since the veracity of the facts were called into question by the hysterical and the ignorant....
“Today’s cave by Senate Democrats—led by weak-kneed, right-of-center Democrats—is why people don’t believe the Democratic Party stands for anything.”
-Stephanie Taylor, Progressive Change Campaign Committee co-founder
Let there be no doubt as to who has the FACTS (that would be me) and who has nothing but bullshit, hot air, ignorance and hysteria (that would be ya'all(NEN))...
:D
This shutdown was always going to be decided by the “blame game,” as annoying as that is to say. As each side made their arguments in recent days, Republicans had the more straightforward one—Democrats were responsible for the shutdown because they filibustered a funding bill in order to secure something else. A DACA fix is popular; shutting down the government over one is much less so, especially in many of the states Senate Democrats are trying to hold in November. The polling was beginning to gravitate in Republicans’ favor.
“I hear our numbers are dropping like a rock,” Democratic Rep. Louise Slaughter of New York told Bloomberg on Monday.
There is no compelling evidence that rejecting McConnell’s offer would have resulted in a better outcome for Democrats. Polling would have drifted further to Republicans’ side, and McConnell would have waited patiently to accept Schumer’s unconditional surrender.
No matter how ya'all want to spin it, the American people were NOT on the Dumbocrat Party's side in this..
The American people were FIRMLY and COMPLETELY behind the GOP and President Trump..
"These are the facts of the case. And they are undisputed."
-Captain 'Smilin' Jack Ross, A FEW GOOD MEN
Democrats chose to save face by accepting a less-than-“ironclad” commitment because that is what you do when you’ve made a losing tactical decision.
Dumbocrats scrooed the pooch and over-estimated their ability to connect with the American people..
That is the beginning and end of the issue..
If the memo is nothing, WHY are the Dumbocrats so adamant about releasing it??
That should read:
If the memo is nothing, WHY are the Dumbocrats so adamant AGAINST releasing it??
My bust...
Time to Clean House
Yea, that's what ya'all said in 2016..
How'd that work out for ya'all?? :D
In the past, both sides have usually agreed to "parity" -- in other words, if you want $50 billion for the Pentagon, then we get $50 billion for everything else.
What a horrible idea. We need to bring down the deficit, to the point where the debt grows more slowly than GDP. We should do that mostly with tax increases, but spending cuts should be part of it too. Of course I think the spending cuts should be mostly on stuff I don't like (starting with the military), but we should be cutting some good along with the bad at this point, so that we can get the deficit down.
Of course I think the spending cuts should be mostly on stuff I don't like (starting with the military),
Well, at least your honest about your hatred of the US Military...
Would that others could be so honest...
Billionaire Keeps Pushing to Impeach Trump. Dems Rattled...
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/us/politics/impeach-trump-democrats-tom-steyer.html
Democrats, please...please... PLEASE run on the IMPEACH PRESIDENT TRUMP platform...
It will REALLY work this time!!!! GO FOR IT!!!! :D
Womens Marcher threatens to kill Trump, Pence: ‘It’s guillotine time, b*tches!’
http://www.theamericanmirror.com/womens-marcher-threatens-kill-trump-pence-guillotine-time-btches/
Ahhh, the "peace" and "tolerance" and "respect" of the Left Wingery....
:^/
A Tale of Two Shutdowns
Interior tries to limit harm to the public, unlike in 2013.
The government shutdown continued on Sunday as Senate Democrats imitate Republican Ted Cruz’s 2013 strategy of using government funding to force a President’s hand on an unrelated issue. Mr. Cruz wanted ObamaCare repeal while Democrats want to coerce the GOP on immigration, but the budget blackmail strategy deserves to fail again. The important difference this time is that the Trump Administration is trying to limit the shutdown damage while President Obama tried to make it as painful as possible.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-tale-of-two-shutdowns-1516574251
Yep....
Odumbo adopted a MAKE IT HURT strategy.....
President Trump's administration mitigated the pain of the shutdown for the American people..
Odumbo = scumbag luser..
President Trump = awesome leadership...
" When President Trump announced he was singlehandedly ending the DACA program..."
Not to put to fine a point on it, but here's what he actually said and did.
"In effect," the president said, "I am not going to just cut DACA off, but rather provide a window of opportunity for Congress to finally act."
"We will resolve the DACA issue with heart and compassion — but through the lawful democratic process — while at the same time ensuring that any immigration reform we adopt provides enduring benefits for the American citizens we were elected to serve," Trump said."
He simply put it back in the venue where it should have been originally. The executive order that established DACA was of questionable legality. President Trump is simply allowing the LEGISLATIVE branch of government to do its job.
LWYH [5]:
Have you ever seen "Johnny Dangerously"? If not, do yourself a favor :)
https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/500x/60155057/maroni-deported-to-sweden-claims-hes-not-from-there.jpg
Have you ever seen "Johnny Dangerously"? If not, do yourself a favor :)
https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/500x/60155057/maroni-deported-to-sweden-claims-hes-not-from-there.jpg
"They're going to send me back to Omaha and I don't even live there!"
-Rube Baker, MAJOR LEAGUE II
:D
How "Trump Trauma" Is Crippling the News Media (Guest Column)
Donald Trump is staking his presidency, as he did his election, on nothing less than destroying the credibility of the news media; and the media are determined to do the same to him. This is not just a feud or a fight or a battle. It is scorched-earth warfare in which only one side can achieve victory. To a stunning degree, the press is falling into the president's trap. The country's top news organizations have targeted Trump with an unprecedented barrage of negative stories, with some no longer making much attempt to hide their contempt. Some stories are legitimate, some are not, and others are generated by the president's own falsehoods and exaggerations. But the mainstream media, subconsciously at first, has lurched into the opposition camp and is appealing to an anti-Trump base of viewers and readers, failing to grasp how deeply it is distrusted by a wide swath of the country.
These are not easy words for me to write. I am a lifelong journalist with ink in my veins. And for all my criticism of the media's errors and excesses, I have always believed in the mission of aggressive reporting and holding politicians accountable.
But the past two years have radicalized me. I am increasingly troubled by how many of my colleagues have decided to abandon any semblance of fairness out of a conviction that they must save the country from Trump.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/how-trump-trauma-is-crippling-news-media-guest-column-1077062
Michale seems on a hysterical series of rants at the moment, what do you think is bugging him (I don't bother to read the posts when they get like this)?
1. Republicans decided not to kill kids for six years?
2. 45 was AWOL during the budget negotiations?
3. Even 45's own party thinks the wall is a joke?
4. Schumer can close down the government at will and the Repulicans get blamed?
5. Reality broke through into his bubble and it is chaffing his "tighty whities"?
6. The mid-terms are coming and the numbers on the street last weekend massively exceeded 45's inauguration crowd?
7. All of the above?
“You and I both know the odds are nothing. If I thought it was likely, I’d be there no question. I hesitate in part because of my gut sense and concern that there’s no big there there.”
-Lead Investigator Peter Strzok, talking about how there is nothing on collusion vis a vis Trump and the Russians...
It's a witch hunt.. Nothing more..
Michale seems on a hysterical series of rants at the moment, what do you think is bugging him (I don't bother to read the posts when they get like this)?
Can't argue the facts because they are ALL on my side, so you have to go on a nonsensical deflecting rant.. :D
I accept your concession.. :D
Yer Dumbocrats caved, Neil.. I know it.. YOU know it.. CW knows it.. President Trump played them like a fiddle and lazy-assed criminal dreamers are going to get the boot...
EVERYONE knows it..
Next to fall will be Mueller's LET'S ILLEGALLY NULLIFY A FREE, FAIR AND LEGAL ELECTION team.. :D
How "Trump Trauma" Is Crippling the News Media (Guest Column)
It lays out quite succinctly exactly how President Trump is DECIMATING the media...
You hysterical NeverTrumpers whine and cry about President Trump's approval numbers, but the Leftist MSM *WISHES* it had President Trump's numbers.. :D
So Mueller now has Sessions testimony in the can, and Bannon is up next.
My guess on the order from here:
1. Kushner
2. Don Jr.
3. The Crook in the White House
ICE are getting really into their jobs:
https://www.theonion.com/ice-agents-hurl-pregnant-immigrant-over-mexican-border-1822307567
My guess on the order from here:
Funny how your guesses are SOLELY based on Party bigotry and are ALWAYS wrong.. :D
ICE are getting really into their jobs:
https://www.theonion.com/ice-agents-hurl-pregnant-immigrant-over-mexican-border-1822307567
How did that Democrat shutdown work out for ya?? :D
Too bad Dumbocrats couldn't protect the Dreamers..
The poll numbers were more important.. :D
The government shutdown is over. Democrats finally realized that closing the government over illegal immigration was a losing political battle. They created a needless crisis and got rolled. So who is to blame for their current predicament? Along with Charles E. Schumer and Nancy Pelosi, Democrats can put the blame squarely on the man who could have legalized the “dreamers” when he had the chance: Barack Obama.
During his 2008 campaign, Obama promised in a conversation with Univision anchor Jorge Ramos to make passing immigration reform one of his first legislative priorities, and even set a timetable. “I cannot guarantee that it is going to be in the first 100 days,” he said. “But what I can guarantee is that we will have in the first year an immigration bill that I strongly support and that I’m promoting. And I want to move that forward as quickly as possible.”
If he had wanted to act, he could have. Obama’s party controlled the House, and Democrats had a 60-vote filibuster-proof Senate majority. If Obama really wanted to pass either the Dream Act or comprehensive immigration reform, Republicans were powerless to stop him. But he didn’t do it.
Yep.. Odumbo thought TrainWreckCare was more important than Dreamers...
These are the facts....
NBC/SurveyMonkey poll: Did President-Unfaithful-Sh!thole show leadership during the shutdown? 60%: No. 37%: Yes.
Another NBC News poll says public blames for the shutdown:
Blotus: 38%
Repubs 18%
Dems: 39%
As many are pointing out: 38 + 18 = 56% for GOP being responsible for the shutdown.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/poll-democrats-trump-blame-government-shutdown-n840246?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_np
I was busy marching in DC with all those other people, joined by millions around the country/world this weekend. Then went and saw The Post which is a good movie, btw.
Didn't follow the shutdown closely, but reading things today, I'm with the folks who think it was a good move for Dems to get CHIP handled, which completes Doug Jones' pledge, and move DACA to the next round. This way GOP can't play one off the other, and if McConnell screws us it will be front and center. Which doesn't mean he won't - OR - that Ryan won't. But they would have anyway so if they're going to - since they hold the cards -- it needs to be really, really clear it is the GOP that's screwing the DREAMERS.
Oops, the leadership question is from the same poll. I saw reference to it on Twitter - and then a different story about who was to blame. But source was same, the link I provided.
Michale,
If they refuse to identify their country of origin, then they are remanded to the country of entry point...
It's not rocket science, my LEO friend.. :D
Maybe if they are caught crossing into the country illegally, but that also requires a willingness by the country of entry point to accept them back into their country. We have friends who work for ICE at the detention center. These are the issues that they are talking about being the reason that they are filled to capacity right now and have been for a while! They have people who have been in there for years because they committed a misdemeanor crime and now they have no where to send them.
ICE is way understaffed right now, as well. It is great that Trump wants to add so many more staff positions; it’s a shame that they haven’t been able to fill most of the openings they have had for years! For every opening, the agency goes through something like 30 applicants to achieve one new hire. Problem is that they just don’t have enough qualified applicants interested in the job. So either they will put ICE agents in situations where they are way understaffed, or they will lower the hiring standards to be a federal agent...both are extremely dangerous prospects!
neilm,
Never seen Johnny Dangerously. As for you question as to what has Michale going wild....I’d say #7.
neilm
28
Michale seems on a hysterical series of rants at the moment, what do you think is bugging him (I don't bother to read the posts when they get like this)?
1-7
7. All of the above.
If you've seen one of his hysterical series of rants, you've basically seen them all. While he'd like you to see things from his point of view, you could never get your head that far up your ass. :)
Michale,
From your link:
Now Kellyanne was doing a live interview with Todd from the North Lawn of the White House. Todd demanded to know why Trump Press Secretary Sean Spicer had made a "ridiculous" statement that was "a provable falsehood" about Trump's inaugural crowd being bigger than Obama's. Things turned personal when Todd laughed at Conway's explanation that Spicer was providing "alternative facts." "Your job is not to call things ridiculous that are said by our press secretary and our president," Conway said. "You're supposed to be a newsperson. You're not an opinion columnist." Conway was disgusted and knew her pushback against Todd would not get replayed on any network. Conway was sympathetic toward journalists, but here she was, trying to talk about Trump's policy agenda and getting ripped by a guy she had known for two decades. She thought it was "symbolic" of "the way we're treated by the press." Todd regretted letting his emotions show, but not the substance of his questions. He thought Kellyanne had simply run out of talking points, and he was laughing at the absurdity of the situation. The fact that it was a satellite interview, lacking the conversational cues provided by a face-to-face sit-down, made his interruptions look overly confrontational. The president called Conway to congratulate her on her performance against Todd. Vice president Mike Pence later joked to her: "Does Chuck Todd have any teeth left?" But the unfortunate phrase "alternative facts" stuck to her like tar paper. She had meant equally accurate explanations, like "two plus two equals four" and "three plus one equals four," but it quickly became journalistic shorthand for White House exaggerations and falsehoods.
Here’s the problem with this whole argument: What was being discussed were not NOT “equally accurate explanations”!
The press gets slammed for reporting FAKE news for pointing out when something being said is not true!
"Your job is not to call things ridiculous that are said by our press secretary and our president," Conway said. "You're supposed to be a newsperson. You're not an opinion columnist."
This administration wants the press to serve as their propaganda machine and nothing more! A “newsperson” is expected to report the facts to the masses, they are not to be a parrot for dishonesty. The crowds were no where near as large for Trump’s inauguration as they had been for Obama’s. But for some reason Spicer felt the need to lie because he waned to stroke the fragile ego of our president. The press did their jobs by pointing out that what was being said by the White House was not factual.
It must be exhausting trying to constantly defend Trump’s version of reality.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/22/us/michigan-man-arrested-cnn-threats/index.html
"Fake news. I'm coming to gun you all down," said the caller, who cursed and used an expletive directed at African-Americans, the affidavit said.
"I am on my way right now to gun the f****** CNN cast down .... I am coming to kill you," the caller said a second call to CNN, according to affidavit.
Trumpers.
Russ,
Maybe if they are caught crossing into the country illegally, but that also requires a willingness by the country of entry point to accept them back into their country.
Does it???
Fly them down to the country, push them out the door and then fly back home...
Simple.. :D
Russ,
ICE is way understaffed right now, as well. It is great that Trump wants to add so many more staff positions; it’s a shame that they haven’t been able to fill most of the openings they have had for years! For every opening, the agency goes through something like 30 applicants to achieve one new hire. Problem is that they just don’t have enough qualified applicants interested in the job. So either they will put ICE agents in situations where they are way understaffed, or they will lower the hiring standards to be a federal agent...both are extremely dangerous prospects!
I completely agree with you..
Do you support giving ICE more money for Border Security??
Why don't Democrats??
The crowds were no where near as large for Trump’s inauguration as they had been for Obama’s. But for some reason Spicer felt the need to lie because he waned to stroke the fragile ego of our president. The press did their jobs by pointing out that what was being said by the White House was not factual.
Yes, you have ONE example..
But what happens with the PRESS says something that is not factual..
OVER AND OVER AND OVER again..
You ONLY complain about lies when it's a GOP'er who is doing the lying..
You DON'T complain when a Dumbocrat who is doing the lying..
That proves to me that you don't care about lying..
You just use it as a political bludgeon..
So, ya'all's complaints about lying have absolutely NO credibility..
If you've seen one of his hysterical series of rants, you've basically seen them all. While he'd like you to see things from his point of view, you could never get your head that far up your ass. :)
And yet, you called into question the FACT that the Dumbocrats caved and I bitch-slapped you to hell and back.. :D
Face the facts, Victoria..
You were WRONG....
Michale,
Do you support giving ICE more money for Border Security??
Why don't Democrats??
You are missing the real problem here: we have plenty of people being detained simply for entering the country without proper documentation. People who came here on student, work or some other type of visas, made lives for themselves here, and now we are just tossing them away for what reason?
ICE doesn’t need more money if they cannot staff the open positions they already are budgeted for. Giving them millions of dollars to cover the salaries for new positions that aren’t being filled is just wasting money. Budgets should be created based on needs; not campaign promises!
Just throwing money at the department so it looks like you are being tough on protecting our borders may make for good campaign bullet points claiming how tough you are on illegals, but it doesn’t do any good in the real world!
Michale,
Yes, you have ONE example..
But what happens with the PRESS says something that is not factual..
Actually, with Trump, we usually have ONE example every 6 hours...
When the press says something that is not factual and they get called out on it, the vast majority print a correction. They admit that they were wrong. Trump doubles down when he is shown to be lying about something! Mistakes can be forgiven. Dishonesty doesn’t get off so easily.
And yet, you called into question the FACT that the Dumbocrats caved and I bitch-slapped you to hell and back.. :D
Isn't it precious how Mugshot Michale claims his spin are facts? His desperation rivals that of Ignorant Tool Devin Nunes. :)
BKF [25] -
Sorry for the delay in posting your comment. From now on, you should be able to post comments and see them here instantly.
Just don't post more than one link per comment, as multilink comments also get automatically held for moderation. But from now on, you should be good to go.
And, once again, welcome to the site.
-CW
BKF -
And just had to say you're technically right about Trump's stated purpose for tanking the DACA program. But hey, at this point, it really has morphed into something else...
-CW
BFK -
I don't even want to know what that stands for, by the way.
President Trump is simply allowing the LEGISLATIVE branch of government to do its job.
In reality, President Trump's stance on the DACA program and the role of the legislative branch in resolving the status of the DACA registrants has been anything but consistent and so cannot be trusted on any given day.
There has been too much water under the bridge on this issue to believe that the president ever simply meant to let Congress do its job.
Welcome to the board! I hope your voice here will be one of reason and cogent argument and that you will resist the urge to participate in the more juvenile aspects of this excellent blog.
Elizabeth Miller - "I don't even want to know what that stands for, by the way."
LOL! Those would be my initials. BKF. I use them whenever possible for my user name, and in my maker's mark on the knives that I make. (Avocation vs vocation)
"There has been too much water under the bridge on this issue to believe that the president ever simply meant to let Congress do its job."
Two suggestions -
1. Apply Occam's razor. It seems like he meant what he said. I think that will bear out in the next 6 weeks or so.
2. Wait and see.
I agree that Mr. Trump is a moving mark and find that aspect of his behavior kind of refreshing. The ideology that has infected DC has made it nearly impossible to practice compromise, which is of course essential to effective government. Mr. Trump is a pragmatist, and will adjust his position based on the latest data. What we're seeing is not a politician at work, but a businessman who simply wants to be effective.
Thanks for the welcome. I certainly intend to be reasonable, reasoning, and respectful. I'm a refugee from scottadamsblog. The trolls have invaded and laid waste to all over there.
Chris:
You are correct in that it has morphed (mutated, twisted, distorted...) into something else.
That's kind of the problem though, isn't it? When biases are so strong, truth and honesty can be left behind.
From my perspective, I see a president who is in the process of changing the toxic DC environment and introducing at least the potential for compromise and effective government.
"Sorry for the delay in posting your comment."
No problem. Glad to have stumbled on your blog. Enjoying it so far.