Caring About Ukraine
How much does America care what happens in Ukraine? That is the question that is at the heart of how this crisis is going to play out politically, here at home. So far, there's no real clear answer. It's hard to ascertain, mostly because events on the ground are changing so swiftly. Americans are still forming their opinions rather than having long-held ideological positions to fall back on. Ukraine has never been a close ally of America historically, unlike other European countries such as Britain and France. We don't really have a close relationship that stretches back centuries, in other words. This is the biggest reason why the American public's opinion is so malleable right now. To put it another way, if Russia had tried to invade and annex parts of Scotland and England, we'd immediately know how we felt about it -- there wouldn't be any question at all.
Throughout history (like virtually every other country in Europe), Ukraine has seen plenty of changes over time. Even in the modern post-World War II era, the country has seen its borders redrawn more than once. Most recently, Russia reclaimed the Crimean peninsula, claiming that since it had historically been part of Russia, therefore it should be part of Russia once again. The crisis today is centered on two regions in the east of Ukraine (on the Russian border), where Vladimir Putin seems to want to rerun the playbook he used to snatch Crimea. He's claiming the region is more Russian than Ukrainian, and therefore logically belongs within Russia. But this time he's going to face stiffer consequences than he did with the forced annexation of Crimea, so he seems to be moving slower and more cautiously (at least for now -- the situation on the ground could change even while I am writing this).
Putin's first move was the announcement that Russia is recognizing the two regions as independent nations. A separatist war has been raging there for years now, and the Russian-backed rebels have taken and held a chunk of both Luhansk and Donetsk. Russia has now moved military into these rebel-held areas. This means Russia is now openly fighting on the separatists' side rather than merely covertly doing so (which has already been happening throughout the conflict). Putin likely reasoned that since no fighting had to take place for him to make this move, the West wouldn't consider it a full-blown invasion. It was a cautious and canny move, when compared to the all-out invasion that he could have already started by now. But whether it will be a precursor to such a larger strategy or whether Putin will decide this is enough is still a very open question.
It did take President Joe Biden and Western Europe aback, and at first there was a reluctance to call Putin's chessboard move an "invasion." Today, however, the decision has been made that it does indeed constitute an invasion, since Russian military forces are openly moving into Ukrainian territory (under titular control of Ukraine, but actually under the control of the separatists). Putin's next step is pretty obvious -- he would invent (through a false-flag propaganda operation) a pretext designed to give him his casus belli, and then he would throw the weight of the Russian armed forces against the Ukrainian forces who hold the rest of Luhansk and Donetsk. If successful, Russia would wind up absorbing the two regions the same way they absorbed the Crimea, taking another big bite out of Ukrainian territory and sovereignty. This will be true even if Putin stops and does not launch a total invasion and occupation of the rest of Ukraine.
President Biden has achieved remarkable success in uniting Western Europe. Now is not the time for squabbling among the allies, obviously. Biden successfully restored the ties among NATO that got seriously frayed under Donald Trump, and this is now paying off by allowing Biden to present a unified face to Putin and Russia. Sanctions have already been levied, and will increase in severity soon. Both Biden and Europe are still holding back the most severe of these sanctions, as leverage to convince Putin not to go farther than he already has.
For once, large parts of the Republican Party are supporting Biden's efforts. Not all of them, but the entire party didn't automatically assume a knee-jerk reaction that anything a Democratic president did was wrong and should be denounced. A lot of Republican politicians are old enough to remember the Cold War, and they still remember how anti-Russian America's foreign policy has traditionally been since World War II. They should, since the GOP defined itself as being more anti-communist than Democrats for a half-century or more.
Of course, Republicans are still nitpicking, but they don't have a lot of credibility. The Senate has been discussing a Russian sanctions bill for months now, but no bill has passed. So they can't tell the voters how better their party's position is, since they haven't agreed upon one yet. Add to this the fact that some in the right-wing media world have actually been openly taking Putin's side in all of this, and you can see the Republicans are pretty fractured on what to do and what to support. Some are backing up Biden's moves, some are calling for stiffer sanctions, some are calling for less involvement, but nobody (that I am aware of) is arguing we should send American soldiers to protect Ukrainian territory.
Which brings me back to the American public. Americans are generally for supporting democracies around the world and fighting against autocracies, but that support only goes so far. At this point, it certainly doesn't include sending American fighting men and women halfway around the globe (to a country most Americans couldn't point to on a map) to fight and die for the abstract concept of democracy and diplomacy. Putin is well aware of this.
Americans are (for the most part) fine with sending advanced weaponry to the Ukrainians, so they can more effectively fight their own battles. Americans generally support standing up to Putin... to a point. If Russia does take over Ukraine, Americans will likely also support steep sanctions against Russia and its leaders... at least at first.
The big issue -- which President Biden is well aware of -- is what the public is going to think when all of this geopolitical maneuvering hits them hard at the gas pump. That is going to be the real measure of the public's support. Gas prices are already high and Biden is already paying a political price for that. What happens if they skyrocket? Or even just go up 25 percent or so? If this is seen as a very temporary problem that will not extend for years, then the public might grumble but still accept it. But if Putin digs his heels in and the sanctions get incredibly tough then this situation could last for quite a while. And if there is no end in sight to high energy prices then the public is quickly going to sour on the entire project.
That seems (to me, at least) to be the limit of how much the American people care about what happens in the Ukraine. Them losing the Crimea didn't impact domestic politics much, after all. Most Americans probably won't care all that much what ultimately happens in Luhansk and Donetsk either. Sure, we like to see our president taking a strong stand on the world's stage, but we also don't want to see American soldiers returning in body bags. We stand in the abstract for democracy and against might-makes-right land grabs, but we also don't have a long and storied history with the people in question (as we do with other countries in Europe). We do like to see America "leading the free world" again and we would no doubt enjoy seeing Vladimir Putin wind up with a big black eye at the end of it all, but paying two or three bucks more for a gallon of gas is not something we're prepared to do to make that happen -- at least not for any extended period of time.
As I said, the situation is fluid and things are changing rapidly. Public opinion hasn't really gelled yet into one strong stance or another. Events will, to some extent, dictate what Americans are going to personally have to put up with here at home. But my guess is that the ultimate answer to the question of how much Americans really care what happens to Ukraine is going to be: "Some... but not all that much."
-- Chris Weigant
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
CW
For once, large parts of the Republican Party are supporting Biden's efforts. Not all of them, but the entire party didn't automatically assume a knee-jerk reaction that anything a Democratic president did was wrong and should be denounced.
Have they not convinced you thoroughly enough yet that they're prattling useful idiots? Give them time, CW, because Vladimir's pandering property and holster, Benedict Donald, is once again singing the praises of his puppet master Putin. How long will it be before the spineless rubes join in?
*
There is no bottom to this treasonous piece of shit; when you think he may have finally hit bottom, he slithers to a deeper depth of depravity... and the gullible rubes follow right along.
today donetsk, tomorrow jacksonville.
of course you know, the only sanction worth a damn would be for UEFA to move the Champions League final from Moscow to Kiev - or maybe somewhere even deeper into Ukraine, like Odessa. they may have to invade just to get a ticket!
Well, I think Americans along with the West should care because the US and its NATO allies helped a lot to make it possible for a leader like Putin to rise to power.
Shortly after the Soviet Union collapsed and fledgling democratic ideals were just beginning to strengthen in Russia, the US and its NATO allies decided that now would be a good time to expand NATO right up to Russia and the former USSR's doorstep. That was straight out of the 'kick them when they're down' philosophy and the school of bad timing.
And, the US and its NATO allies continued to foster the dream of further expansion to places like Ukraine, even knowing that Ukraine would be ready for that just this side of never.
The US and NATO line was repeated over and over again that sovereign nations being able to choose their alliances was sacrosanct. What about the idea that alliances could choose which country could join them?
Diplomacy was destined to fail because the West could not bring itself to even understand Russia's legitimate security concerns. Of course, this assertion is debatable.
The US should care enough to flesh out that debate.
So... Russia invading Ukraine is our fault?
"Take off, ya hoser"
-strange brew
Liz,
Why do you insist on taking Putin's side in this??
Sure, Russia has legitimate security concerns with NATO on his door step..
But that doesn't give him the right to go to war and take Ukraine by force, does it??
I am with JL on this..
vick,
There is no bottom to this treasonous piece of shit; when you think he may have finally hit bottom, he slithers to a deeper depth of depravity... and the gullible rubes follow right along.
And yet, so many good things happened for this country under President Trump..
And, under the last 18 months of President Trump's term, ZERO American soldiers died in Afghanistan...
Under yer moron, Biden.. 18 American soldiers killed.. All because of BIDEN'S incompetence..
Biden is allowing Putin to carve up Ukraine and likely take over the whole country...
So, who really is the treasonous piece of shit, eh??
From all the available FACTS... It's Joe Biden..
And add incompetent and senile to that as well..
That's yer boy, Biden..... :^/
Liz,
Interesting..
#1 is what you call, lemme find exactly what you said..
"Engage in real political discussion"...
Is that comment from vick what you would call engaging in "real political discussion"??
Of course not..
Because ya'all don't WANT "real political discussion".. Ya'all want to lambaste your enemies, call them all sorts of names and spew baseless and fact-less diatribes against people who think differently than ya'all do..
THAT is what ya'all want here..
And then you get pissy when someone comes in here and does the EXACT same thing, except AGAINST your politics and your ideology and your political cronies...
Like I told JL a bit ago..
I am but a mirror image of what ya'all are about...
If you don't like what Weigantia™ is in the here and now, then take a good look at people like vick and cad and rush and the lot of them..
Because my posts and comments are simply a mirror image of their post and comments..
I simply do it more and better than they do...
"Just the facts, ma'am"
-Sgt Joe Friday, DRAGNET
rush,
You are here to agitate and post comments meant to anger us enough - by using rhetoric and half-truths to upset the reader — so that we feel the need to defend our positions and correct your lies. But you aren’t interested in the debate.
Lots of corporations hired/recruited online agitators to keep people engaged on their message boards back in the AOL era of the internet. I cannot think of any other explanation for why CW allows you to turn his site into a portal right-wing propaganda regurgitation.
I’ve always known that you are too smart to believe the bullshat that you post. You present arguments that have to be worded in just a way to twist it to appear to be true. That sort of mental gymnastics required to make some of your arguments sound believable requires intelligence to craft. But, sadly, you have gotten lazy in your old-age. It’s like you aren’t really trying anymore. It’s clear that you just want to get your numbers in and that’s all.
Reconcile your first paragraph with your third..
Because your third paragraph PROVES that it is YOU who you describe in your first paragraph...
Like I told Liz above, rush...
I simply hold up a mirror.. If you don't like what you see in the mirror, maybe you should change the way YOU comment here in Weigantia™...
Liz,
Heh. Because, everyone know, Calvin is the only one armed with the facts. It remains infuriating.
I can't say this often enough..
PROVE me wrong...
If you question my facts, then POINT OUT THE FACTS you question..
NONE of ya'all can EVER do that..
Ya'all whine and cry and bitch and moan and claim I have no facts, yet ***NONE*** of ya'all can point to facts that are NOT facts..
Why is that??
Ya'all's problem is your echo chamber has been upset by an intrusion of facts and reality and ya'all don't like it...
Ya'all's freewheeling bash-fast and name-calling fest has been turned upside down by a guy who does the freewheeling bash-fest and name-calling fest AGAINST yer Party and yer politicos and yer ideology BETTER than ya'all ever could..
But instead of actually having YOUR OWN facts or what not, ya'all whine and cry to the moderators or stamp your feet and cry "I DON'T LIKE THE WAY YOU COMMENT!!! WAAAAA WAAAAA WAAAAAA" or you be like cad and "ignore" my comments...
You people got two choices..
Either make me WANT to leave or WANT to change my commenting habits by actually BESTING me in actual debate and discussion you CLAIM you want...
Or just live with it..
Those are your two choices...
But you can see how whining and crying and doing the whole personal attacks thing works out for ya'all, eh??
I mean, all THAT does is simply generate MORE comments from me...
cad's "ignoring" me??
Generates MORE comments from me..
Ya'all saying how wrong I am without actually PROVIDING any facts that prove this is so??
Generates MORE comments from me..
Ya'all seeing the picture here?? Ya'all finally getting a clue on what is what here???
"The choice is yours. But.. Choose wisely.."
-Knight, INDIANA JONES AND THE LAST CRUSADE
OK... On to Ukraine...
Buckle Up: This is Just the First Step
Russian President Vladimir Putin’s decision to recognize the so-called Luhansk and Donetsk Peoples Republics as independent states is not an end but a beginning.
His decision opens the door to several more moves that could further erode Ukraine’s security and advance Putin’s project of rebuilding a Russian empire. NATO, the EU, individual European countries and the United States and Canada, must respond.
The recognition of these Russian-manufactured statelets as “independent” is not in itself surprising. Putin did this before with two parts of Georgia (the Abkhazia and South Ossetia regions) and holds the card of potential recognition over Moldova’s Transnistria as well. And, of course, he outright annexed Crimea.
What is notable is the explicit rationale Putin gave to this step in his long and emotional February 21 speech: Putin considers Ukraine to be part of Russia, rather than a sovereign and independent state. He therefore considers Ukrainian independence, complete with its own armed forces, as a military threat to Russia, as if Ukraine is an armed insurgency. Ukraine’s relations with the West, including provision of lethal defensive arms, means that Russia itself is under attack. He imagines that Ukraine – which gave up its nuclear weapons under a Russian security guarantee on which Russia reneged – might actually acquire nuclear weapons with Western assistance to threaten Russia!
https://cepa.org/buckle-up-this-is-just-the-first-step/
Putin LOVES it when Democrats are in power..
He got his Nord Stream 2 pipeline approved by Biden!!
Get that?? Biden cancelled the US Keystone pipeline but APPROVED Putin's pipeline...
Putin knows he can walk all over Biden and the Democrats...
Putin saw FIRST HAND the incompetency and utter disregard for military SOP and acceptable battle prosecution displayed Biden and the Democrats in Afghanistan...
So, Putin KNEW that he would have no problem waltzing into Ukraine...
OK, people.. Here's where ya'all get to change your ways.. Chart a new path for Weigantia™
Above are facts and fact-based opinions..
Challenge the fact-based opinions with facts of your own..
Added bonus if you can do so without any personal attacks..
Balls in yer court, Lizians..... Make it happen or go home.. :D
Putin’s actions going forward will not stop with recognition of these small territories. This step now becomes a new premise for further Russian military action.
The newly “independent” states have now formally invited Russia to station military forces on their territory to defend against Ukrainian aggression, and Putin last night ordered forces into the area, Reuters reported. Russia’s veneer of deniability for its presence in Donbas has been lifted (its troops have been there for years), and now it will be uninhibited in beefing up its military presence.
Russia will continue to engineer fake attacks from Ukraine to justify massive “retaliation.” If Putin can succeed in engaging Ukrainian forces as they seek to defend themselves against Russian provocations, he can escalate the conflict into a larger war engaging far more of the nearly 200,000 troops and equipment he has amassed in and around Ukraine.
Russia will have recognized all of the Luhansk and Donetsk regions as independent, yet Russian-led forces only control portions of these territories at the moment. This makes Ukraine an “occupier” of the non-Russian controlled areas, and provides a justification for a further land-grab by Putin to take all of these two regions, if he wishes. This in itself would create direct return fire by Ukrainian forces, which Putin would claim as an attack.
Unlike Biden in Afghanistan Putin is executing a flawless military precision plan..
For Biden in Afghanistan it was a withdrawal.. For Putin, it's an invasion..
Biden royally scroo'ed da pooch with HIS military plan in Afghanistan..
From all indications, Putin is executing HIS plan flawlessly in Ukraine..
Although it's early, knowing what we know about Biden and his military (lack of) prowess, it's clear that Putin is going to walk all over Biden...
The European Union and United States (largely in order to keep Germany on board) have demurred from imposing new sanctions on Russia solely because of its military threats and extortionist behavior. The rationale is that sanctions should be a deterrent and deploying them takes away the deterrent effect. Whether or not that rationale ever made sense, it is now overtaken by events. Devastating sanctions must be imposed against Russia now, based on its most recent steps, before it embarks on even larger aggression.
Militarily, the United States and NATO allies need to get far more serious about helping Ukraine defend itself. The US has increased security assistance to $650 million and sped up the delivery of equipment. But the US and allies have also pulled their trainers who were embedded with Ukrainian forces, and many Western embassies have relocated from Kyiv to Lviv, even in the absence of any Russian attack. These send all the wrong signals to both Ukraine and to Russia.
Hell, Odumbo and the Democrats didn't even want to give offensive weapons to Ukraine.. All Democrats wanted to send was blankets and medicine...
And NATO?? My gods, NATO is saying to Ukraine, "We know you are going to win, so we're going to pull our our embassies out of Kiev.."
Biden is repeating all the stoopid, bad and militarily unsound mistakes in Ukraine that Biden committed in Afghanistan..
Democrats simply AREN'T leaders... Especially in war time...
It's really THAT simple..
NATO needs to make an immediate statement that it rejects Russia’s recognition of these territories, that it has an abiding interest in Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, that it is extending the alliance Membership Action Plan to Ukraine (consistent with the Rasmussen Formula), that it welcomes steps by individual allies to assist Ukraine with strengthening its defensive capabilities, and that it will provide further assistance to this friendly country as an alliance as and when possible.
With President Putin’s speech today, there can be no more illusions. We are facing a dictator who is launching aggression against his neighbors from the alleged injustice of being denied an empire ruling over other people. We have been through this before. It will be difficult, but we must pull ourselves together to defeat this kind of aggression.
While it says NATO, make no mistake..
This is the US vs Russia..
And the US needs to be forceful in it's denunciation of Putin's actions..
Biden needs to remind Putin that he has the US Military (woke and useless though it is) that he can send to fight directly against Russia forces...
But, Biden won't do that.. Because Biden is afraid of Putin... Biden is afraid of the Democrat Party and what the Party will say if he deploys American troops...
It's really that simple..
So Biden will let Putin have Ukraine, lock stock and barrels..
Awww right.. There you go people...
FACTS... Fact based opinions.. ON TOPIC facts and fact based opinions...
Ya'all have run out of excuses...
I'll wait a bit and see if ya'all actually want on-topic rational debate or discussion??
Or if ya just want your echo chamber back where you can wallow in your President Trump Derangement Syndrome and attack Republicans and other politicos you hate without any repercussions..
So, let's wait and see which ya'all REALLY want..
But don't wait TOO long.. :D
Much has been made of the West's "unity" on the issue of sanctions..
But there are 2 things wrong with that claim..
First, the sanctions have been watered down to keep Germany on board.. Germany, due to economic concerns, is more within Russia's sphere of influence on this issue. So Germany is going to balk at the hard hitting sanctions that really WILL bite Russia on the arse..
Secondly, sanctions are only useful as a DETERRENT... They are a bluff, of sorts... Once the line is crossed and sanctions are imposed, sanctions lose ANY deterrent value whatsoever..
So, any sanction-based "unity" evaporates as a plus once sanctions are imposed..
Which is where we are at now..
Why Putin Is Outfoxing the West
Russia’s president is willing to take risks his opponents would never consider
https://www.wsj.com/articles/putin-outfox-west-vladimir-ukraine-invasion-soviet-dreams-kyiv-moscow-authoritarian-human-rights-abuses-11645471567?mod=djemalertNEWS
It's not really taking a risk if one knows the calibre of his opponent..
Putin knows the competency (or in this case, lack thereof) of Biden..
So, it's NOT a gamble if Putin knows he is going to win...
As Western leaders struggle to respond to Vladimir Putin’s unexpectedly dramatic challenge to the post-Cold War order in Europe, the record so far is mixed. The West has assembled something approaching a united stance on the limits of the concessions it is prepared to make and on the nature of the sanctions it is willing to impose should Mr. Putin choose war. Neither hyperactive grandstanding in Paris nor phlegmatic passivity from Berlin has prevented the emergence of a common Western position. This is an accomplishment for which the Biden administration deserves credit.
Yet this is a defensive accomplishment, not a decisive one. As Mr. Putin demonstrated in his speech Monday, the Russian president is still in the driver’s seat, and it is his decisions, not ours, that will shape the next stage of the confrontation. Russia, a power that Western leaders mocked and derided for decades (“a gas station masquerading as a country,” as Sen. John McCain once put it), has seized the diplomatic and military initiative in Europe, and the West is, so far, powerless to do anything about it. We wring our hands, offer Mr. Putin off-ramps, and hope that our carefully hedged descriptions of the sanctions we are prepared to impose will change his mind.
Putin is in control and Putin knows it..
Putin has Germany up his sleeve and knows that the most biting of sanctions are off the table...
Afghanistan told Putin ALL Putin needs to know about Biden, so Putin is not worried about what Biden or the Democrats can do..
The Progressives in the Democrat Party have rendered Biden and the Party impotent in the face of a power-hungry dictator..
"Talk to Putin.. He'll respond to reason." the Progressive Democrat Party dictates...
Biden and the Democrat Party of the Neville Chamberlain of the here and now...
The West has two problems in countering Mr. Putin. The first is a problem of will. The West does not want a confrontation with Russia and in any crisis the goal remains to calm things down. That basic approach not only makes appeasement an attractive option whenever difficulties appear; it prevents us from thinking proactively. When Russia stops bothering us, we stop thinking about Russia.
The second is a problem of imagination. Western leaders still do not understand Mr. Putin. Most of them see that he is not just another colorless timeserver who thinks that appointing a record number of female economists to the board of his central bank constitutes a historic accomplishment. They are beginning to see that he is in quest of bigger game and that he means what he says about reassembling the Soviet Union and reviving Russian power. But they have not yet really fathomed the gulf between Mr. Putin’s world and their own—and until they do, he will continue to confound their expectations and disrupt their agendas.
And therein lies the problem with Biden and the Democrats..
Like their DEFUND THE POLICE policies, Biden and the Democrats think that everyone is on their page and all it takes is the right message to point that out and everyone will fall in line.. Criminals.. Scumbags.. Cop killers... Putin...
They just need to see the light and everything will be fine..
Democrats and Biden simply cannot fathom that there are people that simply DON'T like what Democrats stand for..
In Putin's case, he is using Biden and the Democrats as useful idiots.. Idiots who unknowingly HELP Putin's agenda..
It's like that old GET SMART episode with Max's and 99's wedding..
CHAOS wanted CONTROL to do something so CHAOS kept killing CONTROL agents until CONTROL did what CHAOS wanted CONTROL to do..
Putin kept pushing and prodding, worked thru the Democrat Party to sow hate and divisive polices (DEFUND THE POLICE etc etc) until Biden and the Democrats did exactly what PUTIN wanted...
WOKE'erize the US Military so that the US Military CANNOT respond forcefully in Ukraine...
Biden and the Democrats are Putin's useful idiots..
Mr. Putin is, first and foremost, a gambler who is accustomed to taking large risks against long odds with a cool head. He is not infallible by any means, but he has years of experience in taking calculated risks, defying the odds, and imposing his will on stronger opponents. Like Napoleon Bonaparte, he can surprise and outmaneuver his opponents because he is willing to assume risks they would never consider, and so to attack in times and ways they can neither imagine nor plan for.
As I said.. From Putin's perspective, it's not gambling if you know your opponent's cards..
And Putin KNOWS that Biden and the Democrats are holding a busted flush..
Beyond that, Mr. Putin is a Soviet nostalgist. He is the product of a system in which power produced truth and truth reinforced power. Soviet power rested on lies that state power imposed on society as unquestionable truths. If Comrade Stalin said that the sun was green and the sky was pink, his ability to impose such outrageous falsities on a captive society only demonstrated and reinforced the extent of his power. Exposing Mr. Putin as, by our standards, a liar does not weaken him at home or, in his view, in Ukraine.
In the same way, accusing Mr. Putin, even accurately, of planning or committing atrocities may weaken him among human-rights activists in the West, but it may strengthen him at home and in Ukraine. Stalin’s well-earned reputation for utter ruthlessness did not undercut his power. Letting the world know that Mr. Putin has a kill list for Ukraine is more likely, Mr. Putin may believe, to reduce resistance to his rule in Ukraine than to boost it.
Mr. Putin is an immensely skilled ruler, the most formidable Russian figure since Stalin, but he has his problems, too. Russian power remains limited by material and demographic constraints—and the rise of China is a geopolitical factor that no ruler in the Kremlin can permanently afford to ignore. If Western leaders can overcome their post-historical parochialism and develop coherent strategies for the actual world as opposed to the world of their dreams, effectively countering Vladimir Putin is an eminently achievable goal, though in no way a simple or a trivial one.
It's rather ironic..
The enemy has one of the most ruthless and effective leaders in history and the US has one of the most weakest and incompetent rulers in history...
Not a recipe for success...
You can bet that, had there been no fraud and cheating in 2020 and President Trump was in the Oval Office where he belongs, Putin wouldn't be taking the actions he's taking now..
The only question now is how much of Europe will be left in 2025 when President Trump resumes his duties as President Of The United States..
There ya go people.. More than a baker's dozen of on topic comments with FACTS and opinions based on those facts..
Still waiting for all the "debate and discussion" ya'all CLAIM ya'all want...
Don't be shy... Step up... Take yer best shot... :D
OK.. So no one really actually wants rational debate and discussion..
Not even vick who claims she is "always here"... So much for THAT lie, eh vick?? :D
OH well, OK.. Onward we go.... :D
NATO chief Stoltenberg says Russia ready to expand invasion of Ukraine
NATO allies have deployed thousands of troops to former Soviet satellites like Poland and Romania and placed more on standby. The alliance has more than 100 fighter jets operating in the region and more than 120 NATO ships at sea, from the high north to the Mediterranean, he said.
“Every indication is that Russia continues to plan for a full-scale attack on Ukraine. We’re seeing the ongoing military buildup,” Mr. Stoltenberg said. “They promised to step back but they have continued to step up.”
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/feb/22/nato-chief-stoltenberg-says-russia-ready-expand-in/
Having military forces in place does absolutely NO GOOD unless the US has the will to use them...
And US/NATO has made it completely clear to Putin that there is no will to actually fight and protect Ukraine...
Putin can re-establish the old USSR borders with impunity and Biden and the Democrats don't have the competence nor the will to stop Putin...
The NATO leader welcomed the decision by alliance members — including the United States — to impose punishing levels of economic sanctions on Moscow. In the end, Mr. Stoltenberg said he wasn’t particularly surprised by Mr. Putin’s scheme to take over Ukraine.
“This is exactly why we have been warning about this for months,” Mr. Stoltenberg said. “Russia has done what we expected and what we warned against.”
The sanctions are far from "punishing".. And, since Germany is not on board for real actually punishing and lasting sanctions???
Putin knows he can outlast anything Biden throws at him..
Putin knows that Biden is in a precarious political position with Biden's own Party...
In this, Putin holds the full boat and Biden has a busted flush...
"Crimea River?" Ouch. i think we should have a policy on your ukraine jokes, and call it "Donetsk Dontell"
Only one with so utterly deranged a sense of humor would treat pie based government as if it were a joke.
Get real ingredients.
EAT PIE!
Only one with so utterly deranged a sense of humor would treat pie based government as if it were a joke.
Present company excepted, of course.. :D
Joshua,
So... Russia invading Ukraine is our fault?
"Take off, ya hoser"
-strange brew
Sigh. I really hate it when you pull a Michale.
I didn't think I needed to explain my point about providing a bit of history. Something about learning from our mistakes, maybe?!
Double sigh.
And, as for YOU, Michale, let me know when you want to engage in a serious discussion.
Oh, wait ... that will happen just the far side of NEVER!
Leave me alone.
I thought you two knew that I am Putin's biggest fan!
GIVE ME A FREAKIN' BREAK!
And, while you're doing that, grow up.
I've had more cogent discussions on Facebook, for crissakes.
Sigh. I really hate it when you pull a Michale.
WOW... That's a helluva compliment you just gave JL... :D
And, as for YOU, Michale, let me know when you want to engage in a serious discussion.
This is EXACTLY what I am talking about, Liz..
You have more than a DOZEN comments that are ALL about a "serious discussion"...
But yer problem is you define "serious discussion" as anything that YOU agree with..
That's been the ENTIRE problem in Weigantia™... The definition of "serious discussion" is whatever everyone agrees with..
Trump is bad... THAT is a "serious discussion"
Republicans are bad... THAT is a "serious discussion"...
And so on and so on and so on..
But when someone comes along and upsets the apple cart... Points to FACTS that show how bad Biden and the Democrats REALLY are... THAT is not a serious discussion...
To quote you..
"GIVE ME A FREAKIN' BREAK!"
I give you more than a dozen comments that promote a REAL serious discussion, not the faux ditto head crap that passed for "serious discussions" here in Weigantia™ during my absence...
Which simply proves that Ditto Head yea uh huh... yea... yer right... uh huh uh huh is all you REALLY want..
This is exactly why I win every actual serious discussion and debate here..
Because NO ONE comes to the table armed with ANY facts..
Just Left Wing definitions on what the meaning of 'is' is...
:^/
I accept ya'all's concession..
AGAIN...
I thought you two knew that I am Putin's biggest fan!
Well, that's what things look like from this side of the table, Liz...
The only question now is how much of Europe will be left in 2025 when President Trump resumes his duties as President Of The United States..
Whatever is left, Trump will be sure to finish them off. And, then the real fun will begin.
As we have discussed before...
Yes.. In Putin's mind, Ukraine in NATO is a real security concern..
But Putin's mind is stuck back in the glory days of the USSR...
Ukraine is it's own sovereign country now.. And if it wants to join NATO, it has that right..
Pure and simple...
NATO has never given ANY country legitimate reason to fear NATO expansion...
This is the cold hard fact of the issue..
NATO expansion is ONLY a threat to Putin's expansion... Putin wants to rebuild the USSR..
NATO says NO....
NATO is on the side of the angels..
End of story...
America and Americans have always had a tough time admitting mistakes or taking any responsibility for what they have had a big hand in making. NATO expansion is a prime example of that.
Consequently it has been very hard to learn from history or from those mistakes, obviously.
Whatever is left, Trump will be sure to finish them off. And, then the real fun will begin.
Except for the fact that, under President Trump, NATO grew STRONGER.. President Trump forced NATO members to step up and pull their own weight..
Of course, that all stopped when Democrats and Biden came to power..
Under Biden and the Democrats US = NATO... NATO can't stand without the US...
America and Americans have always had a tough time admitting mistakes or taking any responsibility for what they have had a big hand in making. NATO expansion is a prime example of that.
What mistakes were made???
Offering country's the protection of an alliance??
How is that a mistake???
Consequently it has been very hard to learn from history or from those mistakes, obviously.
Except, of course, if there were no mistakes made..
Under THOSE facts, everything becomes clear..
What do you have against NATO???
Ukraine is it's own sovereign country now.. And if it wants to join NATO, it has that right..
NATO has a right to admit whatever country it wants to admit and to deny admission to any country it wants.
Ukraine will NEVER be ready to join NATO!
Except, of course, if there were no mistakes made..
Yep. That is what I'm talking about, in a nutshell. Ahem.
I have already explained why I thought NATO expansion was a mistake. But, you don't read my comments, do ya? :(
Because the expansion went practically right up to the former USSR's doorstep at a time when it had just collapsed and needed help from the West and was just at the very beginnings of democracy building.
History could have been so different, in a better sort of way!
Hello?
Michale,
What do you have against NATO???
Nothing. Nothing at all. I love NATO. Always have.
Remember, I started following Biden and American politics in 1987 BECAUSE of my interest in US foreign policy and global affairs. I am an internationalist in the truest sense of the word.
While NATO has made mistakes - who hasn't - I believe it to be an absolutely indispensible institution.
So, that question you pose is one better directed to your hero.
NATO has a right to admit whatever country it wants to admit and to deny admission to any country it wants.
Ukraine will NEVER be ready to join NATO!
That's not up to you to decide.. That is up to Ukraine and NATO to decide..
Because the expansion went practically right up to the former USSR's doorstep at a time when it had just collapsed and needed help from the West and was just at the very beginnings of democracy building.
So???
A Russia NOT under Putin's control has nothing to fear from NATO..
You don't HONESTLY believe that Putin is a legitimate ruler, do you??
How Putin finagled and bent the laws out of shape to remain in power long enough to CHANGE the law so he COULD remain in power indefinitely..
Putin is EVERYTHING you accuse President Trump of being..
Which is why I am perplexed that you take his side on the issue of Ukraine..
History could have been so different, in a better sort of way!
Yes, but we go with the history we have not the history we wish we had..
And, right now, Putin is trying to recreate the USSR in a cold war mold..
And the US should do it's utmost to stop him..
Hello?
Apologies.. I am tearing down our old jacuzzi to make room for the new one..
http://mfccfl.us/OldJacuzzi.jpg
It's a tough slough what with my recent surgery and all..
While NATO has made mistakes - who hasn't - I believe it to be an absolutely indispensible institution.
Which mistakes has NATO made??
From where I sit, a soldier who has WORKED and BLED under NATO auspices and seen NATO in action up close...
The ONLY mistake NATO has made in recent history is to trust Biden to do right by NATO in Afghanistan..
That's really the only mistake NATO has made to date...
Which mistakes has NATO made??
Still not reading my comments, I see.
Putin is EVERYTHING you accuse President Trump of being..
Cut from pretty much the same cloth, too. :)
Which is why I am perplexed that you take his side on the issue of Ukraine..
I can see why you are perplexed. You are not understanding one word I write.
Stop wasting my time. I am done here. Though, knowing me and how much of a sucker for punishement I quite obviously am, I'll be back.
Still not reading my comments, I see.
No, I am reading them..
You claimed NATO expanding right up to the old USSR's doorstep was a mistake..
But you don't provide WHY you think that's a mistake..
I was with the military during the heady time of the collapse of the USSR... I speak from personal experience when I say that was the BEST time to expand NATO...
Again, I point out... Russia sans Putin has NOTHING to fear from NATO...
NATO is ONLY a threat to Putin's plan to reconstitute the old USSR...
That's why I am perplexed on your claim that expanding NATO is a "mistake"...
Cut from pretty much the same cloth, too. :)
Not really.. But YOU believe it's the case...
Which makes your support of Putin in the Ukraine issue VERY puzzling..
Lemme ask you this....
What are your thoughts if Putin moves into Poland and tries Ukraine-esque tactics there??
Russia has Kaliningrad which is perfectly positioned to strike into Poland or Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia..
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kaliningrad,+Kaliningrad+Oblast,+Russia/@54.2314112,19.6311338,7z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x46e33d8d4b7c21a9:0x5050960016126ed3!8m2!3d54.7104264!4d20.4522144
This fits nicely into Putin's designs to re-make the USSR...
What are your thoughts on that???
These countries that have thrown off the yoke of Soviet oppression DESERVE to self-determine their own destiny...
If Putin is allowed to succeed in Ukraine, you can bet that Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are next on his hit list..
And if Biden allows Putin to steamroll over Ukraine, you can bet that China will take that as a go-signal to take Taiwan...
And ALL of this happens with the backdrop of the US midterm elections...
I tell ya, it really can't get much worse for Joe Biden and the Democrats, eh??
I can see why you are perplexed. You are not understanding one word I write.
Stop wasting my time. I am done here. Though, knowing me and how much of a sucker for punishement I quite obviously am, I'll be back.
OK... So we are in agreement...
This ISN'T about having rational discussions about current on-topic events..
It's all about preserving an echo chamber that can RAH RAH Democrats while ignoring the facts and the reality..
Hay, I am good ta go either way...
Just want to make sure I am dancing to the proper tune, eh??? :D
And here I thought we were having a transformational moment here... :D
OK So, since there is no incentive to remain ON TOPIC, let's talk about the racist SCOTUS Nomination process...
Biden interviews 3 Supreme Court candidates: Jackson, Kruger, Childs
Biden will announce his pick before the end of February, the White House says
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-interviews-supreme-court-candidates-jackson-kruger-childs
Selected from only TWO PERCENT of the availability..
The percentages dictate that the chances of a quality and competent nominee present in ONLY 2% of the availability pool is vanishingly small...
These countries that have thrown off the yoke of Soviet oppression DESERVE to self-determine their own destiny...
If Putin is allowed to succeed in Ukraine, you can bet that Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are next on his hit list..
And if Biden allows Putin to steamroll over Ukraine, you can bet that China will take that as a go-signal to take Taiwan...
Looks my claim was prescient...
Chinese media accidentally posts CCP rules on Russia-Ukraine coverage, hint at Taiwan takeover
A Xinhua News Agency editor said Russia was needed to solve the 'Taiwan issue'
Chinese news media posted instructions to social platforms about how to approach coverage on Ukraine, including a note of China’s need for Russian "support" with Taiwan.
One outlet appeared to accidentally post guidelines on what should and should not be published, while an editor from another outlet weighed in with guidance on language and approaches that he believed necessary in walking a fine line.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/chinese-news-media-rules-russia-ukraine-coverage
Looks like China is going to make a move on Taiwan....
Biden and the Democrats are SOOOO toast in November....
@liz,
i know you were being more nuanced than simply casting blame, but a discussion of what the US and NATO might have done differently to prevent Russia's current actions, goes right along with mistakes made in the Treaty of Versailles. yes, the allies could certainly learn some lessons about how not to be sore winners, but that's a discussion you have in 1946 after the nazis have been crushed, not in 1938 when they've just annexed the Sudetenland.
JL
vick said Texas was going blue....
Texas early voting data suggests Hispanic vote shift to the GOP continues
'It will be Hispanics who keep Texas red,' says Ivan Andarza, spokesman for Hispanic Republicans of Texas
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/texas-early-voting-data-hispanic-shift-gop
BBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Now THAT was funny!! :D
Who knew that vick was such a comedian.... :D
i know you were being more nuanced than simply casting blame, but a discussion of what the US and NATO might have done differently to prevent Russia's current actions,
That's the point I was trying to get across..
WHAT mistakes has NATO made in the here and now???
Liz seems to believe it's a mistake to expand NATO??
WHY???
NATO has never instigated hostilities and never had ANY expansionist designs on world power..
NO COUNTRY that is civilized and had/has designs on expanding their territory contrary to world order has EVER been given cause to be concerned about NATO expansion...
The ONLY countries that are concerned about NATO expansion are the AXIS OF EVIL... Countries who want to wage war on the neighbors.. Country who want to posses by conquest that which they cannot possess by diplomacy and negotiation....
It's like the groups that want to defund the police..
WHY do they want to defund the police?? Because they want to commit crimes without LEO interference..
Those countries that oppose NATO expansion want to be free to rape and pillage their neighbors without NATO interference..
NATO are the good guys... ANYONE who opposes NATO expansion are the bad guys...
I can't dumb it down any more than that...
NATO are the good guys... ANYONE who opposes NATO expansion are the bad guys...
I can't dumb it down any more than that...
Allow me to rephrase...
Any COUNTRY or GROUP that opposes NATO expansion are the bad guys....
Joshua,
This piece is about why Americans and America should care about what is happening in Ukraine.
I gave one reason why they should both care.
I said nothing about blame and, as a rule, I don't play that game. Thought that might have been clear enough after fifteen years worth of comments here.
Michale,
Liz seems to believe it's a mistake to expand NATO??
WHY???
No, Liz believes that it was a mistake to expand NATO in the early nineties right up to the edge of the former Soviet Union, just after the USSR had collapsed and a fledgling democracy in Russia was trying to take shape.
In fact, I have argued on more than one occasion that it would be worth having a debate about offering admission to NATO to Russia. But, that was a long time ago and that time has passed, seemingly forever.
Is that clear enough for you?
But, this is how you ALWAYS operate - by constantly and consistently putting words in our mouths and completely and, I would say, purposefully misunderstanding and misinterpreting just in the name of being argumentative for the sake of argument.
I have precious little time for that nonsense. (I happen to off work today and stressing myself out over a few things and being here today helps, funnily enough)
@liz,
as i said, i was aware you weren't really casting blame. but again, this is the absolute wrong time to have a discussion of Russia's legitimate concerns, because right now putin's doing quite a bit of illegitimate conquest.
JL
No, Liz believes that it was a mistake to expand NATO in the early nineties right up to the edge of the former Soviet Union, just after the USSR had collapsed and a fledgling democracy in Russia was trying to take shape.
WHY??
Why is expanding NATO (the good guys) to counter JUST SUCH AN OCCURRENCE of Russia/USSR designs on world dominance??
If Russia was truly expanding into a democratic institution, then they would have no cause to fear a NATO expansion??
Put another way...
Why would Italy fear an expansion of ALLIED influence in the aftermath of WWII?? If Italy was truly contrite and had forsaken it's fascist ways, there is no cause to fear allied expansion...
It's only if Italy wanted to return to it's fascist ways would it fear an Allied expansion in the theater of operations...
NATO are the good guys.. There is no reason to fear an expansion of NATO unless those that fear such are the bad guys...
But, this is how you ALWAYS operate - by constantly and consistently putting words in our mouths and completely and, I would say, purposefully misunderstanding and misinterpreting just in the name of being argumentative for the sake of argument.
"There you go again..."
-Saint Ronald Reagan
Making things personal... I am simply pointing out your own words and your own claims.. And I am explaining to you why you are wrong using those words and claims...
Russia, in the form of Putin, is in the wrong here.. Pure and simple... NATO is on the side of the angels here...
These are the facts...
as i said, i was aware you weren't really casting blame. but again, this is the absolute wrong time to have a discussion of Russia's legitimate concerns, because right now putin's doing quite a bit of illegitimate conquest.
The *ONLY* "legitimate" concern Russia/Putin has is that NATO's expansion is foiling Putin's plans to reconstitute the USSR...
A civilized member of the society of nations has no reason to fear NATO expansion..
This is well documented FACT....
If any nation fears NATO expansion, it's SOLELY because said nation wants to rape and pillage neighboring countries..
Fini.... End of discussion...
France doesn't fear NATO expansion... North Korea does..
The UK doesn't fear NATO expansion... Iran does....
Spain doesn't fear NATO expansion... Russia does...
Is ANYONE here missing the pattern???
Mike the Poon
7
And yet, so many good things happened for this country under President Trump..
We obviously already know you're a Trump holster, Mike, but Your Worship -- the former President of the United States -- is busy right now praising his buddy Vladimir Putin. Can the other useful idiots of the GOP be far behind? I don't think so. The former President of the United States will now be on a loop on Russian state propaganda television in praise of Putin; that is what it means to be a useful idiot of Putin.
And, under the last 18 months of President Trump's term, ZERO American soldiers died in Afghanistan...
What kind moron who fancies himself a military expert would ever make or be ignorant enough to fall for the utter asinine bullshit claim that no soldiers died in a theater of war the size of Afghanistan over an 18-month period of time? You are a special kind of useful idiot: Gullible as well as stupid.
Oh, shocker NOT shocker; the former President of the United States who has always been a useful idiot for Vladimir Putin continues in his effusive praise of America's enemy, and Mike naturally wants to change the subject and lie about soldiers' deaths in Afghanistan. Maybe he isn't lying; maybe he's just ignorant about the FACTS and blinded by the actual fact that his head is shoved so far up Trump's ass that he's lost his ability to apply reasoning and common sense.
Mike the self-proclaimed Jack Reacher is such an "expert" that he believed the bullshit claim that no one died in a large theater of war for 18 months. That is effing bone-deep level ignorance. Here is the list of United States servicemembers who actually died in Afghanistan during that time:
11/27/2020 Leli, Kelliann
07/12/2020 Allbaugh, Joseph Trent
07/03/2020 Ibarria, Vincent Sebastian
05/19/2020 Bowman, Trevarius Ravon
02/12/2020 Kimball, Branden Tyme
02/08/2020 Rodriguez, Antonio Rey
02/08/2020 Gutierrez, Javier Jaguar
01/27/2020 Phaneuf, Ryan S.
01/27/2020 Voss, Paul K.
01/11/2020 Villalon, Miguel
01/11/2020 McLaughlin, Ian P.
12/23/2019 Goble, Michael J.
11/20/2019 Knadle, David C.
11/20/2019 Fuchigami Jr., Kirk T.
09/16/2019 Griffin, Jeremy W.
09/05/2019 Ortiz, Elis A. Barreto
08/29/2019 Ard, Dustin B.
08/21/2019 Gonzalez, Jose J.
08/21/2019 DeLeon-Figueroa, Luis F.
07/29/2019 Kreischer, Brandon Jay
07/29/2019 Nance, Michael Isaiah
07/17/2019 Saldana, Slayton
07/13/2019 Sartor, James G.
http://icasualties.org/App/AfghanFatalities
May they rest in peace. There are shit-tons of right-wing idiots who keep claiming zero Americans have died in Afghanistan in Trump's last 18 months; tell that asinine LIE to the families of these soldiers.
Obviously, if you were attempting to change the subject of Trump's perpetual praise and appeasement of Putin, choosing to highlight the deaths of Americans under Trump's watch would be an asinine choice considering the hundreds of thousands of Americans who died because of Trump. Cue Bashi and his COVID count.
Under yer moron, Biden.. 18 American soldiers killed.. All because of BIDEN'S incompetence..
Using the "Mike Metric" of dead soldier ineptitude, Trump is the hands down winner of incompetence in that regard. I reiterate that it takes a special kind of stupid to believe that zero American soldiers died in a theater of war that size over an 18-month period of time. It boggles the mind how stupid and possessing of a rock-bottom level of ignorance you would have to be in order to believe that asinine bullshit claim.
Biden is allowing Putin to carve up Ukraine and likely take over the whole country...
Is that your "prediction"? Because Biden hasn't exactly allowed Putin to carve up Ukraine; you are just inventing bullshit that hasn't happened and claiming it already has.
So, who really is the treasonous piece of shit, eh??
Donald Trump. He is giving aid to our enemy. If you think his praise of Putin isn't being run on a loop on Russian state propaganda media, then you are that special kind of stupid who'd be dumb enough to make the claim that zero United States soldiers died over an 18-month period of time in a country that is comparable in size to the State of Texas. That is the kind of ignorance so stupid it burns.
From all the available FACTS... It's Joe Biden..
Coming from the poster who is repeatedly demonstrably incapable of discerning facts from utter nonsensical total bullshit; it is to laugh. *laughs*
And add incompetent and senile to that as well..
Said the prattling useful idiot claiming that zero soldiers died over an 18-month period in a theater of war. Call Joe Biden senile if you wish, but even old Joe isn't dumb enough to believe the stupid shit you just posted in your typical knee-jerk exercises of deflection and whataboutism. Joe is an expert at foreign policy and not an ignorant fool like you who is dumb enough to believe ridiculous right-wing nonsense that doesn't even pass the common sense test.
Joe also isn't dumb enough to bend over in praise of Vladimir Putin like Donald Trump has done on multiple occasions.
Joshua,
I don't wish to have a discussion about Putin's concerns, either. It's not the subject of the headline piece, after all. I think he has gone off the deep end, anyways and his concerns are no concern of mine.
Again, I was merely pointing out why Americans should care about Ukraine ... because the US and its allies are NOT merely bystanders in this slow-moving geopolitical train wreck.
That is all and I am done with this for the time being.
Thank-you.
And once again, vick says "blaa blaaa blaaa blaaa"...
THAT is the kind of "rational discussion" you defend, Liz???? :^/
You wonder why Weigantia™ is the way it is, Liz??
Compare vick's BS to how it was BEFORE vick showed her ugly and hateful face here.... :^/
I don't wish to have a discussion about Putin's concerns, either. It's not the subject of the headline piece, after all. I think he has gone off the deep end, anyways and his concerns are no concern of mine.
Putin's concerns are at the heart of this matter...
Putin want's to reconstitute the old USSR...
NATO stands in his way...
"NATO expansion" is a GOOD thing for those who believe in civilized nations dealing with each other in a CIVILIZED way...
LACK of NATO expansion is the enemy of CIVILIZED discourse....
It's really THAT simple...
To recap...
Putin's concerns are completely and utterly IRRELEVANT because Putin want's to rebuild a Stalin-esque USSR empire...
Taking those megalomaniac actions into consideration is falling into the trap of claiming that every possible side of any given problem has virtue...
Ya'all went batshit hysterical when you THOUGHT President Trump was claiming that there were good people in the NAZI side of Charlottesville..
Here you have a situation where a bona-fide DICTATOR believes that it's his destiny to recreate Stalin's USSR and Democrats believe that there is virtue in that position...
Ya'all are in error if ya'all believe that...
It's THAT simple....
Okay, with all apologies to Chris, I am about to do something I have never done before and, I promise, will never do again.
I am going to post, in full, a piece by another of my favourite political analysts, William Bradley. If I had a link to post I would do that. But, I do not, so here is Bradley's latest cogent analysis that this group can consider itself lucky to have the opportunity to read.
Without further ado ...
------------------------------------------
Another Fine Mess
By William Bradley
2/22/2022 11:50 pm ET
"First the Obama-Biden administration reacted with a remarkably ho-hum attitude to the unprecedented intervention of Russian intelligence in our 2016 presidential election, which provided Donald Trump’s crucial edge in his very narrow win over Hillary Clinton. (Who had fatefully baited the bear by comparing Vladimir Putin to Adolf Hitler at the notorious $300,000 UCLA lecture I attended and whose husband Bill pushed NATO expansion east toward Russia.)
"Then the Biden-Harris administration hit the mute button again when Russian hackers linked to the security apparat injected malware into key public and private computer systems across the U.S.
"Having done nothing when Russian actors were so far outside their lane as to justify a “horse’s head” sort of response to career KGB officer Putin, President Joe Biden has now decided to draw a line in the sand to … preserve the prospect of expanding NATO into Ukraine. Which is a couple hundred miles from Moscow.
"Now, back in the 1990s, I tried, utterly unsuccessfully, to help Russian democratic reformers. This episode began in 1994 when the U.S. State Department placed a top aide to Russian President Boris Yeltsin with me for six weeks as part of learning how to do politics in a democracy. It quickly became apparent that Moscow in those days was in the midst of violent, corrupt turmoil. People doing politics were attacked, beaten, stabbed, shot. Dipping into that was like a whole season of ‘Yellowstone.’
"While the experience proved complex and multi-faceted, one aspect was very simple. Russians of all stripes — including the many pro-American types of the time whose ranks at least ostensibly boasted the new FSB security service chief I met with the Siberian blizzard eyes — agreed on one thing. No NATO expansion toward Russia. NATO was an alliance to defend against the late Soviet Union, not something to expand up to the borders of oft-invaded Russia.
"Fast forward to a few weeks ago, when I listened to an off-the record Biden administration briefing on the current crisis. I won’t quote it, since it was carefully off the record and frankly more than a little tedious. In the next life, if this planet is still habitable and something resembling our current setup exists, I will spend a lot less time listening to politicians.
"The one thing that was interesting was the attitude. No rationality was assigned to Putin.
"Of course, this briefing was just part of the rollout of a line from Biden and Secretary of State Antony Blinken on down to operatives, allies, “thought leaders,” and most of the Western media.
"We want serious negotiation for peace. But who can understand what is in the mind of Putin?
"Actually, Putin has been making his perspective clear for a very long time.
"After helping the US in the aftermath of 9/11, and souring on the US after the soon-to-backfire invasion of Iraq and fateful occupation of Afghanistan, he made his perspective clear after George Bush II and Dick Cheney renewed Bill Clinton’s push for NATO expansion eastward toward Russia. Stop the expansion and, above all, no NATO in Ukraine.
"Putin made it clear again when Cheney counselor Victoria Nuland became the Bush II/Cheney US ambassador to NATO, where she pushed NATO expansion toward Russia and promoted the constantly deceptive debacle that was US/NATO occupation of Afghanistan. He made it especially clear when Nuland — whose husband was one of the principal advocates of the invasion of Iraq as co-founder of the jauntily titled Project for the New American Century — became Hillary Clinton’s spokesperson and surfaced in Kiev, pushing a revolution against Ukraine’s democratically elected pro-Russia president and getting recorded on her mobile phone fecklessly discussing who the US should pick to be the next Ukrainian president. Gee, what’s a term for that? Let’s go with unwise.
"Nuland is now the U.S. undersecretary of state for policy.
"Putin was especially clear, as I wrote in near-real time, when new President Barack Obama visited Moscow in 2009. Obama preferred to think that new Russian President Dmitry Medvedev (an amiable lawyer who was Putin’s chief of staff and then prime minister) was the real power in Russia. Rather than the truth, which I pointed out during Obama’s trip, which was that Putin had merely switched offices with his prime minister for a few years rather than change the term limits part of the Russian constitution. (Putin would later just change the constitution.)
"Putin, the, ah, mere prime minister, made Obama come to his dacha outside Moscow, despite Obama having one of his ballyhooed major addresses on tap back in the city. Putin then lectured Obama at length, making the American president late for his big speech. His focus? Making sure the US and Russia stay in their respective lanes. Above all, hands off neighboring Ukraine. Rather than attend Obama’s speech, Putin then rode off with his Night Wolves motorcycle pals. To Ukraine. Got it, Mr. President?
"But in 2014, the US backed regime change in Ukraine, at the height of Putin’s cherished Sochi Winter Olympics, adding insult to injury.
"Hmm, what is it about autocrats and the Winter Olympics? At least Sochi, unlike Beijing, had all real snow. Not that there is a big future for the Winter Olympics in the dawning climate apocalypse. (TM)
"About that last, which is not at all a digression.
" he’s as capable as any politician in the world of shoveling some large loads of quasi-historical horse manure, Putin has some legitimate points, which he’s been making for a very long time. If Biden, Blinken or Nod for that matter find it all so mysterious, it’s because you just can’t engage in negotiation when you’re wearing ear plugs.
"Putin even has some points on the current Ukrainian government’s suppression of the Russian language and its extra-judicial oppression of duly elected members of Parliament, who made plenty of hay from the Zelenskyy administration’s mismanagement of the pandemic, which even extended to turning down the Russian vaccine when Ukraine couldn’t get Western vaccines.
"But there is no “genocide” in eastern Ukraine. Putin sounds like that dopey wokista college kid who got Kamala Harris to sound like she endorsed the harebrained notion of Israeli genocide against Palestinians.
"Having said all that because I prefer intellectual honesty and clear-eyed analysis, Putin is not our friend. I’ve seen those eyes and studied the man. He is a man of the main chance. Nor is Russia our friend. There were points at which, maybe, had we not had such an error-prone foreign policy establishment whose blunders are among the greatest in world history. Afghanistan, Syria, the rise of Isis, Libya, just to look at the last decade, and Iran and China may be in the on-deck circle.
"But the hopeful alliance with Russia, probably not. Though not for the reasons of the Beltway foreign policy establishment.
"As I’ve written before, some time after the election of Donald Trump I learned of a private report by a Russian think tank on the emerging climate crisis. It was an enormous geo-strategic opportunity for the Rodina, which, thanks to its status as the most physically enormous nation in the world and the, ah, authority-oriented history of the Russian people, was uniquely positioned to be the big winner of what for most nations would be disastrous global climate change.
"Russia had long been a center of climate change disinformation. While Putin officially signed climate agreements, his telling quip was that climate change really meant was that Russians would need fewer fur coats.
"Couple that with a long string of American geopolitical screw-ups and those Siberian blizzard eyes are focusing on the bonanza of main chances.
"In view of this scenario, Russia’s role in helping Donald Trump become president, which I was first given to understand — when I wrote the day after Wikileaks published damaging Clinton machine e-mails was the work of Russian intel — was at least as much about hurting the Clintons as helping Trump, is cast in an even more sinister light.
"Investigators looking for Trump campaign collusion with Russia were probably looking for the wrong things at the wrong time. (The vaunted Mueller investigation losing its key witnesses also doomed the probe, as I warned for months before the heralded report proved to be a largely wet firecracker.) And much of what happened in 2016 looks like rather shambolic Trumpies trying to figure out how to coordinate with the Russians rather than actual effective coordination. At one point during the transition, Jared Kushner tried to arrange a sensitive compartmented information facility at the Russian embassy to communicate privately with Moscow! The Russians, who probably thought Kushner was a credentialed idiot who lucked out scoring the boss’s hot daughter, said nyet.
"Between 2009 and 2012, the New York rich guy fame-aholic Democrat who to my enormous irritation backed my candidate, frontrunner Gary Hart, for president and later tried to become Bill Clinton’s golfing buddy morphed into an alt-right type. I know one person who showed Trump the glittering vista from the mountaintop during this period. But he focused on economic populism, corrupt elites, and social alienation. Not climate change. In 2009, Trump criticized Obama for not doing enough to fight climate change. By 2012, he was claiming it was all a Chinese hoax designed to destroy America’s industrial base. And Obama, of course, wasn’t even an American.
"As president, Trump proved to be the greatest champion on the planet FOR global climate change. But his own country, which is to say our country, does not benefit from climate change. Quite the contrary. Quite, quite, quite the contrary. Russia does benefit, even more than its alarmingly fast emerging ally China, which actually is taking some steps against climate change.
"Let’s put the little question of humanity’s future aside and return to our newest fine mess.
"I’m told that some attendees at the annual Munich Security Conference — an annual confab of international security types which I once attended and found not especially edifying — were going on over the weekend about how if Ukraine was in NATO we wouldn’t be in this fix.
"That is quite correct. Because the war would already have happened. So we wouldn’t be in this fix. Who really knows where anyone would be?
"There are two key points about the idea of expanding NATO into Ukraine.
"The first is that Ukraine is far too corrupt to even qualify for NATO membership.
"The second is that Russia will attack Ukraine if NATO ever expands into Ukraine. And Ukraine may very well not be the only place Moscow attacks.
"So the idea that NATO expansion into Ukraine is “off the table” is, well, how to put this politely? Let’s go with non-serious. That’s polite.
"Unless your goal is to foment crisis, or you somehow believe that there will be a pro-American regime change in Russia — which is simply idiotic — the appropriate assessment of Ukraine is this: It is of maximal strategic importance to Russia, as revealed by the advanced technology called a map. And it is of minimal strategic importance to the US.
"This is not to consign the Ukrainian people to an all-out Russian invasion. I was an observer in one of those, when the CIA said that the Soviet Union would not invade Afghanistan. It was efficient and brutal.
"We can preserve a good life for the Ukrainian people. I doubt Putin wants to run the place. Running any country is more than a bit of a pain, even if it doesn’t have a whole lot of hostile people. He wants to make sure we never get the opportunity to set up military forces a few hundred miles from Moscow.
"But we have folks who claimed week after week that Russian invasion of Ukraine was “imminent.” Pro tip: If it doesn’t happen right away, it is not imminent. It might be impending. As in, my snatching the mosquito from the air is imminent. My trip to the store to see if they have Starbucks dark roast, medium roast AND blonde roast is impending.
"Then they spent a day trying to determine if Russia had invaded. Which was amusing since they had also spent a lot of time bragging about their supposedly detailed knowledge of what the Russians were doing before they did it. But once the Russians did something, they weren’t sure what it was. Meanwhile, I was watching footage on Al Jazeera of Russian forces entering a Ukrainian town.
"Maybe that’s why they kept on saying Russian invasion of Ukraine was “imminent.” If you don’t know what imminent means, why would you know what an invasion is?
"And obviously if you have “detailed intelligence” on what the opposing force will do, you also have response scenarios already in place. So what was the hang-up in figuring out what to call the Russian move and what to do about it? Or maybe the better question is just … what’s wrong with this damn picture?
"So the Russians moved to make moot Kiev’s reneging on its agreement to semi-autonomous status for eastern Ukraine. There are now a couple fake pro-Russia republics. “People’s republics,” because Putin is an ironic classicist. And now there are some sanctions. Big deal.
"Another Fine Mess is in fact a classic movie title. It does not, shall we say, star Henry Fonda and James Stewart."
New West Notes
HuffPost
Politics from the inside/outside…
So.....
Basically, this is all UKRAINE's fault for not kow-towing to Russia's demands???
I am gabber-flasted into silence....
Momentarily....
Basically that entire piece is a Putin apologist who is justifying the rape of Ukraine saying Ukraine "asked for it"....
Again... Gabber-flasted...
Liz,
You seem to be fixating on this idea that A>NATO has NO RIGHT to offer Ukraine membership and B> Ukraine has NO RIGHT to consider such membership..
I would like to ask you WHERE you get that idea from??
Do you not accept the concept that NATO is a force for good and just in this world??
Or do you equate NATO with the now defunct WARSAW PACT???
Basically, you seem to be of the opinion that NATO is not the good guys...
I ask what you base that on??
I would like to ask you WHERE you get that idea from??
Your words, Michale. Not my idea.
Michale,
Ask me about something that I have actually said.
I dare ya.
Ask me about something that I have actually said.
I am asking about the entire commentary that you quoted..
It blames Ukraine for "reneging on its agreement to semi-autonomous status for eastern Ukraine."
Where are the FACTS to support the claim of reneging...
Ukraine is it's own sovereign country...
Do you agree with that??
If YES, then Ukraine has a RIGHT to consider NATO membership... And NATO has the RIGHT to offer such membership..
Do you agree with THAT??
Mike
8
#1 is what you call, lemme find exactly what you said..
"Engage in real political discussion"...
Is that comment from vick what you would call engaging in "real political discussion"??
CW remarked that "large parts of the Republican Party are supporting Biden's efforts." I responded that Donald Trump is now praising Putin and sinking to ever deeper depths and my belief that the other GOP useful idiots are likely to join him in doing so.
Only a moron wouldn't recognize this as being a real political discussion.
Of course not..
So you've established you're a moron. Nothing new.
Because ya'all don't WANT "real political discussion".. Ya'all want to lambaste your enemies, call them all sorts of names and spew baseless and fact-less diatribes against people who think differently than ya'all do..
Your projection is obvious to everyone else who reads the comment board... even though connecting the dots isn't exactly your strong suit. You have described yourself perfectly, and I can save myself a whole lot of time by just posting what CW said about you because he described you perfectly:
*
THAT is what ya'all want here..
Mike needs a safe space. He can dish it out but obviously cannot take it. Snowflake Mike.
If you don't like what Weigantia™ is in the here and now, then take a good look at people like vick and cad and rush and the lot of them..
Translation: Mike is terminal butthurt and has run into some posters he cannot run off the forum in his usual fashion. Poor Mike.
Because my posts and comments are simply a mirror image of their post and comments..
Incorrect. We can all spell, punctuate, and form paragraphs and aren't ignorant enough to confuse quantity with quality.
I simply do it more and better than they do...
In your ever-present demonstrable ignorance, you are obviously mistaking your Trollshit Mountain of quantity with quality... not unlike a fat bastard who would brag about his gorging himself to excess and then celebrating the resultant cardiovascular and circulatory disease.
Elizabeth Miller
32
I thought you two knew that I am Putin's biggest fan!
No one with any common sense would ever confuse you with Donald Trump. :)
Well, thanks for that. :)
Mike
72
Yes, I proved you wrong.
Yes, you ignored the facts I posted that proved you are a gullible right-wing echo chamber with ZERO common sense.
Yes, you will repeat the lies about no one dying and continue to disrespect the soldiers who did die on Trump's watch because you're an idiot with no common sense who prefers the Trumpian bullshit fiction over the actual facts.
Compare vick's BS to how it was BEFORE vick showed her ugly and hateful face here.... :^/
You're terminal butthurt; we understand. Whine and cry some more, Snowflake Mike. I am never not here. :)
vick says "blaaa blaa blaaa blaaa" with not a single fact to support any of her claims..
THAT is what was considered "rational discussion" here in Weigantia™ until I came back around...
Glad we put an end to THAT kind of BS, eh?? :D
Where has cad gotten himself to??
We haven't seen him since he TOTALLY flub'ed the RUSSIA WILL NEVER INVADE UKRAINE line of total bull!! :D
Yea... cad was in the US military.... :^/
BBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
As usual the FACTS win out... :D
Michale,
[Bradley's essay] blames Ukraine for "reneging on its agreement to semi-autonomous status for eastern Ukraine."
Where are the FACTS to support the claim of reneging..."
I find it amusing that your are always looking for facts but, ah, can never quite find them. Heh.
Facts to support the claim of Ukrainian reneging are in the public record. Look them up!
vick....
I am LAUGHING at the superior intellect...
BBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Facts to support the claim of Ukrainian reneging are in the public record. Look them up!
Yea??
Post them...
You can't because they don't exist..
The mere fact is Ukraine signed a Nuclear Non-Proliferation pact with Russia..
Ukraine gave up her nuclear weapons in exchange for security guarantees from Russia..
Putin reneged on those pacts.. One only has to see that Russia annex'ed Crimea to know that this is factually accurate..
Once again, I am GABBERFLASTED that you would support Putin in this aggression...
This is not like you, Liz...
I am concerned for your frame of mind.....
And the FACTS just keep on coming..
Biden's foreign affairs approval plummets to 40%: Gallup poll
Biden continues to struggle to lift his approval rating
President Biden's foreign affairs approval rating among American adults has plummeted to a new low, a recent Gallup poll shows.
As Biden’s second year in office marches forward, a Gallup poll out this week puts him far below water in the area of foreign policy, with only 40% of Americans approving of his job.
The president’s marks on foreign affairs are a point below his 41% overall approval rating, according to the new poll.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-foreign-affairs-approval-40-percent-gallup-poll
Biden is taking a HUGE hit...... The facts are incontrovertible...
https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2022/02/918/516/cartoon-022322.jpg?ve=1&tl=1
That pretty much says it all...
I am still at a loss as to understand why Liz and vick would want to support Putin in his attempts to rape and pillage Ukraine..
I mean, vick I can understand... She has ALWAYS been terroristic and wanky... ALWAYS willing to throw America under the bus..
But why would Liz throw in with vick...
THAT is mind-boggling...
It's clear that Putin and Russia are the bad guys here..
And vick is defending Putin and Russia...
Mind-boggling....
For Decades Biden Promised He Could Handle Putin
It was sent February 21, 2020, and Biden, or someone on the Biden campaign, wrote: “Vladimir Putin doesn’t want me to be President. He doesn’t want me to be our nominee. If you’re wondering why — it’s because I’m the only person in this field who’s ever gone toe-to-toe with him.”
Conservatives were all-too-happy to dig up that old tough guy talk in light of recent Russian bad behavior. But now, for better or worse, the president does find himself toe-to-toe with Putin. It is a moment he promised again and again that he was made for. He was so confident, he even used it to solicit campaign donations in 2020.
“I’m going to stand up to him,” Biden told his supporters in a fundraising video before he had secured the nomination. “He’s a bully.” Send me to the White House, and Putin will know “his days of tyranny and trying to intimidate the United States and those in Eastern Europe are over.”
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2022/02/23/for_decades_biden_promised_he_could_handle_putin_147233.html
Now we see how Biden "handles" Putin...
By giving Putin the Nord Stream 2 pipeline and giving Putin carte blanche in over-running Ukraine...
Biden is obviously Putin's puppet...
cad,
Where are you??
Are you not interested in defending your position that Russia will not invade Ukraine????
cad,
I am LAUGHING at your military prowess and acumen...
You obviously NEVER served in the US Military... :^/
Elizabeth Miller
85
Well, thanks for that. :)
You are welcome.
Nice post... the long opinion one, even if I don't agree with it in its lengthy entirety.
RANDOM FUN FACT: Brad Pitt's name is William Bradley Pitt.
Just wanted to let you know somebody read it. :)
It's hilarious...
First I PWN cad in his Putin-love comments..
Lots of corporations hired/recruited online agitators to keep people engaged on their message boards back in the AOL era of the internet. I cannot think of any other explanation for why CW allows you to turn his site into a portal right-wing propaganda regurgitation.
And then rush claims that I am actually an agent of the Weigantian™ administration..
And to top it off, I bitch-slap vick and her Putin love.... :D
I mean, honestly... Could this day be ANY brighter for me!??? :D
"Nice post... the long opinion one, even if I don't agree with it in its lengthy entirety."
-vick
Oh I love your post... I love your pro-PUTIN position...
I just don't agree with it..
BBBWBWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
What a crock o crap...
vick supports Putin to the hilt... That much is obvious...
Well I have to say.. I kinda like this ON TOPIC "rational discussion and debate" side of things.. :D
Here's hoping we can continue it without all the white noise of fact-less personal attacks, eh?? :D
So, let me get this straight..
Biden announces sanctions against Nord Stream 2 owner, reversing 2021 decision
The sanctions follow Germany's announcement that they are also taking steps to put the pipeline on hold
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/biden-sanctions-nord-stream-2-pipeline-russia-germany
Biden APPROVED Putin's oil pipeline after shutting down the US's Keystone pipeline..
NOW Biden is DISAPPROVING Putin's pipeline..
Biden is SO fickle, no WONDER Putin invaded Ukraine...
:^/
It's funny how vick claims she is ALWAYS here...
Yet, when the FACTS are posted, vick is no where to be found... :D
Funny, eh? :D
Mike
94
It's clear that Putin and Russia are the bad guys here..
And vick is defending Putin and Russia...
You have obviously confused with me with Your Worship, Donald Trump a.k.a. Putin's Puppet.
If you're going to continue to post bullshit about me, I will be happy to link to your fat-faced mugshot if you'd like. Maybe Bashi will post those links he's talked about featuring your fondness for being a holster. :)
Kick,
Nice post... the long opinion one, even if I don't agree with it in its lengthy entirety.
Heh. The word is 'non-brief'. A little private joke that a few around here, lurking and otherwise, will get. :)
It has a lot going for it than just the length, though. It is the sad hard truth.
Wake me up when the imminent invasion begins! Ha!
Biden administration officials are still calling it imminent today. Sigh.
Liz,
Wake me up when the imminent invasion begins! Ha!
Biden administration officials are still calling it imminent today. Sigh.
That was yesterday... :^/
vick,
If you're going to continue to post bullshit about me, I will be happy to link to your fat-faced mugshot if you'd like.
Why do you have my alleged mugshut???
Yes, I have had mugshot-style photos taking for my various military/weapons permits and clearances...
The fact that you claim to have those in your possession shows a level of icky stalker-ness that SHOULD be unsettling for all Weigantians™..
Tell me, vick.. Do you gaze at my photographs while your battery-driven "boyfriend" works magic on yer body???
Eeewwwwwwww
Why do you have pictures of me on your computer, vick???
Enquiring minds want to know...
But seriously.. By all means.. Link the pics that you gaze lovingly while you masturbate....
Show everyone what a true stalker-reprobate you really are...
Just be sure and show my good side... :D
BBBWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You see, Liz???
^^^^ That is what you defend as "serious discussion and debate"...
A reprobate stalker who searches the internet for pictures of people that have bitch-slapped her down time and time again...
THAT is what YOU call "serious discussion and debate"...
Are you fraking kidding me!???
Go ahead, vick..
POST the picture from my military service or my weapons permits that you masturbate to.... :D
BBBBWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Prove to everyone here what a low-life stalker and reprobate that you really are....
BBBBWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
There ya go, again.
Whassamatter, vick...
All of the sudden, you go dark???
BBBBWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
What a lowlife scumbag you have proven yourself to be.... :D
Liz,
There ya go, again.
Of course, you ignore this:
I will be happy to link to your fat-faced mugshot if you'd like.
Aren't you the LEAST bit curious why vick has pictures of me on her computer???
I mean, honestly Liz...
What in holy hell can you think of as justification for vick to have pictures of me on her computer???
Can you come up with a SINGLE justification for that???
Can you???
Of course you can't...
What you waiting for, vick???
Why aren't you posting what you claim to have????
BBBBWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Once again, vick proves beyond ANY doubt what Weigantia™ has become...
It's a good thing that this Weigantian™ Freedom Fighter has arrived on the scene to fix things... Make things right and proper again....
Maybe Bashi will post those links he's talked
-vick
"Help me Bashi!!! HELP ME!!! Michale is kicking my ass again and I need your help!!!!"
BBBBWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
What's the matter, vick???
You have out'ed yerself as masturbating to my online military/weapons pictures and now you need someone to bail you out!!???
BBBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Mike the Poon
Arrests and civil lawsuits are public record. Also, you've already admitted it on this forum.
Your creative bullshit and word twisting only works with idiots as gullible as you are. You are the only poster dumb enough on this forum to fall for your ridiculous drivel and spewage.
You and your perpetual whiney victimhood seem desperate to get Liz's attention today. Maybe not making up bullshit about Liz would have been a better angle. Nice try, though. Poon. :)
I mean, seriously..
"I will be happy to link to your fat-faced mugshot if you'd like."
-vick
Here we have a Weigantian™ commenter who ADMITS to collecting pictures of another Weigantian™ commenter that has kicked her ass from one side of Weigantia™ to the other...
And your response to that, Liz is....??? "Eh... so"????
You don't find that the LEAST bit disconcerting that vick would collect military/weapons permit pictures of me????
REALLY!!?????
How does that fit into your "rational discussion" wishes for Weigantia™???
So, obviously, vick is lying thru her tooth when she claims to have pictures of me... :D
BBBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
What's more pathetic???
That vick would actually have military/weapons permit pictures of me???
Or that she would LIE about it and claims she has them???
BBBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I am calling yer bitch ass out, vick..
Post what ya got.... PROVE you are not a lying assed bitch....
Go ahead... I double dog dare you!! :D
BBBBWWWWAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
Kick, what does the word "holster" mean in Texas? Does that mean what I think it means?
And cad shows his mug!!
Hay cad... How did that RUSSIA WON'T INVADE prediction work out for ya!!???
BBBBWAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
So, now we have cad with his gay slur and vick with her claim to have military/weapons permit pics of me that she masturbates to!!
BBBBWWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
WOW...
Today could have NOT worked out better for me!!! A gross and perverted stalker was outed and cad was out'ed as homophobic, completely with gay slurs!!! :D
Why so shy all of the sudden, vick??
You claim to have military/weapons permit pictures of me that you masturbate to...
And now you clam up and run away...
BBBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Post what you claim you have..
PROVE to everyone that yer nothing but an insecure internet stalker who can't handle getting her ass kicked six ways from sunday!!
BBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Got no scrot, eh vick!!???
BBBBWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Elizabeth Miller
110
There ya go, again.
Mike the poon has simply gotten the simple word "link" confused with all that bullshit he just made up. Word twisting and inventing shit is what he does, and everyone here is supposed to feel sorry for his perpetual victimhood... that he invents and then whines like a toddler begging for your sympathy.
If you weren't busy "fawning over Putin," you'd have time for Poor Mike, amiright? ;)
MtnCaddy
118
Kick, what does the word "holster" mean in Texas? Does that mean what I think it means?
If you think it means cock holster, you are correct. :)
Awww right.. I think I have embarrassed vick enough for today..
I mean, honestly.. what kind of lowlife scumbag actually COLLECTS pics of people online that has intellectually kicked their ass all over the Internet, eh???
Apparently, stalking people and collecting military/weapons permit pics is what constitutes "serious discussion" here in Weigantia™... :^/
I am sure we'll have LOTS to talk about this tomorrow when I log back in...
But for tonight, I am calling vick's bluff..
GO AHEAD... Post the pics of me that you masturbate to when yer "boyfriend" runs out of batteries..
BBBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Yer a luser, vick... Here in Weigantia™ you have ALWAYS been a luser...
I PWN you... Now... Always... Forever...
BBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Before I leave for the night, I'll make one more prediction...
vick doesn't REALLY have military/weapons permit pics of me.... She won't post them because she is LYING through her tooth...
AGAIN..
But the mere fact that she would LIE about having such pics???
It's pathetic.... She has no life so she has to claim she has my pics to masturbate to...
Personally, I would think it's flattering..
But... EEEEWWWWWWWWWWW
What a skank vick is..
BBBWWAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
See ya'all in the morning where we can all laugh at the skank, vick together... :D
Now then, regarding the column that came along with this comments section,
BEING that,
1- Russia has been invaded forever -- from the Mongols to the Nazis,
2- Therefore, having friendly buffer states bordering Russia is always-
on-their-mind-mind-mind-mind.
3- In 2005 Putin famously said the demise of the Soviet Union [in 1991] was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century...
SO I looked up NATO membership and here's what William Bradley is talking about:
1949 – Belgium, Canada,
Denmark, France, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, United Kingdom, United States.
1952 – Greece, Turkey
1955 – Germany
1982 – Spain
1999 – Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland
2004 – Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia
Notice how just a decade-and-coin later NATO suddenly borders Mother Russia, north and south? Can you blame the Rooskies for opposing NATO membership for Ukraine? This is an existential issue for them.
Putin would have invaded Ukraine weeks ago if he wanted war/conquest but his aim is to get assurances that Ukraine won't join NATO. Joe and Europe are rightfully playing hard to get and Putin has rightfully responded by officially/openly occupying Donbas. In the end they'll negotiate a no-NATO Ukraine deal and avoid a full on invasion.
For the record, Ukraine is the only country in history that voluntarily gave up all the nuclear weapons on its soil.
In 1994, the three depository states of
the Treaty on the Nonproliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT)—Russia, the United States,
and the United Kingdom—extended positive and negative security assurances to Ukraine.
The depository states underlined their commitment to Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial
integrity by signing the so-called “Budapest Memorandum.”
Using new archival records, this examination of Ukraine’s search for security guarantees
in the early 1990s reveals that, ironically, the threat of border revisionism by Russia was
the single gravest concern of Ukraine’s leadership when surrendering the nuclear arsenal.
So perhaps we owe Ukraine a little more than just caring about the price of gas in America, eh? Full disclosure, I am of 100% Ukrainian ancestry and these views may be biased regarding the old country as my grandparents called Ukraine.
Mike
124
Before I leave for the night, I'll make one more prediction...
vick doesn't REALLY have military/weapons permit pics of me.... She won't post them because she is LYING through her tooth...
It's your prediction that somebody doesn't have the bullshit you just invented about them when you went batshit crazy because they posted the words "link" and "mugshot"? You want a medal or a chest to pin it on?
It's pathetic.... She has no life so she has to claim she has my pics to masturbate to...
So you're saying you have no life and you're a she? I believe you.
Personally, I would think it's flattering..
Somebody already in the process of inventing bullshit about me and Liz lost his shit in the comments section and went batshit crazy inventing more shit when I posted the words "link" and "mugshot."
You would think that a guy who keeps claiming to be a Jack Reacher-style police officer wouldn't need it explained to him about arrests being easily searchable public record that are kept by law enforcement officers in perpetuity, but here we are.
See ya'all in the morning where we can all laugh at the skank, vick together... :D
It obviously would be a lot more fun for someone to suggest linking to your criminal mugshot that is obviously public record kept by law enforcement in perpetuity and then watch you perform for multiple comment boxes on end like the dancing monkey you've always been. Wind him up, and watch him go.
So, to recap: Mugshots are public record, Mike, you inveterate ignorant performing poon. :)
[122]
If you think it means cock holster, you are correct. :)
Oh! My delicate ears!
But yeah, that's exactly what I thought lol.
Caddy,
It is a sad day for Ukraine and for people all over the world who love freedom and justice.
I don't know where this is going but I pray that the Ukrainian people will get through this unprovoked and illegal invasion by Russia as safely as possible and that cooler heads prevail before too long.
I hope Russia pays a very, very heavy price for this action.
Of course, that is not how the world works. So, it will be the rest of us who will be paying a high price. :(