A Protest About Nothing
In politics, as in much of life, timing is key. Sometimes there are windows of opportunity that can be missed. Such seems to be the case with the so-called "People's Convoy," a group of American truckers who launched a copycat imitation of the Canadian truckers' protest, in the hopes of bringing media attention to their cause (or just themselves, perhaps). But their time -- if it ever even existed -- seems to have passed long before the big-rigs arrived near Washington D.C.
I've long been interested in the phenomenon of political protest, especially the mechanics and tactics used to gain public support and sympathy for a grand cause, no matter what issue the protest centers around. As the truckers in Canada proved, using 18-wheelers as actual protest vehicles can be a powerful display (whether popular or not). But the American imitation protest seems to be doing no more than spinning their wheels and driving in circles. Literally.
The truckers might have made a bigger impact if they had stuck to the original plan, which was to arrive in D.C. on the night of the State Of The Union speech. That would have given the television cameras something to focus on: "...outside the Capitol, however, a rather large and noisy protest was taking place." Except that that didn't happen -- and what did happen wasn't until the speech was long over anyway.
Unlike the Canadian truckers, the American protest was a rather Seinfeldian protest to begin with, since it is essentially a protest about nothing. Canadian truckers were expressing their anger at vaccine and mask mandates. The American truckers, however, faced no such mandates at all. There is no rule stating you must be vaccinated to drive a truck here, and the last statewide mask mandate just ended in Hawai'i. So what was the protest even supposed to be about?
This was the biggest window the truckers missed. By the time they got their act together and started their cross-country journey, the Omicron wave had not only crested but had completely ebbed away. Even the bluest states were eagerly ditching all the public health measures imposed to deal with the pandemic, since the danger has now largely passed and everyone was looking forward to a return to a more normal existence. If the protest had happened while the Canadian truckers were still in Ottawa, they might have actually had something to protest, but not now. Even back then, however, there simply was no trucker vaccine mandate here (President Joe Biden tried to mandate vaccines for all companies with 100 or more employees, but it was struck down by the courts long before it could even happen). Even then, mask mandates were never nationwide or specific to any one industry. But now that the pandemic seems to be functionally over (unless another variant appears and causes a new wave), there's just nothing left for them to vent their anger upon. Picture Jerry telling George and Elaine: "It's a protest... about nothing!"
To their credit, the American truckers have also been a lot more polite and law-abiding than their neighbors to the north were. The convoy hasn't actually entered Washington and doesn't plan to. They're based at least an hour out of town, and their protest has consisted of daily loops around the Washington Beltway, driving slowly (along with all the other vehicles who are also driving slowly -- the Beltway is notoriously congested much of the time anyway). They have not attempted to block traffic, they have stayed within one or two lanes, so they haven't had much of any impact on anyone's life at all.
They were constrained -- unlike the Canadians -- by history, as well. If the January 6th assault on the U.S. Capitol hadn't taken place, then the truckers might have been able to deploy the same tactics as the Canadians, by laying siege to both the Capitol and the White House, and likely much of the National Mall to boot. That might have at least generated some media attention for their non-existent cause, but the leaders of this protest have been acutely aware of how such tactics would both be seen (and fought against) now that the Capitol already has been besieged in anger. To put it mildly, Washington would not have been anywhere near as lenient as the Canadians were. So the truckers not only have not resorted to tying up traffic on the Beltway, they also have been adamant that they will not be entering the city at all. This defused what could have been a very tense situation before it even began (to the organizers' credit).
The truckers never really had much in the way of a list of "demands" they wanted to see take place. They wanted to meet with some lawmakers, and Senators Ted Cruz and Ron Johnson -- two Republicans always willing to pander to any whackadoodle right-wing protest that comes along -- politely sat down with them and spewed some generic statements of support. Ted Cruz even rode in one of the trucks' cabs today, stating: "I'm proud to listen to these guys, to hear their passion, hear why they're here, why they're fighting, and I'm proud to stand with them." The truckers have settled on a demand to end all pandemic restrictions everyone for everyone, and for the state of emergency to be lifted. But all of that is either going to happen naturally or simply won't matter very soon, protest or no protest.
What might have been smarter would have been for the truckers to shift from "protesting" to "declaring victory" instead. They could have made the (laughably inaccurate) claim that their mighty protest had ended all the restrictions and driven around triumphantly for a few days before going back to where they came from while patting themselves on the back. Now they say they're going to continue protesting until at least this weekend, although some of them are calling to stay indefinitely. But the likelihood is that the protest will noticeably shrink next week, and eventually melt away entirely (when their donors get tired of buying them expensive gas to pointlessly drive around in circles).
Because they never actually had anything to protest about in the first place, the American convoy was always a lot smaller than the Canadian protest. All of Canada has fewer people in it than California, but they managed to mount a larger protest there, even though the vast majority of even Canadian truckers didn't support it. Here, they should have been able to field a convoy five or ten times the size, but this never materialized.
Most truckers are out there driving and doing their jobs. They know full well there are no vaccine mandates for drivers and nobody asks them to don a mask anymore anywhere. So why bother wasting a bunch of time driving to D.C. when there is money to be made?
The real reason the truckers have been largely ignored, however, was a different window of opportunity they missed. A month or two ago, their supposed stance for "freedom" against "government tyranny" might have gotten them at least a little media attention. These are the cries people fighting against public health measures have been using all along, complete with the most overblown rhetoric imaginable. Back then, it was all seen as hyperbole but based in some sort of authentic anger at government overreach. Now, however, the world is watching a very different battle between actual freedom and actual tyranny. To state the obvious: when cities are being bombarded in Ukraine while the people fiercely resist an occupying army, those words have a different meaning. The rhetorical hyperbole here pales in comparison, and such statements are now seen as completely unserious to begin with (as they should).
The People's Convoy did not capture the attention of the American public in any way. People are not flocking to their cause, because their cause is already so outdated. Their protest is seen as rather ridiculous and largely pointless. And Americans can see with their own eyes what totalitarianism and true tyranny looks like these days, and it bears absolutely zero resemblance to any American emergency public health measures. It's debatable whether the American truckers ever even had a good window to mount such a protest in the first place, but even if one did exist, that window of opportunity was already long gone -- leaving them to fruitlessly spin their wheels as they drive around in circles.
-- Chris Weigant
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
They never had anything to protest about up here, either. ;)
They would have done better to protest the hold of Big Oil on their industry and to demand that they be set free of Big Oil's grasp by the prompt electrification of the highway system and the vehicles driving on it.
[3]
Yes, you're right. But fighting Big Oil is hard and success is not assured.
From previous commentary..
Hiya Russ... :D Welcome back.. :D
Liz
Just got home and my mind is mush - I will get to that article, though. Looks like we'll have lots of time to discuss it ... :(
I am somewhat confused by the frowny face.. Was that a typo??
andygaus,
They would have done better to protest the hold of Big Oil on their industry and to demand that they be set free of Big Oil's grasp by the prompt electrification of the highway system and the vehicles driving on it.
I am not aware that there has been such a technology boost that EV big rigs are now available.. Please, by all means.. Enlighten me.. :D I mean that sincerely...
Further, you DO realize that "big oil" is so much more part of our lives than highways and driving, right??
Would you like me to list all the things you have and do on a DAILY basis that are tied to "big oil"??
I would be happy to do so.. Just let me know.. :D
Have a happy.. :D
Ted Cruz even rode in one of the trucks' cabs today, stating: "I'm proud to listen to these guys, to hear their passion, hear why they're here, why they're fighting, and I'm proud to stand with them."
As opposed to Joe Biden who actually worked driving a big rig for a while in his life.. :D
So... Jussie Smollett gets 150 days in jail....
That sounds about right...
Anyone else???
Since a commentary about a nothing protest that was about nothing is kinda well... boring (no offense to the Weigantian administration) I am going to be a bit all over the place, bringing relevant news and facts to Weigantia..
Just a fair warning... :D
Let's start with the Durham Probe..
Back a bit ago, John Durham filed some papers with the court, one of which was FACTUAL BACKGROUND... This FACTUAL BACKGROUND listed a whole slew of facts that proved the Russia Collusion Delusion was nothing but a con job designed to bring down President Trump...
At the time, a Clinton crony who is going to jail (unless he turns on the higher ups) filed papers with the court to have that FACTUAL BACKGROUND thrown out.. He claimed that the FACTUAL BACKGROUND was not, in fact, factual..
The court ruled on the Clinton crony's request..
REQUEST DENIED...
The FACTUAL BACKGROUND will remain in the record as the established FACTS in the case.. :D
Once again, justice wins out.. :D
I have a feeling today is going to be a good day.. :D
But, since andygaus brought up big oil, let's talk about what Joe Biden is going to do to help Americans with the skyrocketing gas prices.. In my area alone, we were at 3.49 last week.. It's not up almost a dollar to 4.39..
Will Dems’ Green Dream Fuel GOP Red Wave?
Asked what he plans to do to bring down gas prices, Biden threw up his hands earlier this week, essentially saying there’s nothing he can do.
“Russia is responsible,” he told reporters. The latest intransigence came Wednesday during White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki’s briefing with reporters. Would Biden ever resurrect the Keystone XL pipeline, as some top officials in Canada are calling on him to do?
“There’s no plans for that, and it would not address any of the problems we’re having currently,” Psaki responded.
But other oil and gas experts, and the top government official of Alberta, argue just the opposite – that restarting construction of the 1,240-mile duct connecting Canada and Nebraska would signal a U.S. energy revival and help bring down prices.
Blaming Putin for pain at the pump is no accident. It’s a poll-driven strategy, according to Democratic pollster Celinda Lake, who told NBC News earlier this week that her work indicates that pointing to Putin and accusing oil companies of price-gouging resonates with voters.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2022/03/10/will_dems_green_dream_fuel_gop_red_wave__147311.html
If Biden and the Democrats are SERIOUS about helping Americans at the pump, they will immediately re-activate the Keystone Pipeline..
It's really THAT simple..
Michale,
If Biden and the Democrats are SERIOUS about helping Americans at the pump, they will immediately re-activate the Keystone Pipeline..
Not if this Canadian has anything to say about it! :)
That other frowy face was just meant to say that I am very disappointed and disheartened that the diplomatic path seems to have closed with Putin set to go to the bloody end of Ukraine ... so, we will have a lot of time to discuss that article ... :(
Off to work, again ... :(
According to Biden, Putin is responsible for inflation.. :^/
It's all Vlad's fault! Biden blames PUTIN for 7.9% inflation – the highest in 40 years – even though Russia only invaded Ukraine four days before the end of the month being measured
US Consumer Price Index rose 7.9 percent in February from a year ago, the most since June 1982
Biden blamed Vladimir Putin, thought the latest report does not capture the full impact of Russia's invasion
Soaring prices are affecting food, clothing, shelter and other basic necessities for regular Americans
Gasoline has continued to skyrocket since the February report, suggesting inflation will only get worse
It is adding to political pressure on Biden and congressional Democrats ahead of the key midterms
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10598083/Americans-face-HIGHER-prices-consumer-inflation-increasing-7-9-percent-February.html
Democrats will blame anyone and anything..
As long as they can avoid admitting that it's Democrat policies that is driving inflation.. :eyeroll:
Michale: If Biden and the Democrats are SERIOUS about helping Americans at the pump, they will immediately re-activate the Keystone Pipeline..
Not if this Canadian has anything to say about it! :)
Actually, it's the Canadians who are the ones pushing the most for Keystone to get back up and running.. :D
That other frowy face was just meant to say that I am very disappointed and disheartened that the diplomatic path seems to have closed with Putin set to go to the bloody end of Ukraine ... so, we will have a lot of time to discuss that article ... :(
Ahhhh OK, that makes sense now..
Off to work, again ... :(
Awwwwww... Who's gonna keep me in check, eh?? :D
President Joe Biden raised eyebrows after blaming soaring US inflation on Vladimir Putin, after the consumer price index hit another 40-year high of 7.9 percent in February.
Although the inflation data released on Thursday does not capture the full impact of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, which occurred just days before the end of February, Biden in a statement chose to blame 'Putin's price hike.'
'A large contributor to inflation this month was an increase in gas and energy prices as markets reacted to Putin's aggressive actions,' said Biden.
'As I have said from the start, there will be costs at home as we impose crippling sanctions in response to Putin's unprovoked war, but Americans can know this: the costs we are imposing on Putin and his cronies are far more devastating than the costs we are facing,' he added.
Republican critics scoffed at Biden's explanation for soaring consumer prices, with Republican National Committee Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel saying: 'Biden's attempt to deflect blame is an insult to every American and small business owner struggling to afford the cost of everyday goods.'
One thing is perfectly clear...
Inflation will still be with us in November and will be a HUGE factor in the mid-term elections...
Bad news for Democrats..
The time for recriminations and trucker protests is later. Right now Putin is an existential threat that needs to be met with a much greater show of force than anyone has so far managed.
The Ukrainian leader is scheduled to make a virtual address to the Canadian parliament in the House of Commons on Tuesday.
Hope he doesn't start projecting again and blame another NATO country for the killing of civilians in Ukraine or our 'love' for him may turn to something else more appropriate. Ahem.
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/03/10/13/55163705-10598083-This_GasBuddy_com_chart_shows_just_how_steeply_prices_have_risen-a-9_1646920345317.jpg
Oh yes.. Things do not look good for Democrats....
The time for recriminations and trucker protests is later. Right now Putin is an existential threat that needs to be met with a much greater show of force than anyone has so far managed.
Completely agree...
And, since Putin will view ANY action that US/NATO takes as escalatory, then it seems to me that the ONLY logical and rational response is to do whatever it takes to protect Ukraine...
Joshua,
There is only one way out of the mess in Ukraine and it ain't by way of the military.
When NATO nations, including my own, start focusing on diplomacy and stop calling the way of out of this a Ukrainian 'surrender' then we may have a chance to stop the killing.
Zelensky appears to be ignoring the the Israeli leader's efforts to find that diplomatic off ramp. In fact, we all know what that it is and calling it surrender is more than disingenuous, it is a way to prolong this war to the bitter, bloody end.
And, Chris's focus on the so-called Freedom Convoy "protests" by truckers and their allies is very much entwined with the fight for democracy, here at home and around the world.
Liz,
The problem with the diplomatic solution is that Ukraine loses..
In EVERY possible diplomatic solution, Ukraine will get the short end of the stick because every country that wants to force the diplomatic solution will want to kow-tow to Putin..
ANY solution that favors Ukraine is going to be a military solution...
JL,
Did you get a chance to catch up on PICARD?? I am DYING ta talk about it!! :D
Michale,
Ukraine had the short end of the stick BEFORE the war and, yes, they will have a shorter stick after a diplomatic settlement. But, if diplomacy reigns, then no more Ukrainians will die in this war with Russia AND they will keep their independence over most of Ukraine.
Otherwise, they will lose everything.
A military solution, Michale, will completely destroy Ukraine and, perhaps, much or all of the world.
Ukraine had the short end of the stick BEFORE the war and, yes, they will have a shorter stick after a diplomatic settlement. But, if diplomacy reigns, then no more Ukrainians will die in this war with Russia AND they will keep their independence over most of Ukraine.
True diplomacy would require a FAIR and equitable solution...
Since we all agree that a FAIR and equitable solution is NOT possible here, then a "diplomatic" solution is nothing but a Putin-decided solution.
A military solution, Michale, will completely destroy Ukraine and, perhaps, much or all of the world.
Not necessarily...
Can we agree that Putin cannot win against the NATO alliance??
Sure, but Putin isn't in a ground war with NATO.
Fair and equitable solution? Well, that would have been to avert a war by all reasonable means. That wasn't even tried!
At least, not in any serious way.
gotta run!
Sure, but Putin isn't in a ground war with NATO.
He could be. That's kind of my point..
Fair and equitable solution? Well, that would have been to avert a war by all reasonable means. That wasn't even tried!
You won't get much argument from me.. The steps that Allied nations took were lame and not very concerning to Putin and Russia..
The BIGGEST thing that would have made any difference was the ONE thing that Ukraine would not do..
And that was to give Putin a say in the future of Ukraine.. That would negate Ukraine sovereignty..
That was a No Go from the start..
gotta run!
Be safe...
Liz
Why is Ukraine the West's Fault? Featuring John Mearsheimer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4
Here you go... :D
@m,
is it available on regular amazon prime, or do i have to buy yet another streaming service?
@liz,
i know it's not a very palatable reality to you, or to president biden, or to anyone else for that matter, but there's only one language putin understands, and that's force. it might not be necessary to fight, but it is absolutely necessary to show willingness to fight. diplomacy and sanctions hurt regular russians and regular americans, but to him it's all just a green light to escalate, which he has and he will.
@don,
there's always time for pie.
JL
pardon. NOW is the time for pie!
Credit where credit is due..
Biden is really showing some spine when it comes sanctions against Russia...
I mean, it will all be for naught.. But... Good job..
There is no diplomatic solution here..
The ONLY diplomatic solution is the complete surrender and capitulation of Ukraine...
JL,
is it available on regular amazon prime, or do i have to buy yet another streaming service?
It's on PARAMOUNT+... But there are always torrents. :D If you want to download the mp4..
Michale-
Currently shipping on the electric truck front are medium sized vehicles: school buses, UPS style delivery trucks, box trucks and I think one medium sized cab. Mack is about to release an electric garbage truck this spring. Just about everyone in large truck manufacturing is working on electric long haul trucks, Mack, Mercedes, Volvo, Peterbilt and others as well as Tesla. Expect medium sized local fleets to go electric first but the wave is coming and long haulers will not be left out...
Yes, oil is used everywhere but if there is significant reduction of usage in one area. the price of oil is likely to go down far beyond the percentage of use in that one area. Enough that the price hit will affect Russia and the middle east. Also drop it below the fracking profit line. That's one thing not talked about with the increase of gas prices, I bet workers are steaming to the boom towns of the Dakotas and other fracking hubs...
I want more pipelines. Maybe not Keystone in particular, but I think there was one proposed here in MA that hasn't been built. Natural gas is the least bad fossil fuel overall. Some leakage is inevitable, and methane is a stronger greenhouse gas than CO2, but it doesn't stay in the atmosphere as long. Natural gas doesn't contain trace amounts of zillions of different toxic chemicals and large amounts of some, the way oil does. But it's harder to ship than oil is. To free Europe from dependence on Russian gas, we need more gas pipelines and more liquefaction and port facilities.
We also need to go all-in on renewable energy production, electric energy storage, schedulable demand, and electrification of stuff that now uses fossil fuel. To fill the gap left by Russian oil and gas, we need to work on it from both sides: extract and transport more fossil fuel, and use less ourselves.
Also, reposting something I said on Facebook:
I think I should acknowledge what I see as the core argument of the pro-Russia side, and address it head-on. The possibility of NATO expansion, they say, represents an existential threat to Russia. I doubt it, but fine, I'll stipulate that. It doesn't matter to me because, in my opinion, Russia has no right to exist. I'm not picking sides by saying that: I don't think Ukraine has a right to exist, either. I believe that people, not countries, have rights. For example, Ukrainians have a right not to be murdered by an invading army, and Russians have a right not to be conscripted and sent to die trying to murder their cousins. If the only way for Russia to keep its legitimacy in the eyes of its stakeholders is by maintaining an empire at the expense of people's lives, then they have the right to alter or abolish it. And if anyone who wants that bloody empire so that Russia can continue existing? To them I say too bad so sad, scan the QR code to get a coupon good for one metric f**k-ton of "thoughts and prayers". Comes with a free side order of punitive sanctions. If those sanctions mean the global economy suffers to the point where the stocks in my IRA tank and I wind up eating potato soup in my dotage, so be it. If we have to do a lot of nasty drilling and mining to replace the commodities that Russia has been exporting, so be it. Even if I'm wrong about how the invasion increases the risk of proliferation, the mass-murder thing by itself is reason enough for Russia to stop existing.
There's escalation, and then there's escalation. Some responses would get Putin to launch the ICBMs, and others won't.
A no-fly zone would mean direct, openly acknowledged combat between Russian and NATO forces. That's way too likely to lead to a nuclear exchange. We should send ground troops, but only at a level that can be inserted among the spontaneous volunteers with plausible deniability.
We should also acknowledge that Taiwan is different from Ukraine. For decades, Taiwan claimed to be the rightful government of all of China. China has never recognized Taiwan's legal separation, but has mostly accepted its de-facto sovereignty. China has a legitimate interest in working toward eventual peaceful reunification with Taiwan. Meanwhile, China's trade with the US is much, much more than its trade with Russia. For suppressing Russian power, Chinese monopsony is likely to be better at underdeveloping Russia than having Russia find lots of little leaks in the sanctions.
Ok, I think that's all for now. Russia delenda est.
Bashi,
Currently shipping on the electric truck front are medium sized vehicles: school buses, UPS style delivery trucks, box trucks and I think one medium sized cab. Mack is about to release an electric garbage truck this spring. Just about everyone in large truck manufacturing is working on electric long haul trucks, Mack, Mercedes, Volvo, Peterbilt and others as well as Tesla. Expect medium sized local fleets to go electric first but the wave is coming and long haulers will not be left out...
And yet, none of that is ready for wide-scale deployment, technology wise..
How do we know??
Because it hasn't happened..
With Democrats firmly in control of the reins of power, if such non-petroleum based power sources were actually ready, technology wise, they WOULD be deployed and Democrats would be talking incessantly about them..
But they are not, so they are not...
I readily concede that such technologies show promise..
But, unless those technologies are ready to step in and completely cover the areas that petroleum based products fill...???
Well, it's vaporware..
Yes, oil is used everywhere but if there is significant reduction of usage in one area. the price of oil is likely to go down far beyond the percentage of use in that one area. Enough that the price hit will affect Russia and the middle east. Also drop it below the fracking profit line. That's one thing not talked about with the increase of gas prices, I bet workers are steaming to the boom towns of the Dakotas and other fracking hubs...
And until those other technologies are ready to fill the bill that fossil fuels fill, it makes the MOST sense to exploit what we have rather than wish what we haven't..
Wouldn't you agree??
Comes with a free side order of punitive sanctions. If those sanctions mean the global economy suffers to the point where the stocks in my IRA tank and I wind up eating potato soup in my dotage, so be it. If we have to do a lot of nasty drilling and mining to replace the commodities that Russia has been exporting, so be it. Even if I'm wrong about how the invasion increases the risk of proliferation, the mass-murder thing by itself is reason enough for Russia to stop existing.
Agreed... The US/NATO needs to do whatever it takes to make sure Russia fails..
Utterly and completely..
If that means we ramp up our domestic fossil fuel production.. Fine...
If that means we shoot down Russian fighters over Ukraine... Great...
There's escalation, and then there's escalation. Some responses would get Putin to launch the ICBMs, and others won't.
The problem here is that we are allowing Putin to make the determination as to what is escalation and what isn't... And Putin will decide that "escalation" is whatever denies him victory in Ukraine..
Given this fact, I say that we say "Fuck Putin...". US/NATO will do whatever it takes to ensure the survival of Ukraine...
If anyone wants to play the "what if" game, fine.. We can do that too..
But the only "what if" that really matters is "What if we give Putin carte blanche to steamroll over Ukraine.. What will stop him from going on to Poland?? Or Romania?? Or Estonia??"
Ukraine being part of NATO or not being part of NATO is an excuse...
If US/NATO doesn't defend Ukraine, there is absolutely NO REASON to think that US/NATO WOULD defend Poland. Or Romania... Or Estonia...
Glad ta see you, dsws.. :D
And yet, none of that is ready for wide-scale deployment, technology wise..
Yes it is. When I said "Currently shipping" I meant it. You can buy these trucks right now. Well, you can get on waiting lists as everything coming out of their factories is already spoken for for the foreseeable future. Work trucks as well, the electric F150 has a three year waiting list...
Because it hasn't happened..
It's happening right now. This is the birth of the industry. You are witnessing it. Or at least those who follow these things are witnessing it...
But, unless those technologies are ready to step in and completely cover the areas that petroleum based products fill...???
Well, it's vaporware..
Nice try to politicize it, but that's not how change works. Factories are ramping up production of electric vehicles of all kinds including work trucks and medium sized trucks. Just about everything coming out of these factories has already been paid for. The market has spoken, it wants these things. It ain't vaporware, it's capitalism.
Wouldn't you agree??
No.
Yes it is. When I said "Currently shipping" I meant it. You can buy these trucks right now. Well, you can get on waiting lists as everything coming out of their factories is already spoken for for the foreseeable future. Work trucks as well, the electric F150 has a three year waiting list...
I am not talking about buying a kewl new pickup..
I am talking about what andygaus was talking about..
Semis that deliver all the cargo to grocers and such..
THAT is not ready yet to replace all the fossil fuel trucks on the road today...
No matter HOW much you wish it to be, it just ain't possible..
Nice try to politicize it, but that's not how change works. Factories are ramping up production of electric vehicles of all kinds including work trucks and medium sized trucks.
Nice try at deflection and obfuscation.. :D But not good enough..
We're talking about trucks that deliver the goods to a hungry nation.....
Not something that allows you to take the family on a mountain day...
EVs are simply NOT ready to take over from fossil fuel trucks.. And WON'T be ready in our lifetime..
No matter HOW much you wish it were so..
Semis that deliver all the cargo to grocers and such..
Are being manufactured today in American and European factories. Not long haulers, that's maybe a year or two maybe three years out but the box trucks that deliver produce to your local store can be electric today if you had the forethought to get on a waiting list a year or so ago...
THAT is not ready yet to replace all the fossil fuel trucks on the road today...
No matter HOW much you wish it to be, it just ain't possible..
I agree, magic wand technology is not here yet...
But the technology for electric heavy trucks is here and the only bottleneck is how fast factories can ramp up and pump out production.
EVs are simply NOT ready to take over from fossil fuel trucks.. And WON'T be ready in our lifetime..
Well, if you only plan on living another few years or so, you would be right...
There are simply NO FACTS to support the claim that EVs will be able to take over long haul duties within the next 20 years...
Prove me wrong.. :D
Tesla will be opening their electric semi truck factory next year...
Want to get on the wait list?
Yea... And Elon Musk is building a colony on Mars..
:eyeroll:
Dood... Building the infrastructure ALONE for EVs to replace fossil fuels will take DECADES..
It's a Democrat wet dream to believe that EVs will replace fossil fuels in our lifetime..
Build Back Better will pass Congress before EVs will replace fossil fuels...
Look how fast Starlink is replacing internet.. :^/
Electric Cars May Rule the World’s Roads by 2040
New analysis suggests the gasoline engine may be like the horse-and-buggy a century ago: doomed to a rapid demise.
Electric vehicles will one day push gas- or diesel-powered ones to the curb—but how soon? Sooner than you might think, according to researchers at the International Monetary Fund and Georgetown University: Based on how quickly horses and buggies disappeared in the early 1900s, the researchers argue, more than 90 per cent of all passenger vehicles in the U.S., Canada, Europe and other rich countries could be electric by 2040.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/electric-cars-replace-gasoline-engines-2040
DECADES, dood...
DECADES
Look how fast Starlink is replacing internet.. :^/
Amend that to say
Look how fast Starlink is replacing ISPs.. :^/
Dood... Building the infrastructure ALONE for EVs to replace fossil fuels will take DECADES..
And guess what is going to make creating that infrastructure possible??
Say it with me...
FOSSIL FUELS
andygaus's dream of eliminating fossil fuels is just that... A Democrat Party wet dream...
You know it.. I know it..
https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2022/03/918/516/cartoon-031122.jpg?ve=1&tl=1
Heh :D
Got anything beyond your eyeroll to doubt Tesla is not going to be rolling electric semi's off that assembly line next year?
They are not going to outlaw diesel trucks tomorrow. But electric is being produced and looks to be very competitive both in energy costs and maintenance. I would guess that a large chunk of total diesel trucks will be replaced over the next decade. Which is about as fast as can be rolled out without some sort of war power act...
DECADES, dood...
DECADES
From your linked article:
RethinkX, an independent think tank, is even more bullish, saying most U.S. vehicles will be electric by 2030 —just 13 years from now.
Or less than a decade considering your article is from 2017, practically the Paleocene in emerging tech time...
Got anything beyond your eyeroll to doubt Tesla is not going to be rolling electric semi's off that assembly line next year?
Got anything to show that rolling a Semi off the assembly line = replacing the entire US trucking infrastructure??
But electric is being produced and looks to be very competitive both in energy costs and maintenance.
Yes.. On paper, it looks GREAT.. :D Most things that are great DO look great... On paper..
I would guess that a large chunk of total diesel trucks will be replaced over the next decade.
Of course you GUESS that.. It's the Democrat agenda.. :D
But just in the last year... How has Democrats' and their "guesses" worked out?? :D
Decades, dood...
DECADES...
At the VERY least.
20 years ago flying cars looked "GREAT"...
On paper... :D
DECADES dood... Decades...
RethinkX, an independent think tank, is even more bullish, saying most U.S. vehicles will be electric by 2030 —just 13 years from now.
So, now we're going with the "more bullish".. On paper.. :D
Decades.... Simple as that..
And, if Russia starts tossing nukes around??
I would say probably centuries...
The fossil fuel-less world that andygaus is espousing??
It just AIN'T gonna happen.. Not in our life-time at any rate..
Got anything to show that rolling a Semi off the assembly line = replacing the entire US trucking infrastructure??
It's the start. Tesla is just first off the line for semi's but far from the last...
Of course you GUESS that.. It's the Democrat agenda.. :D
But just in the last year... How has Democrats' and their "guesses" worked out?? :D
As I mentioned yesterday, I'm not a registered democrat. My guess is based on watching the roll out of technology and understanding of capitalism. From now on, when a vehicle wears out or just time for replacement for whatever reason, it will be replaced by electric by an ever increasing percentage year over year.
The fossil fuel-less world that andygaus is espousing??
It just AIN'T gonna happen.. Not in our life-time at any rate..
Your life time maybe, mine...we will see. I don't deal in absolutes. I would expect the classic car folks will keep driving until all the gas stations shut down due to lack of business, but I expect the majority of vehicles will be electric in my life time.
It's the start. Tesla is just first off the line for semi's but far from the last...
Of course it's a start.. But just because it's a start doesn't mean the entire trucker industry of the US will be replaced in a few years..
From now on, when a vehicle wears out or just time for replacement for whatever reason, it will be replaced by electric by an ever increasing percentage year over year.
Even if that were factually accurate, it's not relevant to the TRUCKING INDUSTRY, which is what we are discussing..
Your life time maybe, mine...we will see. I don't deal in absolutes. I would expect the classic car folks will keep driving until all the gas stations shut down due to lack of business, but I expect the majority of vehicles will be electric in my life time.
Still in high school, eh?? :D
OK, fair enough.. In YOUR lifetime, maybe...
In mine?? No chance in hell...
"Good talk"
-Dr Rodney McKay
I am gonna go binge watch some more SUPERNATURAL..
Season 14.. :D
And yet, none of that is ready for wide-scale deployment, technology wise..
How do we know??
Because it hasn't happened..
With Democrats firmly in control of the reins of power, if such non-petroleum based power sources were actually ready, technology wise, they WOULD be deployed and Democrats would be talking incessantly about them..
But they are not, so they are not...
Sorry, but the Democrats being in charge of the Executive and both Houses of the Legislative branches of government might help push federal agencies to go electric, but it would not have the influence over local and state agencies that you seem to imply it would.
Most cities do not have the funds to replace their entire fleet of vehicles all at once; even if many of their current vehicles are relatively new and in perfect working order! You clearly have no idea how police departments, fire departments, EMS, and other local agencies work.
Our local government has already made the switch to electric/hybrids with the last two police vehicles they purchased and are looking for their next vehicle to be the new Ford F-150 Lightning. Cities purchase vehicles based on need to maintain their fleet numbers in order to operate at full capacity. Our ambulances are all hybrids. I am fairly sure the postal service is going fully electric as well.
All of Amazon’s delivery fleet are electric.
12]
ELIZABETH MILLER wrote,
That other frowy face was just meant to say that I am very disappointed and disheartened that the diplomatic path seems to have closed with Putin set to go to the bloody end of Ukraine ... so, we will have a lot of time to discuss that article ... :(
Yes, it sucks when the aggressor isn't interested in peace and when it resorts to punishing the Civilian population out of frustration and desperation. To paraphrase Chauncey Gardner,
It happens to invaded countries.
Sorry, but the Democrats being in charge of the Executive and both Houses of the Legislative branches of government might help push federal agencies to go electric, but it would not have the influence over local and state agencies that you seem to imply it would.
Most cities do not have the funds to replace their entire fleet of vehicles all at once; even if many of their current vehicles are relatively new and in perfect working order! You clearly have no idea how police departments, fire departments, EMS, and other local agencies work.
Our local government has already made the switch to electric/hybrids with the last two police vehicles they purchased and are looking for their next vehicle to be the new Ford F-150 Lightning. Cities purchase vehicles based on need to maintain their fleet numbers in order to operate at full capacity. Our ambulances are all hybrids. I am fairly sure the postal service is going fully electric as well.
All of Amazon’s delivery fleet are electric.
ALL of which has NOTHING to do with the entire fossil fuel-based trucking industry...
But, I appreciate your attempt to be part of the discussion.. :D I especially like that passive aggressive dig about PDs and FDs et al..
What can I say.. I was a simple street patrol cop... Not a motor pool monkey... :D
But it's always good ta hear from you, russ.. :D Keep trying.. :D
[17]
Hope he doesn't start projecting again and blame another NATO country for the killing of civilians in Ukraine or our 'love' for him may turn to something else more appropriate. Ahem.
Elizabeth where do you get your news? Tell me, when did Zelensky ever blame the killing on anybody besides Russia? Like never, right?
Zelensky owes it to Ukraine to if needed, call out the wussies in NATO for not providing the weapons he needs, like Mig-29s.
There's a huge difference between the two.
Zelensky will always be 'loved' by NATO because all Ukraine has to do is what the whole country wants to do now and forever...keep fighting. Keep fighting them to a stalemate. Keep buying time for sanctions and body bags to put unprecedented hurt on all of the Russian power centers (the military, the intelligence community, the oligarchs and the Russian people.)
Keep fighting even though Putin miscalculated and that doubling down is what Putin has always done.
Many Ukrainians and Russians will die needlessly but Ukraine will be Putin's graveyard. Like the first Russian Foreign Minister said, Russians will bring a gun and kill or "retire" the Boss before they'll bring him bad news.
Nuclear holocaust would be awful, duh, but it ain't gonna happen unless you really believe that a roomful of Russian military guys would just let Putin destroy both countries. We both have Boomers off each other's coasts and to launch is to die, period.. That's why I was confident that had Trump tried to launch someone would have put a couple rounds in his head first. Noone wants to die needlessly.
I get the whole Canadian Kumbaya thing, Liz. I'm a big fan of it, in fact.
But while a bad peace saves lives in the short run it's not a peace. It's nothing but a timeout and it never lasts.
Think this through with me...
Capitulate in Ukraine and the Baltic States are next. Then NATO has the shooting war that it so dreads. Although...right now, Ukraine is fighting Russia to something of a stalemate. Bleeping Ukraine! NATO would tear those Russians apart.
Fun Fact: Russia having the third largest airforce sounds pretty menacing, right? Numbers one and two are the US Air Force and the US Navy, with the Army Air Force and the Marines following Russia. It wouldn't be close and both country's militaries know it.
So a Russian victory is unlikely, war between NATO and Russia is unlikely, a nuclear exchange ain't gonna happen and when just two of the four Russian power centers bail on Vladimir then we'll enjoy regime change. If NATO is smart they'll take this opportunity to negotiate something that works for all the parties.
I know, and Unicorns too. Yet the path is there even if the will isn't.
Elizabeth, do you not realize that Munich-level appeasement is the only way Putin can win. Otherwise he's toast in weeks.
Boomer
n. Naval slang for nuclear missile armed submarines
[68]
[69]
I really care what you think about, Elizabeth, because it seems you don't see the geopolitical situation, the big picture, my friend.
My Vancouver.
ALL of which has NOTHING to do with the entire fossil fuel-based trucking industry...
Let me reword my response:
Sorry, but the Democrats being in charge of the Executive and both Houses of the Legislative branches of government might help push federal agencies to go electric, but it would not have the influence over local and state agencies that you seem to imply it would. And for the entire private fossil fuel-based trucking industry, they wouldn’t have any effect! They cannot force companies to buy new trucks nor are you necessarily going to be aware of when these companies start using EV semi’s.
You have yet to explain how the Dems being in power would have led to the trucks being implemented nationally. The technology is out there. Truck maker Nikola has their new EV rigs now being used at the ports in LA and Long Beach. Amazon stopped using fossil fuel based trucks and have gone to EV trucks.
If NATO is smart they'll take this opportunity to negotiate something that works for all the parties.
By this I mean the opposite of Trump. He wrote Afghanistan's death sentence when he didn't include them in the Taliban negotiations. Ukraine must have the final say over it's own territory.
And in 1994 the USA, the UK and Russia effing guaranteed Ukraine's territorial integrity in exchange for agreeing to give up their nukes.
So moral moral wiggle room to we have not help Ukraine in every way possible?
The new seasons of both Picard and Discovery ROCK! Have so enjoyed them!
Remember how the United States Marshall Plan et al rebuilt our former enemies after WW2 and the resulting Pax America has since led to the greatest improvements in human life in history?
THAT kind of smart.
Dood... Building the infrastructure ALONE for EVs to replace fossil fuels will take DECADES..
Months before the pandemic started, Devon and I flew home to GA to get my grandparents’ dining room set that they left me and we hauled it back to WA in a big U-haul. There were charging stations at almost every gas station we stopped at on our drive back… which shocked us. Definitely at all the ones along the interstate. It will happen without you realizing it has occurred.
[20]
Joshua,
There is only one way out of the mess in Ukraine and it ain't by way of the military.
When NATO nations, including my own, start focusing on diplomacy and stop calling the way of out of this a Ukrainian 'surrender' then we may have a chance to stop the killing.
Zelensky appears to be ignoring the the Israeli leader's efforts to find that diplomatic off ramp. In fact, we all know what that it is and calling it surrender is more than disingenuous, it is a way to prolong this war to the bitter, bloody end.
Give me some links to this nonsense! Putin launched and remains responsible for this war. He's not interested in peace. It's like "bipartisanship" which doesn't exist if one side isn't interested. Do you really believe that Zelensky is the obstacle to peace? Victim blaming?
*yeesh* you gotta lay off the RT, Liz!
Think this through with me...
Capitulate in Ukraine and the Baltic States are next. Then NATO has the shooting war that it so dreads. Although...right now, Ukraine is fighting Russia to something of a stalemate. Bleeping Ukraine! NATO would tear those Russians apart.
Elizabeth, what part of avoiding 1938 Munich-style appeasement doesn't make sense to you?
[73]
The new seasons of both Picard and Discovery ROCK! Have so enjoyed them!
No crosstalk in the classroom!
Pay attention, this is important stuff.
It's funny. This column is about the nothing burger protest. Certainly a yes, of course column. So now we've got an EV thread paralleling a Ukraine thread. Plus the usual spewage to scroll through.
Come back and talk to me, Elizabeth!
Resistance is futile.
MtnCaddy,
So now we've got an EV thread paralleling a Ukraine thread. Plus the usual spewage to scroll through.
I don't know what you're talking about. I was hoping that when you showed up here, you'd be ready to rock and roll but, you seem to be stuck in a time warp.
It's a new day here in Weigantia! Come and be part of the fun!
There is nothing here that needs scrolling through.
Snap out of it!
By the way, I have provided all the links (over the last couple of columns) you need to engage in a deep discussion with me about Ukraine ... not that links are needed for that, you understand.
MtnCaddy,
Do you really believe that Zelensky is the obstacle to peace? Victim blaming?
He is one of the obstacle to peace. But, I am not in the business of playing the blame game. I have no interest in it. Never have.
I'm looking for solutions to this mess and to stop the killing and dying while Zelensky, seemingly, is enjoying the love-infused limelight of his new-found celebrity.
There may yet be hope for a negotiated settlement and a victory for diplomacy, despite the foolish rhetoric all around.
Zelensky implied in an interview that he may be willing to set aside the idea of NATO membership while Putin has signalled that he may no longer be so inclined as to maintain regime change in Kiev as a goal.
I was thinking yesterday that the path to a negotiated settlement to this thing was closing fast but, today I am more optimistic. Of course, I just got home from work and haven't delved into my emails or any news yet, so ...
MtnCaddy,
Your retort to Michale,
No crosstalk in the classroom!,
was uncalled for.
"I gonna have a problem with you?
Actually, MtnCaddy, you were talking to Russ.
There has been no crosstalk in the classroom ... just a glorious discussion that I hope never ends around here!!!
:-)
MtnCaddy,
i>where do you get your news?
In the case you refer to, directly out of Zelensky's mouth.
He said NATO was responsible for the death of Ukrainian civilians because it won't put into place a no fly zone.
The problem here is that we are allowing Putin to make the determination as to what is escalation and what isn't.
He has his nuclear arsenal, and he decides whether to launch. We aren't allowing him or disallowing him, because we can't.
We're sending more military hardware than expected. We're imposing better sanctions than expected. That's good, under the circumstances.
What if we give Putin carte blanche to steamroll over Ukraine.
Countries around the world will notice. Many of them with more powerful neighbors will decide that they need to get nuclear weapons, or risk suffering the same fate as Ukraine. A world with two nuclear-armed powers in a stance of mutually assured destruction is relatively stable. We can probably survive a world that also has Pakistan, Israel, and North Korea, at least for quite a while. In a world with a hundred such countries, humanity winds up extinct within a few decades.
What will stop him from going on to Poland?
There are thousands of US troops in Poland. If he tries to steamroll over them, he's in a conventional war that he can't win.
And Elon Musk is building a colony on Mars.
SpaceX is building Starship, which will lower launch costs by an order of magnitude if it works anywhere near as well as expected. It will be awesome, and it will make internet access in rural areas better and cheaper.
And SpaceX isn't just Elon Musk.
But it's definitionally impossible to build a colony on Mars. No matter what we build there, there are no indigenous people to displace or subjugate, and no ecosystems to devastate, so whatever we build won't be a colony.
Nice to see you back, Dan!
Thanks for the welcome-back, both of you.
From the NY Times:
While it’s too soon to say whether his predictions will come true,
some experts
have warned that the specter of nuclear war from a great power could force smaller states to think about whether they need to acquire nuclear weapons for self-protection. For example, our colleagues at The Debatable pointed out a majority of South Koreans have come to favor the development of a domestic nuclear weapons program to protect against attacks from China or North Korea. Zelensky of Ukraine said that his country had made a mistake in abandoning the nuclear weapons it had inherited from the Soviet Union.
It allows two links per comment, right?
Good, it works with two. In the article, the phrase "some experts have warned" also links to this one: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/27/opinion/putin-russia-ukraine-europe.html
It actually works with as many links as you like, so long as you do the links like you did in [89] and NOT like in [90] ... :)
Actually, MtnCaddy, you were talking to Russ.
There has been no crosstalk in the classroom ... just a glorious discussion that I hope never ends around here!!!
:-)
Good Lord, Board Mother! You can't tell a joke when you see one?*smh*
And how about addressing my arguments instead of saying they're useless? Cmon, you'll teach me something.
Um,Zelensky is entirely correct that a NATO no-fly zone would save thousands of lives. Can you blame him for trying his best to make it so? Everybody knows it ain't gonna happen so don't overreact at the ever present Kabuki theater.
[91]
Now THAT'S performing Board Mother duty effectively! Much better. And you're still wrong about Ukraine until the moment you tell me why you aren't, K?
Don't worry, Elizabeth. I don't play that juvenile silence means consent foolishness, as I find it unbecoming.
[89]
In my experience, as many as you like.
(1) Trilogy - Emerson Lake & Palmer
(2) Rhapsody in Blue - Gershwin
(3) All Blues - John Coltrane
(4) The Ocean - Led Zeppelin
(5)Living in America - James Brown
(6) Elsewhere - Sarah McLachlan
Or this which fully dominated the 24/7 jukebox in my head last year.
All I can say is that in this ELP song the guy is really pissed about the relationship.
[89]
Think about it. Saddam and Gaddafi didn't have nukes and they're both dead. Ukraine gave up her nukes in 1994 and look at her reward.
On the other hand Kim Jong Un has nukes and he isn't going anywhere. Do the math.
[95]
And doing it this way let's people go back, find and replay that bitching Canadian rock and roll song you heard that other Sunday night.
I guess Elizabeth is something of a lightweight -- is only 0200 Ontario time.
Love ya, Gurl. Mañana ;D