Greatness Thrust Upon Him
In Twelfth Night, William Shakespeare gave us a brilliant construct: "Be not afraid of greatness. Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and others have greatness thrust upon them." Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has had greatness thrust upon him, and he has more than risen to the occasion.
Today Zelenskyy addressed the United States Congress, but his real plea was to President Joe Biden. Zelenskyy urged Biden to accept the mantle of "leader of the world" -- and to use that position to achieve peace -- at the very end of his speech. Zelenskyy did so in English (unlike the rest of his speech) so his words could not be misconstrued. Ever since the invasion of his country began almost three weeks ago, Zelenskyy has shown the world what true leadership looks like. Refusing to evacuate from his capital, he has urged on his own citizens and the rest of the world to do everything possible to repeal the Russian invaders.
Some might argue that Zelenskyy had already "achieved greatness" even before this war began. He rose from playing a Ukrainian president on a television comedy show to actually being elected president. And just like Ronald Reagan (America's first actor/president) did, Zelenskyy knows how to use the camera to his advantage. His speech today contained an absolutely brutal video montage showing in excruciating detail scenes of horror from the bloody reality that war-torn Ukraine has become. Zelenskyy has been winning the propaganda war within his own country and the rest of the world, showing he knows full well the power of the moving image and the effect it can have on public opinion.
The war itself has definitely thrust greatness upon Zelenskyy. Compare him to other countries' leaders who jump on the first flight out when the bombs start falling. Zelenskyy's response when he received an offer to do so was reportedly: "The fight is here. I need ammunition, not a ride." That's gutsy.
Zelenskyy has now spoken to the assembled governments of the United States, Canada, and Great Britain. In all these speeches, he appealed to local history, reminding America of how it felt after Pearl Harbor and 9/11, while when speaking to the British Parliament he echoed the words of Winston Churchill. He (or his speechwriter) certainly knows his audience. In fact, Zelenskyy is now being compared to Churchill for his steely resolve to defend his country; a comparison that seems entirely appropriate. Zelenskyy is showing the world genuine bravery, which is a different thing than the false bravado most world leaders routinely throw around.
Zelenskyy had a balancing act to perform in today's speech and he pulled it off without a hitch. He had to appear genuinely grateful for all the aid and support the rest of the world has already given, while appealing desperately for the world to give more and to do more. His biggest ask hasn't changed, although it was once again tailored perfectly for an American audience: " 'I have a dream.' These words are known to each of you. Today, I can say I have a need: I need to protect our sky." Echoing the dedicated pacifist Martin Luther King Junior might seem a rather odd way to plead for military support, but it hit just the right tone with the audience.
And Zelenskyy knew even before he made his plea that a no-fly zone was not going to be an option for the United States. So he also made sure Congress knew that Ukraine needed other help as well: "Is this a lot to ask for, to create a no-fly zone over Ukraine to save people? Is this too much to ask? A humanitarian no-fly zone is something that [means] Russia would not be able to terrorize our free cities. If this is too much to ask, we offer an alternative." He called for a continuing increase in sanctions on Russia as well as for sophisticated anti-aircraft missiles and fighter planes and drones to be sent.
President Biden immediately announced $800 million in new military aid to Ukraine, which will include better drones and better missiles, but no planes (as of this point -- this could always change depending on what Poland decides to do).
The video that Zelenskyy introduced showed in graphic and gripping detail exactly what hitting civilian targets means. It was so graphic I doubt much of it will be repeated on the evening news, since American networks don't regularly show things like dead children's bodies any more, even in war footage. But Zelenskyy doesn't have the luxury of worrying about audience sensibilities. He is making a point and the video made that point better than any speech ever could have. Seeing peaceful scenes of Ukraine before the invasion coupled with pictures of the same buildings being destroyed by Russian bombs and missiles and projectiles -- and then seeing the dead bodies such bombardment causes -- was shocking. But that's what war is. That's the reality Ukrainians live with on a daily basis now, which was precisely the point Zelenskyy was had made earlier:
Remember Pearl Harbor -- [the] terrible morning of December 7, 1941, when your sky was black from the planes attacking you. Just remember it. Remember September the 11th, a terrible day in 2001, when evil tried to turn your cities, independent territories, in[to] battlefields, when innocent people were attacked, attacked from air. Yes, just like nobody else expected it. You could not stop it. Our country experienced the same every day, right now, at this moment, every night for three weeks now.
That is Zelenskyy's reality now. A lesser leader wouldn't have held his country together this long or inspired its citizens to defend it so fiercely. A leader who fled at the very start would not command the world's attention in quite so poignant a fashion. A leader who didn't already know the power of the moving image might not have been so effective in rallying world opinion behind him.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy has had greatness thrust upon him, and he has more than proven equal to the challenge.
-- Chris Weigant
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
K, Elizabeth.
Here's Zelensky's address to Congress this morning.
Yes it's (16:56) but I think you'll see why Weigantia disagrees with you on Ukraine. Also, how did Biden fail in this situation?
I have a somewhat different view of the leadership being demonstrated by Zelensky.
The only way Ukraine gets out of this mess alive and somewhat intact is through negotiations with Russia. And, the Russian terms have been crystal clear over the past few months and, indeed, for 30 years!
The Israeli PM Naftali Bennett, acting as a go-between, presented Zelensky with these well-known and not unreasonable Russian terms and Z soundly rejected them. Worse than that, someone on his team told the Israeli press that they amounted to no more than 'surrender'. Which, of course, could not be further from the truth and so, Z walked back that nonsense in a tweet.
The leadership being provided by NATO and the US has been less than stellar, too. Their insistence on keeping open the promise of NATO membership for Ukraine is part of what got Ukraine into this war in the first place.
Now, Zelenskyy can show some real leadership by ending this unnecessary war with some simple language that Ukraine will remain neutral and never seek NATO membership. He is coming closer to such an announcement and negotiations seem to be getting serious.
Not a great time for Biden to call Putin a war criminal, though but, what are you gonna do when there is such a paucity of leadership all around?
Funny how having large oil reserves makes such a difference.
The Euros and a Lead from Behind Obama intervened to stop Gaddafi from bombing his own citizens in Lybia.
Saving innocent life in Ukraine lacks is not so imperative, it seems...
Elizabeth, this is what's happening in Ukraine in my universe,
No, things won't be the same as before the invasion.
1- Ukraine, a sovereign nation that gave up her nukes in exchange for security guarantees from Russia, the UK and America, refused to take orders from Putin.
2- In doing so they demonstrated more spine than the West and spine is the only deterent that bullies respect.
3- NATO and the whole world (besides the Chinese, fuck 'em) are united against Putin's threat to our peaceful world order.
4- Russia cannot beat Ukraine and even shelling civilians won't break them.
5- Sanctions are strangling Russia's economy, the bodies are arriving back home and it's just a matter of time before Putin is toast.
6- At the cost of a lot of Ukrainian blood we will have learned the lessons of Munich, 1938.
Sounds like that's light years away from where things stood before the invasion, no?
How in your world does this invasion not guarantee Ukrainian membership in NATO, along with Finland, Sweden and likely Austria? Malta, Cyprus and Ireland talking their chances.
If this was happening to Canada and not Ukraine how would you feel?
Elizabeth, this is what's happening in Ukraine in my universe,
1- Ukraine is a sovereign nation that gave up her nukes in exchange for security guarantees from Russia, the UK and America. She refused to take orders from Putin.
2- In doing so they demonstrated more spine than the West and spine is the only deterent that bullies respect.
3- NATO and the whole world (besides the Chinese, fuck 'em) are united against Putin's threat to our peaceful world order.
4- Russia cannot beat Ukraine and even shelling civilians won't break them.
5- Sanctions are strangling Russia's economy, the bodies are arriving back home and it's just a matter of time before Putin is toast.
6- At the cost of a lot of Ukrainian blood we will have learned the lessons of Munich, 1938.
Sounds like that's light years away from where things stood before the invasion, no?
How in your world does this invasion not guarantee Ukrainian membership in NATO, along with Finland, Sweden and likely Austria? Malta, Cyprus and Ireland taking their chances.
And now... for something completely different...
If America invaded Ontario and failed to capture Ontario's ten largest cities (not even capturing Windsor after three weeks of fighting) and resorted to shelling Canadian civilians to break your will, how would you feel? Would you been saying the same things?
Anyways, CW the story of Zelensky's heroism fits in rather nicely with the you just can't make this stuff up flavor of recent American history, amirite?
MtnCaddy,
My heart breaks for everyone in Ukraine - they are suffering unimaginable horror and that is just the people who have managed to get out. The ones who are left there must bear even greater suffering. All for a completely unnecessary and unjustified war.
You ask me how I would feel and would I be saying the same things if America invaded Canada. Well, in that little scenario of yours you fail to mention that Canada had pulled out of NATO and was taking up Russia on its offer to enter into a joint security arrangement with the goal of destabilizing a still democratic America.
You might imagine that I would be strongly advocating against war and against my country joining with Russia. I would advocate for my country to come to its senses and not leave NATO and not join Russia! And, in the case of an invasion when Canada and Russia refused to say that they would not be entering into a security arrangement and that Canada would remain neutral, I would be strongly advocating for a negotiated way out of our mess. A mess which came about because of incompetent leadership on the part of Russia and Canada in not recognizing the completely reasonable and manageable terms given by America.
So, you see where I am coming from now?
Liz,
I think you are completely wrong there. I think Putin has always been negotiating in bad faith and the Russian "terms" is the return of as much of the Soviet Union as Putin can manage. The center piece of that being the control of Ukraine. Russia's "neutrality" is purely in name only. Zelenskyy leaves or he dies if he takes the deal. For Ukraine it's now the real choice between the wealth and freedom of Europe and the west or returning to a Russian vassal state.
How much blood is that worth? In WWI and WWII that was measured in millions. So far in Ukraine it's measured in thousands.
Plus, I think the current gambit is not long term survival but make it so painful for the Russian people they deal with the problem on their own. It may have been unseemly for him to say it but Lindsey Graham was not wrong. This ends with Putin leaving power and he does not have a retirement plan.
Also keep in mind Israel really does not want Iran selling oil openly on the world market. A quick end to the war might prevent that. And there are still large populations of Jews in both Russia and Ukraine. A quick end would be good for them as well.
Zelenskyy is an interesting character. He is basically a progressive with balls. The American progressives should take copious notes...
It's not a total match as Ukraine is a completely different country but from his Wikipedia page:
Zelenskyy supports the free distribution of medical cannabis, free abortion in Ukraine, and the legalisation of prostitution and gambling.[204] He opposes the legalisation of firearms.[204]
I suspect he may change his tune on that last one if he manages to survive this war but even with the rest it's been hilarious watching the right dance around it. Tough spot, everyone loves and plucky underdog even if the politics don't match...
Bashi,
How do you see this war ending? With a Ukrainian military victory?
Peace talks are underway in a serious manner and a way out of this mess is beginning to take shape.
The plan included a ceasefire and withdrawal of Russian troops from Ukrainian territory occupied since this war began on Feb 24th "if Ukraine agrees to neutrality and limits on its armed forces". Ukraine would also agree not to pursue NATO membership and not to host any military bases or weaponry if the US, UK and other allies agree to protect Ukraine from future assaults against its territorial integrity, as I understand it.
Of course, there is still the question of Crimea and the Donbas region and the belief that Moscow is not serious and cannot be believed. One Ukrainian official said that pressure must continue on Russia - militarily and otherwise - to force them to reach a deal. It's hard to argue with that.
In any event, the most important thing right now is to get to a ceasefire and withdrawal of Russian troops and then the stickier parts of a final peace deal can be worked out.
Liz,
How do you see this war ending?
With Putin or Zelenskyy dead most likely. I think if there is a peace deal that benefits Ukraine it's purely because of both the ferocity of the defense and the world jumping on board with sanctions. Nether can be scaled back in the slightest. The Russian army could just wander off if Russian logistics break down much further. They have been shockingly bad so far. Doubly so if the paychecks start to bounce...
Well, both sides need this peace deal to be a win.
I still think it is doable and remains the only way to save lives.
@liz,
where the two sides' main goals are mutually exclusive, there's no deal possible without a winner and a loser. ukraine wants to be free and democratic; putin wants it to serve his agenda. it can't do both.
Walk on road. Walk right side, safe. Walk left side, safe. Walk middle, sooner or later, get squish, just like grape.”
~Nariyoshi Miyagi, the karate kid
JL
i.e. in this case there ain't no 'both sides.'
There is a deal to be had for both sides if you want to see an end to the destruction of all of Ukraine and the continued killing of its people.
How do you see this war ending, Joshua?
Joshua,
the main goals of Ukraine and Russia are not mutually exclusive ... serious talks are ongoing to prove this; there simply is no other way out of this mess
i see this war ending one of two ways, and no other:
1. russia grinds the ukranians down, assassinates zelenskyi and installs a puppet government that is subservient to putin.
2. russia gets bogged down and tired of fighting, declares victory and retreats.
any peace deal will only come after one of these scenarios has already occurred, and the result of the deal will reflect that outcome. yes, the two sides are in negotiations right now, but their positions are so massively far apart that compromise is downright laughable.
JL
hardly laughable
If we really want to stop suffering, there's no better way to do so than by leaving Ukraine to twist in the wind, so that it's forced to capitulate to being chopped up bit by bit and incorporated into the Russian Empire. Countries around the world will get the message and arm themselves, and in a couple of decades no one will ever suffer anything at all, ever. I'll stick to urban centers, so that when the end comes I'll have a good chance of being among the merely-unlucky millions who turn to incandescent gas instantaneously, instead of among the much-more-unlucky billions who die of radiation poisoning or famine over the following months. But after that, no more humans, so no more human suffering.
Russia delenda est
Zelenskyi is far more dangerous to Putin as a martyr than he is as the living, breathing, leader of Ukraine. The living are always screwing up and doing things that can be exploited. Martyrs exist on a plane of existence that is only viewed using filters that cleanse them of their minor flaws… and in some cases even the more serious flaws might be downgraded in severity enough to make the situation “acceptable” by the masses. For Zelenskyi’s sake, I hope that Putin realizes this.
Zelenskyy is an interesting character. He is basically a progressive with balls. The American progressives should take copious notes...
Not factually accurate.. Zelensky is a capitalist.. All those "progressive" causes that he supports?? Legalized drugs, prostitution etc etc..
Z only "supports" those causes because he wants to regulate and profit from them..
Zelensky's wartime leadership IS remarkable and there is no taking that away from him..
But the reality is that Ukraine ranks quite near the top as Most Corrupt Governments in the world go...
And the institutionalized and systemic racism of Ukraine's government is well-documented..
Zelensky is everything that Lefties accuse President Trump of being..
The fact that destiny has but him on the moral and ethical and legal high ground doesn't change the reality of what Ukraine was before the war..
I mean, com'on.. Stacked up against Putin, Mark Pellegrino almost attains the morale and ethical and legal high ground..
Zelenskyi is far more dangerous to Putin as a martyr than he is as the living, breathing, leader of Ukraine. The living are always screwing up and doing things that can be exploited. Martyrs exist on a plane of existence that is only viewed using filters that cleanse them of their minor flaws… and in some cases even the more serious flaws might be downgraded in severity enough to make the situation “acceptable” by the masses. For Zelenskyi’s sake, I hope that Putin realizes this.
Very true....
But I get the feeling that Putin is past the "thinking reasonable" stage..
"Peter?? He was border-line for a while.. Then he crossed the border."
-Egon, GHOSTBUSTERS II
From all the available data, Putin has blown past the border...
dsws,
If we really want to stop suffering, there's no better way to do so than by leaving Ukraine to twist in the wind, so that it's forced to capitulate to being chopped up bit by bit and incorporated into the Russian Empire. Countries around the world will get the message and arm themselves, and in a couple of decades no one will ever suffer anything at all, ever. I'll stick to urban centers, so that when the end comes I'll have a good chance of being among the merely-unlucky millions who turn to incandescent gas instantaneously, instead of among the much-more-unlucky billions who die of radiation poisoning or famine over the following months. But after that, no more humans, so no more human suffering.
I bet yer a LOT of fun at parties, eh? :D
Well, that has not been my experience. Ahem. :)
He'll always be Z to me.
i thought that was a sportscar.
exhibit A
or should i say, exhibit Z
It appears to be generally accepted that Ukraine joining NATO is a threat to Russia. I do not understand the logic of that. To my knowledge NATO has never attacked anyone nor has it attempted to destabilize any country anywhere. It is a purely defensive organization. If you agree that Putin's desire to recreate the Russian Empire is a good and legitimate goal then NATO membership would be a great impediment. However, if one believes that Ukraine has a right to determine their own future and move toward the West,then NATO membership would be a good thing for them. Elizabeth, if you rejected an ardent suitor and he were to make threats to physically force you to marry him, wouldn't you want to get a restraining order?
Elizabeth, you are sitting at your favorite bar telling your friend how much you admire Biden. This big brute sitting next to you places his hand on your shoulder in a very intimidating way and insists you admit that Trump is great. Do you tell him to fuck off risking physical injury or do you put on the MAGA hat and hail Trump? Over the course of the evening he demands you wear increasing amounts of Trump swag and voice frequent praises of Trump. Finally, as the bar sets to close he demands you go home with him and that you marry him so he can control every aspect of your life. In the interest of keeping the "peace" do you acquiesce and become his life long slave. OR do you take up arms and risk you life in opposing him?
It appears to be generally accepted that Ukraine joining NATO is a threat to Russia. I do not understand the logic of that. To my knowledge NATO has never attacked anyone nor has it attempted to destabilize any country anywhere.
That's the point I have always made..
It's easy to understand why Putin/Russia THINKS that NATO is a threat to Russia.. From their perspective it IS..
But, as you point out, based on the past history of NATO, it's not a rational or logical fear..
It is a purely defensive organization. If you agree that Putin's desire to recreate the Russian Empire is a good and legitimate goal then NATO membership would be a great impediment.
Good/Bad are moral judgements and depends solely on one's perspective.. Kinda like "truth"...
I bet yer a LOT of fun at parties, eh? :D
Well, what sort of party are we talking about? I don't agree enough with either of the majors (despite disagreeing with one a lot more than with the other) to be much fun there, and third-party politics seems pretty futile as long as we have winner-take-all plurality elections. But if you can find me something with a real shot at replacing capitalism with something better (communism doesn't count), I promise to bring a keg and a case of chips.
dsws,
But if you can find me something with a real shot at replacing capitalism with something better (communism doesn't count), I promise to bring a keg and a case of chips.
I heard "keg" then what?? :D
You remember David?? His posting name was Akajidan or something like that??
He always said that if someone like me and someone like him could just get together over beers , we could probably solve 95% of this country's problems..
You sound like that kinda guy too.. :D
[31]
It appears to be generally accepted that Ukraine joining NATO is a threat to Russia.
It seems plausible to me, although I don't pretend to know one way or the other, that Russia depends for its legitimacy on being seen as a worthy heir to the Russian Empire, capable of dominating its sphere of influence. If so, then it would be threatened by having neighbors who can coexist in peace whether Russia wants to let them or not.
Looks like I'm caught up.
Russia delenda est
[7]
Yes, I most certainly get what you're saying here.
To understand my point leave all that extraneous NATO Russia stuff out because my question was and is if America invaded Ontario and failed to capture Ontario's ten largest cities after three weeks of fighting ...and resorted to shelling Canadian civilians to break your will, how would you feel? Would you been saying these same things?
I strongly doubt it.
Putting yourself in this scenario should make you understand why Zelensky and Ukraine are doing what they're doing. Heck, Zelensky couldn't stop his country from doing so even if he wanted to.
Looks like Elizabeth is resisting the collective efforts of Weigantia to get over her insistence that a bad peace is always better than no peace.
Michale you cracked me up a couple of times there, keep up the good work.
Er, just a thought: I think that a dialog with you about American law enforcement could be useful. You understand the enforcement side and I understand the consumer side. Don't say yes -- don't say no -- have your people call my people and we'll do lunch!
[21]
Does this mean that you believe that Progressivism and Capitalism are mutually exclusive?
Not Communism, mind you. The only thing that Communism has ever done for any country is make everybody poor.
Russia being invaded since forever is a historical fact that all Russian rulers never forget. One answer has been to have compliant buffer states around them. This is why Putin said that the Soviet Union's collapse was the worst geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century.
So Russians regard any neighbor not under it's de facto control as threatening.
Russia is losing population and mainly depends on selling non renewable fossil fuels. This invasion was Putin's last hurrah while he thought he still had the chance. I don't think he's going to survive this blunder.
david is still around i believe, has his own blog somewhere...
http://akadjian.com/
Dan,
Can't you just forget about politics for a few hours every week?
I think I liked David ...
SF Bear,
I have some sense of what Putin's worldview is and how his grievances have over the decades been building up against the West, particularly since the Orange revolution in Ukraine in 2004.
His worldview has been shaped in part by the humiliation that he and many of his fellow Russians felt as the Soviet Union collapsed and, while Russia was down, by the expansion of NATO ever closer to Moscow's doorstep.
Putin believes in powerful nations being able to set the rules of the road while smaller nations must toe the line. He believes Russia, a powerful nation, is entitled to a certain sphere of influence without that space being interfered with by encroachment of the West. And, a threat to any or all of this he sees as a direct threat to Russia and his reins of power. He sees US policy as an effort to undermine his regime.
This is where Putin is coming from and while much of it is wrong-headed, it isn't too difficult to understand with an eye on history.
SF Bear,
If you agree that Putin's desire to recreate the Russian Empire is a good and legitimate goal then NATO membership would be a great impediment. However, if one believes that Ukraine has a right to determine their own future and move toward the West, then NATO membership would be a good thing for them.
I would say that Putin's goal has been to make Russia a powerful nation again and, then to keep it that way and to protect it from expansion of NATO with all the force and weaponry that NATO membership entails.
Of course, Ukraine has every right to determine its own course, politically, economically and strategically.
NATO also has every right to choose what country it wishes to admit as a member.
This war was almost inevitable when the US and its NATO allies made an incredibly unwise choice to keep Ukraine's potential membership in NATO off of the negotiating table. In fact, that alone, arguably, set everything in motion.
@liz,
i'm sure if we really try we could get inside stalin's head as well, but that doesn't make his positions reasonable or accommodating them a good idea.
JL
SF Bear[32],
Well, that sounds like the ultimate date night from Hell and back! Heh.
What is with you guys and the non-serious analogies?
Joshua,
i'm sure if we really try we could get inside stalin's head as well, but that doesn't make his positions reasonable or accommodating them a good idea.
Well, as mentioned, much of Putin's worldview is wrong-headed.
His terms with respect to Ukraine are not unreasonable nor unmanageable, with a little imagination and leadership on the part of Ukraine and its friends throughout the West.
The Russian terms, in fact, will form the basis of a peace agreement that both Ukraine and Russia can live with. But, time is of the essence - for all involved.
I was just made aware of this US Department of Defense email alert from earlier today:
"There has been little activity in the Russian invasion of Ukraine in the last 24 hours, according to a senior Defense Department official.
"We have observed naval activity in the north Black Sea off the coast of Odesa, but no shelling over the course of the last 24 hours that we observed," the official said. "And imminent signs of an amphibious assault on Odesa," he noted, adding that in terms of ground movements, the Russians are basically where they have been since yesterday."
Not sure why CNN doesn't know about this. I'm kidding.
@liz,
how exactly can you part the specific terms from the dictator and war criminal who's laying them out? if the president is using those terms, especially this president, why can't you trust him on it?
JL
Sorry, not following that ...
Here is the link source for the DOD news exerpt above in my [50].
Oh, I remember our David, now! I loved him!
if president biden, a politician who you trust and admire, is calling putin a war criminal and rejecting his demands, why can't you?
MtnCaddy,
Russia being invaded since forever is a historical fact that all Russian rulers never forget. One answer has been to have compliant buffer states around them.
Not sure about compliant but definitely not states on their border with all of NATO's force and weaponry at the ready. :)
vladimir putin isn't "wrong-headed," he's pathological. many pathologies follow a sort of internally consistent logic, which one can make sense of if you figure out the assumptions behind it. however, that does not mean it's a good idea to negotiate on the premise of good faith compromise with a psychopath. i think president biden has figured that out.
JL
Joshua,
I agree with Biden that Putin is a war criminal, based on the actions of his military in Ukraine.
Of course, if Biden didn't have bad timing he wouldn't have any timing at all ... publically calling Putin a war criminal just at the point in time when sensitive and fragile peace talks are going on and a deal is taking shape. But, whatever.
I don't think Biden is rejecting Putin's demands insofar as the current negotiations are concerned. In any event, Z is beginning to moderate his views on NATO membership and Putin no longer says regime change in Kiev is a goal, among other accommodations ...
I still think Biden and America's NATO allies made a huge mistake in taking Ukraine's membership in NATO off of the negotiating table - and even for ever considering it in the first place. Which was a main factor in the inevitability of this war.
Joshua,
vladimir putin isn't "wrong-headed," he's pathological.
Well, I didn't say he was.
I said his worldview is wrong-headed.
tomayto, tomahto. he's not someone worth negotiating with, because he'll break his word the first time he thinks it's to his benefit to do so.
I hope Biden intends to support Z when the time comes to say, once and for all, that Ukraine will NEVER be a member of NATO!
I read somewhere today in an opinion piece that Z is quite an astute player in all of this.
I had been wondering why in the world would Z keep on asking for a no-fly zone to be implemented by NATO to protect Ukraine's airspace. Doesn't he know that there is no way in Hell that NATO would ever do this for reasons that are fairly obvious.
But, this opinion piece argued that Z knows that NATO would not and could not succumb to his demand for a no-fly zone. So, he can now say that, you know what, NATO can't seem to bring itself to help us when we need it most so, who needs NATO, anyways! He is setting up the circumstance where he can persuade his people that forgetting about NATO membership is no big deal.
I have to say, I never thought about it that way but it makes perfect sense and a good sign that Z knows exactly what he is doing and what needs to be done.
Words matter in this discussion.
he's not someone worth negotiating with, because he'll break his word the first time he thinks it's to his benefit to do so.
What's that saying ... you negotiate with the one on the other side of the negotiating table, not necessarily the one you would rather negotiate with ... or, something like that. :)
Besides, part of the deal is a security arrangement for Ukraine involving its protection, guaranteed by the US, UK and others, should Ukraine's territorial integrity be threatened again, so ...
so, if the US president in 2025 is trump again, or ted cruz, what exactly is that guarantee worth?
What if the US and other countries were to ratify it in a treaty?
By the way, Joshua, bite your tongue!
Arnold Schwarzenegger Tells Russian People - You Are Being Lied To!
MtnCaddy,
To understand my point leave all that extraneous NATO Russia stuff out because my question was and is if America invaded Ontario and failed to capture Ontario's ten largest cities after three weeks of fighting ...and resorted to shelling Canadian civilians to break your will, how would you feel? Would you been saying these same things?
Why would America invade Ontario?
You see, you don't have a point if you leave out all of the "extraneous" NATO Russia stuff.
Try to avoid non-serious analogies, MtnCaddy, okay?
MtnCaddy,
K, Elizabeth.
Here's Zelensky's address to Congress this morning. (link provided)
You think I didn't watch it live, in its entirety?
MtnCaddy [38],
Looks like Elizabeth is resisting the collective efforts of Weigantia to get over her insistence that a bad peace is always better than no peace.
How so?
And, does this mean you'll never ever come to another CW Sunday Night Music Festival and Dance Party?
Don't tell me you're just another party pooper ...
I had thought that you were going to take over the reins last week ... :(
Is it past your bedtime, MtnCaddy?
Well, it's definitely past mine, so ... later, pal!
By the way, are we still on for coffee, or something better, at some cafe or other in Vancouver?
I am so looking forward to that - you have no idea! :)
There is a place there I really have to visit but, don't want to do it alone.
I know a few people in Vancouver but, I'd like to go there with you ...