Friday Talking Points -- Real Censorship, Not Fake
It's hard, as each new week goes by, not to get distracted by all of the chaos emanating from Washington. This week, we're going to begin by connecting a few dots that really need connecting, and (so far) haven't gotten enough attention (in our humble opinion).
Before Donald Trump became president again, both he and his MAGA choir spent a lot of time decrying "censorship" and wailing about their "free speech" being somehow suppressed. This was largely due to social media sites policing their allowable content, and occasionally removing objectionable or flat-out false posts and even kicking people off their platforms.
This is not "censorship," as both we and many others pointed out, at the time. A social media company is a private entity, and what they allow or don't allow on their sites is their own business, plain and simple. Twitter was not "the public square," period. No First Amendment rights were being trampled upon by any of it.
Let's review, shall we? Here is the First Amendment, in full:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people to peaceably assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
You'll note that the key word in this is the first one: Congress. In other words, the government. Doesn't say one word about what a private company can or cannot do, unless you count the fact that it guarantees the freedom of "the press" -- which is, in fact, the only mention of any private industry in the entire Constitution.
Twitter policing its own site isn't covered by any of it, to put this another way. If you wanted to change the policing practices of Twitter, you could always just buy the company and institute those changes. Coincidentally enough, Elon Musk did just that. And for all his supposed reverence for free speech, he can now just squelch anyone (or kick them off) for any speech he doesn't personally like.
Which is all completely fine, because none of it is covered by the First Amendment. What Trump and all the rest of them were annoyed about wasn't censorship, it was a made-up interpretation -- which is why we write it as "censorship," to denote that it truly isn't.
Real censorship comes when the government tries to police free speech. Which is what is happening now. As usual with Trump, the things he complains the loudest about are exactly the things he wants to do himself.
So let's review what has been happening, just in the past week. Early on, many government webpages simply disappeared. They just yanked them, because Trump disapproved of certain things they said -- mostly having to do with pointing out the existence of transgender people or any other kind of diversity (especially racial). This included even medical studies. Later in the week, a federal judge had to order the C.D.C. and the F.D.A. to restore these webpages.
The Trump White House has now kicked out the reporter from the Associated Press from their briefings and events, because the century-old organization has not changed their official style sheet to direct editors to always use "Gulf of America," rather than "Gulf of Mexico" (as everyone on the planet has been calling it for the past four hundred years). This violates both the free speech clause and the freedom of the press in the First Amendment, because it equates to the government dictating editorial policy to a press organization. One article, reporting on the decision, wrote that the press secretary "might as well have been stomping on a copy of the Bill of Rights under the lectern" while she tried to justify the White House's position.
A medical C.D.C. report was delayed (although it finally did get released) that documented new information about the spread of bird flu. This is rather ominous, because bird flu has the potential to become the next pandemic, and this seems to be a harbinger of how the White House is going to handle it: stomp on any bad news so people don't know what is going on. This isn't all that surprising, after watching Trump's anger at people like Dr. Anthony Fauci during the COVID-19 pandemic (for telling the public the truth rather than Trump's personal false beliefs).
Linda McMahon, Trump's nominee to be the secretary of Education, could not say during her Senate confirmation hearing whether schools would be allowed to teach lessons about Black History Month. Alongside making trans people disappear in government documents, they've also been scrubbing any mention of race they can find. And, obviously, teaching a Black History Month lesson is going to discuss race, in some way or another. So she wasn't sure it that would be allowed.
Donald Trump kicked everyone he didn't like off the board of the Kennedy Center, and then named himself their new head. This is all so he can decide what artists are allowed to perform and which aren't. Nothing quite says government censorship like the president of the United States deciding whether artists praise their Dear Leader enough, eh? And we certainly can't have any representations of gay people or any diversity whatsoever. This move was just stunning for its pettiness, really.
All mentions of a $400 million contract with Tesla (to build armored vehicles for the military) were scrubbed from a State Department document. Hmmm... wonder if Elon Musk had anything to do with that, after reporters have been asking him about conflicts of interest....
Massive databases from the U.S. Census disappeared online briefly, before also being restored. This is data about the public that is used in countless ways by all sorts of organizations (both governmental and private), and sent a shock of fear throughout those who rely on it. Here's how the Washington Post started their article reporting on this worrisome development:
For a few days this month, some of the most valuable datasets in human history vanished from U.S. government websites, often without warning and with no guidance about what would happen next.
To those of us who have gone on record describing the Census Bureau's American Community Survey as a wonder of the modern world, watching its files disappear from a federal FTP server felt like watching the Library of Alexandria go up in smoke.
And finally -- and perhaps most egregiously -- transgender people were sent down the memory hole by the National Park Service, on their site for the Stonewall Uprising National Monument. Which is more than a little problematic, since trans activists were leading the uprising. As the Stonewall Inn Gives Back Initiative wrote, condemning the erasure:
Let us be clear: Stonewall is transgender history. Marsha P. Johnson, Sylvia Rivera, and countless other trans and gender-nonconforming individuals fought bravely, and often at great personal risk, to push back against oppressive systems. Their courage, sacrifice, and leadership were central to the resistance we now celebrate as the foundation of the modern LGBTQ+ rights movement.... [We] will not rest until this grave injustice is corrected.
Remember all the angst from Trump and his followers about "liberals rewriting history" by taking Confederate heroes' names off of things like U.S. military bases? Remember them insisting: "It is part of our history -- you can't just erase it!"? Well, turns out erasing things from history is just fine, at least in some instances. They've even tried to erase them from the acronym, in fact:
"The Stonewall Uprising on June 28, 1969 is a milestone in the quest for LGB civil rights and provided momentum for a movement," the [Stonewall National Monument] site read on Thursday after the letters for "transgender" and "queer" were removed.
Demonstrators emphasized the explicitly trans history of the landmark, commemorating the riots led by transgender activists including Marsha P. Johnson and Sylvia Rivera, who revolted against police amid an attempted raid of the Stonewall Inn, a gay bar.
"Stonewall would not be Stonewall without the T," trans demonstrator Chloe Elentari told Salon.
Demonstrators gathered today at the site with signs saying things like: "You can't spell history without a T."
Twitter kicking an objectionable post or a user off their site is not censorship. This is censorship, plain and simple (and quite Orwellian). "We don't approve of you, so we are just going to erase you from history." Couldn't get any plainer, really. It is (for now) still allowable to mention "L.G.B. civil rights" (even though nobody uses this truncated acronym), but who knows? Tomorrow we might just decide to get rid of one more letter from it. After all, when you start throwing things from history down the memory hole, it's easy to get carried away.
This has all happened in the past week, mind you. And it doesn't even count things like the Trump administration pulling funding from schools because they have COVID vaccine mandates (which is a different sort of censorship, and also puts the lie to the claim that Republicans revere local control of schools above all else).
This isn't the only way they're going to do exactly what they've been upset about for decades, now. Here's another reaction (which also points out the Orwellian nature of all this) to the upcoming changes at the Department of Education (emphasis in original):
One presidential order titled "Ending the Weaponization of the Federal Government" calls for weaponizing the federal government against itself. Another titled "Ending Radical Indoctrination in K-12 Schooling" demands that "patriotic education" be taught to children.
"Forced patriotism is indoctrination -- those words are synonyms," said Lee Rowland, a First Amendment attorney and the executive director of the National Coalition Against Censorship, a nonpartisan nonprofit devoted to free speech. She said that the education executive order "is a perfect encapsulation of what we are seeing out of this administration so far, which is to diminish rights while claiming as a matter of pure rhetoric that they are increasing them."
No explanation has been given as to how the Department of Education is now going to police patriotic education and vaccine schedules if it completely disappears -- which is a stated goal of the Trump administration as well. They'll cross that bridge when they blow it up, we suppose.
Speaking of doing things they once hated, Trump and his followers have been ranting about how liberals force everybody to use idiotic terms, but that "Gulf of Mexico" idiocy apparently didn't go far enough for some. One enterprising Republican has now introduced a bill to Congress to rename "Greenland" as "Red, White, And Blueland." You just couldn't make this stuff up if you tried, folks.
Trump has been getting more and more pushback from federal judges, who have been issuing stays and other rulings blocking some of the worst things Trump has attempted to do. In the past week alone, here is what federal judges have done:
Blocked Elon Musk's minions from sensitive Treasury Department files and computer systems.
Slapped down Trump's attempts to ignore a previous order ending Trump's freeze on all federal grants and payments (also upheld by an appeals court ruling, signifying this one might get to the Supreme Court first).
Blocked (yet again, as multiple judges have now done so) Trump's rewriting of the birthright citizenship clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.
Blocked slashing funding for the N.I.H.
Ordered the CDC and the FDA to restore websites with valuable medical information.
Blocked Trump's trans healthcare bans for children.
Reinstated a government watchdog who had been summarily fired by Trump.
This last one included a sharp message from Judge Amy Berman Jackson, who wrote of the illegal firing of Hampton Dellinger, the head of the Office of Special Counsel (an "agency that enforces whistleblower protections and political corruption laws") the following:
There are no facts to suggest that an order maintaining Dellinger in the role he occupied for the past year would have a "disruptive" effect on any administrative process; if anything, it would be his removal that is disruptive, as he suggests.
. . .
[A]ny disruption to the work of the agency was occasioned by the White House. It's as if the bull in the china shop looked back over his shoulder and said, "What a mess!"
The Washington Post has a page up now that tracks the current status of key lawsuits against the Trump administration, but it doesn't list all of them.
Things have gotten so bad that the American Bar Association posted a statement titled: "The ABA Supports The Rule Of Law." It does not mince words denouncing what has been going on:
It has been three weeks since Inauguration Day. Most Americans recognize that newly elected leaders bring change. That is expected. But most Americans also expect that changes will take place in accordance with the rule of law and in an orderly manner that respects the lives of affected individuals and the work they have been asked to perform.
Instead, we see wide-scale affronts to the rule of law itself, such as attacks on constitutionally protected birthright citizenship, the dismantling of USAID and the attempts to criminalize those who support lawful programs to eliminate bias and enhance diversity.
We have seen attempts at wholesale dismantling of departments and entities created by Congress without seeking the required congressional approval to change the law. There are efforts to dismiss employees with little regard for the law and protections they merit, and social media announcements that disparage and appear to be motivated by a desire to inflame without any stated factual basis. This is chaotic. It may appeal to a few. But it is wrong. And most Americans recognize it is wrong. It is also contrary to the rule of law.
As if to prove their point, this week Trump directed the halt of all enforcement of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act and told New York City Mayor Eric Adams he wouldn't have to go to trial before the next election. Making bribery great again! Woo hoo!
Senator Chris Murphy has never exactly been our idea of a firebrand. He's one of those politicians who usually is pretty calm and restrained in what he says, meaning he's also a senator most people have never even heard of. But this week, he was a lot more visible and a lot more intense in his tone, and for that -- for being out there fighting the good fight, one might say -- Murphy is the winner of this week's Most Impressive Democrat Of The Week award.
Murphy appeared on the Sunday political shows (and made other television appearances) and strongly stood up for how dangerous the concept of Trump ignoring the rule of law truly is. This was after several hints from Trump, Elon Musk, and Vice President JD Vance that the easiest thing for them to do might be to just ignore court rulings that they don't like.
Murphy pushed back, hard:
"This isn't hyperbole to say that we are staring the death of democracy in the eyes right now. The centerpiece of our democracy is that we observe court rulings," [Senator Chris Murphy] said. "No one is above the law, and whether we like it or not, the courts interpret the law."
. . .
"If the president isn't bound by our laws and the Constitution, then why would anybody else be bound by our laws and the Constitution?" Murphy asked. "This is a really dire moment."
In a separate interview with the Washington Post, Murphy encouraged other Democrats to start naming names instead of just vaguely speaking of "billionaires."
"I don't think economic populism really sells to anybody unless you're naming names. When you engage in sort of just general critiques of billionaires or special interests, I think that falls flat," [Senator Chris] Murphy said. "Donald Trump is really good at naming enemies, particular individuals or particular groups."
Now, less than three weeks into Trump's second term, Murphy is pushing Democrats to adopt a more aggressive approach that specifically targets the president's infatuation with billionaire CEOs. The top villain should be Elon Musk, given his role in trying to slash the bureaucracy.
"I don't think you can avoid him. And he is a proxy for the broader corruption, which is the handover of our government to billionaires and the theft of wealth and resources from ordinary Americans to make the billionaires happier," Murphy said during a 40-minute interview Thursday in his Senate office.
While many other Democratic politicians have been notable mainly for being completely absent from the conversation over what is happening, Murphy seems to have stepped up (and in a big way). Since we would sincerely like to encourage some other Democrats to do so as well, Murphy is our Most Impressive Democrat Of The Week this week.
[Congratulate Senator Chris Murphy on his Senate contact page, to let him know you appreciate his efforts.]
Um... all the Democrats who haven't been giving interviews on television?
(Sigh.)
Snark aside, we have to give the Most Disappointing Democrat Of The Week this week to New York City Mayor Eric Adams.
Adams is now about as compromised as a politician can get. He was facing charges of bribery, but these charges were then dropped by Attorney General Pam Bondi -- which caused the resignation of multiple people in the prosecutors' office as a direct result. These are the first of what is likely to be many such resignations, in the face of Trump and Bondi doing exactly what they said they hated: weaponizing the Department of Justice against their political enemies.
Adams, of course, is a Democrat. But he has been saying nice things about Trump pretty much ever since he was charged with bribery, and it paid off. But now he will be forced to knuckle under to Trump's crackdown on immigration, or face the charges suddenly being revived (they were dismissed "without prejudice," meaning the case can start up again at any time).
Almost immediately, Team Trump yanked back over $80 million that had already been deposited in N.Y.C.'s bank accounts, because it was supposed to pay for the housing of immigrants.
So what is Adams going to do? Fight back? Hardly. He is now under the thumb of Trump and (as we said) about as compromised as a politician can get.
Which is why he's also our winner for the Most Disappointing Democrat Of The Week. He could have easily avoided all of this, as the prosecutors did: by resigning, rather than participating in a nakedly partisan manipulation of the legal system, but he didn't. He stuck around, and now he will forever be seen as nothing more than a Trump lackey for doing so.
[Contact New York City Mayor Eric Adams on his official contact page, to let him know what you think of his actions.]
Volume 783 (2/14/25)
Another mixed bag of a week, and that's without even commenting on all the censorship detailed at the start of this column.
We did throw in the most amusing thing we've heard in quite a while at the end, just to leave everyone with a smile on their faces. Enjoy!
Trump looks small next to President Elon
This was just bizarre, when you get right down to it.
"Donald Trump got miffed that Time magazine ran a cover showing Elon Musk behind the presidential Resolute desk. So he held a press conference with Musk, where Trump was pointedly sitting behind the desk while Elon stood a few steps in the background. But the whole thing just backfired on Trump, because it was 'President Musk' who did most of the talking to the press, and Trump just sat there looking small and weak, while Musk's young son picked his nose in front of him. If Trump is smart, he won't stage this sort of thing again, because all it did was reinforce the fact that Elon is truly the one in charge in the Oval Office."
Inflation is up
OK, sure -- the January numbers aren't quite fair, since Joe Biden was president for two-thirds of the month. Nevertheless, this drum needs beating as relentlessly as Democrats can manage, so why not start now?
"Did you see that inflation is going up again? Prices are up for gas, for groceries, and for used cars. The price of eggs went up by over 15 percent in one month -- which all American consumers are seeing at the grocery store. And what has Trump done to get prices down? Absolutely nothing. He promised he'd bring everyone's prices down starting on Day One, but here we are almost a month out and he still hasn't lifted a finger -- because he has no idea what to do. His only answer is to threaten the rest of the world with tariffs -- which will do nothing more than drive prices even higher for American consumers. When Trump told the voters he'd bring prices down, it was nothing more than a big fat lie, folks."
$500 million in food rotting away
This should really be universally condemned.
"Trump likes to talk about 'waste' in government spending, but he is currently overseeing almost half a billion dollars in food rotting away in warehouses rather than being given to starving people worldwide -- right after firing the guy that had the temerity to point this massive waste out to the public. Because President Musk decided to attack U.S.A.I.D., all of these shipments have been halted. This has left tons and tons of food just wasting away inside warehouses worldwide. While people starve. Because the food can't be distributed to them. This isn't just waste -- it is downright inhumane and cruel. But that's what Trump wanted, so that's what he got. This is food paid for by your tax dollars, folks, and it should be criminal how Trump is just wasting it all."
Screwing farmers and consumers
We wrote about what's been going on with farmers (and what Democrats should say about it) at length earlier this week, if anyone's interested.
"President Elon and Donald Trump are not stopping waste, fraud, and abuse -- instead they are busy screwing over farmers and consumers. Farmers are not getting payments they had been promised, and Musk hasn't even gotten around to gutting the Department of Agriculture yet. Maybe he'll just halt all farm subsidies, on a whim -- who knows? At this point it wouldn't surprise me in the least. Meanwhile, President Musk wants to turn his social media site into a bank, so he eviscerated the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau -- the agency that protects people from banks and bank fees and banking scams. So rather than getting rid of 'waste, fraud, and abuse,' Musk is instead eliminating those who police the waste, fraud, and abuse of American consumers. All so he can make a buck, without any oversight at all. Bring on the fraud and abuse, because there is no cop on that beat anymore, thanks to Elon Musk."
Screwing the poor and working class
This is going to be a bigger deal in the next few weeks, but why not start early?
"Republicans in Congress are finally putting together their budget ideas. They can be summed up as 'screw the poor, screw the working class, screw the middle class -- because we've got to give tons and tons of tax breaks to the ultra-rich.' They like to talk about 'fiscal responsibility' but their tax cutting plans are going to blow a gigantic hole in the deficit and national debt. They're going to try to paper this over with pretend math, but don't get fooled. To pay for some of it, they're going to attack Medicaid and other programs that are a lifeline to working class families. Millions of people who voted for Trump are about to get paid back by having their healthcare snatched away from them -- all so Elon Musk can get a big tax break."
About as well as you'd expect
Speaking of giving things away....
"Donald Trump and Pete Hegseth have entered into negotiations with Russia's Vladimir Putin to end the war in Ukraine, and it's going about as well as you'd expect. Which is to say, they're already caving to Russian demands -- before the negotiations even begin. Trump couldn't even say if Ukraine should be involved in the talks when asked about it this week. He's just going to sit down with his buddy Putin and give him everything he wants. Hegseth went even further, telling Putin it's really just a matter of how much Ukrainian territory Russia will wind up with. Which, as I said, is pretty much exactly what everyone expected was going to happen, with Trump being in Putin's pocket."
Where do we sign?!?
And finally, a bit of comic relief to end on here.
"There's a petition in Denmark with over 250,000 signatures on it already, for their country to go ahead and buy California for a trillion dollars. As they put it in their petition: 'Most people say we have the best freedom. Colossal freedom.' Sounds pretty good, right? This is in response to Trump coveting Greenland, of course, but speaking as a Californian, I have to say: Where do we sign? They're offering universal healthcare for all, 'fact based politics,' and a lifetime supply of Danish pastries to boot! I mean, what's not to love?!?"
-- Chris Weigant
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
Cross-posted at: Democratic Underground
maybe the Netherlands could buy back New York. New New Amsterdam, anyone?
TPs #2 - 5 have hardhitting taglines and (cross fingers) the intended audience will pay attention.
WTF is the 'clickbait' of #6? While the content is important, the 'talking point' omits "Ukraine"?!?!
And speaking of #6, I haven't seen any article connecting Trump 1.0 handing Afghanistan over to the Taliban (and leaving the US-installed government OUT of the negotiations) to the Trump 2.0 "lengthy and highly productive phone call with Putin. Is it because Democrats are STILL blaming Biden for the disastrous withdrawal from Kabul? Believe me, the GOP would be laying the blame on thick if Biden had "lit the fuse" and Trump merely let it explode.
Concrete examples of Americans getting 'screwed', as opposed to general GOP policy statements being discussed, will be very effective.
For example, the smoke in southern CA has barely cleared when Trump fires the people who prevent fires.
'While firefighter jobs appear to be unaffected, other roles that support wildfire prevention are being cut. Employees who work on road and trail maintenance, timber production and watershed restoration are also impacted.'
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/13/forest-services-fires-3400-employees-00204213
It's also frustrating that, to my knowledge, no one's "connecting the dots" between the mass layoffs and the GOP plan to extend Trump's 2017 tax cuts.
"Thousands of your friends and neighbors lose their jobs so Elon Musk and his fatcat friends can pay even LESS in taxes."
Am I too naive to hope that Talking Points for at least some of these contests appear before November 2025? The GOP remains focused on winning at EVERY level, while the liberal chattering class remains fixated on AOC, Eric Adams, and the next governor of CA. Americans in most of the rest of the nation will continue to vote against their own interests - and to send Trump-beholden politicians to Washington.
'Virginia and New Jersey feature contests for governor. Elections in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania could tip the power balance on the Supreme Court in those battleground states.'
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/02/us/politics/2025-elections-what-to-watch.html
JL,
You have already conceded that your POF analogy is fatally flawed.
You concede that there is NOTHING in PRESIDENT Trump that makes him ANY KIND of Professor Gill..
Although I DO see it as you giving a nice compliment to PRESIDENT Trump..
But the fact is your entire analogy falls apart on that basis alone.
The fact that ELON has absolutely NOTHING in common with Melakon is simply sauce for the goose...
How do we KNOW this for a FACT???
Because ya'all woke progressive Democrats LOVED ELON MUSK...
When he was up smoking pot and making things green with EVs and stuff like that, you woke progressive Democrats LOVED Elon Musk...
JUST LIKE ya'all Democrats LOVED Donald Trump
You seeing the pattern JL??? :D
So, we're agreed.. Your POF analogy is totally flawed and completely without ANY sort of merit whatsoever.
As any TRUE Star Trek aficionado will tell you..
What?? Victoria Troll agrees with you??
BBBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Da bitch can't even name the original 13 starships or their naval construct contract numbers without googling it..
And yer holding up THAT bimbo!!!????
BBBBWWWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You really have tripped down WAY down into the abyss, eh??
:eyeroll:
Comparing Elon Musk and Melakon: A Study in Leadership and Ideology
In the realm of popular culture, characters often serve as reflections of societal fears and aspirations. Melakon, a character from the Star Trek: The Original Series episode "Patterns of Force," embodies the archetype of a ruthless authoritarian leader, while Elon Musk, the real-life entrepreneur and innovator, represents a different kind of leadership. This essay explores the fundamental differences between Musk and Melakon, focusing on their ideologies, methods of influence, and the impact of their actions on society.
Ideological Foundations
Melakon is a product of a totalitarian regime that seeks to impose its will through fear and oppression. His character is steeped in the ideology of Nazi Germany, advocating for a militaristic and authoritarian society. Melakon's actions are driven by a desire for power and control, often at the expense of individual freedoms and ethical considerations. He represents a worldview where might makes right, and dissent is met with violence.
In stark contrast, Elon Musk's ideology is rooted in innovation, progress, and the betterment of humanity. Musk has consistently advocated for the advancement of technology to solve pressing global issues, such as climate change and space exploration. His companies, including Tesla and SpaceX, aim to create sustainable energy solutions and make life multi-planetary. Musk's vision is inclusive, seeking to inspire collaboration and creativity rather than impose control through fear.
Methods of Influence
Melakon wields power through intimidation and coercion. He is willing to resort to violence to maintain the status quo and eliminate opposition. His leadership style is authoritarian, characterized by a lack of empathy and a singular focus on the regime's goals. This approach leads to a society marked by oppression, where individual rights are sacrificed for the sake of the state.
Conversely, Musk's influence stems from his ability to inspire and motivate others. He is known for his charismatic leadership style, which encourages innovation and risk-taking. Musk often engages with the public through social media, sharing his vision and inviting feedback. For example, his use of Twitter to communicate directly with fans and critics alike demonstrates a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than silence dissent. This open approach fosters a culture of creativity and collaboration within his companies, contrasting sharply with Melakon's oppressive tactics.
Impact on Society
The consequences of Melakon's actions are dire, leading to suffering and oppression for the inhabitants of Ekos and Zeon. His regime's militaristic policies result in conflict and a loss of individual freedoms, showcasing the dangers of unchecked power. The episode serves as a cautionary tale about the perils of authoritarianism and the importance of safeguarding democratic values.
In contrast, Musk's impact on society has been largely positive, particularly in the realms of technology and sustainability. Tesla's electric vehicles have revolutionized the automotive industry, pushing traditional manufacturers to adopt greener practices. SpaceX has made significant strides in reducing the cost of space travel, with the goal of making space exploration accessible to all. Musk's initiatives have sparked discussions about renewable energy, artificial intelligence, and the future of humanity, encouraging a collective effort to address global challenges.
Conclusion
In summary, the differences between Elon Musk and Melakon are stark and significant. While Melakon represents the archetype of a tyrannical leader who imposes his will through fear and oppression, Musk embodies a vision of leadership that prioritizes innovation, collaboration, and the betterment of society. The contrasting ideologies, methods of influence, and societal impacts of these two figures highlight the importance of ethical leadership in shaping the future. As we navigate the complexities of modern society, it is crucial to recognize the value of leaders who inspire positive change rather than those who seek to control through authoritarian means.
As I have proven beyond ANY POSSIBLE DOUBT, JL...
Musk is NOTHING like Melakon..
The FACTS prove that beyond ANY doubt....
Your lame and factually inaccurate POF analogy is nothing but a failed attempt to tarnish Star Trek TOS...
It's what woke progressive Democrats do.. Take something that is beautiful and awesome and then trash it all to hell..
Look what ya'all did with STD... :eyeroll:
It was so bad they had to relegate it Alternate Universe status..
Caddy,
I have determined that the calm and reasonable disgusting dishonorably discharged scumbag druggie child rapist happens when you are clean and sober and NOT Stoned/High..
Conversely the disgusting dishonorably discharged scumbag druggie child rapist who is foul mouthed and spews nothing but lies is the one I am talking to when you are 10 sheets to the wind stoned and/or high..
Knowing that all your bile and BS comes from you being your normal disgusting druggie child rapist self, it makes it that much easier to ignore..
When you are NOT high AF you are normal and rational..
Well.. As normal and rational as a disgusting dishonorably discharged scumbag druggie child rapist can be.
It's no wonder your wife left you, Caddy.. Who would want to stick around with such a disgusting dishonorably discharged scumbag druggie child rapist luser??
If you weren't the child rapist you are, you would be worthy of pity...
Now yer just pathetic and your best option you have to is to go lose yourself in the desert and die...
Do society a favor, Cad... Take that option..
@m,
you're very long winded and completely incoherent. elon musk is closer to being mELakON than any human ever. Donald has some aspects of John Gill but not others. your inability to observe these very obvious similarities is not surprising, given your apparent hero worship of both men, which is in no way less ridiculous simply because SOME Democrats once fell for the same scam as today's maga faithful.
@Rusty,
perhaps a better title for #6 would be, "Neville Chamberlain called..."
JL
CW,
This is not "censorship," as both we and many others pointed out, at the time. A social media company is a private entity, and what they allow or don't allow on their sites is their own business, plain and simple. Twitter was not "the public square," period. No First Amendment rights were being trampled upon by any of it.
EXCEPT...
It **IS** censorship and a violation of the 1st Amendment if said social media company is PRESSURED into censoring it's content by the GOVERNMENT..
And THAT is *EXACTLY* what occurred here..
How do we know this??
Because the Social Media companies TOLD us it happened..
The TWITTER FILES exposed the woke progressive Democrats orders to TWITTER to censor certain users like PRESIDENT Trump and hundreds of others..
2010 CW would recognize that immoral Constitutional violations in a stone cold second and scream about those violations to the highest mountain..
2025 CW WANTS those immoral violations in place!!
#sad
Facebook?? We know for a FACT that Biden officials would call up Facebook and hysterically THREATEN facebook officials if they didn't censor facts that the woke progressive Biden Administration didn't want getting out..
So, sorry CW...
It is complete and utter bullshit when you try to evade responsibility with the claim that media companies are private entities...
They were private entities that were being coerced and threatened by the woke progressive Biden administration to impose censorship..
EVEN FEDERAL JUDGES have stated this for the record..
As such, they are CLEAR VIOLATIONS of the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution..
I am actually surprised you would put forth such a lame and completely fact-less argument..
But I guess I shouldn't be so surprised..
Apparently, 2025 JL and 2025 CW have a lot in common..
A complete lack of FACTS and OBJECTIVE REALITY to support their claims...
:eyeroll:
Real censorship comes when the government tries to police free speech.
Which is **EXACTLY** what happened when the government pressured and coerced the social media companies to censor their users..
The FACTS that prove this are as plentiful as they are conclusive..
You are COMPLETELY, UNEQUIVOCALLY and FACTUALLY **WRONG** on this, 2025 CW..
I mean, it's actually comes as a surprise on HOW badly and blatantly you are wrong on this.
I am guessing that you had to ignore these pesky FACTS or else your entire Friday commentary would fall apart worse and more cataclysmicly than JL's POF analogy...
And THAT says something... :^/
As far as your hysterical claims about PRESIDENT Trump and his "censorship"...
It's not CENSORSHIP when web pages are altered so they provide FACTS instead of woke progressive Democrat bullshit like a man can be a woman or a woman can be a wolf..
That's not censorship.. That's just facts and getting rid of the lies of the woke progressive Biden Administration..
Only a ignorant MORON with NO FACTS or OBJECTIVE REALITY would call that censorship..
I'm just sayin'..
Yer TPs are so off the wall and factually not accurate they're not even worth bothering with..
Just a continued plethora of crow eating and sour grapes munching because YOUR woke progressive Democrats couldn't even win an election from a CONVICTED FELON!!!
BBBBBWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
How sad and pathetic are your woke progressive Democrats that they couldn't beat a convicted felon!!???
I guess the American voters decided by a considerably GREAT MANDATE that the BIGGER crooks were the woke progressive Democrats!!! :D
Howz THAT for Karma!!! :D
JL,
you're very long winded and completely incoherent. elon musk is closer to being mELakON than any human ever.
Yea, that's what you keep saying..
And have provided ZERO facts to support..
On the other hand, I have given you an EXTRAVAGANZA of FACTS that PROVE Elon and Melakon are diametric opposites..
And we KNOW this to be factually accurate because YOU WOKE PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS said the exact same thing about Elon..
Shall we peruse the Weigantia archives and find all the commentaries praising Musk?? Going gaga over Musk??
Will THAT convince you as to how factually and objectively you are wrong??
Of course not.. Because you are making an emotional determination based on woke progressive Democrat ideology...
An ideology that can NEVER admit when it's wrong.
But comment #8 proves you completely and utterly WRONG on every point..
Donald has some aspects of John Gill but not others.
Again, it's sweet that you want to say nice things about PRESIDENT Trump, but there is no Donald Trump in John Gill and there is no John Gill in Donald Trump..
My admiration of both men is based on FACTS and OBJECTIVE REALITY. Ergo it's not hero worship but rather an UNDERSTANDING of the objectively reality of both of their specific universes and their roles played in shaping their respective realities..
It's something that a woke progressive Democrat could NEVER understand..
And DOGE is still at it!!! :D
DOGE has dug up another $1.9 billion in taxpayer money 'misplaced' by Biden admin
Announcement comes a day after HUD Secretary Scott Turner announced the creation of a DOGE Task Force at his agency
The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE), the Elon Musk-led group tasked with eliminating wasteful spending, on Friday said it found $1.9 billion that was misplaced by the Biden administration.
The funds were from the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) and have been recovered.
"$1.9 billion of HUD money was just recovered after being misplaced during the Biden administration due to a broken process. These funds were earmarked for the administration of financial services, but were no longer needed," a DOGE post on X stated.
It's AMAZING how badly woke progressive Democrats actually govern!!
They just leave BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars lying around and giving it to ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT CRIMINALS...
It's no wonder woke progressive Democrats lost!!
No American who is ACTUALLY an American wants to see woke progressive Democrats come within a country mile of government power ever again!!
And PRESIDENT Trump is STILL kicking Hamas' ass all over Israel!! :D
Hamas frees 3 more hostages in exchange for more than 300 prisoners as part of ceasefire deal with Israel
The released hostages were Iair Horn, Sagui Dekel-Chen and Sasha Troufanov
The hostages released were Alexander (Sasha) Troufanov, 29; Sagui Dekel-Chen, 36, and Iair Horn, 46. Troufanov has Israeli and Russian citizenship, Dekel-Chen is an American-Israeli and Horn is a dual citizen of Israel and Argentina.
The three were abducted by Hamas from Kibbutz Nir Oz in the terror group's Oct. 7, 2023, attack against Israel that sparked the war in Gaza now under ceasefire.
Israeli authorities confirmed they received the three hostages on Saturday after Hamas released them to the Red Cross. They appeared pale and worn but appeared to be in better physical condition than the three men released a week ago.
HAMAS is so scared shitless of PRESIDENT Trump they are falling all over themselves to get those hostages released..
It's funny that 2025 CW doesn't do ANY commentaries on how completely and utterly IMPOTENT the woke progressive Biden Administration was in dealing with HAMAS..
2010 CW would have pointed that out constantly and consistently...
Hell, PRESIDENT Trump was beating down HAMAS even BEFORE he took over the reins of leadership from woke progressive Biden...
***THAT*** is political power!!
And PRESIDENT Trump is the perfect American to wield it!!!
"So say we all...."
-The American People
Looks like Occasional Cortex is about the be thrown in jail!!! :D
Homan, AOC clash over webinar to help immigrants 'evade' ICE raids: 'I thought I educated her'
Homan suggested Ocasio-Cortez could be impeding ICE enforcement
"Let’s pray that she is not ‘educating’ the next murderer of a young college nursing student on how to evade arrest by ICE. How many more young women have to be raped, murdered and burned alive until she wakes up?"
Border Boss Tom Homan
Homan is working with the DOJ to determine if Occasional Cortex's helping murderers and rapists and druggies to evade law enforcement constitutes IMPEDING LAW ENFORCEMENT EFFORTS which is a felony...
I would LOVE to see Occasional Cortex thrown in jail.. Maybe she could use her bartender skills... Maybe Occasional Cortex will have to resort to turning tricks in the very district that she let become a 3rd world shit hole..
Wouldn't THAT be the shitz, eh!!?? :D
Hope you love jail, Occasional Cortex!!! :D
BBBWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
If woke progressive Democrats had the sense that gods gave an amoeba, they would HELP DOGE find and eliminate all the waste, fraud and abuse...
I got to tell you, I was really embarrassed for my Democratic colleagues, Mr. Garcia and others, because the fact of the matter is this is not playing well around the country. People want the government to work better. They believe that Mr. Musk, one of the most extraordinary entrepreneurs in human history, who does not fail at just about anything, they want him to do this, most Americans. They wanted Trump. They elected him.
And I just would hope that my Democratic colleagues might change the strategy and perhaps actually work with Republicans to identify waste and fraud and actually attack that because then they would have some more credibility as it relates to the constitutional issues and the ones that are actually going to hurt human beings, including federal employees who are now being used as pawns.
So -- but that is how most Americans feel. But Democrats are not projecting that, and I'm deeply concerned about leadership right now.
Look, if I could wave my magic wand, I would also identify ways to reduce waste in the federal government. When I ran for president, Laura, that was one of my propositions, to engage one of the world's foremost consulting firms to literally look at the entire federal budget and make thoughtful recommendations to Congress about how we could actually become more efficient, more effective, and that was a proposition of mine.
Unfortunately, Democrats are only focused on one thing right now, Mr. Musk. The fact of the matter, he's quite popular. He has the largest platform in human history which is, of course, Twitter/X. And I think we're missing the boat as Democrats. And all I'm saying is that sometimes, it's better to join them and actually play a role in how the strategy works rather than so pathetically, frankly, try to combat something that clearly is a steamroller, and Democrats are being steamrolled. I'm deeply concerned about that.
-Dean Phillips Democrat Candidate For President
I bet woke progressive Democrats are wishing they would have gone with THIS guy instead of Biden or Token DEI Hire Headboard Harris, eh?? :D
Woke progressive Democrats are getting ABSOLUTELY HAMMERED on this issue..
PRESIDENT Trump and Musk are the GOOD guys here.. They are the super heroes who are out there getting shit done!!
And woke progressive Democrats are the lame luser scumbags who are PROTECTING the waste!! PROTECTING the fraud.. PROTECTING the abuse!!!
Woke progressive Democrats are the Borg and PRESIDENT Trump and Musk epitomize all that is decent and good in STARFLEET and The Federation...
This is what patriotic Americans are seeing..
And NO amount of hysterical lies and bullshit and baseless and factless Trek analogies will change that basic FACT..
Woke progressive Democrats are the disease...
And PRESIDENT Trump and DOGE are the cure...
"So say we all..."
Where is JMCT today???
Where is the COMPLETE luser who "can't wait for the next pandemic.."??? Who is EXCITED about seeing MILLIONS and MILLIONS of Americans in a "mass deaths??"
Maybe he's realized what a COMPLETE monster and LUSER he has become by supporting woke progressive Democrats..
Maybe he has FINALLY come to the realization that his bile and vomit was nothing but poorly disguised Trump/America Hate and PTDS and has become sickened by it...
MAYBE he realizes that PRESIDENT Trump is where it's at and it's going to be PRESIDENT Trump and DOGE who is going to usher in a new American Golden Era..
Maybe John M in CT. his finally accepted the FACTS and the OBJECTIVE REALITY....
NAAAAAWWWWW... He would NEVER be THAT smart....
Anyone who would say they "can't wait for the next pandemic!!" and get EXCITED about Americans "mass deaths"???
They are a monster and completely and utterly irredeemable...
A complete waste of breath and skin... :eyeroll:
Here is what is happening in the here and now..
You people own a store.. That store gets robbed and BILLIONS of your hard earned dollars are taken.... STOLEN...
DOGE comes in to investigate and has video footage of the scumbag perps who robbed your store of BILLIONS of dollars and YOUR hard earned money..
Now ya'all are whining and crying and hysterically want DOGE arrested....
SOLELY and UNEQUIVOCALLY because DOGE discovered that it was your best friends who are stealing those BILLIONS of dollars of your hard earned money...
THAT is the woke progressive Democrat "logic" in this case..
THAT is the OBJECTIVE REALITY in this case..
YOU people are completely and utterly WHACKED in the head...
:eyeroll:
THE DEFINITION OF IRONY
People who cut their own son's dick off so he can "be a girl" and cut their own daughter's tits off so she can be "a boy" are saying, "ELON MUSK IS GOING TO FAR!!!"
How completely and utterly RETARDED are woke progressive Democrats???
:eyeroll:
And Hillary is the recipient of ANOTHER huge BURN!!!! :D
"If Republican leaders don't enjoy being called weird, creepy and controlling, they could try not to be weird, creepy and controlling"
-Hillary Clinton
"Hillary, you defended your 49 year old husband sticking a cigar in his 22 year old intern's vagina in the Oval Office.... Sit this one out, Hillary.."
-Mike Davis
What IS it about you woke progressive Democrats that you actually DEFEND the likes of Hillary and Bill Clinton???
:eyeroll:
ANOTHER definition of IRONY...
Retarded woke progressive Democrat morons are hysterical about 19yr olds working in DOGE..
Are the exact same retarded woke progressive Democrat morons who demanded everyone listen to an ignorant 13yr old little girl on climate issues..
:eyeroll:
As Joe Biden would say....
DOGE scores big court win, allowed access data on 3 federal agencies
Musk hailed the decision be reposting its news on X with the caption: 'LFG'
A federal judge in Washington on Friday handed Elon Musk's government efficiency team a win by declining a request to temporarily block it from accessing sensitive data from at least three federal agencies.
Unions and nonprofits attempted to stop Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) from accessing records at the Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services and the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.
U.S. District Judge John Bates wrote in an opinion that the government was likely correct in categorizing DOGE as an agency, thereby allowing it to detail its staff to other government departments.
"This is a big fucking deal!!"
:D
PRESIDENT Trump and America wins again!!! :D
One has to REALLY wonder how long woke progressive Democrats are going to keep taking it up the arse before they realize that they simply CANNOT win!!! :D
Of course, we all know that woke progressive Democrats LOVE taking it up the arse, so maybe they will simply keep doing the same failure over and over and over and over and over again.. :D
Well well well well...
Let's see what woke progressive Democrat water carrier NY SLIMES is saying....
Trump Might Have a Case on Birthright Citizenship
On his first day in office, President Trump issued an executive order that purports to end birthright citizenship for certain children. It does so despite Section 1 of the 14th Amendment, which declares, “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.”
The central question raised by Mr. Trump’s order is what it means to be “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States. The answer most legal observers give is that it includes virtually anyone born on American soil, including those whom the order is meant to exclude, namely children born to parents in the country illegally or temporarily. Indeed, on Monday, the American Bar Association described the order as an attack on a “constitutionally protected” right. Federal judges in four states have enjoined the order, with one claiming that it “conflicts with the plain language of the 14th Amendment.”
Not necessarily.
The Supreme Court has held, in the 1898 case United States v. Wong Kim Ark, that children born here to permanent residents are citizens. But it has never squarely held that children born to those illegally present are citizens. When the court addresses that question — which it almost certainly must — it should consider the 14th Amendment’s original purpose and the common-law principle of “jus soli,” or birthright citizenship, which informed the original public meaning of the text. Both relate to the idea of social compact and contradict today’s general assumption that the common-law principle depends solely upon place of birth.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/15/opinion/trump-birthright-citizenship.html
This is a WOKE PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT NEWS SOURCE saying this...
Looks like you woke progressive Democrats are completely and utterly ***WRONG***!!!!! AGAIN!!!!!
:D
Once again.. PRESIDENT Trump will WIN on birthright citizenship...
JUST as PRESIDENT Trump won on Roe v Wade!!!
You people CONTINUE to be complete and utter LUSERS... :D
Have Unlawful Entrants Given Allegiance?
Which brings us to the children of people who are present in the United States illegally. Has a citizen of another country who violated the laws of this country to gain entry and unlawfully remain here pledged obedience to the laws in exchange for the protection and benefit of those laws?
Clearly, the parents are not enemies in the sense of an invading army, but they did not come in amity. They gave no obedience or allegiance to the country when they entered — one cannot give allegiance and promise to be bound by the laws through an act of defiance of those laws. Such persons can even be summarily removed from the country without judicial procedures of the sort that would protect citizens. If the allegiance-for-protection view informed the original meaning of the text, then they and their children are therefore not under the protection or “subject to the jurisdiction” of the nation in the relevant sense.
The executive order’s exclusion of children born to mothers who are “lawful but temporary” residents is a more complicated question not addressed here. And whether Congress ought to grant naturalized citizenship to children born to those illegally present in the United States is a policy issue distinct from whether the 14th Amendment has already done so. The Supreme Court has, in a footnote, presumed that the 14th Amendment’s jurisdictional phrase applied equally to people who are here illegally, but the issue was neither briefed nor argued in that case; nor was it material to its outcome.
When they finally consider this question, the justices will find that the case for Mr. Trump’s order is stronger than his critics realize.
Gods, don't you people get totally and completely TIRED of being WRONG!!!?? About EVERYTHING!!???
:D
Putin and give him everything he wants. Hegseth went even further, telling Putin it's really just a matter of how much Ukrainian territory Russia will wind up with. Which, as I said, is pretty much exactly what everyone expected was going to happen, with Trump being in Putin's pocket."
This was going to be the outcome all along - it had nothing to do with Trump being in Putin's pocket. This was the obvious outcome since Ukraine stopped Russia from taking the whole country, a mere few months after the invasion began and nothing has really changed since then. Except, of course, for more death and destruction. If more intelligent heads had prevailed in the spring of 2022 and the advice of the Israeli mediator at the time had been followed instead of dismissed by Team Biden, the war would have ended then and Ukraine would be in a much better negotiating position than it will be now.
The same outcome would have eventually prevailed, even if Biden had stayed in the race and won. Of course, many more people would have died and more of Ukraine would have been destroyed but, the Biden administration never did care too much about that sort of thing. Just look at Gaza for proof of that.
Just reread that comment above [25] and would like to make a bit of an edit without an edit function. Heh
So, wherever there is a 'would', replace it with a 'could conceivably'.
Because 'could conceivably' is what I was actually thinking as I was tapping out 'would'.
There, fixed it! Without an edit function. :-)
nypoet22 [10] - that's a good one.
Living in Italia, I can now begin to understand firsthand how Gertrude Stein and other expats must have felt as they watched world leaders try to appease an expansionist dictator.
Worth remembering (but a scary thought): WWII began in September 1939, but the US didn't enter the war until December 1942.
So when Trump withdraws from NATO and Putin invades Europe, does that mean we will have no hope until at least 2028 - if ever?
To avoid seeming too much like a SECOND windbag in the comments section, I refrained yesterday from nominating my MDDOW:
All of the Senate Democrats for failing to convince block even 1n ONE of Trump's nominees.
Granted, the GOP politicians are now more scared of being "primaried" by Trump-endorsed candidates than in the wrath of their constituents. But surely the Democrats could have come up with some sound arguments about "country over party" or similar.
Sadly, Democrats are forever hoping that the nominee will be "Borked" (or perhaps "Gaetzed" is the more modern term) rather than forceful arguments about competence and existential threats to our nation.
Liz,
This was going to be the outcome all along - it had nothing to do with Trump being in Putin's pocket.
You are factually accurate, of course.
Because only a retarded woke progressive Democrat moron would actually believe that PRESIDENT Trump is actually in Putin's pocket..
There are simply ZERO facts to even SUGGEST such a ludicrous and unfounded claim.. :eyeroll:
This was the obvious outcome since Ukraine stopped Russia from taking the whole country, a mere few months after the invasion began and nothing has really changed since then. Except, of course, for more death and destruction.
Factually accurate...
If more intelligent heads had prevailed in the spring of 2022 and the advice of the Israeli mediator at the time had been followed instead of dismissed by Team Biden, the war would have ended then and Ukraine would be in a much better negotiating position than it will be now.
In other words, if woke progressive Democrats hadn't committed gross fraud to make it look like Biden had won the election, then PRESIDENT Trump would have still be POTUS and none of that would have happened..
Of course, many more people would have died and more of Ukraine would have been destroyed but, the Biden administration never did care too much about that sort of thing. Just look at Gaza for proof of that.
Thank you, woke progressive Democrats for fraking things up beyond all belief... :eyeroll:
Rusty,
So when Trump withdraws from NATO and Putin invades Europe, does that mean we will have no hope until at least 2028 - if ever?
If you honestly believe that PRESIDENT Trump will withdraw from NATO, I have some swampland in Florida I want to sell you... :eyeroll:
You are one of the VERY few Weigantians that can be logical and rational (myself, JL and Liz being the others) so let me put it to you logically and rationally..
Do you think that European Leaders are scared to have the US leave NATO?? Of course they are..
They are TERRIFIED of the US leaving NATO.. So TERRIFIED that they would do ANYTHING to prevent that from happening..
Up to AND INCLUDING actually FULFILLING their NATO membership obligations...
Since the European Leaders will capitulate and actually fulfill their NATO obligations, there won't be any reason for the US to leave NATO...
"Simple logic."
-Admiral James T Kirk
To avoid seeming too much like a SECOND windbag in the comments section,
Trust me son.. You have absolutely ZERO chance of even coming CLOSE to being a windbag here in Weigantia.. :D
I refrained yesterday from nominating my MDDOW:
All of the Senate Democrats for failing to convince block even 1n ONE of Trump's nominees.
Woke progressive Democrats are simply impotent and completely incapable of mounting even an IOTA of a token resistance to PRESIDENT Trump's onslaught..
The American voters has given PRESIDENT Trump a HUGE MANDATE and are completely and utterly behind PRESIDENT Trump 1000%..
Woke progressive Democrats know this.
Hence, their impotence..
rather than forceful arguments about competence and existential threats to our nation.
There are absolutely ZERO arguments against the competence or "threats" (:eyeroll: you are not helping your 'logical rational' label here IR) of PRESIDENT Trump's picks..
ZERO... NONE... NADA... ZIP....
"These are the facts of the case. And they are undisputed."
-Captain Smilin' Jack Ross, A FEW GOOD MEN
Hence... ZERO dispute from the Weigantian Peanut Gallery... :D
UNDISPUTED...
"Silence Gives Assent"
-Democrats
Woke progressive Democrats claim it's so ridiculous to be against trans women (def:a man who cosplays as a woman) because these days you can't even tell the difference between a trans woman and a real woman...
http://mfccfl.us/trans6.jpg
Woke progressive Democrats are full of shit...
Since ya'all love POLLS so much.. :D
More Democrats say they would like party to be more moderate: Gallup
Among Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents, 45 percent say they want their party to become more moderate, while 29 percent say they want the party to become more liberal, and 22 percent say they want the party to stay the same.
That represents a significant shift from four years ago, during the first week of President Biden’s term in office, when Gallup last asked the question.
In that 2021 survey, Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents were almost evenly divided: 34 percent wanted the party to become more moderate, 34 percent wanted the party to become more liberal and 31 percent said they wanted the party to stay the same.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5142843-democrats-shift-moderation-gallup/
This is the FACT that you woke progressive Democrats simply REFUSE to acknowledge...
The American people are sick and tired of woke progressive Democrat bullshit of DEI and TRANS bullshit..
You woke progressive Democrats have a very simple choice to make..
MODERATE....
or
DIE.....
"You must choose. But choose wisely. For as moderate will bring you everlasting life... Woke will bring you nothing but death and destruction."
-Knight, INDIANA JONES AND THE LAST CRUSADE
Paraphrased, of course...
Do ya'all want to know exactly WHY you woke progressive Democrats are so hysterical about DOGE??
Because ya'all realize that it's shit that yer woke progressive Democrats SHOULD have done... But didn't..
:eyeroll:
Now let's have some REAL fun!! :D
Let's do some FACT CHECKING on ya'all's and woke progressive Democrats claims.. :D
BULLSHIT LIE #1
"Musk has no right to cut USAID."
Elon Musk is NOT cutting **ANY** Federal programs whatsoever...
They are simply auditors. PRESIDENT Trump has given DOGE full and complete legal authority under a presidential executive order creating the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE).
Ultimately, DOGE can propose program cuts, but Trump holds the authority to approve or reject them. He may or may not act on all, some, or none of the DOGE recommendations.
So, ya'all's claim that Musk has no right to cut USAID is complete and utter BULLSHIT because Musk is not cutting **ANY** programs..
BULLSHIT LIE #2
"No one elected Musk."
Like literally HUNDREDS of government officials, Elon Musk was APPOINTED by PRESIDENT Trump to run an agency that does not require Senate confirmation.
Elon Musk is as legally legitimate as the national security advisor and his National Security Council, none of whom require Senate confirmation.
Do you morons believe former national security advisor Jake Sullivan, who made decisions far more pivotal than Musk, had no authority to do so because he too was neither elected nor confirmed by the Senate? DO YOU!!??? :eyeroll:
BULLSHIT LIE #3
"It is a dangerous precedent to give a private citizen billionaire like Musk so much power."
In fact, Elon Musk has far more legal authority than did FDR's best friend Harry Hopkins. Hopkins moved into the White House and de facto set U.S. foreign assistance policies toward Stalin's Russia.
Elon Musk's position is more akin to past captains of industry like Henry Ford, Henry Kaiser, and William Knudson appointed by FDR to run the wartime economy.
None of them were either elected or confirmed by the Senate. All of them helped to save a poorly armed U.S. after the debacle of Pearl Harbor.
Funny how ya'all woke progressive Democrats forget this historical precedent.. That's because you woke progressive Democrats don't THINK THINGS THRU!!!
BULLSHIT LIE #4
"Foreign aid is ending."
Not factually accurate by ANY stretch of the imagination..
Foreign aid, which in all its manifestations in various cabinets and agencies is reaching nearly $80 billion per year, is not ending.
One of its distribution centers, USAID, may be vastly curtailed or bundled into the State Department. But the important bulk grants to allies like Israel or friends like Egypt or aid in times of famine relief and natural disasters to the needy abroad will remain. And these programs will be strengthened and saved precisely because they will be trimmed of fraud and abuse and skimmers and scammers...
THANX TO DOGE
BULLSHIT LIE #4
"It is illegal to end USAID."
USAID was created by an executive order in 1961 by then President John F. Kennedy in response to congressional legislation codifying foreign aid and allowing the president to execute the statute at his discretion.
Nearly four decades later, in 1998, Congress passed another law reifying Kennedy's USAID as a formal agency but still within the executive branch.
But neither law mandates that PRESIDENT Trump bundle all or even most foreign aid in USAID. He can disperse money as he sees fit throughout the cabinets. And he can keep whatever funds or programs he chooses under the aegis of USAID should he wish.
It's all Part and Parcel to the Executive Branch and PRESIDENT can do WHATEVER HE WANTS with it and you woke progressive Democrats can't do SHIT about it!!
BULLSHIT LIE #5
"Trump cannot impound any USAID money legislated by Congress."
This is a LEGAL question.. Since ALL legal questions will end up before the SCOTUS, I think ya'all will agree that it will be a PRESIDENT Trump win..
Neither Congress nor the courts have ever, in blanket fashion, either approved and sustained a line-item presidential veto or outright banned any form of presidential impoundment.
But recently Joe Biden, as both vice president in 2016 and president in 2021, set a precedent that an administration most certainly can impound or delay congressionally passed funding as it pleases.
Infamously, Biden publicly bragged that on a trip to Ukraine, he had threatened that government by withholding $1 billion in approved U.S. foreign aid unless it immediately fired Biden enemy prosecutor Viktor Shokin.
That condition was never discussed in any congressional aid authorization (and was the sort of act the left would impeach Trump for in 2020).
More flagrantly in 2021, Biden abruptly and permanently stopped all construction on the border wall. And he impounded those congressionally approved construction funds through a variety of gimmicks.
Biden, remember, without Congressional approval, gratuitously canceled student loan obligations, issued blanket loan amnesties, and promised to ignore or work around court prohibitions of his illegal acts.
So it was ya'all's Biden who established the precedent that PRESIDENT Trump is acting under..
So, shut the fuck up about it..
BULLSHIT LIE #6
"China will be delighted by USAID cuts."
Not factually accurate.
China will be likely upset by the Trump cuts.
Beijing finds its own concrete development projects far more effective than USAID imposing American cultural agendas abroad. Beijing likes self-destructive American aid like LGBTQ activism, transgender chauvinism, and anti-conservative American media.
Does anyone believe China was angry that the USAID created a vast gender studies program at the University of Kabul or had the U.S. embassy there advertise its pride activism, or itself snagged $40 million to engineer deadly viruses?
So, China will be quite unhappy that organs like the New York Times and the BBC are having their USAID subsidies ended. After all, they, along with China, so often vilified their shared existential nemesis...
PRESIDENT Donald J. Trump.
There you have it people..
ALL of your hysterical BS claims fact checked and found to be COMPLETE and UTTER bullshit...
A lot of these facts come from REAL CLEAR which, as ya'all are certainly aware, is the ONLY **OFFICIAL** Weigantian news source as confirmed by 2010 CW hisself...
So let's see ya'all address these FACTS that totally decimate all of ya'all's hysterical BULLSHIT about Musk and DOGE...
{{{ccchhhiiiirrrrrpppp}}} {{{ccchhhiiirrrpppp}}}
Yea.. That's what I figgered...
"SILENCE GIVES ASSENT"
-Democrats
I accept ya'all's concession...
And to return full circle to the claim of this commentary that the Biden/Harris administration did not employ censorship??
BULLSHIT...
‘Fact-checking was a sham industry’
Robby Soave on why we should welcome the demise of the misinformation ‘experts’.
SPIKED
Reprinted With Permission
One of Donald Trump’s first executive orders promises to bring an end to the American government’s censorship of social media. Although the First Amendment forbids the state from censoring citizens’ speech, federal agencies would previously get around this by pressuring the tech platforms to censor content on their behalf. Entire topics, such as the Covid lab-leak theory or the Hunter Biden laptop scandal, were branded ‘misinformation’ by the state and then scrubbed from social media. A whole ‘censorship industrial complex’ of self-appointed fact-checkers, disinformation experts and ‘pro-democracy’ NGOs emerged to help enforce the state’s diktats. But what happens next? Could the era of Big Tech censorship finally be on its way out?
Robby Soave – senior editor of Reason and co-host of Rising – returned to The Brendan O’Neill Show to discuss all this and more. What follows is an edited extract from the conversation. Listen to the full thing here.
Brendan O’Neill: How are you feeling about the first few weeks of Donald Trump’s second presidency?
Robby Soave: I do find myself in a very unusual and frankly uncomfortable position of being happy with a lot of changes that are taking place in the government. I don’t know that I’ve ever been in that position in my entire life.
Initially, I wasn’t quite sure about Trump. We’ve already been through four years of Trump. Frankly, they weren’t that different from what you would have seen from any other Republican, or any other political figure. There was a lot of continuity in policies I don’t really like, so I was lukewarm for Trump running again this time. I thought he talked a good game on some stuff and was wild in other ways.
And then he came in and put Elon Musk in charge of cutting government waste. You’ve got a lot of the other tech titans who are, if not getting explicitly on board with Trump, becoming more favourable towards him. I don’t agree with everything he does by any stretch of the imagination, but there really does seem to be a desire to disempower the censors. That whole movement seems to be falling away.
O’Neill: One of Trump’s very good executive orders was on ‘ending federal censorship’. Do you think that ‘misinformation’ became a shield for what was essentially political censorship?
Soave: I like to say that misinformation is the new hate speech. Hate speech used to be the category of speech that allowed people to claim they supported free speech, while still censoring speech they didn’t like.
A red flag goes off for me every time I hear someone even use the word misinformation now, because it’s just a made-up category. It would be one thing if the supposed misinformation and disinformation experts had an above-average ability to spot bullshit. But almost every person who called themselves a misinformation or disinformation researcher got the major stories wrong, from the Covid-19 lab-leak theory to Hunter Biden’s laptop.
Even with companies like Meta getting rid of their fact-checkers, there’s been almost no self-reflection as to why that power has been taken away. The Facebook fact-checkers, particularly on topics like Covid and climate, were just activist groups that got things wrong all the time.
It’s really a sham industry that, unfortunately, gets a lot of funding – particularly government funding. The US State Department is funding disinfo-tracking groups across the world to tell American social-media companies that they shouldn’t run dissenting content. It’s horrible.
O’Neill: What do you make of Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) coming down hard on the US Agency for International Development (USAID)?
Soave: I would say that USAID can be substantially scrapped. The reason that DOGE has started this fight is because USAID is giving money to countries or humanitarian causes that are profoundly unpopular with Americans, regardless of their political persuasion.
For me, the conversation begins and ends with the fact that USAID was funding reckless, dangerous scientific research in Wuhan. I thought that had all been done under the National Institutes of Health, but actually USAID funded it, too.
Clearly, we need to do some auditing and accounting if this organisation was giving money to the facility that quite plausibly caused the Covid pandemic.
O’Neill: Now that the US seems to be changing in some quite palpable ways, what consequences do you think we’ll see in normally woke areas like university campuses?
Soave: When Trump won in 2016, there was an explosion of progressive activism. This time, it’s a lot quieter. So far, there has been no mobilisation on the streets, and not very much on college campuses.
My analysis is that the left is a much more fractured movement today than it was eight years ago, or even four years ago. I think Covid broke the left in a big way, and after Bernie Sanders exits the scene, there won’t be another leader to galvanise young progressives.
Young people are also turning towards the right. If you go back to 2005, what are you rebelling against as a young person? You’re rebelling against hegemonic Bushism, the Patriot Act and conservatives’ reflexive opposition to gay marriage. Now, your parents’ generation is a centre-left / liberal, rule-following elite that believes in experts and systems. To rebel against that is more likely to put you in the MAGA camp. There’s an energy among young people that’s not actually with the left – it’s with the right. What I am seeing right now is a left that is more de-energised than I have seen in my adult life.
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
As has been proven beyond ANY DOUBT with FACTS, the Biden/Harris administration did, indeed, engage in censorship..
They simply called it another name..
Even Federal Judges have ruled that Biden/Harris engaged in censorship...
I am actually somewhat taken aback that 2025 CW would make such an egregious error...
Perhaps his PTDS is getting much much worse... :^(
Recent DOGE audits has revealed the recent finding that Congress allocated at least $516 billion for federal programs with expired authorizations in fiscal year 2024.
DOGE reports Congress funded 1,264 zombie programs this year.
Half of them expired at least 10 years ago, and one has not been authorized since 1980. Yet your woke progressive Democrats STILL funded these programs last year..
Get that!?? These programs EXPIRED TEN FRAKING YEARS AGO and your woke progressive Democrats are STILL funding them!! To the tune of over HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS!!!!!
DOGE analysts were only able to find dollar amounts for 491 of the programs, totaling 516 BILLION dollars. It is unknown how much funding the other 773 programs received.
So, it's likely that a few TRILLION DOLLARS have been wasted by woke progressive Democrats paying for programs that expired over a DECADE ago!!!
And you want to know the SAD thing?? All of this has been going on in plain sight.
Almost nobody thought to pay any attention to it.
Journalists share much of the blame for this failure.
PRESIDENTTrump and DOGE have upended all of that. Their relentless pursuit of transparency and accountability has made math sexy again. The steady stream of figures being released on X through accounts such as @DOGE and @DataRepublican (small r) is the greatest show on earth right now as they lift the veil on massive problems. Their work evokes the old hymn, I once “was blind, but now I see.”
Here are some of the most RIDICULOUS things that Biden and Harris and woke progressive Democrats have been paying for..
Millions and MILLIONS of dollars to LBGTQAEIOUXYZABC groups in Serbia and Guatemala.
TENS of THOUSANDS of dollars for Transgender Opera in Colombia.
Are you FRAKING kidding me!!!???
THIS is what you woke progressive Democrats think Americans' tax dollars should go for!!!
Again, I have to ask..
ARE YOU FRAKING KIDDING ME!!!???
And you people wonder why your woke progressive Democrats got their asses kicked so badly!!???
It boggles the mind!!!
And do ya'all want to know the BIGGEST boggle of the mind??
You people are hysterically opposed to DOGE!!
INSANITY... Pure unadulterated certifiable INSANITY...
:eyeroll:
JL,
Donald has some aspects of John Gill but not others. your inability to observe these very obvious similarities is not surprising,
OF COURSE it's "not surprising"..
You haven't LISTED any similarities...
So how can I observe what you haven't even listed..
Do you expect me to read your mind for these alleged similarities???
:eyeroll:
Do ya'all want to know exactly how BAD you and your woke progressive Democrats are losing???
GOOGLE just removed PRIDE MONTH from it's Calendar App!! :D
Ya'all just HAVE to know how badly ya'all lost when you lose GOOGLE as a woke/DEI progressive ally... :D
And let's get some info from woke progressive Democrat Water Carrier CNN... :D
Democrats confront their powerlessness as Trump flexes authority
Amid Democrats’ shock and bickering over how much to respond to President Donald Trump is a deeper question rippling through leaders across the Capitol and across the country: How much should they rely on the same institutional and procedural maneuvers they used during the first Trump term, and how much are they willing to wield their own wrecking balls?
Democrats remain essentially leaderless, with prospective future presidential candidates largely sitting back and allowing others to be the first ones through the buzzsaw of Trump and his cheerleaders, none eager to be the face of a party just yet. They are disconnected from the Democratic National Committee, where the Obama-era rallying cry of “Yes We Can!” became the watered down facsimile slogan “Yes We Ken!” for Ken Martin, the largely unknown insider who emerged as the winner of the recent chair race that the party’s most prominent figures avoided.
Those Democrats left trying to take charge doubt the slower court challenges can keep up with the rapid, precision onslaught mounting each day from presidential appointees and associates of Elon Musk. For whatever judgments do come out in their favor, many believe – though few will yet say so publicly – that Trump may soon just start ignoring what he doesn’t like, and they’ll have no recourse.
It would be poetic justice if PRESIDENT Trump DID start ignoring the lower courts until such time as the SCOTUS rules in PRESIDENT Trump's favor..
After all, it was the Biden/Harris administration that set the precedent that court rulings are simply recommendations that can be ignored..
Ya'all seem to want to forget about that, eh?? :D
Just one more, amongst a PLETHORA of, examples of how woke progressive Democrats can't see past their own immediate desires..
Woke progressive Democrats NEVER look at the long term consequences of their actions...
And that is, as it usually does, going to come back around and bite them on the ass...
So, please... Don't be all hysterically shocked and indignant when PRESIDENT Trump starts ignoring the lower courts...
Ya'all only have your woke progressive Democrats to blame for it..
And NOW let's check in with ANOTHER woke progressive Democrat Water Carrier, the NY SLIMES..
Venting at Democrats and Fearing Trump, Liberal Donors Pull Back Cash
Demoralized donors are frustrated with Democrats’ failings and worried about retribution from the president. Their frugality has left liberal groups struggling to fight the new administration.
The demoralization and fear gripping blue America in the early weeks of President Trump’s administration have left liberal groups and their allies struggling for cash, hurting their ability to effectively combat the right-wing transformation of the federal government.
The small-dollar online spigot that powered opposition to the first Trump administration has slowed to a trickle as shaken liberal voters withhold their donations.
Charitable foundations that have long supported causes like voting rights, L.G.B.T.Q. equality and immigrants’ rights are pulling back, devoting time to prepare for expected investigations from the Republican-led Congress.
And some of the country’s biggest liberal donors have paused giving, frustrated with what they see as Democrats’ lack of vision and worried about retaliation from a vengeful president. Some Democrats say a few of their reliable donors are now openly supporting Mr. Trump, or at least looking to curry favor with him.
You and your woke progressive Democrats simply CANNOT catch a break, eh?? :D
You people REALLY need to see and comprehend the writing on the wall...
This is PRESIDENT Trump's and Patriotic American's America...
Get on board or go home, sit down and shut up...
"So say we all..."
WOW...
Only ELEVEN comments from the Weigantian Peanut Gallery..
On a FRIDAY FTP no less!!!
I remember fondly when, back in 2010 before all the trolls showed up, we would have FTP comment threads of 350 comments!!! And even HIGHER!!!
Ahhh those were the days.... :D
Italyrusty on [28]
Yes, I agree. Adams is a disgrace to his party, and we know Chris prefers to congratulate and berate individual Democrats on Friday evenings.
But that the Democrats in Congress could not block EVEN ONE of that array of jokers and liars from taking Cabinet-level positions is much more Disappointing than Adams's continuing descent into the muck.
I would also like to congratulate the federal prosecutors who resigned en masse from the NY Justice Dept office rather than go along with the president's order to abandon the prosecution of Adams. The payback in the corrupt bargain is the mayor's cooperation with the Feds in persecuting the city's large population of immigrants.
The ex-prosecutors don't identify as Democrats, as far as I know, but they still deserve as much praise as we can give them.
@JMCT
I can't believe I am actually CONVERSING with a guy who is EXCITED and "can't wait til the next pandemic" and HOPING for "mass deaths".. :eyeroll:
But that seems to be the prevailing attitude of ya'all woke progressive Democrats, so...
Yes, I agree. Adams is a disgrace to his party,
It's funny how you woke progressive Democrats are always giddy and in LOVE with one of yer own..
Elon Musk.. PRESIDENT Trump... And now Eric Adams..
Ya'all are in LOVE with these people... Right up to the point that they realize that they were wrong and are now taking steps to HELP America and Americans..
ALL OF THE SUDDEN, they are a "disgrace"... :eyeroll:
Hypocrisy. It's not a bug in Democrat programming. It's a feature..
The ex-prosecutors don't identify as Democrats, as far as I know, but they still deserve as much praise as we can give them.
Why?? Because the quit and ran away???
Yea.. I guess THAT would be praise-worthy to a bunch of woke progressive Democrats...
:eyeroll:
The MORE praise-worthy action would be stay and fight for what they believe in..
I guess they don't really have any strength of conviction...
SO yea... Cowardly run away...
That's the woke progressive Democrat way...
:eyeroll:
Michale,
In other words, if woke progressive Democrats hadn't committed gross fraud to make it look like Biden had won the election, then PRESIDENT Trump would have still be POTUS and none of that would have happened..
No, not factually accurate but rather a wholly misguided interpretation of what I wrote. Just to be clear, you know.
OK.. I'll shorten my answer.
Putin would never have invaded Ukraine if PRESIDENT Trump had won the 2020 election and all of the discussion would be moot.
We'll never know what would have happened if Trump had won the 2020 election.
Just like we will never know what might have happened differently if Biden hadn't been so unnecessarily vocal about taking the idea of Ukrainian membership in NATO off of the proverbial negotiating table.
You don't have a magic crystal ball, in other words. And, neither does anyone else here in Weigantia.
Of course, Biden remains completely wedded to the silly notion that it is in Ukraine's best interests to apply for NATO membership, so there's that. :(
And, after the last couple of years, maybe NATO membership is now in Ukraine's best interests. Doesn't mean it will ever happen, though.
You don't have a magic crystal ball, in other words. And, neither does anyone else here in Weigantia.
"If I drop a hammer on a high gravity planet, I don't need to see it has fallen to know that it has, indeed, fallen."
-Commander Spock, COURT MARTIAL
There are simply NO FACTS to support the claim that Russia would have attacked Ukraine under PRESIDENT Trump and a PLETHORA of facts that show Russia would NOT have attacked Ukraine under PRESIDENT Trump..
However, it's a moot point and not even worth arguing about.. :D
Of course, Biden remains completely wedded to the silly notion that it is in Ukraine's best interests to apply for NATO membership, so there's that. :(
Biden doesn't have enough knowledge or relevant knowledge to make that determination..
Nor do I..
I WILL maintain however, that it should be UKRAINE'S CHOICE as to whether or not to join NATO..
Having said that, considering the corruption and the fascism and the racism exhibited by the Ukraine government, I would hope that NATO thinks long and hard about whether Ukraine is WORTHY of joining NATO..
I WILL maintain however, that it should be UKRAINE'S CHOICE as to whether or not to join NATO. I would hope that NATO thinks long and hard about whether Ukraine [should join NATO]
Of course! And, all of that SHOULD go without saying.
Of course! And, all of that SHOULD go without saying.
It SHOULD...
Yet... Here we are.. :D heh
"Mr Simpson!!! You can't put a PRICE on yer family's safety!!"
"I wouldn't have thought so either.. Yet, here we are."
-THE SIMPSONS
:D
JL,
, given your apparent hero worship of both men,
You mean like ya'all went head over heels hero worship for Token DEI Hire Headboard Harris when she took over the Dem nomination for President without a SINGLE vote from the American people??
You mean like that??
At least my admiration for PRESIDENT Trump and Elon Musk is based on real and tangible ACTIONS...
Yer hero worship of Headboard Harris was based on NOTHING but the fact that she was better than senile dementia-riddled Joe Biden..
Hell, ya'all would have been JUST AS THRILLED if a rutabaga had replaced Biden.. :eyeroll:
You mean like ya'all went head over heels hero worship for [unnecessary racist/sexist slurs] Harris
i have never had any sort of hero-worship for the former VP. i thought she would have made a decent president, and she did a pretty good job campaigning in an extremely uphill battle, but that's about it. the campaign was basically over when some moron took a shot at donald and he both survived it and siezed the moment. harris did not do a bad job, but she was not perfect, and that's all it took to lose.
You haven't LISTED any similarities...
I did list similarities, but since it's well-established that reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, I'll repeat:
exactly like professor gill, Donald studied and copied the racially charged, transactional, truth-optional propaganda style of the third reich, but without copying any of its evil goals or "solutions." he instead used those tools in an attempt to create "government efficiency," after which his new extra-constitutional department is named.
also like gill, he found a right-hand man (mELakON) who presented as trying to help, but whom, as soon as he got his hands on governmental power, immediately began to usurp jobs that he is completely not entitled to. I could go on and point out more similarities, but i'm not certain even THAT much will manage to get through the mountains of moosepoop that are currently impeding your cognitive ability.
Patterns of Force never gets into how gill went from trusting mELakON to getting drugged and replaced by him. however, I suspect we may soon find out how it happens. after all, life is consistently stranger than the art it imitates.
JL
i have never had any sort of hero-worship for the former VP. i thought she would have made a decent president, and she did a pretty good job campaigning in an extremely uphill battle, but that's about it.
You woke progressives were gaa-gaa over Headboard Harris.. Ya'all went ape-shit crazy with your "JOY" crap... Even 2025 CW went on and on and on about "JOY" and the "Brat Summer"..
Don't tell me ya'all weren't ALL about hero-worship with Headboard Harris..
The FACTS and OBJECTIVE REALITY proves something completely and utterly different..
harris did not do a bad job,
Harris did an ABYSMAL job..
Courting Darth Vader's daughter...
Refusing to do any REAL interviews...
Having NOTHING substantial to say...
DAILY word salads that said absolutely NOTHING...
Cackling at the most inappropriate times...
The list of Headboard Harris' frak ups is endless..
exactly like professor gill, Donald studied and copied the racially charged, transactional, truth-optional propaganda style of the third reich, but without copying any of its evil goals or "solutions." he instead used those tools in an attempt to create "government efficiency," after which his new extra-constitutional department is named.
Oh.. I see why I didn't remember this part..
I thought you were kidding... :eyeroll:
NONE of that is factually accurate..
also like gill, he found a right-hand man (mELakON) who presented as trying to help, but whom, as soon as he got his hands on governmental power, immediately began to usurp jobs that he is completely not entitled to. I could go on and point out more similarities, but i'm not certain even THAT much will manage to get through the mountains of moosepoop that are currently impeding your cognitive ability.
My gods!! Did you even WATCH POF???
NONE of that happened in the episode.. :eyeroll:
You are simply making shit up.. :eyeroll:
And I also noticed how you didn't address the FACT that the Biden/Odumbo relationship fits the POF scenario to a 'T'..
I accept your concession that Biden = John Gill and Odumbo = Melakon...
as soon as he got his hands on governmental power, immediately began to usurp jobs that he is completely not entitled to.
This most specifically has NOTHING to do with the current situation with PRESIDENT Trump and DOGE...
It's not YOUR place to state what jobs DOGE is or is not entitled to..
THAT decision is solely and completely at PRESIDENT Trump's discretion..
The Trek episode PATTERNS OF FORCE has absolutely ZERO to do with the real life DOGE.
And anyone who CLAIMS any similarities is simply displaying their hysterical Trump/America hate and their hysterical PTDS..
"Our department of mental health just sent an agency wide memo banning pronouns in email signatures. Five employees resigned on the spot.--SAYNORA!"
-Oklahoma Governor Kevin Stitt
Well, that's ONE WAY to clear out the America hating riff raff!!! :D Force them to self-purge... :D
Great job Governor Stitt!!!! :D
"We still haven't discovered just how much the media was paid and controlled by the government. But we will."
-DOGE
I just KNEW that when PRESIDENT Trump was elected, it was going to be a FUN time!! :D
Remember, I PREDICTED this would happen..
When Musk took over at Twitter (Now X) he cleaned house and found a WHOLE LOTTA bad shit that Twitter and the Government were doing..
I said that once PRESIDENT Trump took over we're going to find a whole 'nother level of bad shit the government was doing..
And here we are... :D
Let's compare my prediction accuracy to ya'all's... :D
I mean, ya'all actually THOUGHT that Headboard Harris would WIN the election!!????
That alone right there says a **LOT** about ya'all and ya'all's credibility... :D
"Hay Democrats..
If ya'all hadn't illegally spied on PRESIDENT Trump, undermined PRESIDENT Trump's presidency, stole the 2020 election, arrested PRESIDENT Trump, charged PRESIDENT Trump, indicted PRESIDENT Trump, gagged PRESIDENT Trump, censored PRESIDENT Trump, raided PRESIDENT Trump's private residence, jailed PRESIDENT Trump's supporters, attempted to remove PRESIDENT Trump from state ballots, convicted PRESIDENT Trump and tried to kill PRESIDENT Trump.... none of this would be happening right now..
But you Democrats just had to fuck around, didn't ya'all...
And now ya'all are finding out."
-The American People
The obvious moral here is simple..
DON'T fuck around and ya won't find out...
:eyeroll:
Interesting to note..
Ya'all have been whining hysterically about DOGE for a while now...
But not ONE SINGLE TIME have ya'all accused DOGE of lying...
Of making shit up...
THAT is very VERY interesting, no?? :D
Ya'all need to come to grips with the facts and the objective reality of the here and now..
The old way of doing things.. The DEMOCRAT way of doing things..
It's gone... Like DEI and WOKE, ya'all's way of doing things is dead and buried...
There's a new sheriff in town..
And he ain't gonna put up with your Democrat shit no longer...
Yer way is over.. END TRANS....
Get used to the new way of doing things..
The AMERICAN way...
Kewl video!!! :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X992eEdEe44
Ya'all wanna know how AWESOME a job PRESIDENT Trump is doing on the border???
San Diego migrant shelter closes after no new arrivals since Trump took office; over 100 employees laid off
The Jewish Family Service of San Diego says it has received zero new migrants since President Donald Trump shut down the CBP One phone app after he was inaugurated
A San Diego migrant shelter is closing its doors and laying off more than 100 employees because of funding and policy changes under the Trump administration.
The Jewish Family Service of San Diego, which has operated a regional migrant shelter for over six years, announced it will close its facility and lay off 115 employees due to "changes in federal funding and policy."
"Jewish Family Service of San Diego (JFS) is working to meet the evolving needs of the community in response to recent and anticipated federal policy changes," the organization previously said.
My hometown of San Diego is learning the harsh reality of PRESIDENT Trump's America..
No more free rides for illegal immigrant criminals...
In his recent successful presidential campaign and initial month in office, PRESIDENT Trump has effectively employed a rhetorical strategy that can be aptly described as "provocative common sense." This approach not only captures attention but also challenges the prevailing narratives pushed by progressive factions. A striking example of this strategy emerged during the campaign when PRESIDENT Trump controversially claimed that Haitian migrants in Springfield, Ohio, were resorting to eating pets. This incident unfolded in three distinct phases, each revealing the intricacies of PRESIDENT Trump's communication style.
Initially, the reaction from progressive circles was swift and intense. Woke progressive Democrats labeled PRESIDENT Trump a racist for even suggesting such a scenario, demonstrating how quickly emotions can overshadow rational discourse. However, upon visiting Springfield, it became evident that the truth of the claim was ambiguous. Yet, the factual accuracy was not the crux of PRESIDENT Trump's strategy; rather, it was about igniting a conversation. The second phase of PRESIDENT Trump's plan involved media coverage that began to shed light on the actual circumstances in Springfield, prompting a deeper examination of the situation.
The final phase saw the public grappling with the wisdom of relocating 20,000 Haitian migrants to a town with a mere population of 50,000. This decision appeared misguided, as local residents expressed that they had neither requested nor been consulted about this significant influx. As the uproar subsided, PRESIDENT Trump emerged as a voice of reason, while woke progressive Democrats found themselves defending an untenable position. This was, in fact, part of PRESIDENT Trump's overarching strategy.
PRESIDENT Trump's rhetorical prowess extends beyond this single incident. For instance, his remarks about Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau sparked vital discussions regarding the imbalances in trade relations between the two nations. By framing these issues in a provocative manner, PRESIDENT Trump consistently draws criticism from woke progressive Democrats, compelling them to confront uncomfortable truths and take positions that alienate them from the average American.
This tactic mirrors the historical methods of figures like Thomas Paine, who utilized incendiary rhetoric to galvanize revolutionary sentiments. Both Paine and PRESIDENT Trump advocate for a clear and assertive application of common sense, particularly in support of those who feel marginalized. By forcing woke progressive Democrats to adopt stances that contradict the views of everyday Americans, PRESIDENT Trump effectively highlights the disconnect between political elites and the populace.
In essence, PRESIDENTTrump's ability to provoke and challenge the status quo is his superpower. By leveraging provocative common sense, he not only engages the public but also reshapes the political landscape, compelling woke progressive Democrats to defend positions that are increasingly out of touch with the American people. This strategy not only resonates with his base but also invites broader discussions about the direction of the nation, making it a powerful tool in his political arsenal.
You people simply CANNOT win..
As long as ya'all oppose PRESIDENT Trump ya'all will be forever on the losing side of the equation..
"So say we all...."
In the spring of 1986, New York City Mayor Ed Koch faced embarrassment over the Parks Department's mismanagement of Wollman Rink, which had wasted millions in taxpayer dollars. Closed for repairs since 1980, the rink's renovation turned disastrous when a contractor failed to properly install a new Freon-based refrigeration system. After years of delays and flooding, the rink remained unusable.
Koch had to restart the project, which would cost an additional $3 million and take two more years. Fortunately, a local developer offered to complete the project efficiently. The developer's success—finishing the rink six months ahead of schedule and $750,000 under budget—highlighted the city's incompetence.
Despite the positive outcome, the episode underscored the challenges of progressive bureaucracy, leading many to question the effectiveness of government intervention.
The developer's name??
Donald J Trump
As I keep pointing out.. You woke progressive Democrats LOVED Donald Trump..
Hypocrisy. It's not a bug in Democrat programming. It's a feature.
JL,
harris did not do a bad job,
Headboard Harris burned thru TWO POINT FIVE ***BILLION*** DOLLARS in just 90 days..
And SPECTACULARLY... EPICALLY... LOST the election..
She even LOST THE POPULAR VOTE by a considerably great margin...
If THAT is not doing a "bad job" then I would hate to see what you consider a "bad job" to be...
2.5 BILLION dollars... 90 frakin' days...
And she EPICALLY lost...
That's the very DEFINITION of "bad job"... :eyeroll:
And, wasn't she sending out fundraising emails AFTER her election loss?
She was indeed...
So, apparently, 2.5 BILLION dollars wasn't enough for her...
She STILL had debt after all of that money..
"Democrats lost the election... Gee, I wonder why!!??"
:eyeroll:
It's crazy how Democrats refuse to acknowledge how bad Harris was as a candidate and how abysmally she managed her campaign..
Just another reason why Democrats will be out in the wilderness for a long long time..
They keep lying to themselves on EXACTLY what their real problems are...
Blowing thru over 2.5 BILLION dollars in 90 days and losing to epically....
That's a HUGE hint and a half for their asses... :eyeroll:
So, I have seen videos of Air Force One flying over the Daytona Raceway and PRESIDENT Trump in The Beast as the Pace Car for the Daytona 500...
What a sight that must have been!!
I have never been much of a NASCAR racing fan, but I would have LOVED to have been there and seen that.. :D
How completely and utterly retarded are woke progressive Democrat morons!!???
Utterly bizarre assertion from CBS News' Margaret Brennan. She claims the Nazi Holocaust occurred because "free speech was weaponized" in Germany. Recasting the Holocaust as a consequence of excessive free speech is just totally whacked out.....
Completely and utterly craptastic with a heaping helping of ignorant...
Get that??
According to woke progressive Democrats, Nazi Germany's "Free Speech" Policies caused the Holocaust...
THAT is a new one... :eyeroll:
These are ya'all's woke progressive Democrats who are spewing this complete and utter bullshit..
THIS is what you people are all about???
SERIOUSLY!!!???
Let's see what others are saying about that..
Wow. Margaret Brennan ACTUALLY claims that the Holocaust happened because "free speech was weaponized" in Nazi Germany.
She’s incredibly dumb, a blatant Democrat propagandist or both. Doesn’t really matter which it is, @CBSNews should fire her over this.
-Robby Starbuck
"Can we just talk about how a prominent American news anchor actually believes Nazi Germany had free speech and that supposed free speech is to blame for the Holocaust? That's both deeply arrogant and deeply ignorant."
-Radio Host Erick Erickson
"Anyone claiming ‘free speech was weaponized to conduct a genocide’ in Nazi Germany is either profoundly ignorant or deliberately lying. The Nazis didn’t ‘weaponize’ free speech, they abolished it. No one pushing nonsense like this should be allowed anywhere near a newsroom."
-Author Hans Mahncke
"Welp. I guess that means Trump needs to shut down CBS to prevent another Holocaust. Not the path I would’ve chosen, but if Margaret Brennan says that allowing CBS to just say whatever it wants will lead to another Holocaust, who am I to argue? Better to be safe and shut down CBS than be sorry you let CBS bring Hitler back."
-Sean Davis
"This bonkers. Like pull her off the air bonkers."
-Bonchie
How many more FACTS do ya'all need till you understand that you and your fellow woke progressive Democrats are completely and utterly OFF the reservation... As in a COMPLETELY different GALAXY!!!
:eyeroll:
CBS NEWS
Complete BullShit News...
:eyeroll:
Down here in Florida, we do things RIGHT!!! :D
Florida sheriff says ICE partnership only the beginning in illegal migrant crackdown
St. Johns County, Florida, Sheriff Robert Hardwick shared how his department is partnering with federal officials to apprehend criminal migrants
A Florida sheriff said leveraging relationships with federal immigration enforcement officials is the "tip of the spear" to fight criminal migrants.
St. Johns County Sheriff Robert Hardwick told Fox News Digital his department has a duty to partner with federal officials.
St. Johns County is part of the 287(g) program that allows U.S. Immigration and Customs Protection (ICE) to delegate to state and local law enforcement officers certain immigration functions, including identifying and detaining suspected illegal immigrants.
"Deputy sheriffs have been working on Interstate 95 with our Customs and Border Patrol, with ICE and with ERO," he said. "We've been working with all of our federal partners to go ahead and enforce not just immigration, but also enforce human trafficking, sex trafficking, guns, narcotics and every illegal activity that's going on out there."
I'de LOVE to work for THIS sheriff!!!!
My sheriff is great, but THIS sheriff is fraking AWESOME!!!
Woke progressive Democrats are trying to make things HARDER for ICE and IMMIGRATION..
My state is putting in an EXPRESS LANE!!
:D
And still ANOTHER definition of irony..
The woke progressive folks who renamed everything from Military Bases to pancake syrup to butter are hysterically whining about changing the name of Gulf Of Mexico to Gulf Of America...
Especially when one considers that Gulf Of America is a LOT more inclusive than Gulf Of Mexico...
Sum up the last 6 months with ONE picture...
http://mfccfl.us/winning.jpg
"It's funny cuz it's true"
-Homer Simpson
:D
So, I have seen videos of Air Force One flying over the Daytona Raceway and PRESIDENT Trump in The Beast as the Pace Car for the Daytona 500...
What a sight that must have been!!
I have never been much of a NASCAR racing fan, but I would have LOVED to have been there and seen that.. :D
http://mfccfl.us/Beast.jpg
Tell me that is not the most AWE-INSPIRING the most PATRIOTIC picture you have EVER seen!!! :D
I am SOOOOO terribly sorry...
I haven't posted ANY vacay pics recently..
I know how much ya'all love those pics.. So you have my sincerest apologies..
http://mfccfl.us/jumpoff1.jpg
Here is one of myself and my lovely wife of 44 years with out puppies... :D
I have to admit..
It is really REALLY nice not having to deal with a bunch of Trump/America hating comments..
Nothing but facts and objective reality as far as the eye can see...
Beginning to feel like home.. :D
Well, isn't THIS very interesting!! :D
Judge Tanya Chutkan, the heroine of woke progressive Democrats has stated that she doesn't think that woke progressive Democrats have a case to stop PRESIDENT Trump and DOGE from doing their jobs...
Federal judge skeptical of effort to block Musk's DOGE from accessing data, firing employees
A federal judge expressed skepticism of efforts seeking to bar President Donald Trump's administration from accessing federal data and firing federal workers when hearing remarks from the bench on Monday.
Judge Tanya Chutkan has yet to issue a ruling in the case, which relates to billionaire Elon Musk and the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) and their efforts to curb government spending. Chutkan says she will rule on the case within 24 hours.
At issue in the case are DOGE's actions within seven federal agencies, including the Office of Personnel Management, the Department of Education, Department of Labor, The Department of Health and Human Services, Department of Energy, Department of Transportation and the Department of Commerce.
Attorneys general from 14 states argue Musk and Trump's administration have engaged in illegal executive overreach, but Chutkan says she wasn't convinced so far.
So, now the heroine of the work progressive Democrats looks like she'll be siding WITH PRESIDENT Trump and DOGE...
I wonder how long it will be until the likes of JMCT and Rusty start labeling HER a "disgrace"... :eyeroll:
Hypocrisy. It's not a bug in Democrat programming. It's a feature...
When are ya'all woke progressive Democrats going to learn??
Ya'all are as wrong as wrong can be..
Ya'all's time is past...
It's PRESIDENT Trump's time.. It's MICHALE's time... :D
"So say we all..."
:D
Here is another way that Elon Musk is NOTHING like Melakon..
In PATTERNS OF FORCE, Melakon was ACTUALLY running things.. ACTUALLY making decisions on what to do..
Elon Musk is **NOT** making **ANY** decisions whatsoever...
Musk is simply INVESTIGATING and noting and documenting the abuse and the fraud and then MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS to PRESIDENT Trump...
Then PRESIDENT Trump makes the decision on what course of action to take...
In so many MANY different ways, the POF analogy is fundamentally FLAWED and completely and unequivocally FALSE...
Anyone making such a comparison is simply showing their complete and utter ignorance of Star Trek...
And we'll stop here with an even 80 with another vacay video.. :D
http://mfccfl.us/skiing1.mp4
Haven't been skiing in FIFTY YEARS!!! But I still remember.. :D
Using Star Trek *ACCURATELY* to show how irrational and illogical woke progressive Democrats are...
http://mfccfl.us/M5.jpg
THAT is an accurate analogy...
Looks like Border Boss Homan and PRESIDENT Trump deserve to take a victory lap... :D
Homan takes victory lap after illegal immigrant crossings plummet during Trump admin: 'He is delivering'
Homan said it's the lowest he's seen since President Reagan was in office
President Trump's border czar Tom Homan is touting the administration's dramatic drop in illegal immigrant encounters at the southern border compared to the Biden administration.
Homan took to X to say that Border Patrol "has encountered a total of 229 aliens across the entire southwest border."
"That is down from a high of over 11,000 a day under Biden," he said. "I started as a Border Patrol Agent in 1984, and I don’t remember the numbers ever being that low."
"President Trump promised a secure border and he is delivering," he said.
And Biden and Harris and woke progressive Democrats say that a secure border is impossible!!!
Once again, PRESIDENT Trump delivers where woke progressive Democrats FAIL!!! :D
Life is good.. :D
Yunno...
Perhaps I am being unfair to ya'all...
If *I* was part of a group that had been screwing over Americans for the last 4 years and a group like DOGE started exposing the criminal and fraudulent actions of the group..
I would be hysterical and hateful too...
So ya'all's reaction is understandable, given the facts...
Liz
47
Of course, Biden remains completely wedded to the silly notion that it is in Ukraine's best interests to apply for NATO membership, so there's that. :(
WHY do you suppose that every current NATO country got in as quick as they could?
WHAT have you got against Ukraine and the Ukrainian diaspora, of which there are tons of in Canada?
Why do YOU get to live free in Canada but UKRAINIANS don’t get to? Are you prejudiced against Ukrainians?
You better hope Trump doesn’t invade fucking Ontario because then we’ll learn if you’re still down with the Russia might makes right thing! *smh*
Why do YOU get to live free in Canada but UKRAINIANS don’t get to? Are you prejudiced against Ukrainians?
Ukrainian's choose the corrupt and fascist government..
Now they have to live with the consequences of their choices...
Are you expecting the US to be the world's police force!??
What kind of Democrat are you!!???
Save your receipts, Smith and Covington. We’ll be in touch soon. #NoOneIsAboveTheLaw
“Special counsel Jack Smith discloses ‘gift’ of $140,000 in free legal services” - POLITICO
-US Attorney Ed Martin
Looks like woke progressive Democrat Jack Smith is as corrupt as ya'all accuse PRESIDENT Trump of being!!
:eyeroll:
Presidents have broad authority under Article II of the Constitution to govern and control agencies in departments in the executive branch. How much money is spent hiring, firing, auditing for fraud, waste and abuse. So Trump is exercising a core responsibility, serving the public's interest. That's his solemn duty. The legal question becomes, can he delegate that power to Musk and DOGE? Democrats who have sued say, you can't do that. He wasn't Senate-confirmed under the Appointments clause. That's nonsense. There's a large body of law that says the president absolutely can, on his own without the Senate, confer administrative powers to others like DOGE. So, these early setbacks in various lower courts. That was expected. Trump knew that, you know, liberals would go running and crying to favorable judges. Oh gee whiz, he's stopping our fraud and waste. We want that to continue. Ultimately, I think the Supreme Court will weigh in, and that's where Trump will prevail. The law is on his side.
The law's on President Trump's side. Plus, when you're serving the public interest and the public is in favor of it. That's something that I think the Supreme Court recognizes. Steve mentioned it, CBS poll found 70% agree that the president is doing what he promised. A majority approve of it as a key part of his mandate. Democrats here are picking the wrong battle. What person in their right mind wants to continue billions of taxpayer dollars squandered on waste and fraud, but they are so reflexively against anything that Trump does. Their lawsuits make them look like they favor financial abuse. What DOGE and Musk must have uncovered so far is really shocking Americans. 20% of government spending is wasted. Billions in misplaced funds. Americans, I think, are fed up with this and Trump is moving in their direction as the Supreme Court, I think, is not oblivious to that.
Legal Analyst Gregg Jarrett
You people are completely whacked in the head if ya'all HONESTLY believe that PRESIDENT Trump is not going to prevail in these legal challenges..
Even the PRO woke progressive Democrat judge is skeptical that woke progressive Democrats even have a case!!
I mean, com'on people..
For once in yer lives, look at the objective reality here..
Even if by some stroke of sheer lunacy, the woke progressive Democrats are able to get the lower courts to go along with their sheer insane position....
The SCOTUS will DEFINITELY side with PRESIDENT Trump on this issue..
Ya'all just HAVE to realize the complete and utter futility of what yer woke progressive Democrats are attempting..
Are ya'all so far gone that you have lost ALL semblance of reality!??
:eyeroll:
When are we going to see a commentary that reflects the objectively reality...
A "reality based" commentary that makes clear that woke progressive Democrats are losing EVERY battle and that the war is lost...
Yer movement is dead..
It's far past time to put it out of it's... and our... misery..
I'm just sayin'...
Well, here's a milestone for ya'all..
PRESIDENT Trump is the first President in over 100 years to NOT have a dog in the White House.
To compensate for that, PRESIDENT Trump has made the Democrat Party his bitch...
:D
Caddy,
You are still clueless as to what I am saying Re. Ukraine and whether it was ever wise (or wise now) for this country to be in NATO.
You have completely and constantly misunderstood and misinterpreted what my thinking is on this subject and I am done trying to explain it to you.
Elizabeth
All of your naive appeasement surrender monkey victim blaming Putin loving opinions are public record.
I’ve put a ton of effort into educating you but you have yet to address my points nor even acknowledge watching or reading any of the links I curated for you.
Ukrainians don’t get freedom because Russia said no? Trump is about to invade Canada and that will be your karma is a bitch moment.
Make sure you get out there singing All I am saying…is give peace a chance! when the M1 Abrams tanks roll into Kitchener.
Guys [84], [89]-[91]
It sounds like you need to agree to disagree. But although I don't understand Elizabeth's position exactly - not having followed it very closely - I think she's being a little more civil.
The U.S. is not going to 'invade Canada' in the sense that Russia invaded Ukraine, at all, at all.
No "tanks rolling into Kitchener" nonsense needs to be invoked, to suggest in a discussion that this Republican administration's odd threats to annex Canada do have some geopolitical similarity to the Russia-Ukraine conflict.
The big difference is, the USA is *not* Russia and this is *not* 1812. The odd threats, I think, are diversionary BS that the president is throwing into the atmosphere to distract from what he's really doing: dismantling the US government to benefit a tiny but wealthy oligarchy.
Not to mention the eerie premonitions of Munich that are emanating from the upcoming US-Russian meeting to partition Ukraine and reward Russia for its military aggressions of the past ten years.
It was appeasement then and it's appeasement now - although no one in Britain even thought, much less suggested, that Chamberlain was in Hitler's pocket.
Caddy,
All of your naive appeasement surrender monkey victim blaming Putin loving opinions are public record.
Not sure where you are getting this nonsense from but it ain't from the public record.
JMCT,
Do you have ANY facts to support your claims??
NO, you do not..
NOT ONE SINGLE FACT...
So, WHY do you continue to spew such nonsense??
Especially since yer the guy who "can't wait for the next pandemic" and who is EXCITED about "mass deaths"...
So, this begs the question..
WHY should ANYONE listen to what you say???
As far as Caddy goes...
You can ignore him.. He's high as a kite right now and hasn't a CLUE what he's talking about...
:eyeroll:
Most Impressive Republican(s) of the Week
Danielle Sassoon who honored her oath of office and (at the present time) the six others who followed her lead, proving beyond doubt that not all Righties are prattling uneducated Trump cock holsters.
nypoet22
1
maybe the Netherlands could buy back New York. New New Amsterdam, anyone?
That could work but (you probably already know this), the last time the Dutch named the area, they formally named it "New Orange."
You can't make this stuff up. :)
John M from Ct.
42
I would also like to congratulate the federal prosecutors who resigned en masse from the NY Justice Dept office rather than go along with the president's order to abandon the prosecution of Adams. The payback in the corrupt bargain is the mayor's cooperation with the Feds in persecuting the city's large population of immigrants.
The ex-prosecutors don't identify as Democrats, as far as I know, but they still deserve as much praise as we can give them.
Exactly. :)
Elizabeth Miller
89
You are still clueless as to what I am saying Re. Ukraine and whether it was ever wise (or wise now) for this country to be in NATO.
How many times must it be reiterated that nothing you've ever posted is the least bit complicated? But for the fact you add a useless "u" into certain words, you "speak" simple English.
You have completely and constantly misunderstood and misinterpreted what my thinking is on this subject and I am done trying to explain it to you.
There's nothing to misinterpret or misunderstand. Your posts are public record and shall continue to reek with the stench of appeasement and Russian talking points. :)
MtnCaddy
90
All of your naive appeasement surrender monkey victim blaming Putin loving opinions are public record.
Hey! That's basically what I "said."
Ukrainians don’t get freedom because Russia said no? Trump is about to invade Canada and that will be your karma is a bitch moment.
Remember that time asking her if the United States were amassed on the Canadian border whether Canada should just preemptively surrender because they couldn't possibly win?
It's public record. :)
Kick,
Stop putting words in my mouth!
Or, take your own advice, in other words. Now THAT is in the public record. Ahem.
Kcik and Caddy,
All of your naive appeasement surrender monkey victim blaming Putin loving opinions are public record.
Prove it!
Nowhere in this blog or anywhere else have I entered any such notions into the record, for the record.
Elizabeth Miller
101
Stop putting words in my mouth!
I didn't put a single word in your mouth. Try reading my posts slower; perhaps that will help you with your confusion. :)
Elizabeth Miller
102
Or, take your own advice, in other words. Now THAT is in the public record. Ahem.
Like I said, I didn't put a single word in your mouth. You have obviously completely misunderstood and misinterpreted my posts. Try reading them slowly.
Do you realize, Kick, how badly these comments reflect back on you?
Kick,
Remember that time asking her if the United States were amassed on the Canadian border whether Canada should just preemptively surrender because they couldn't possibly win?
If you look that up, you will find that the analogy used was far more comprehensive. But, it was still just as non-serious as that presented here.
Elizabeth Miller
106
Do you realize, Kick, how badly these comments reflect back on you?
Said the commenter who accused me of something I did not do.
A commenter giving an opinion is not the equivalent of putting words in your mouth, and your words definitely are public record.
They are indeed! Why don't you throw some of that public record back at me? Quote me, in other words. You used to be quite good at that.
But, you can't produce something in the public record that I have never said. How does that old saying go ... oh, right ... Put up or shut up!
Liz
109
THE rest of us have been following you on this matter for (checks watch) three years ago and I’m unwilling to plow through all that to refresh your memory. So let’s discuss something I don’t have to hunt for,
Liz
47
Of course, Biden remains completely wedded to the silly notion that it is in Ukraine's best interests to apply for NATO membership, so there's that. :(
So tell us why you believe this. C’mon, don’t pull a Cho’mo and bail on the subject at the first hint of eminent embarrassment. I’ll work with you but please explain why you believe this. Oh, and they ARE Russian talking points.
Why do you insist on being so disrespectful, Caddy?
That is NOT a great way to entice me into engagement here with you.
So humor me. Kindly answer the above to clarify and thus refresh my memory. Engage right here, right now. Please.
Here’s one more:
5- how do view Putin expanding his empire as any different than centuries of previous Czars expanded their empires?
1- What exactly is “silly” about it? Funny how ALL the former Warsaw Pact countries who rushed to join NATO didn’t and still don’t find NATO membership to be silly.
2- what would YOU have done that would have prevented Putin’s escalation of his 2014 invasion of Ukraine.
3- in 2007 Putin lamented the fall of the Soviet empire in 1991 and made it clear he wanted to correct this. So he invaded Georgia, Kazakhstan, Chechnya twice and others. He told you what he wanted to do and then did so over and over. So what should Biden have done that would have stopped him in 2022?
4- how would taking NATO membership off the table have been anything other than, Ukraine? Sure, we don’t care so help yourself!
The previous name calling was not cool, and I’ll endeavor to knock it the fuck off. Please understand that it came purely out of frustration that you duck answering questions like these.
*
Foreign policy of pacifying Russia through negotiation in order to prevent them attacking Ukraine is the literal definition of appeasement.
Elizabeth Miller
109
Why don't you throw some of that public record back at me? Quote me, in other words.
See above.
You used to be quite good at that.
I never stopped being quite good at that.
But, you can't produce something in the public record that I have never said.
Being that you obviously called for appeasement multiple times, I can produce a plethora of you doing it.
How does that old saying go ... oh, right ... Put up or shut up!
How many of your multiple calls for appeasement would you like repeated?
Thanks, Kick. I’m an iPhone poster and it’s a real hassle to dig them up. Granted, it is a target rich environment…
Most mornings I bow in the direction of Texas and proclaim my gratitude thus,
Hosanna, Queen of Snark!
Hosanna in the Highest!
Aaand, I missed that this was merely sixteen days into the escalation. No wonder I was so steamed at that juncture.
Kick and Caddy,
You both appear to equate appeasement with diplomatic opportunity to avoid/end a stupid, long war.
Back in March of 2022, it was none other than the Israeli PM, Naftali Bennett - the Great Appeaser...NOT - who tried to mediate an early end to the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
At that time, Ukraine was in a relatively strong negotiating position, having successfully and spectacularly stopped the Russian advance on Kyiv and handed Putin a great strategic loss as his delusions of occupying the whole of Ukraine quickly evaporated.
While Naftali understood, as I do, that it would have been difficult for Ukraine to accept all that his mediation effort entailed, it was the only way to bring hostilities on the ground to a quick end and begin tough negotiations.
The Biden administration, however, chose to ignore Israeli mediation efforts and advised Zelensky to stay the course. And we all know the sad state of affairs that has resulted from that less than stellar advice - Ukraine now in a decidedly weaker negotiating position with Russia having made slow but sure incremental advances on the ground over the course of the last two and a half years of death and destruction inside Ukraine.
And, today, under the Trump administration, things just got worse for Zelensky. Time for him and European leaders to show more strength and leadership and no small amount of push-back against the power play Trump is making. I hope that Ukraine has learned an important lesson about how its self-interest doesn't always align with that of the US.
Kick,
How many of your multiple calls for appeasement would you like repeated?
As many as you think you can muster. Indeed, bring them on.
Just remember that your constant accusations of appeasement ring hollow to anyone who understands the concept and who recognizes the reality of what has unfolded in Ukraine as this stupid war has dragged on for three years.
MtnCaddy
118
Aaand, I missed that this was merely sixteen days into the escalation. No wonder I was so steamed at that juncture.
Is that not the literal definition of "appeasement"?
Rhetorical question.
Elizabeth Miller
120
As many as you think you can muster. Indeed, bring them on.
As I have stated before, you cannot throw a rock into the archives of 2022 without hitting one of your Kremlin talking points and/or statements calling for appeasement.
Just remember that your constant accusations of appeasement ring hollow to anyone who understands the concept...
Is that the problem here? It seems you simply do not understand the concept of appeasement.
... and who recognizes the reality of what has unfolded in Ukraine as this stupid war has dragged on for three years.
Patently false. "This stupid war" was escalated by the aggression of Vladimir Putin and Russia after having already taken place for years prior. However, the length of the war has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not you repeatedly called for appeasement: You did. It's public record.
Elizabeth Miller
119
You both appear to equate appeasement with diplomatic opportunity to avoid/end a stupid, long war.
Oh, you've got to be freaking kidding me! *laughs*
Back in March of 2022, it was none other than the Israeli PM, Naftali Bennett - the Great Appeaser...NOT - who tried to mediate an early end to the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
How does one negotiate an "early end" to an invasion that had already been taking place for an extended number of years? Putin threatened to escalate if his terms were not met. Hold up. We've been through this exercise multiple times.
If you seriously think MtnCaddy or I don't know the history here, you're worse off than I thought.
The Biden administration, however, chose to ignore Israeli mediation efforts and advised Zelensky to stay the course.
That's oversimplified bullshit. Obviously, we all know you blame Biden, and for all kinds of glaringly obvious reasons, it's ridiculous. Despite the obvious facts regarding the history of the area, you still seem to have faith in Vladimir Putin... wherein he merits NONE.
As far as Trump, he's simply repeating some of the same Kremlin talking points you've posted on this public forum and blaming Zelensky and/or Biden for the war... you know, the war he claims wouldn't have happened if he was POTUS but that had obviously been going on every single day while he was actually the President, and Trump doesn't sound altogether too far off from some of the same things you've posted yourself on this public forum.
Please look up the definition of appeasement. It's exactly what you advocated multiple times on this public forum.
Liz
119
While Chamberlain understood, as I do, that it would have been difficult for the Sudetenland to accept all that his mediation effort entailed, it was the only way to bring hostilities on the ground to a quick end and begin tough negotiations having just rewarded Hitler’s aggression.This became known in history as appeasement.
There, I fixed it for you. ;D
Now kindly engage with my five questions above. Before I think of any more tough ones for you.
Moreover
And we all know the sad state of affairs that has resulted from that less than stellar advice - Ukraine now in a decidedly weaker negotiating position with Russia having made slow but sure incremental advances on the ground over the course of the last two and a half years of death and destruction inside Ukraine.
Quite the opposite. It’s Russia that’s negotiating from a position of weakness. Let’s remember that Russia has traded all of the costs of war for these results:
Russia has spent enormous amounts of treasure and blood for a stalemate. The non-American West is united like never before and now features new members Finland and Sweden. Russia is the most sanctioned regime in human history, and they’re getting nothing but tighter. Inflation in Russia is officially 9.4% but a lot of staples have gotten considerably more expensive. The Russian prime rate is 21%. The Ruble has fallen to a penny. Westerners ran all those Siberian resource extraction operations because neither the Russians nor the Chinese know how. And their parts and expertise are gone and they’re not coming back. The Ukrainians have already taken out a seventh of Russia’s oil refineries and the “shadow fleet” has seen four sinkings to date. And how about that Black Sea Fleet? Russian crude will come off the market because they cannot store what they cannot export. When the wells and pipelines stop flowing they’ll freeze. Which means redrilling and rebuilding everything. That least happened in the 1990s and it took them thirty years to do this.
If you think the Polish will allow Putin to prevail you are wrong. Just the Poles alone would be enough to drive Russia completely out of Ukraine. Heck, this would be the perfect opportunity to annex Kaliningrad!
Heck, if the Baltics and Finland join up they can recover huge chunks of territory that the Russians seized from them. No way Russia could handle this — they’re giving their untrained conscripts Soviet-era equipment.
I think I’m getting an erection.
Kick,
Please look up the definition of appeasement. It's exactly what you advocated multiple times on this public forum.
False.
Are you sure that you want to be on the record here calling the former Israeli PM, Naftali Bennett, an appeaser?
Think before answering!
And learn how to discuss tough subjects respectfully.
Caddy,
Of course, NATO is not silly nor is NATO membership. What I have always found to be a foolish idea - up until the current situation vis-a-vis the US-Russia nexus - is Ukraine inside NATO, simply based on its historical relationship with the Soviet Union and Russia and the context of the cold war and its aftermath. In reality, no matter how this war ends, Ukraine is nowhere near being in a position where it will need to be in order to be accepted by NATO for full membership. By that time who knows if NATO will even still be relevant.
I had hoped that Team Biden would have handled the Ukraine-Russia situation by doubling down on diplomatic efforts to resolve that regional security challenge rather than ensuring that all out war would ensue without a substantial effort to avoid it. Would a serious diplomatic effort - one that didn't include taking a major element off the negotiating table - have made any difference to Putin's intentions? I don't know.
Taking NATO membership off the negotiating table made the rest of the diplomatic effort non-serious.
If Putin had thoughts of expanding his empire, then his unwise choice to invade Ukraine with the intention of occupying the whole country should put those delusions to rest.
Finally, I am having great difficulty posting comments because of some sort of issue with passwords and error messages about connections that are not secure...
test
Yeah, I’m having the very same issues…and it just started in the last couple of months.
130
Liz
47
Of course, Biden remains completely wedded to the silly notion that it is in Ukraine's best interests to apply for NATO membership, so there's that. :(
Of course, NATO is not silly nor is NATO membership. What I have always found to be a foolish idea - up until the current situation vis-a-vis the US-Russia nexus - is Ukraine inside NATO, simply based on its historical relationship with the Soviet Union and Russia and the context of the cold war and its aftermath.
So you’re saying that because Russia has occupied Ukraine for hundreds of years they should be allowed to re conquer Ukraine?
In reality, no matter how this war ends, Ukraine is nowhere near being in a position where it will need to be in order to be accepted by NATO for full membership. By that time who knows if NATO will even still be relevant.
If you assert that corruption dooms Ukraine’s prospective NATO membership then you don’t know that there are two chapters in the history of Ukrainian corruption:
The 90s right up to Maidan in 2014 had Soviet-style Russian-oriented corruption. The Ukrainian people rose up and chased Yanukovich back to Russia because they wanted to join the West. Since then it has made vast improvements — because the Ukrainian people were sick of corruption, hello. And NATO will become even more relevant should America withdraw from it.
Liz
130
… to resolve that regional security challenge rather than ensuring that all out war would ensue without a substantial effort to avoid it.
1- What exactly is “silly” about it? Funny how ALL the former Warsaw Pact countries who rushed to join NATO didn’t and still don’t find NATO membership to be silly.
2- what would YOU have done that would have prevented Putin’s escalation of his 2014 invasion of Ukraine.
3- in 2007 Putin lamented the fall of the Soviet empire in 1991 and made it clear he wanted to correct this. So he invaded Georgia, Kazakhstan, Chechnya twice and others. He told you what he wanted to do and then did so over and over. So what should Biden have done that would have stopped him in 2022?
5- how do view Putin expanding his empire as any different than centuries of previous Czars expanded their empires?
Elizabeth Miller
129
False.
Okay, so it's hereby established you actually have no idea whatsoever regarding the definition of "appeasement." We've definitely identified the problem.
Are you sure that you want to be on the record here calling the former Israeli PM, Naftali Bennett, an appeaser?
Now who is putting words in someone's mouth? My statement was that you had posted a plethora of comments wherein you recommended appeasement and they're obviously public record. I don't give a flying duck about the Israeli PM's thoughts since he obviously doesn't comment here on this blog.
Think before answering!
You should definitely have done some thinking before posting such an asinine question since I obviously never made any such statement... unless you're prepared to reveal that you're actually the former Israeli PM, Naftali Bennett. That statement was obviously about you.
And learn how to discuss tough subjects respectfully.
Oh, FFS. I have a better idea: Learn the definition of "appeasement" since you're on record doing it repetitively.
Elizabeth Miller
130
In reality, no matter how this war ends, Ukraine is nowhere near being in a position where it will need to be in order to be accepted by NATO for full membership. By that time who knows if NATO will even still be relevant.
If NATO was so dang irrelevant, why on Earth would anyone think a pledge not to join it would satisfy Vladimir Putin?
It never ceases to amaze me that it's generally the same people who think Putin would be somehow placated by Ukraine's written declaration that they would not or will never join NATO are the same ones who believe that Ukraine is "nowhere near" or "will never" be accepted by NATO. If Ukraine (allegedly) isn't near/never will be accepted by NATO, then why on Earth would a written declaration to abstain the joining serve to pacify the likes of Vladimir Putin? Serious question.
How do you suppose a person who routinely knowingly makes written "promises" with no intention whatsoever of keeping them views others who make written promises?
I had hoped that Team Biden would have handled the Ukraine-Russia situation by doubling down on diplomatic efforts to resolve that regional security challenge rather than ensuring that all out war would ensue without a substantial effort to avoid it.
Honestly, though, your repetition of this Russian talking point is seriously worn out at this point. Blaming the United States and/or Ukraine for the escalation of war because they did not bend to Putin's list of demands is literally a Russian talking point.
Would a serious diplomatic effort - one that didn't include taking a major element off the negotiating table - have made any difference to Putin's intentions? I don't know.
When Ukraine's parliament voted to remove Viktor Yanukovych (he fled to Russia), they discussed the idea but chose at that time not to change their neutral status. After losing his man in Ukraine, Putin then occupied and annexed Crimea and in August 2014 invaded eastern Ukraine to support its separatist proxies. Because of Putin's actions, in December 2014 Ukraine's parliament voted to end its neutral status, and in 2018 voted to enshrine their goal of NATO membership in their Constitution.
Taking NATO membership off the negotiating table made the rest of the diplomatic effort non-serious.
It had been off the table for years and had been enshrined in the Ukrainian Constitution.
If Putin had thoughts of expanding his empire, then his unwise choice to invade Ukraine with the intention of occupying the whole country should put those delusions to rest.
If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.
Finally, I am having great difficulty posting comments because of some sort of issue with passwords and error messages about connections that are not secure...
Remember when many of us discussed this same issue in a prior comments section around Christmas, and you stated you weren't having any problems at all? Remember how Bashi saved Christmas by kindly informing us that installing Firefox would clear the issues? It works, you know. :)
Folks,
I have been trying to follow this conversation, and as I noted before, you seem to be talking past each other.
But I did notice one thing, when the Chamberlain / Munich example was brought up explicitly as an example of "appeasement" that is, frankly, the classic to which everyone points. For instance, the Vietnam War was justified for many years with the argument that one should never again appease a tyrant with a negotiated handover of a weak client state.
But what I noticed was: Hitler had not attacked Czechoslovakia yet. He was threatening to, but there was no war at that point. So what Chamberlain (and the French) did was give Hitler the strategic Sudetenland provinces of Czechoslovakia, fatally weakening the rump state, in return for a promise not to make war on the rest of that country. He was "appeased" - given what he said he wanted, in return for "peace in our time" as Chamberlain unfortunately put it.
Now to our own time. Putin wants, say, the eastern Donbas provinces and the Crimean peninsula of Ukraine, which he claims are really Russian not Ukrainian (like Hitler said the Sudetenland was really ethnically German, not Czech). If the West under Biden or Trump in the 2012-2022 period had negotiated that Russia would get those provinces without any war or opposition by the West -- well, that would have been appeasement. No question. And sure, the obvious parallel with Hitler would be that Putin might still have gone on to invade the rest of Ukraine a few years later, for a full conquest and absorbtion of the whole country, just as Hitler did only a few months after the Munich agreement. So "appeasement" was discredited in the eyes of history.
But Biden and the West did not do that, even if they didn't go to war to return Crimea and the easternmost provinces to Ukraine in that time. They didn't formally appease Putin by explicitly agreeing that the Crimean annexation was fine, as long as Putin promised that that was all he wanted. They imposed sanctions and refused to recognize the annexations.
Now cut to 2025. Russia did invade the rest of Ukraine, and has effectively occupied the eastern 20% of the country, and seems able to hold onto it despite heroic attempts by Ukraine to retake it. There is an ongoing war.
Now Elizabeth here on our forum advocates that Ukraine face the facts that it has lost the war - that is, it cannot regain its territory by full-out military force. Why not, she says (if I understand her) negotiate a peace on that basis, much as many other countries in a losing position in a war have negotiated peaces in which the opponent scores a limited victory, and gains the territory it fought to conquer? The result is loss of territory - and peace, with its cessation of casualties and destruction and death by attrition.
That is not appeasement, as I see it. I may not agree with Elizabeth here - but she is making a sensible argument on facts and realism that one may or may not concede, but that do have a military and political logic, unpleasant as it is to those who support Ukraine and want it to be free of Russian control and influence.
It's not appeasement though. Appeasement attempts to prevent a war by conceding territory to an aggressor. The war has already happened. It's not appeasement to - if one takes this course - recognize a military loss and negotiate the best settlement one can get.
JMCT
But it’s NOT a military loss it’s essentially a stalemate, and time is against Putin. A big reason why it’s a stalemate is because the West slow walked weapons upgrades to Ukraine because Putin kept threatening to nuke London. Last year fucking Biden finally allowed the use of American weapons to strike targets INSIDE Russia. It took Ukraine invading Kursk Oblast to prove it was all saber rattling. F-16s are arriving which will allow Ukraine to achieve local air superiority. Which can definitely help crack the Russian lines.
Apparently you skipped over,
Quite the opposite. It’s Russia that’s negotiating from a position of weakness. Let’s remember that Russia has traded all of the costs of war for these results:
Russia has spent enormous amounts of treasure and blood for a stalemate. The non-American West is united like never before and now features new members Finland and Sweden. Russia is the most sanctioned regime in human history, and they’re getting nothing but tighter. Inflation in Russia is officially 9.4% but a lot of staples have gotten considerably more expensive. The Russian prime rate is 21%. The Ruble has fallen to a penny. Westerners ran all those Siberian resource extraction operations because neither the Russians nor the Chinese know how. And their parts and expertise are gone and they’re not coming back. The Ukrainians have already taken out a seventh of Russia’s oil refineries and the “shadow fleet” has seen four sinkings to date. And how about that Black Sea Fleet? Russian crude will come off the market because they cannot store what they cannot export. When the wells and pipelines stop flowing they’ll freeze. Which means redrilling and rebuilding everything. That least happened in the 1990s and it took them thirty years to do this.
Even if none of this is true allowing Putin to hold a square meter of Ukraine tells him (and China) to “do whatever the hell they want,” no?
Ukrainian peace plan: Russia get the fuck out of our country.
Elizabeth I’d still like your response to my five assertions (above).
But but but Trump is cutting off Ukraine! They’re doomed!
No, they’re not. America is important but not indispensable. For example, you remember that $61B aid package the adults finally dragged across the finish line? Only 10% of that has actually been delivered because 80% of this aid is spent on America munitions and we’re sending Ukraine equipment that we otherwise will scrap.
Europe combined has contributed roughly $175B and the Americans a little over $140B. So Biden getting Europe together on the same page has been the most important thing that America has done for Ukraine because American ammo is more trickling than pouring in.
MtnCaddy [139]
Thanks for that. I didn't say that one could disagree with Elizabeth's apparent conclusion that Ukraine had best settle for a military stalemate - essentially, a defeat if it ends with Russia holding territory it didn't hold before its invasion. You argue that, to the contrary, Ukraine will eventually succeed and should keep fighting on with the support of its Western allies as Russia's strength fails.
Very good. The debate is, however, not analogous to Munich 1938, and its infamous "appeasement". Now, so to speak, we are in France in spring 1940, and you and Elizabeth are debating whether to continue fighting Germany on French soil, or ask for an armistice and negotiate for a remnant French state in Vichy. It's not the same situation militarily, of course. But the debate is about whether and how to end an ongoing war of invasion - not whether and how to appease Russia to prevent an invasion.
Thus my point - I don't think "appeasement" is what this argument is about, so the word could well be dropped.
Again, thanks for your response.
John M from Ct.
138
I have been trying to follow this conversation, and as I noted before, you seem to be talking past each other.
MtnCaddy and I are not talking past each other on this issue and have not been doing so for multiple years now. If we seem to be "talking past" Elizabeth, it's probably because we have recently learned she does not understand the concept of appeasement.
But what I noticed was: Hitler had not attacked Czechoslovakia yet. He was threatening to, but there was no war at that point.
That is sadly incorrect. He Who Must Not Be Named had already made clear his expansionist aims in March 1936 when -- in violation of the Treaty of Versailles -- he ordered his German forces to reoccupy the Rhineland (bordering France). In March 1938, he then annexed Austria. At the conference in Munich that September, Chamberlain seemed to have averted war by agreeing that Germany could occupy the Sudetenland (the part of Czechoslovakia wherein they spoke German).
So what Chamberlain (and the French) did was give Hitler the strategic Sudetenland provinces of Czechoslovakia, fatally weakening the rump state, in return for a promise not to make war on the rest of that country.
After Germany's violation of the Treaty of Versailles in the Rhineland and its annexation of Austria, I cannot fathom why anyone in Britain would allow it.
He was "appeased" - given what he said he wanted, in return for "peace in our time" as Chamberlain unfortunately put it.
Britain and France were weak, and HWMNBN had already proven he could not be trusted. They were foolish... except, of course, Churchill.
Now to our own time. Putin wants, say, the eastern Donbas provinces and the Crimean peninsula of Ukraine, which he claims are really Russian not Ukrainian (like Hitler said the Sudetenland was really ethnically German, not Czech). If the West under Biden or Trump in the 2012-2022 period had negotiated that Russia would get those provinces without any war or opposition by the West -- well, that would have been appeasement.
Obviously.
No question.
So "appeasement" was discredited in the eyes of history.
But Biden and the West did not do that, even if they didn't go to war to return Crimea and the easternmost provinces to Ukraine in that time. They didn't formally appease Putin by explicitly agreeing that the Crimean annexation was fine, as long as Putin promised that that was all he wanted. They imposed sanctions and refused to recognize the annexations.
Okay.
Now cut to 2025. Russia did invade the rest of Ukraine, and has effectively occupied the eastern 20% of the country, and seems able to hold onto it despite heroic attempts by Ukraine to retake it. There is an ongoing war.
Why not cut to 2021 when Russia began amassing thousands of troops on the border of Ukraine and subsequently to 2022 when they threatened to escalate the ongoing conflict unless a laundry list of numerous Russian demands were met including the prohibitions against Ukraine joining NATO?
Now Elizabeth here on our forum advocates that Ukraine face the facts that it has lost the war - that is, it cannot regain its territory by full-out military force.
Not exactly. Elizabeth advocated multiple times on our forum that Ukraine and the West should appease Putin's demands (see above at [114]) in order to avoid the escalation of war in 2022, which she appeared at that time to believe Ukraine had no chance of winning. Subsequent to that time, she has actually said that Ukraine did win because Putin did not achieve his goal.
Why not, she says (if I understand her) negotiate a peace on that basis, much as many other countries in a losing position in a war have negotiated peaces in which the opponent scores a limited victory, and gains the territory it fought to conquer? The result is loss of territory - and peace, with its cessation of casualties and destruction and death by attrition.
No offense whatsoever, but it appears you don't understand her position on this issue.
That is not appeasement, as I see it. I may not agree with Elizabeth here - but she is making a sensible argument on facts and realism that one may or may not concede, but that do have a military and political logic, unpleasant as it is to those who support Ukraine and want it to be free of Russian control and influence.
In 2022, to have capitulated to Putin's laundry list of demands -- that included severe weakening of Ukraine's fighting forces -- in order to avoid his promised escalation of war and taking of Kyiv would have been appeasement of the highest order. I cannot fathom why anyone would appease Putin considering his words and actions prior to 2022, including the violation of prior treaties, etc.
It's not appeasement though. Appeasement attempts to prevent a war by conceding territory to an aggressor.
Appeasement is a strategy of foreign policy wherein a nation makes multiple concessions and/or grants advantages to an aggressor or a potential aggressor in order to prevent war/avoid conflict and can involve but does not require the giving up of territory to appease.
The war has already happened.
It had not escalated when Russia presented its list of demands to avoid their expanded aggression and taking of Kyiv and thus Ukraine.
It's not appeasement to - if one takes this course - recognize a military loss and negotiate the best settlement one can get.
However, in 2022, Ukraine had definitely not already lost when they refused to appease Putin's list of demands in order to avoid what Putin thought would be a few weeks march to Kyiv and to victory. Fast forward to 2025, and Ukraine still has not lost despite refusing to capitulate to Putin's list of demands.
Kick [143]
Thanks for the extensive reply. I think my post today on the misuses of 'appeasement' in characterizing Elizabeth's positions was about her current posts - not her past ones, before the war. I don't remember them, I guess, while you do.
Maybe you are accusing her of having been a "appeaser" in the past, and of being a "defeatist" in the present - now that Putin's war that was merely threatened in the past is actually being waged?
Again, thanks for your considerate answering post.
John,
Thanks for being a voice of reason on this blog and particularly on the issue of the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine.
There have been many statements of fact here that are merely misguided assumptions. I'll be back here tonight when I have more time to explain again my thinking on this issue since before the 2022 invasion.
I would love to discuss all of this with you!
John M from Ct.
144
Thanks for the extensive reply. I think my post today on the misuses of 'appeasement' in characterizing Elizabeth's positions was about her current posts - not her past ones, before the war. I don't remember them, I guess, while you do.
While my posts in characterizing her position were in definite reference to her past posts.
Maybe you are accusing her of having been a "appeaser" in the past, and of being a "defeatist" in the present - now that Putin's war that was merely threatened in the past is actually being waged?
I'm not accusing her of anything in the present; however, her posts in the past were definitely those of appeasement.
Again, thanks for your considerate answering post.
Thank you for yours. :)
Elizabeth Miller
145
There have been many statements of fact here that are merely misguided assumptions.
Most of them coming directly from you in advocating the appeasement of the Russian dictator while posting talking points that come directly from the Kremlin.
I'll be back here tonight when I have more time to explain again my thinking on this issue since before the 2022 invasion.
*
I reiterate: Your so-called "definition of common sense" is literally the definition of appeasement of an aggressor.
While you're explaining to John your "thinking," please kindly finally answer MtnCaddy's questions that you've continued to dodge, and please explain why on Earth you would advocate that the "US and its NATO allies have a role to play here, too. They can demand he accept the Russian offer." That demand for which you advocated is the literal definition of appeasement of Putin's "offer," which you -- in no uncertain terms -- specifically stated that the United States and NATO should demand of Zelensky/Ukraine, i.e., the appeasement of the Russian dictator who'd proven repeatedly that his agreements aren't worth the paper they're written on.
I would love to discuss all of this with you!
And MtnCaddy (I presume) and I definitely would love for either of you to explain to us how that post (and similar posts of yours) wherein you literally provide the aggressor's terms and then advocate (demand) for the appeasement of the terms of an aggressor.
Yes Elizabeth I’d really appreciate you addressing my questions.
C’mon Elizabeth! It’s just five questions and I’m dying to hear your logic.
Hey, Caddy!
C’mon Elizabeth! It’s just five questions and I’m dying to hear your logic.
Did you not see my answers to your questions in my [130] and then your own response to that in [134-135]?
Let me try to elaborate a bit more and respond to your [135]:
So you’re saying that because Russia has occupied Ukraine for hundreds of years they should be allowed to re conquer Ukraine?
No, I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying is that if Zelensky takes steps to end this war now through tough negotiation (I believe Z will be a MUCH tougher negotiator than Trump would ever be), then I think Ukraine would end up holding on to more of its territory in the long run and, eventually, regain most if not all of its internationally recognized border - not through military force, obviously, but through persistent and strong-headed diplomacy.
If you assert that corruption dooms Ukraine’s prospective NATO membership then you don’t know that there are two chapters in the history of Ukrainian corruption: ... ... Since [2014] it has made vast improvements [on addressing corruption] ... ... And NATO will become even more relevant should America withdraw from it.
I don't assert that corruption dooms Ukraine's potential NATO membership but it still has a very, very long way to go to meet all of NATO's requirements for prospective members. I do think that Putin has succeeded in making Ukrainian membership in NATO far more likely now than it ever was before his latest invasion and delusional attempt to occupy the whole of Ukraine so, there's that. :)
John/Caddy/Kick,
The discussion that has been going on here in the comments sections of Chris’s blog over the last three years regarding the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022 has been less than enlightening. I hope that, going forward, should Chris write about the subject (I still would prefer not to take up any space in the comments sections of Chris's blog discussing topics that aren’t part of his columns), that we are all mature enough to have a cogent discussion about serious and difficult subject matter where we each have our own valid and often passionate opinions without the childish name-calling, insults and other accusatory language. I continue to look forward to that day! A girl can dream.
Now, I would like to set the record straight on my thinking regarding the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022 once and for all. I will leave the proof of the veracity of what I will say here up to our resident archivist. I am sure that Kick will be more than happy to oblige whenever she feels the need. I will simply outline my thinking and how it has evolved over the course of the last three years, answering what some consider to be outstanding questions as best I can. I am no geopolitical expert but have been following world events, historical and current, for the last four decades, in a more or less casual manner. Consequently, I have always been open to learning more about these issues. Which is why I crave a kind of discussion that sheds more light than heat, as they say.
This is necessarily going to take some time and more than a few non-brief comments, to be sure. Because I want to fully address all of the accusations and misguided assumptions that have been made in reaction to the comments I have already made, simple to understand as apparently they are.
Let me start with a short note to address some of the complaints and criticisms and false accusations that have been directed my way in recent days.
I have never dodged Caddy’s repeated and disrespectfully asked questions nor have I failed to watch the video he keeps asking me to watch. I have given him my answers to his questions – as recently as just the other day - within this very thread, in fact - more than once and have also given him my thoughts on the video(s) he has asked me to watch. He doesn’t like my answers, I guess, so he keeps asking. I don’t understand that behavior.
As for Kick, rather than engage honestly and respectfully with me in an effort to promote understanding, on both our parts, she mistakenly accuses me of parroting Kremlin talking points and advocating appeasement since before the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, as if I am not able to think for myself nor form any of my own opinions on what is happening in the crazy world in which we live.
Over the course of the next few days and mostly for the benefit of John, whom I think provides the gold standard of engagement here in Weigantia, I will provide a comprehensive break-down of my thinking and a summary of the comments I have made here over the years on this topic. I will be going from memory, such as it is these days, and certainly not back-tracking through three years worth of pages in this blog. Again, I will leave that task to Kick if she feels I have led anyone astray.
... to be continued! (but not tonight)
Cheers!