Democrats Prepare To Respond To Trump's Speech
It is time for Democrats to step up to the plate. President Donald Trump will address Congress and the nation tonight, and will doubtlessly boast about all the wonderful things he thinks he has been doing. In doing so, he will also doubtlessly lie about many of them in shameless fashion, since that's what he always does. But Democrats need to not get distracted and remain focused on one thing above all else. Call it a return to: "It's the economy, stupid."
From all indications, it looks like this is exactly what they are going to do, which is heartening news. Here's a good start, from an article today on the expected Democratic response:
"Democrats need to start holding Donald Trump accountable," said Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Massachusetts). "He said he would lower prices for American families, quote, 'on Day One.' So far, he has done virtually nothing to lower prices or even to indicate that it's somewhere on his radar screen."
That is the way to lead with your strong suit. Because it is Trump's weakest point right now, and it's getting weaker by the day. Here's another senator's take on what the Democratic message should be:
Sen. Brian Schatz (D-Hawaii) said Democrats would emphasize the risk of cuts to services. "Republicans are cutting Medicare and Medicaid and firing veterans to create budget room for a tax cut for the wealthiest people to ever walk the planet," he said.
"I think we should never stop saying that," he added. “I don't think we should come up with clever new ways to say that. I don't think we should move to change our message from week to week. This is what they are doing."
Trump ran on bringing prices down. Joe Biden was politically vulnerable, after inflation spiked in the middle of his term. It was a powerful issue for Republicans. But since they won back power, they have done literally nothing to address the issue (unless you count "actions which make things worse").
So flip the issue on them, because it is just as potent as it was last year. Point out that the price of eggs keeps going up. Point out the fact that Trump's tariffs are starting a worldwide trade war -- and this is going to raise the price of a lot of other things, in the very near future. Such as gasoline, for instance (always a potent issue with the general public). It is easy to make this case: "Tariffs are a tax on you. When you have to pay more in the grocery store or the gas pump or at an auto dealership, you are paying a Trump tax, plain and simple."
Point out that inflation is going to rise as a direct result of all of this too. Inflation had actually fallen back to a reasonable level (under three percent) by the time Biden left office, but it's about to head back up again with the new Trump tax.
Point out that America's farmers are going to be hurt by this trade war. One of the first things other countries do when America levies a tariff on them is to slap their own big tariff on American farm products. This means farmers in all those red states aren't going to be able to sell to the rest of the world anymore, because countries will be looking for other (cheaper) produce to buy, from other countries. The last time Trump did this (in his first term), he had to bail American farmers out, using our tax dollars. Remind them of this, because it will likely become necessary once again.
Republicans in Congress are about to slash Medicaid in order to pay for tax cuts for billionaires. They deny this, but it is inescapable. When confronted by it, they mumble about cutting only "waste, fraud, and abuse." But that doesn't add up to the $880 billion in cuts that they are planning. Trump always says he's not going to touch Medicare and Medicaid, but if the Republicans follow their own budget blueprint then that is going to turn out to be a huge lie. One Democratic House member had a good point worth making on the subject:
"There's this perception that people on Medicaid are poor, that they're freeloaders, that Medicaid needs to be reformed because there are a lot of people who are lazy and benefiting from it," [Representative Suhas] Subramanyam said. "If you want to know who's on Medicaid, just go talk to your neighbors."
It's not just Medicaid, either. Republicans are also planning to slash subsidies which have allowed millions to afford health care policies through Obamacare. These subsidies were boosted during the COVID pandemic, but they are set to expire. And Republicans are going to allow this to happen -- in order to give billionaires tons of money. So point this out, because it shows what their priorities truly are.
All of this taken together could very easily send the American economy into a recession. A Federal Reserve Bank prediction of growth has collapsed just in the past few weeks. On February 19th, they were predicting a fairly healthy 2.3 percent growth for the first quarter of this year. Now -- only two weeks later -- this prediction has plummeted to negative 2.8 percent. Democrats need to raise the alarm on this: "Sometimes politicians are caught unawares by a recession, but other times it's the politicians who cause a recession!"
The job market could be affected as well. Joe Biden didn't have a single month with job losses during his entire presidency, but with Trump and his buddy Elon Musk firing people left and right for no reason, and with the economic outlook getting dimmer by the week, we could start to see big job losses return once again. Musk is firing thousands of American veterans and plenty of other hardworking government employees without caring one whit what this means not only to their lives but to the local economies of the areas they live in. They are doing all this to save money so they can hand it to people just like Elon Musk -- people who are already the richest of the rich. And doing so is not going to improve government "efficiency," it is going to do the opposite. It is going to increase inefficiency. Taxpayers who need a question answered are going to have a very long wait on hold, because there won't be many people answering the phones anymore. National Parks will not be able to serve the public because so many employees have been fired. And next time you get on a plane, you better hope that the air traffic controllers aren't too overworked. This is what all these blanket firings will mean to the public.
Tonight, Senator Elissa Slotkin will have the chance to make all of these points. She hails from Michigan, where she got elected even though the state very narrowly went for Trump. Hopefully, this was a good choice for Democrats -- a Midwestern senator who can speak directly to the economic fears of average Americans. Hopefully, she'll avoid taking the bait on all sorts of other issues Trump will likely raise in his speech tonight and instead zero in on his broken promises to bring prices down for everyone. Because tariffs aren't going to do that.
She might want to bring up one final point as well. Trump's secretary of Agriculture just gave an interview where she had a stunning answer for American shoppers who are feeling the pain every time they buy a dozen eggs. You know what it was? "People are sort of looking around thinking: 'Wow, well maybe I can get a chicken in my backyard,' and it's awesome." That's their answer, folks. If you don't like the price of eggs, just raise your own chickens. You're on your own, good luck! It's not quite: "Let them eat cake," but it shows a similar level of being incredibly out of touch and not caring about average people at all. Trump promised to bring prices down, not force everyone to raise their own chickens. He promised to start doing so on Day One. It's been a whole bunch of days since then, and he has done nothing but make the problem worse. Promise made, promise broken.
-- Chris Weigant
Follow Chris on Twitter: @ChrisWeigant
WaPoop... BARRONS... HuffPoop... :eyeroll:
It's going to be VERY interesting when WaPoop goes full on PRESIDENT Trump and becomes WaPo.... :D
Anyways... Gonna watch MOANA 2 with the grandkids...
See ya'all in the morning.. :D
Nice to see you weighing in on the debate we commenters were having in the wake of your last post: "What's the best Talking Point for Dems to use against Trump's tariff policy"!
And although I won't be watching the TV tonight, just like every other night, I appreciate your guidance to Rep. Slotkin to ignore every other aspect of the Republican president's speech in favor of focusing on his economic crimes against the people. Stay on message, Dems, plain and simple even when the zone is absolutely flooded with s***, per Mr. Bannon's phrasing.
President Donald Trump will address Congress and the nation tonight, and will doubtlessly boast about all the wonderful things he thinks he has been doing. In doing so, he will also doubtlessly lie about many of them in shameless fashion, since that's what he always does.
It definitely appears to be a universal-type trait for many of the MAGAts that they seem to live in fear of being discovered to be a fraud and therefore demand continuous obeisance to feed their needy egos. The constant inventing of their own reality and demanding the awarding of trophies to themselves is hysterical to watch.
After a MAGAt is done telling you how great they are, they will invariably perform a complete 180 and recite the list of grievances of how somebody/everybody did them wrong. I cannot fathom why the gullible rank and file rubes perceive this dichotomy as a projection of strength when on its face it's pure unadulterated wailing wimp wussy.
But since they won back power, they have done literally nothing to address the issue (unless you count "actions which make things worse").
You should definitely count those since the state of our union is the markets plunging for multiple days in succession due to "actions which make things worse."
Meanwhile, the Castrated Caucus fall all over themselves in public to appease Trump's needy ego while behind closed doors they speak "off the record" in some of the vilest terms about the Idiot-in-Chief and his gaslighting shit show.
Wow, well, maybe you can get avian influenza too by coming into contact with a chicken's eggs that come out of the chicken's vent, the same vent where they also emit chicken shit... that'll be awesome.
That's their answer, folks. If you don't like the price of eggs, just raise your own chickens.
Did they perchance mention that not all chickens are hens that lay eggs and that birds are natural predators that eat soft-bodied grubs like fly larvae? Asking for the MAGAts.
Donald's digressions used to be funny. now they're just horribly sad and depressing.
@m,
you used the word retarded 51 times in the last post. perhaps consider making your point in a way that doesn't denigrate those who are the most vulnerable and in need of compassion?
https://www.montclair.edu/school-of-communication-and-media/2025/01/10/use-of-the-slur-retard-triples-on-x-after-elon-musk-shares-the-word-in-a-post/
The chickens comment obviously comes from ignorance--what else is new?--because you can't just walk out of the chicken shop and get eggs the next morning. Maybe not the next several months, if you start with chicks. My personal experience of raising chickens is decades old in my childhood, so I refer you to an FB entry for Frying Pan Acres. I don't know how to link to FB pages, so here's a sample quote. Plentiful online advice also makes it clear just how much is involved.
Raising chickens just isn't as simple as collecting eggs. Chickens are a long-term commitment, not a quick fix for expensive grocery store prices.
If you get baby chicks today, you need a brooder, starter feed, feeders and waterers, a secure heat lamp. Then, you’re looking at 5-7 months before you even see your first egg. And that first egg is going to be tiny. It'll be a few days for her to lay her appropriate size. That’s half a year of feeding, watering, cleaning, and caring for birds before they even start producing. And! Chickens don't lay an egg every single day after that. There is variability within the breeds. **Research your breeds**
Chickens need daily care, secure housing to protect them from predators, clean nest boxes, nutritious feed, clean water, and care if they get sick. They also don’t stop needing care. This is a serious commitment.
JL,
you used the word retarded 51 times in the last post. perhaps consider making your point in a way that doesn't denigrate those who are the most vulnerable and in need of compassion?
There was zero use of the word 'retarded' in the last post..
WaPoop... BARRONS... HuffPoop... :eyeroll:
It's going to be VERY interesting when WaPoop goes full on PRESIDENT Trump and becomes WaPo.... :D
Anyways... Gonna watch MOANA 2 with the grandkids...
See ya'all in the morning.. :D
See???
Not a single solitary 'retarded'..
If you prefer another word, I am open to suggestions.. I am nothing if not amiable.. Liz asked me to ease up on Biden and I have done so..
See?? I aim to please.. :D
Or you could even work towards eliminating ALL name-calling..
THAT would be my preference..
But when do I ever get what I want.. :^/
"Hay Bruce. You want in on this??"
"Not really, but when do I ever get what I want.."
-AVENGERS INFINITY WAR
Mezzo...
Yea... I am SUUURREE PRESIDENT Trump was endeavoring to be accurate on raising chickens...
:eyeroll:
JL,
After this comment, I'll refrain from the word 'retarded' until such time as you give me a viable alternative..
Retarded woke progressive Democrats are so fucking evil and hate PRESIDENT Trump so much that they can't even stand and cheer for a boy who has fought and beat brain cancer for 6 years!!
http://mfccfl.us/stand.jpg
How utterly EVIL do you have to be to hate someone SOOO much and SOOOO deeply that you ignore the courage of a brave kid just to spite the object of your hate???
:eyeroll:
ANYONE that backs a group of people like THAT is sick in the head.. Plain and simple...
PRESIDENT Trump made this kid's dream come true and your fucking EVIL and RETARDED woke progressive Democrats couldn't even honor THAT good deed... Can't even stand to honor a kid who has bravely fought BRAIN CANCER for 6 years!!!
I am going to be in a foul mood today and ya'all will have your evil fucking retarded woke progressive Democrats to blame...
how about stupid? I'm not opposed to name calling in general, it's just that retarded is to the mentally disabled what fa**ot is to gays
The recent incident during PRESIDENT Trump's speech, where a 13-year-old cancer survivor, DJ Daniel, was honored and many woke progressive Democrats chose to remain seated, has sparked outrage and disappointment across social media. This moment was not just a recognition of a brave young boy who has fought through the harrowing challenges of brain cancer; it was an opportunity for all members of Congress to come together and honor the resilience of a child who dreams of serving his community as a police officer. Yet, the response from the woke progressive Democrats was disheartening and utterly shameful.
As DJ Daniel was recognized and made an honorary Secret Service agent, the lack of applause and standing ovation from woke progressive Democrats was glaring. This was not merely a political moment; it was a human one. A terminally ill child, who has faced unimaginable struggles, deserved to be celebrated by all, regardless of political affiliation. The refusal of many woke progressive Democrats to stand for this brave young boy raises serious questions about the values and sincerity of the woke progressive Democrat Party.. Are woke progressive Democrats so entrenched in their political agendas and their Trump/America hate and their PTDS that they cannot find it within themselves to honor a child who has fought for his life!!!??? How completely and utterly PATHETIC!!!
Patriotic Americans on social media were quick to express their dismay and utter DISGUST at the woke progressive Democrat Party!! Activist Ric Grennell pointed out the stark reality: "A terminally ill child with brain cancer is given an honorary Secret Service award and the Democrats refuse to stand or clap for the child." How utterly CONTEMPTIBLE!!
This sentiment was echoed by many others who were appalled at the lack of basic decency shown by woke progressive Democrats.
The actions of these woke progressive Democrats reflect a troubling trend where political ideology, Trump/America hate and PTDS supersedes even the most BASIC compassion and humanity!
The reactions from various commentators highlight the broader implications of this incident. Outkick founder Clay Travis lamented, "Democrats refused to stand for the brain cancer surviving kid! How awful can one party be?" Indeed, this incident shows that the depths of hatred, intolerance and bigotry knows NO DEPTHS for the woke progressive Democrat Party!
This is not just about a single moment; it speaks to a larger issue of how political divisions can lead to a lack of empathy. When a party cannot unite to honor a child battling cancer, it raises concerns about their ability to connect with the very people they claim to represent.
While some may argue that the moment was politicized, the essence of the situation remains unchanged. DJ Daniel's story is one of hope and resilience, and it should transcend partisan lines. Meghan McCain, who has personal experience with brain cancer through her late father, expressed her emotional response, stating, "This is so beautiful. Anyone who has been impacted by brain cancer knows how special this is." This is a reminder that, at the end of the day, we are all human beings capable of compassion. Apparently such capability for compassion DOES NOT extend to woke progressive Democrats!! :eyeroll:
So, let's recap... The failure of woke progressive Democrats to stand and honor DJ Daniel is a reflection of a deeper issue within the woke progressive Democrat Party.
It is a call to action for all political leaders to prioritize humanity over politics. We must remember that moments like these are not just about political allegiance; they are about recognizing the strength and courage of individuals who inspire us all.
The woke progressive Democrats should take a hard look at their values and consider how they can better honor the brave individuals in our society, especially those who have faced such daunting challenges.
If Democrats can't even muster the courage to look past their Trump/America hate and their PTDS to honor the most honorable among us??
They have no business being in public service for the American people..
So say we all....
how about stupid? I'm not opposed to name calling in general, it's just that retarded is to the mentally disabled what fa**ot is to gays
You mean, like using the word "cock holster"??
Weigantian Trolls throw that word around a lot even though it's no different than "faggot" in etymology...
Stoopid doesn't quite do it to describe the foul and disgusting nature of woke progressive Democrats..
"witless" or "brain-less" comes closer..
Do you have anything closer to those??
Brain-dead.. Brain-dead is good too...
i meant on CW's last post. and yes, whichever of those is just fine. it's not about etymology, what matters fa&&ot is what straight people call each other as an insult, and retard is what the non-disabled call each other as an insult. that is what makes it a slur, rather than just garden variety tastelessness.
i really appreciate that you are open to this change, it means a lot.
JL
Consider it done..
Brain-Dead it is then.. :D
i really appreciate that you are open to this change, it means a lot.
Of course.. *I* am the reasonable one here.. :D
Apparently ya'all have been shamed into silence..
That's good..
It shows that there is at least a SMALL bit of a spark of humanity left in ya'all.
Ya'all realize how utterly contemptible the brain dead woke progressive Democrats' in-actions were and are embarrassed and ashamed by that in-action..
Good on you...
CW,
That is the way to lead with your strong suit. Because it is Trump's weakest point right now, and it's getting weaker by the day.
And then you woke up and realized it was all nothing but a wet dream... :D
CNN poll showed that almost 70% of Americans had a very positive reaction or a somewhat positive reaction to PRESIDENT Trump's speech.. Compare that to 31% who had a negative reaction to PRESIDENT Trump's speech and you'll clearly see that describing PRESIDENT Trump as being "at his weakest point" is nothing but a woke progressive Democrat's wet dream.. :D
It is easy to make this case: "Tariffs are a tax on you. When you have to pay more in the grocery store or the gas pump or at an auto dealership, you are paying a Trump tax, plain and simple."
Just as when ODUMBO used tariffs, we were paying the ODUBMO tax.. Just as when Biden used tariffs, we were paying the BIDEN tax.. :eyeroll:
It's funny how brain dead woke progressive Democrats LOVED tariffs when it was THEIR guy who was using tariffs, eh??
Hypocrisy. It's not a bug in Democrat programming. It's a feature.
Republicans in Congress are about to slash Medicaid in order to pay for tax cuts for billionaires. They deny this, but it is inescapable.
Once again, another brain dead woke progressive Democrat wet dream that has not even an IOTA of fact to support it..
All in all, this is just a commentary loaded with nothing but sour grapes...
It's understandable to be sure.. But one of these days ya'all are going to have to come to grips that PRESIDENT Trump is YOUR President..
Then ya'all will have to decide.
Do ya'all want to HELP America be great again??
Or do you want to HURT America and HARM Americans just so you can blame it on PRESIDENT Trump??
Choose wisely....
So, we have established that brain dead woke progressive Democrats have lost their souls for not honoring a 13yr old kid who has survived over 6 years with brain cancer..
Brain dead woke progressive Democrats ALSO ignored the plight of 19 yr old Payton McNabb who was brutally and permanently injured because a female-cosplaying male was allowed to participate in girls sports..
During PRESIDENT Trump's recent address, the coldness displayed by brain dead woke progressive Democrats towards Payton McNabb was nothing short of shocking. McNabb, a 19-year-old former volleyball player, suffered severe injuries—including a concussion, brain bleed, and permanent whiplash—after being injured by a female cosplaying male athlete who participated in girls sports in 2022. Instead of honoring her courage and resilience, brain dead Democrats chose to remain seated and silent, a decision that speaks volumes about their priorities.
McNabb's story is not just a personal tragedy; it highlights the dangers of allowing biological males to compete in women's sports. By failing to stand and applaud for her, Democrats not only disrespected her journey but also ignored the broader implications for female athletes everywhere.
Their refusal to support the Protection of Women and Girls in Sports Act, which would have established crucial protections for female athletes, is a glaring example of how they have failed women. That explains why women overwhelmingly voted for PRESIDENT Trump in the 2024 election.
Instead of advocating for the safety and fairness of women's sports, they opted to wear pink in a hollow display of support while simultaneously blocking legislation that could have made a real difference.
McNabb expressed her heartbreak over the Democrats' actions, stating, "The Democrat party failed women. They don't care." This sentiment resonates with many who see the hypocrisy in brain dead Democrat actions. While they may claim to champion women's rights, their refusal to support legislation that protects female athletes reveals a troubling disconnect.
It’s embarrassing that brain dead Democrats would rather engage in theatrics than stand in solidarity with a young woman who has faced unimaginable challenges. Challenges DIRECTLY caused by Democrats and their inaction to protect athletes like McNabb..
Payton McNabb's experience should serve as a wake-up call, reminding us all of the importance of protecting women's sports and the athletes who compete in them.
Here is the most realistic and factually accurate review of PRESIDENT Trump's awesome speech..
Courtesy of REAL CLEAR politics, the ONLY OFFICIAL Weigantian News Source...
In his recent address to Congress, PRESIDENT Trump boldly declared, “America is back!” This proclamation set the tone for a speech that was both a celebration of his administration's achievements and a pointed critique of the Democrats, who sat in silence throughout much of the address. PRESIDENT Trump’s rhetoric was unapologetic and combative, as he outlined his vision for a “common-sense revolution” aimed at reclaiming America’s greatness.
PRESIDENT Trump’s speech lasted an impressive one hour and 40 minutes, during which he reiterated many of his campaign promises, including a commitment to cut federal funding for schools that allow transgender athletes to compete in women’s sports. This particular stance drew applause from the Republican side of the aisle, while Democrats remained seated, showcasing a stark divide in priorities. PRESIDENT Trump’s comments on reclaiming the Panama Canal and predicting the acquisition of Greenland were met with mixed reactions, but they underscored his ambition to expand American influence globally.
One of the most notable moments came when PRESIDENT Trump referenced his survival of an assassination attempt, claiming it was a divine intervention that allowed him to fulfill his mission to make America great again. This statement elicited visible shock from Democratic leaders, including Nancy Pelosi, who was seen mouthing “Oh my God” in disbelief. Such moments of theatricality were not lost on the audience, as PRESIDENT Trump effectively used them to rally his base while further alienating his opponents.
Democratic representatives, dressed in pink to protest PRESIDENT Trump’s policies, held placards with messages like “Save Medicare” and “Musk Steals,” but their protests did little to disrupt the president’s momentum. Instead, they highlighted the growing chasm between the two parties. PRESIDENT Trump’s invitation for Democrats to join him in celebrating America’s achievements fell flat, as they remained unresponsive, illustrating their unwillingness to engage with his AMERICA FIRST agenda.
PRESIDENT Trump’s focus on law and order resonated with many, particularly when he honored DJ Daniel, a young boy battling brain cancer who dreams of becoming a police officer. This moment showed how Democrats are so enthralled and in the grip of Trump/America hate and PTDS that they would ignore and sit in stony silence at such a heartwarming story about a brave kid with dreams of being a cop..
As PRESIDENT Trump concluded his address, he hinted at even greater changes to come, promising that his administration would deliver results like “nothing that has ever been seen before.” This bold assertion, coupled with his unapologetic style, left a lasting impression on viewers, many of whom found his performance entertaining and engaging. In a political landscape marked by division, PRESIDENTTrump’s address served as a reminder of the stark contrasts between his administration and the Democratic opposition, setting the stage for the ongoing battle for America’s future.
It was a helluva speech and it showed perfectly how the brain dead woke progressive Democrat Party is on it's deathbed..
Taking a step back and looking at things objectively....
Not standing for a sickly 13 year old whose eyes got bigger than dinner plates when Trump made him an honorary agent was a bad look. A VERY bad look that should leave brain dead woke progressive Democrats hanging their heads in shame..
Not standing for Laken Riley and the other murdered Americans, victims of Biden/Harris open border policies was even worse. Democrats came off as callous and uncaring. Which is, basically, what they are.. Callous and uncaring..
Then came the story of the 13 dead at Abbey Gate... And not standing for the murderer being caught...
THAT was just the lowest of the low...
Full on bona fide FACT that proves woke progressive Democrats have lost their souls..
Woke progressive Democrats have no heart and no soul...
PRESIDENT Trump put this fact on display for all to see..
And Americans will remember in the 2026 mid-terms..
Okay Elizabeth,
The Cher video told me I’m probably not on your shit list, so I have a little something for you:
This 5:11 Peter Zeihan hiking in the mountains talking geopolitics video answers a key question in our conversation Who Started This Whole Thing? The 2022 escalation.
It’s only five minutes in plain English and please tell me the parts that you disagree with and why.
Here’s a quote to wet your whistle.
History tells us that this [the current war] is less a discrete conflict and more just the the normal status of what it’s like to be on the Russian borderlands.
Four plus centuries of back and forth on the killing grounds of the plains of Eastern and Central Europe. Russia has been invaded from every direction starting with the Mongols in 1250.
Here’s another attempted Talking Point:
Politicians have been campaigning against WASTE FRAUD & ABUSE for DECADES now. SO you’re saying that no one ever fixed the problem UNTIL NOW so therefore Elon isn’t cutting anything VITAL? Like food inspections, Medicaid and air traffic controllers ?
Riiight.
MtnCaddy
22
This 5:11 Peter Zeihan hiking in the mountains talking geopolitics video answers a key question in our conversation Who Started This Whole Thing? The 2022 escalation.
Your link isn't working, but I'll use the info you supplied and fix it since I want to watch it:
Who Started This Whole Thing?
:)
Caddy,
Your link doesn't work.
But don't worry about it. You've pointed to this video before, on more than one occasion, as I recall. I watched it then and responded to you in some detail. Which is, ah, archived and in the public record.
I will say, again, that I agree that Russia started this whole thing.
Now, stop bothering me with questions that have already and long ago been asked and answered.
In light of reviewing this video do you still think Biden or anyone could have prevented the 2022 escalation?
Caddy,
You're lucky that I have A LOT of patience.
I don't know if Biden had it in his power - or even in his own wheelhouse, for that matter - to avoid the 2022 war in Ukraine that Russia started, unprovoked and unjustified, and in a wholly unwise choice by Putin.
Let me say that again - I don't know. And, neither do you nor does anyone else in Weigantia.
I do know that Biden's loose rhetoric and actions in the lead up to the war (and indeed, his stance on this subject through the last 30 years of his career) made sure we would never find out and for that I will never forgive him nor consider him a foreign policy expert ever again. Of course, I still won't go as far as former defense secretary Gates did (saying that Biden has been wrong on every foreign policy decision for the last many decades) but that whole discussion now has become decidedly more pertinent.
And, I do know that after Ukraine had successfully and spectacularly repelled the Russian army from advancing on and taking Kyiv, thus preventing Putin from swallowing up the whole of the country, Biden and his crack foreign policy team ignored the mediation efforts by Israel and Turkey to bring a swift end to this war in the spring of 2022 on terms that may yet turn out to have been more favourable to Ukraine than what may come now in any effort to bring this nonsensical war to an end.
So do you disagree with History tells us that this [the current war] is less a discrete conflict and more just the the normal status of what it’s like to be on the Russian borderlands?
Do you deny that the four hundred year history of Russian expansion didn’t happen. That Putin didn’t tell the world that this was what he wanted to happen? That Putin has invaded numerous borderland countries since he took power? That this war started in 2014 and that Russia is attempting genocide against Ukraine?
Yeah, we’ll never know if. in the face of all of the above, some diplomatic endeavor would have prevented the 2022 escalation. But we do know how appeasement worked out in 1938.
FYI peace will not happen until Russia has withdrawn behind the pre-2014 borders, period. It doesn’t matter what the “peace at all costs” crowd wants it’s Ukraine’s decision alone.
They know the score, as does Europe.
I think a big part of the problem here, Caddy, is the notion that there are only two options - war and appeasement. Which is what you appear to subscribe to. I do not.
What do think needs to happen before Russia withdraws to behind the 2014 borders? Do you anticipate that Ukraine and its European partners can accomplish this task on the battlefield?
Elizabeth Miller
29
And, I do know that after Ukraine had successfully and spectacularly repelled the Russian army from advancing on and taking Kyiv, thus preventing Putin from swallowing up the whole of the country, Biden and his crack foreign policy team ignored the mediation efforts by Israel and Turkey to bring a swift end to this war in the spring of 2022 on terms that may yet turn out to have been more favourable to Ukraine than what may come now in any effort to bring this nonsensical war to an end.
End? With Trump giving Putin everything he could hope for?
Again, it is wholly incorrect that "Biden and his crack foreign policy team ignored the mediation efforts." Ukraine and NATO were given a laundry list of terms as mandated by Russia, which they made public (which I have posted multiple times) that were never a serious attempt at negotiation. No one ignored the nonserious attempt by Russia... far from it; it was a laughable list of demands that Ukraine and surrounding NATO countries substantially weaken so that Putin could easily roll through them at a date to be determined in the future.
When Putin has made it infinitely clear in no uncertain terms that he does not believe Ukraine has a right to exist, any "swift end to this war" is not likely to be a lasting peace but rather simply an agreement not worth the paper it's written on, not negotiated in good faith by Putin/Russia (as per usual) and simply act as a temporary ceasefire vehicle wherein Russia pulls back temporarily in order to regroup for the next invasion of Ukraine.
It seems highly unlikely that this scenario will change unless and until Putin is no longer the leader of Russia and/or Ukraine and their allies have a decisive military defeat of Russia.
Kick,
If you insist on quoting people, then quote them in full:
"Biden and his crack foreign policy team ignored the mediation efforts by Israel and Turkey to bring a swift end to this war in the spring of 2022 on terms that may yet turn out to have been more favourable to Ukraine than what may come now in any effort to bring this nonsensical war to an end."
It seems highly unlikely that this scenario will change unless and until Putin is no longer the leader of Russia and/or Ukraine and their allies have a decisive military defeat of Russia.
Those are the right words - they're just in the wrong order.
By which I mean a decisive military victory by Ukraine and its allies is highly unlikely, if not outright impossible. And, don't be too surprised if Putin isn't the last Russian leader to take a similar stand on the Ukraine file.
Elizabeth
War or appeasement were the only two choices as Russian geopolitical history and both Putin’s words and deeds made it crystal clear that this escalation was always going to happen.
33
Two things will cause the complete withdrawal of Russia and they’ll probably go hand in hand:
1- the Russian economy cannot survive much more than maybe into next year. I won’t repeat the reasons that it’s skating on thin ice as I’ve done so repeatedly.
2- militarily the moment Ukraine takes out the Kerch Strait bridge it will sever Russian supply to not only Crimea but the southwestern Kherson front as well. I believe that either Ukraine already has the ability to do this or will have it shortly. My prediction is that Ukraine does the dirty deed on 9 May just to fuck with Daddy Vladdy.
Another decisive military move would be a southward thrust from the Zaporizhzhia area to the Sea of Azov. This will become possible when Ukraine has enough F-16s et alia to obtain local air superiority in order to blast a path through the trenches. As with taking out the Kerch Strait bridge this will trap a decisive number of Rooskies and end both the war and Putin’s life.
We'll see.
Right now my head is spinning with visions of tariffs dancing in and out... :(
35
By which I mean a decisive military victory by Ukraine and its allies is highly unlikely, if not outright impossible. And, don't be too surprised if Putin isn't the last Russian leader to take a similar stand on the Ukraine file.
How do you figure? Ukraine, basically on its own in February 2022 not only stopped Russia at 20% of Ukrainian territory but later that very same year rolled them back to 10%. Essentially by it’s self. They’ve fought the Russians to a standstill for three years and even hold Russian territory as we speak.
The unprecedented sanctions on Russia's economy which is the size of Italy’s and withdrawal of Western energy extraction expertise ought to mean that the EU has the economic wherewithal to overwhelm Russia. The issue is scaling up production in a timely enough manner. So yeah, victory is way more than a long shot. Or would you really rather be Putin than Zelenskyy as it stands?
And Putin’s departure likely WOULDN’T change Russia’s geopolitical strategy towards Ukraine, Poland, Romania and the Baltics.
Forget about the tariffs — Trump is already backing down. This is waaay more important so don’t be bugging out on me.
Sorry, I'm more concerned about my own country's sovereignty right now.
Caddy,
And Putin’s departure likely WOULDN’T change Russia’s geopolitical strategy towards Ukraine, Poland, Romania and the Baltics.
Yeah, that's what I just implied in my [35].
I was hoping that you meant that.
Elizabeth Miller
35
If you insist on quoting people, then quote them in full: ...
If you will review the post you will easily note that I obviously did quote you in full in the first paragraph of my comment; I therefore felt no need whatsoever to post the entire quote again in the comment portion of my response.
Biden and his crack foreign policy team ignored the mediation efforts by Israel and Turkey to bring a swift end to this war in the spring of 2022 on terms that may yet turn out to have been more favourable to Ukraine than what may come now in any effort to bring this nonsensical war to an end.
Yes, I already definitely did quote that in its entirety in my post so at this point you are basically quoting me quoting you.
I reiterate again that it is wholly incorrect that "Biden and his crack foreign policy team ignored the mediation efforts" which I had quoted in its entirety in my comment and which you now seem to be quoting me quoting you (and not for the first time). Ukraine and NATO were given a laundry list of terms as mandated by Russia on multiple occasions, which they made public (which I have posted multiple times) and at no time did Russia promulgate or proffer a serious attempt at negotiation. No one ignored the nonserious attempts by Russia... far from it; it was a laughable list of demands that Ukraine and surrounding NATO countries substantially weaken so that Putin could easily roll through them at a date to be determined in the future since that is their modus operandi and has been so for centuries. It seems there is no written agreement Russia will honor, so much so that it's a mystery why they don't burst out laughing while the ink is drying on the documents.
Those are the right words - they're just in the wrong order.
Oh, really!? Do you need the term "and/or" explained to you? Or are you maybe under the mistaken impression that Vladimir Putin is going to live forever? You shouldn't discount the idea that Putin's successor might not have different plans for the future of Russia.
By which I mean a decisive military victory by Ukraine and its allies is highly unlikely, if not outright impossible.
I can definitely see why you might mistakenly underestimate Ukraine (and also not for the first time), but you're highly misinformed regarding military issues if you seriously believe it would be "highly unlikely, if not outright impossible" for Ukraine and its allies to win a decisive military victory. That is infinitely possible, however, not necessarily in your lifetime. Russia's troops as well as their military tactics and hardware have a reputation... and I would in no way characterize it as "good."
Russia doesn’t have either the economic wherewithal nor an unlimited number of willing cannon fodder to outlast Ukraine and the EU.
MtnCaddy
36
War or appeasement were the only two choices as Russian geopolitical history and both Putin’s words and deeds made it crystal clear that this escalation was always going to happen.
I don't understand why this absolute provable fact isn't crystal clear at this point. There was at no time whatsoever during any mediation wherein Russia attempted to promulgate or proffer a serious offer at any mediation/negotiation.
It was appeasement or escalation. Actually, scratch that: It was more like appeasement and delayed escalation should Ukraine and NATO have been nuts enough to have appeased Russia... which they were not (at that time, to be clear).
Trump, on the other hand, seems to seriously be under the mistaken (bordering on psychotic) delusion that Putin is (a) trustworthy and (b) his friend... which is light years beyond hysterical.
Caddy and Kick,
Do you two really believe that this war will end with the decisive military defeat of Russia?
Elizabeth Miller
47
Do you two really believe that this war will end with the decisive military defeat of Russia?
I'm going to answer your question with a question since I believe this might be a teachable moment:
You do realize that Adolf What's His Name and a bunch of nationalist fascists felt the same way about World War II, right?
Those daft pricks were high on their own supply and also had no idea what was in development. Enough said.
Let me know when the Ukrainian allied counteroffensive to rival Operation Overlord begins, okay? ;)
47
I keep answering this fucking question! Yes, this will end with Russia completely gone from the country called Ukraine. I wouldn’t say this if not for the state of the Russian economy — something that I cannot recall you once addressing!
You also didn’t address nor challenge anything from that five minute video. It’s like you ignore what I say and post, wait a couple weeks and then repeat Russian talking points as though you didn’t ever see anything that I’ve posted.
Why do you persist, Caddy, in treating me so poorly? Why don't you just move on and engage with people who are better informed and able to think for themselves and, therefore, converse with you in a more cogent fashion?
I have reached my breaking point with you, especially given the overall context we find ourselves in these chaotic days.